r9 wiz question

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  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    i'm pretty sure a r8+10 ea is at max interval if htey pvp. i'm not sure if you could just sit there and tank them even with jades
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    my point was being able to live through 1 stun is a huge advantage

    never said anything about tanking em
    Being able to take sustained damage for a length of time (the stun duration) isn't tanking?
    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »
    Look it up. They drop every day. The cost next to nothing on most servers. 3m? maybe 4m
    Like I said, I never see them in the ah, on WC, when I check peoples gear, etc. Endgame I only see demon's pearl, neck of giant strength, and cube necks.
    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »
    And as for +10, if "we're discussing r9" with unlimited funds, yes, +10 is a better comparison, and yes the G14 would refine better than g12. But then, if we are discussing r9 with unlimited funds, why are we talking about armor or weapon first.
    Honestly, follow the conversation, and stop trying to argue a point outside of its context.
    Have you seen the refine sales? You can +10 something for next to nothing nowadays. When somebody is raising money for r9, +10ing and orny seems like something minor in comparison.
    And I wasn't trying to argue a point out of context... I didn't even know anything about the necklace until somebody posted the link to it. I was just stating that when discussing the cost of r9, +10ing a necklace isn't that big of an investment.


    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »
    Um, scroll up: you said cube neck would give you all the pdef you need to tank archers
    Between kiting, well sharded armor, and genie skills? It is all the p def you'll need.
    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »
    And ps: archers can still hit you through expel - dey got da magic too, yo
    which barely even tickles...
    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »
    And expel vs archers?
    lol I'd never use expel against an archer, unless it was in SP and they were blue named so I could expel them. I just said I'd use expel for the sake of "tanking" the archer for a couple seconds and making a couple mill. You didn't say I had to beat the archer b:chuckle

    BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »
    I think your agreeing with me, but its hard to tell. You win here. I am speachless.
    I don't argue for the sake of arguing. I'm here to post information that's pertinent to our class or could be useful to other wizards. If you have a good point you have a good point, simple as.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Being able to take sustained damage for a length of time (the stun duration) isn't tanking?

    3-4 seconds is a sustained time now?

    stuns in pwi tend to last for considerably less than the dureation of a charm tick

    3-4 seconds in the archer example, If you die in that you were probably either 1 shoted or charm bypassed because even at the max bow attack rate under demon QS thats only stun + 3 attacks.

    At 10k phys def a rank 8 bow +10 with a full dex build and maxed rings/crit etc will have a roughly 50% crit chance under demon stun proc and roughly 13k average phys attack

    on average (with 10k phys def aka 72% redux) thats 9633k damage with no def levels self buffed (giveing the archer demon QS stun proc and a jones). Really Really painfull but with an average 15k pool counting charm on a full +10 armor rank 9 mage....you'll live. 12k damage if you stay long enough to seal (14 on a crit there) and then the archer either genis for its life or dies. So short of astounding luck yes tanking 1 stun with high end armor can and does work.

    VS anything rank 9 you die if it touches you w/o full +11-12 and JOSD's/gems so thats not really an arguement.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    my +6 r8 archer has 13k patk. i think you forgot to factor bow mastery
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    rank 8 bow +10

    VS

    a full +10 armor rank 9 mage

    really...?
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »
    my +6 r8 archer has 13k patk. i think you forgot to factor bow mastery

    average =/= max, and used demon mastery rank 8 + lunar ring with +20 attack max dex tt 99 ornies and garnet gems

    And this thread is about rank 9 armor vs rank 9 wep no? aaaand according to Killernator +10 is cheap and easy to get so by your logic yes its a viable comparison
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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Are you seriously arguing that the OP should go r9 +10 armor so that (s)he can tank r8 +10 bows...?

    When your armor outgears someone that bad of course you can tank a stun... the point is that there's no way a r8 +10 wiz could tank a r8 +10 archer's stun without some kind of genie/apoth assistance if they're equally geared.

    And if the archer is r9 +10? You're definitely not tanking the stun with your r9 +10 armor.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Are you seriously arguing that the OP should go r9 +10 armor so that (s)he can tank r8 +10 bows...?

