BH Abbadon "free wine" squads

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

I keep joining squads and when I ask the wine split someone says "Free wine". That's cool,right? Then they mention they get molds and books. I'm not talking about a tabbed run, just a plain BH.

This isn't free wine, it's trading wine fee for the drops. Many of you may remember a time when people made farming squads for books, offering free wine and 50-200k each person to farm an instance for molds or books. Anything from Cape of Tauran in BH69 up to books in BH89 and BH99. Now "free wine" means we are a farming squad that doesn't get paid?

90% of the reason I do BH Abaddon is for the book drops. Then after paying 30k to tele in and buffing the squad I ask what the split is, and they say "free, I get books and molds". When I tell them I'd rather pay they refuse to trade. My choice is find another squad and waste the 30k from stoning or do my BH with no chance of getting a book. To me, this is nothing more than scamming. "Free" wine means the winer has a chance at books worth 40+ mil. Granted books are rare but often 1 book can pay a profit on multiple runs with no book drop.

I have seen quite a few people quit squad over this. I always do, or offer to pay and if I get book I keep but if the other 5 get a book winer keeps. To me its a scam that they don't tell us, then refuse to trade. What does the rest of PWI think?

LadyofReal - Heavens Tear

Well, you can always politely ask everyone to change their broadcasts to "wined for drops" or just deal with it. If you want to farm for books make the wines yourself or offer to buy it at the end. BH100 wine rules are normally different from lower leveled BHs, you either adapt or wine it yourself.

Barber - Heavens Tear

the person that wined has always gotten the drops unless they say they dont want them

if they foot the bill for the wines they deserve the drops

simple remedy to this is ask when ya first get invited and before you port in...simple fix and no cost to you

Teiw - Sanctuary

I've seen this "I wined the instance but I get the drops" alot.

To me its a fair compromise. I don't have to spend 200k buying wines and trying to get money from people, nor do I have to pay 30-50k for a spot in the squad. Also, books and molds rarely drop when I'm in a squad, I'm bad luck >:3.

I do bounty hunts entirely to get the bh rewards, experience for my lower alts and mysterious chips for my lvl 100 alt.

If you don't like this new trend of people asking for books/molds in exchange for free wine, then you can buy wines yourself and world chat something like. " BH abbadon 40k per spot, whatever you get you keep"

I absolutely stink at getting money from people (had a few times people forgot their money or afked until it got wined anyways). So the free wine but I keep drops is fun for me.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Apart from the fact that the whole freaking world knows about this:

What do you get 'payd' for his uberlow chance of a book? You get your BH done for free

If you don't wanna do it this way, don't reply to 'free wine' squads. or just ask in advance

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Winer has not always gotten drops unless they tabbed also.

And alot of times I'll make my own squad and either offer free wine (random drops) or 30k each. Don't see how paying 200k for wine entitles you to 20 million coin books.

And I always ask in advance, most people avoid saying it until you've ported in, stood around for 15 minutes waiting for them to get there, and they've wined.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver

Dont like it then wine it yourself. I've never once seen a book drop in aba or sot. And ill gladly not pay, a 1% chance at anywhere from a 5 to 30 mil coin book isnt a good investment, when youre paying 200k a run that is.

Anelyn - Sanctuary

If they wanted something in return they should have never called it "free" in the WC. Tell them this and offer to pay your share of the wine.

They obviously are trying to pull a fast one if they wait till you are already inside to add an extra condition. If they were truly entitled to drops from "free" wine they would have never saw a need to say anything about it after you joined.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dont like it then wine it yourself. I've never once seen a book drop in aba or sot. And ill gladly not pay, a 1% chance at anywhere from a 5 to 30 mil coin book isnt a good investment, when youre paying 200k a run that is.

The chance is 10%

Geckofreak - Sanctuary

wines cost around 200k, books cost alot more, but books drop pretty rarely. i think its fine if someone will pay the wine cost for everyone and get books and molds(which are npc food nowadays). ive been doing for awhile now, and until today, have never gotten a book before.
if u dont want squad to be like that, you can always make your own squad like i do, or even make your own "free wine but drops to yourself" squad, but i agree, advertising free wine, but not saying drops to me, is unfair

ChiefZoltar - Heavens Tear

It really shouldn't matter to you. Since the only thing you're paying for is your tele in, you'll easily make that money back through DQ drops or other random gear. It's not like they're asking for everything, they just want what they're paying for.

If you paid for a BH Lunar run, all 3mil of it, would you want everyone to keep what they get? Not really.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

What game have you been playing?

"Free wine" means they get the drops 90% of the time. You seem to think you are wasting money teleporting, but are doing so with the expectation of a free lunch, as it were. That someone else is paying wine and letting you all keep random drops.

Solution is simple -

1)If in doubt, take 2 seconds to ask the squad leader, as this would be faster than rushing to a tele stone, paying, going in, and then asking.

2)Form your own 'free wine' BH's and keep drops random.

3)Form your own BH and charge for wine


These people are not scamming you. They are not even guaranteed to get anything good. They are offering full payment of the run, so you can get your BH for free (yes free, as you will be keeping DQ and gear drops to cover the uber-expensive tele fee/repairs), and they get a marginal chance at a good skill book or mold.
This has been a way of doing BH's...since BH's came out. Seriously man.......you are fully expecting a fully, free paid BH, and complain when it isn't?

Watch the WC's as to how squads are formed :

"Forming BH Abaddon, free wine" - this most commonly refers to the winers keeping the books/molds.

"Forming BH Abaddon, free wine/drops" - this is commonly specified because most people are aware of the above.

MageMERC - Harshlands

I love the free wine offer cause I've never seen anything drop in bh89 yet - admittedly I havent done that many. One run the payer get a wizzy book worth 50k if they were lucky.

Im also pretty sure I've seen another thread where calculations were done and the rarity of drops in bh89 means its more profitable to get those books through tokens and the boutique anyway.

Minimus_ - Sanctuary

I am good if for once I don't have to bother about the wine. I am even offering the winer molds/books/3* if he didn't say anything. If the squad prefers to pay wine it's also good. That's why it should be sorted before the bh starts.

Echelon - Heavens Tear

They wine for drops.......the chance of a GOOD drop actually happening is very slim. They person wining the instance for free is taking the gamble of getting nothing good at all. So why the hell complain when you get a free BH run? After all you do have a BH in there right???? So it's not like you're there just to help them get drops Right??? You're also there for your own reason as well, I see it as the person who wined would like to gamble to see if they get lucky on drops. Also I've never been in a Split wine Abba/SoT squad. I've either wined it myself for drops or someone else wines it. lol

Azura - Lost City

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now "free wine" means we are a farming squad that doesn't get paid?

Lol, so the bh reward doesn't count as a pay to you? That's why I prefer to solo bh, so I can avoid people like you b:laugh

Aedrian - Lost City

b:chuckle I did my fair share of free wined BH 10x a long time ago, before the book and mold rate was reduced, also, remember that the bosses there DO have a level (Like, 97 or something, too lazy to login and check) and with the 104s and 105s being rather common nowdays, they reduce the drop rate even more.

I am glad I got my Demon Stone Barrier and a couple of expensive veno books back then, but that is just me, I still buy the wines most of the time and do it just to get the slim chance of a book + avoid the severe pain in the *** of asking everyone for their monies and getting the "SL is on" answer.

That or I just do it with my friends.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

"Free wine" has been 3 stars/molds/whatever else is valuable goes to the winer for as long as i can remember. They are in essence buying the instance when they wine it, and allowing you to get your bh done for free. Since it's their instance, it's obviously going to be their drops.

"Free wine, free drops" means that the person doesn't expect the drops either.

"Free wine" just means that you don't have to pay a wine split.

That's been the terminology for a very long time. Heck, the winer getting the drops makes more sense than the tabber, since tabbers haven't done anything special to get those tabs and the rep is worth what like 10k? Whereas it's like 200k for wine. If you want the drops form your own free wine squad and keep the drops for yourself or only go in squads that advertize a fee for the wine. It's really that simple.

scarfaceclaw

Its pretty common practise for whomever wined the bh to get the good drops.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

My choice is find another squad and waste the 30k from stoning or do my BH with no chance of getting a book. To me, this is nothing more than scamming. "Free" wine means the winer has a chance at books worth 40+ mil. Granted books are rare but often 1 book can pay a profit on multiple runs with no book drop.