    Nope I'm arguing that you kill LA and AA easily enough and you'll kill HA easier with spark than with a higher refined weapon thus survival > damage in terms of pvp against 7-8/10 classes in game (seekers are up to debate) simply because you can use your apos and geni more aggressively

    When your armor outgears someone that bad of course you can tank a stun... the point is that there's no way a r8 +10 wiz could tank a r8 +10 archer's stun without some kind of genie/apoth assistance if they're equally geared.

    10k hp and m def was the endgame when +10 was "omg amazing" g8/g9 shards were acceptable and lunar weapons were the rage. I used g 12 armor in my example at +10 with g 9 shards and g 14 ornies


    And if the archer is r9 +10? You're definitely not tanking the stun with your r9 +10 armor.

    For someone to be "overgeared" now they need full +11 vit/Josd/gemed armor g 16 ornaments and a +12 drakeflame/icebourne stoned weapon So I would call 50 def level 12k hp and 15k+ phys def on a mage "overgeared" these days. Unless purge procs a full rank 9 "overgeared" mage will live through 1 damn stun (unless purge procs then your boned, or if its a sin stunning you or if they shard full DOT's)

    Aside from lucky crit chains the above is true in both my experience and in the simple math of it.

    Again no, I dont expect anyone to sit and tank ANYTHING near their refinement level on a mage, however having the survivability to either save geni and apos for offensive purposes or live through an "oh shi" stun is more valuable than more damage if you already have enough to kill the oponent
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Nurfed_You - Harshlands
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    josh, your not a wizzie so i dont expect you to understand. its all about the astronomical one shot that all wizzies like to hit ppl for. more damage=pro
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Nurfed_You - Harshlands wrote: »
    josh, your not a wizzie so i dont expect you to understand. its all about the astronomical one shot that all wizzies like to hit ppl for. more damage=pro

    Am one now >.>
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    however having the survivability to either save geni and apos for offensive purposes or live through an "oh shi" stun is more valuable than more damage if you already have enough to kill the oponent

    Because using my genie for "offensive" purposes is better than fortifying the stunning arrow, gushing the archer, hitting them with FoW, and finishing them.

    Archers are squishy to begin with and EP/Frenzy hardly make any difference to me.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Because using my genie for "offensive" purposes is better than fortifying the stunning arrow, gushing the archer, hitting them with FoW, and finishing them.

    Archers are squishy to begin with and EP/Frenzy hardly make any difference to me.

    Or they could step back put on a mag def charm and be ok...

    Ijs math in a set time DPS scenario =/= forum PVP roleplay

    Or do archers pvp mages from non maxed range w/o charms w/o immunes w/o a range advantage and with a harem of +5 tt 99 venos?

    And really does some one saying "Hey living good" REALLY bother you that much?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Or they could step back put on a mag def charm and be ok...
    ...for 1 hit. But then their stunning arrow is still on CD and you have your own apoth/def charms until their stun is cooldowned.
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ijs math in a set time DPS scenario =/= forum PVP roleplay
    Says the person that posted a wall of text about his pw calc archer and how, based on the calc, a wiz could tank the stun...
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Or do archers pvp mages from non maxed range w/o charms w/o immunes w/o a range advantage and with a harem of +5 tt 99 venos?
    +5 tt 99 venos? Did I miss something?
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And really does some one saying "Hey living good" REALLY bother you that much?
    wut
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    ...for 1 hit. But then their stunning arrow is still on CD and you have your own apoth/def charms until their stun is cooldowned.

    And they have a fully cooled off geni and apo, antistun/damage imune skills, shell, an imoblize, and enough damage to make you stay the hell outa range till you know...they dont have 20 ways to block you? Ijs unless i missed something high end wiz vs mage pvp is about who can make who burn counters and stuns faster.

    Says the person that posted a wall of text about his pw calc archer and how, based on the calc, a wiz could tank the stun...

    Hmm? that was math based on a specific refine level on both characters provided from your comments in thread in a specific situation this =/= I CAST MAGIC MISSILE ON THE ARCHER AND IT DIES CAUSE I PRO

    +5 tt 99 venos? Did I miss something?

    Only the obvious

    wut

    Thats what I said
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