I have seen quite a few people quit squad over this. I always do, or offer to pay and if I get book I keep but if the other 5 get a book winer keeps. To me its a scam that they don't tell us, then refuse to trade. What does the rest of PWI think?

This is called gambling. Also, what books drop from Peachblossom that are worth 40m+?

I quoted this paragraph because I take exception to it. From the looks of things, you are decrying others for what you perceive to be greed but you wish to pay even less than the winer is paying with a chance at getting what you call "a chance at books worth 40+ mil". I hope other people noted here the double standard you're applying here to even complain about others doing this.

If you wanted a truly fair run, you would have an equal split, and if any book drops, sell it and the money would be split evenly amongst the squad. I don't see that in your post as an option. I call shenanigans.

This practice has been going on for quite some time, people understand that the person might get a book valued over 10m in coins (chances are substantially low during non-2x if they even get a book it's this much in value) and they are okay with that. Person incurs a cost of 200-350k and 90%+ won't get a book. The last several books I've seen have been sage focused mind which sold for 3m, demon drake's ray, which sold at 1m or less, and sage bubble of life which sold at 8m. I have to say by the odds of it, one should hope to get a book of insane value to offset the cost. If they were truly trying to offset and purely go on profit, they would set the squad to "Free" and demand to pick up every single drop from Mountain's Finger, Dracoboa, and Peachblossom.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Anelyn - Sanctuary wrote: »

If they wanted something in return they should have never called it "free" in the WC. Tell them this and offer to pay your share of the wine.

They obviously are trying to pull a fast one if they wait till you are already inside to add an extra condition. If they were truly entitled to drops from "free" wine they would have never saw a need to say anything about it after you joined.





The chance is 10%

I can guarantee that an archer or an archer in disguise *coughs* Decus *coughs* will prove to you its alot less then 10%. b:bye

Anelyn - Sanctuary

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can guarantee that an archer or an archer in disguise *coughs* Decus *coughs* will prove to you its alot less then 10%. b:bye

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/9181
Clearly says 10%

Most people don't know how to judge something with a 10% drop rate but it's not too hard. FB99 books can be made for 450 tokens which is 4.5m each. If there is a drop every 10 runs thats 2m worth of wine which is 60% cheaper.

If the arrangement wasn't something vastly in the winer's favor why would they be so willing to do it?

If you offer to pay your share of the wine then you should be allowed to keep your share of the drops. Fair is fair.

goreaver

if your doing bh for the exp free wine makes a quick run for you. so they can have there molds. i make more from mat farming any day. and if you don't like that simply wait on another squad to form. i wish pei would add a dungion finder so we could all find eatch other for fb bh runs quickly rather then being forced to spam chat. all there newer games have that system.

its not like they are holding a gun to your head unless of course your a Chinese prisoner gold farmer.

CapsunelSin - Lost City

Anelyn - Sanctuary wrote: »

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/9181
Clearly says 10%

Most people don't know how to judge something with a 10% drop rate but it's not too hard. FB99 books can be made for 450 tokens which is 4.5m each. If there is a drop every 10 runs thats 2m worth of wine which is 60% cheaper.

If the arrangement wasn't something vastly in the winer's favor why would they be so willing to do it?

If you offer to pay your share of the wine then you should be allowed to keep your share of the drops. Fair is fair.

where the hell is 10% i see 1.0417% no where close to this 10% u speak of

# Name %
1 ●Quickshot 1.0417% <---- see the 1%

Favu - Heavens Tear

Quit whining or wine yourself.

Good grief.

Anelyn - Sanctuary

CapsunelSin - Lost City wrote: »

where the hell is 10% i see 1.0417% no where close to this 10% u speak of

# Name %
1 ●Quickshot 1.0417% <---- see the 1%

All the books are not in the regular drop table. They are in the additional drop table.

Probability of additiolan items
10%

The additional drop table is not nerfed by higher levels in squad either.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

CapsunelSin - Lost City wrote: »

where the hell is 10% i see 1.0417% no where close to this 10% u speak of

# Name %
1 ●Quickshot 1.0417% <---- see the 1%

Silly fool, here you go:

Probability of additiolan items
1: 10.0000%

See? The books are in additional items.

The 1.0417% is the chance for individual books. Or, in effect, if you have a specific book in mind, there's a 0.10417% chance of getting it, or ~1/960.

As for the pricey books from Peachblossom, there's at least the following:
Demon Quickshot (25m)
Demon Amplify Damage (20m+)
Sage Amplify Damage (20m+)
Demon Aura of Golden Bell (25m+)
Sage Beast King's Inspiration (20m+)
Demon Stone Barrier (20m+)
Sage Revive (???)
Sage Ironheart Blessing (???)
Demon Ironheart Blessing (???)

Just from these, you have ~9/960 for 20-30m coins or ~1/110. Paying 30k per run for wine would amount to paying a silly 3-4m for these books, which are worth more than 5 times that.

So yeah, there's definitely a lot of double standard going on, both ways.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Just be a man and

RUN IT UNWINED YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is called gambling. Also, what books drop from Peachblossom that are worth 40m+?

I quoted this paragraph because I take exception to it. From the looks of things, you are decrying others for what you perceive to be greed but you wish to pay even less than the winer is paying with a chance at getting what you call "a chance at books worth 40+ mil". I hope other people noted here the double standard you're applying here to even complain about others doing this.

If you wanted a truly fair run, you would have an equal split,

How is offering to pay 1/6 for wine and have a 1/6 chance at drops a double standard? Winer pays 5/6 for wine and has a 5/6 chance at drops. But these winers refuse to accept coin trades because they know the odds are in their favor. That's why I call it unfair. They are basically using people to farm their instance under the guise of doing something nice. 200k for about a 1/12 chance of a book, or 33k for a 1/72 chance of a book (1/12 chance a book will drop 1/6 chance they'll get it). They stack the odds in their favor and act like its a nice thing to do, then refuse to accept trade because they know they're ripping you off.

People wine for books because they odds are in their favor. 96 books drop from Peachblossom with a real drop rate of 1%, but mutliplied by the additional item drop rate of about 10% (slightly less with higher levels) that is decent enough to be worth it. I farm it on my sin for books but use BHs on my other 4 lvl 100s as an opportunity to farm a book.

I have sold Demon Stone Barrier for 40 mil, btw, and many other books are in the 20-30 mil range. Welcome to PWI.

To me this is the equivilant of running with a TT squad and subber gets mats...

Btw, I usually do run with friends to avoid this but having 5 BHs, plus sometimes doing it more than that to help others means I join the occasional random squad. I do it unwined alot since wining removes less than half the mobs anyways. Had an unwined Aba a while ago where lead showed up 15 minutes later after I'd cleared unwined to boss before Peach. He complained about it being unwined and "hard" so he wined when the instance was almost cleared and called drops. This is the type of idiots that are doing this.

Mostly what I'm complaining about is the winers that don't give people the option to split wine fee. This isn't how its always been done and I hear the gooned up level 100s saying "this is how it's always been done". Maybe for the 3 months they've been lvl 100 but prior it was only for FBs. Not BHs.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

How is offering to pay 1/6 for wine and have a 1/6 chance at drops a double standard? Winer pays 5/6 for wine and has a 5/6 chance at drops. But these winers refuse to accept coin trades because they know the odds are in their favor. That's why I call it unfair. They are basically using people to farm their instance under the guise of doing something nice. 200k for about a 1/12 chance of a book, or 33k for a 1/72 chance of a book (1/12 chance a book will drop 1/6 chance they'll get it). They stack the odds in their favor and act like its a nice thing to do, then refuse to accept trade because they know they're ripping you off.

People wine for books because they odds are in their favor. 96 books drop from Peachblossom with a real drop rate of 1%, but mutliplied by the additional item drop rate of about 10% (slightly less with higher levels) that is decent enough to be worth it. I farm it on my sin for books but use BHs on my other 4 lvl 100s as an opportunity to farm a book.

I have sold Demon Stone Barrier for 40 mil, btw, and many other books are in the 20-30 mil range. Welcome to PWI.

To me this is the equivilant of running with a TT squad and subber gets mats...

Btw, I usually do run with friends to avoid this but having 5 BHs, plus sometimes doing it more than that to help others means I join the occasional random squad. I do it unwined alot since wining removes less than half the mobs anyways. Had an unwined Aba a while ago where lead showed up 15 minutes later after I'd cleared unwined to boss before Peach. He complained about it being unwined and "hard" so he wined when the instance was almost cleared and called drops. This is the type of idiots that are doing this.

Mostly what I'm complaining about is the winers that don't give people the option to split wine fee. This isn't how its always been done and I hear the gooned up level 100s saying "this is how it's always been done". Maybe for the 3 months they've been lvl 100 but prior it was only for FBs. Not BHs.

I see where you're coming from. Trust me, I do.

However, while you personally object to this, 99% of other people don't care. What I mean by this is it's not as if they don't understand or are oblivious to the fact that someone might profit 20-something million from specific books (despite damn low chances of getting those) just for them to go on a BH. It's that they a) don't want to run an unwined BH Abba, takes too much time, and b) don't want to gamble on paying for wining an instance where 9 out of 10 times they get nothing. People are more than happy to either wine it and take the gamble, or go without paying anything for wines.

Most of the time when I do BH there I do it with my wife on our characters. We fill up the squad with our own ppl, we wine it, wife sets it to free, picks up all the drops, NPC's them to get back wine cost and a little bit more. We pretty much never get a book (in the last, oh, 50'ish runs we've got one Sage Beastial Rage weeks ago which sells for **** nowadays). Since I have so many other level 100s, if I'm bored I'll do BH with random squads, and I accept their terms of wining it and wanting the drops. In the last several weeks, I haven't seen a single book drop to anyone. I've seen a few Cape of Elite Leather's, and some crappy molds from Peachblossom -- that's it. So by this logic, they are paying for our run and not getting anything in return other than some random stuff to NPC. I kinda think you should start worrying when someone sets the squad to Free and demands to pick up all the drops.

LadyAshlie - Heavens Tear

If your not happy with the whole situation, then buy wines, buy a few teles, and use wc for a squad.

If your not happy with not being able to pay a split, then nicely say your goodbye and find a new squad or form your own squad.

Whenever i do BH100, i'm mainly there for completing my bh, and not for books. If i wanted the books, i would've just wc and wine it and get 100% of any good drops.

Anyhow, now the term "free wine" 99.99% of the time refers to the person offering to spend money to get the wine and then wine the instance for the squad's bh in exchange for them leaving the 3*, molds, books drops to them. The term "xx-split, wine-split" 100% refers to every splitting and whoever gets what, they get to keep them. "my wines, my drops" is pretty self-explanatory, while "free wines/drops or free wines, free drops, free wines, random drops" etc pretty much means the other 5 in the squad are lucky to find some a kind hearted person.

If you are doing bh with friends, and have other toons to do it too, why not make new friends on those and you can run it with your wine-split idea or something. In addition, I really dont see the problem in you buying wines and advertising for a squad. Unless its because you are too lazy to actually do that and simply want to piggyback on someone who is advertising for a squad and "offer" to pay them a split for them buying wines etc to have a shot at getting good drops. Kinda makes me think that you want to have a share of the benfits without putting in any of the effort.

Ooh and another thing....wine split at bh100 is like............b:embarrass
Just thought you knew that~

Kitsune_Mai - Dreamweaver

The wining deals have been around as far as I know, and for the most part, seem pretty fair.

However, there are some people taking it a step further, and IMO is going too far. Same deal as always, that is "My wine, my drops", EXCEPT they litereally mean ALL drops. Like that little white 1star neck piece drop off that regular mob leftover from the wining? Yep, that too. Only thing you get is a bit of the shared coin that they can;t stop people from getting, not even enough to cover your repair bills if you are unfortunate enough to take a hit.

SO, under normal circumstances, I have no problems with the normal wining, as it save me my coin for other purposes, but all drops? Yeesh.....