R8 vs G13 vs R9 vs G15 vs Hitman!!

HellWariorB - Raging Tide

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Just look at the ranking according to unsparked DPS.

Yes i did and the difference is minimum. You and Empu are one of the few Sins i know on the forum who know what they are doing and i wanted to ask for your opinion for an endgame sin weapon (i will not buy R9 for him) R8 daggers +10 and Pan Gu or Nirvana 2 soc +10. As far as assasin weapons i am still nub so i need some help decide. Empu advised me for R8 +10 and Pan Gu so what do u say?b:thanks

HellWariorB - Raging Tide

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

For some it's just impossible that 2.86 aps can outdamage 5 aps b:laugh

I payed a friends R9 +10 demon sin he does more dmg unsparked then my +10 5 aps barb b:sad

b:shocked sry for double post

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Just look at the ranking according to unsparked DPS.

Since the only real thing to change is the aps it'd be easier just to multiply by the difference.
For instance, the demon base of 5.0 is 3.33.

3.33/5 =.666

So if you are sage, times the final dps by .666
2.86 instead of 4.0 is .715... Easy to figure out. The other difference is permasparking on a sage sin isn't always possible so you can't calculate dps straight across because they may have to use skills, windshield, or attack unsparked for a while.

Okeano - Harshlands

HellWariorB - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes i did and the difference is minimum. You and Empu are one of the few Sins i know on the forum who know what they are doing and i wanted to ask for your opinion for an endgame sin weapon (i will not buy R9 for him) R8 daggers +10 and Pan Gu or Nirvana 2 soc +10. As far as assasin weapons i am still nub so i need some help decide. Empu advised me for R8 +10 and Pan Gu so what do u say?b:thanks

Using OP's build on calc, R8+10 with tome vs G13+10 w/o tome, R8 wins by 2.2%. If you replace the R9 ring, the advantage probably turns to 2.5%. (I used 2 G11 shards, which favors the G13 in the comparison since it's more likely they'll have one socket)

When you compare the cost, Nirvana dags are around 120 mil, and I don't really know the current price of tome since more frags are flooding the market due to this... new Delta thingy.

This is, of course, assume that you are going full interval build. If you are building for DPH in PvP, R8 with tome easily win. If it's DPS build, I would personally go with G13 if you are not considering G15 or R9. It's behind in DPS slightly, but it leaves room for improvement where you can farm for the tome later and achieve 4.0, or 5.0 with Windshield to time it with Heaven's Flame.

HellWariorB - Raging Tide

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

Using' OP's build on calc, R8+10 with tome vs G13+10 w/o tome, R8 wins by 2.2%. If you replace the R9 ring, the advantage probably turns to 2.5%.

When you compare the cost, Nirvana dags are around 120 mil, and I don't really know the current price of tome since more frags are flooding the market due to this... new Delta thingy.

This is, of course, assume that you are going full interval build. If you are building for DPH in PvP, R8 with tome easily win. If it's DPS build, I would personally go with G13 if you are not considering G15 or R9. It's behind in DPS slightly, but it leaves room for improvement where you can farm for the tome later and achieve 4.0, or 5.0 with Windshield to time it with Heaven's Flame.

Ty for the info i will probably do that (still considering Empu suggestion) and tome on RT is around 280m. I am almost half way there farming cannies and i will be helped by the guild if i go G13. And how are daggers so cheap they are around 250m.

Okeano - Harshlands

My bad, yeah around 250. I'm not sure why I was thinking about 100 raps costing 1 mil each.

Empu - Sanctuary

HellWariorB - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes i did and the difference is minimum. You and Empu are one of the few Sins i know on the forum who know what they are doing and i wanted to ask for your opinion for an endgame sin weapon (i will not buy R9 for him) R8 daggers +10 and Pan Gu or Nirvana 2 soc +10. As far as assasin weapons i am still nub so i need some help decide. Empu advised me for R8 +10 and Pan Gu so what do u say?b:thanks

Also take into account _Skai_'s, Sakubatou's and Olbaze's opinions. Skai is not sage, but I think her (or his, never know) comments might help you decide. Saku and Olba are a bit math addicts, but I know them ingame and both got experience with sage sins (and know how to play).

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good luck with that. I (along with others ofc) tried to educate the comunity that demon is not the only good culti for a sin. Now that sage sins are pretty much recognised (and I hope I played a tiny part in that myself b:cute ), I went on an anti-aps crusade. I systematically refuse any squad asking my aps, telling them I won't vana with ppl that prefer my crappy -30% requirement fists over r9 +12 daggers.

I still think its valid to ask for aps, but I also ask for a weapons link. You got it right that dps isn't all about aps, but it is a combo of aps and dph which is why I want to see both if picking a random squad. I'd take a 2.86 with refined rank 8's over all the 5.0 G13's refined +3. People, if you spend 250 mil on a weapon, spend a few mirages and some coin to refine it up a bit. Of course, friends are always welcome.

And I know you like to prove sage's validity, as well as the power of dph, but you can't really use the most powerful weapon (second most? considering Warsoul) on the most powerful class and attribute it all to your culti. 2.86 or not, sage or demon, it's going to be pretty insane dd. There has also been threads disproving sage's having better dph when auto attacking, and on some skills (depends what skill). Even demon mastery becomes more powerful with G15 and Rank 9 weapons because sage's +15% weapon mastery becomes less than the 2% crit demons get.

Btw, I keep wanting to throw this analogy out there but think its a bit too nerdy for most people, but since this is a math thread... One word problem in middle school math was you had so much fencing (lets say 36 meters) and you had to maximize the area inside of it. Now, you can make a 1x 34 pen, or a 2 x 16. You just had to figure out the shape that gave the most area (its a circle but we're assuming square corners). Anyways, the answer is a square 9 x 9. area= l x w and you got the most area when l matched w. Same with dps = aps x dph. You get the most dps when you maximize both. Some people go G13 for alot of aps and crappy dph. Some people prefer to skill alot and drop bombs for higher dph but slower aps. The best dps is a balance of both.

HellWariorB - Raging Tide wrote: »

i wanted to ask for your opinion for an endgame sin weapon (i will not buy R9 for him) R8 daggers +10 and Pan Gu or Nirvana 2 soc +10. As far as assasin weapons i am still nub so i need some help decide. Empu advised me for R8 +10 and Pan Gu so what do u say?b:thanks

This threads main point is proving the userfulness of rank 8, especially with a tome. Rank 8 + tome will cost you about the same as G13's. You are not guarenteed (10% chance) a second socket on your G13s and so rank 8 with 2 sockets and a tome is almost the exact same dps as a 1 socket G13, but you get a tome. As an endgame weapon, G13 would be preferred for pve by a bit just to get into squads and to gain chi quicker but for pve the dph of rank 8 will probably treat you better.

HellWariorB - Raging Tide wrote: »

I payed a friends R9 +10 demon sin he does more dmg unsparked then my +10 5 aps barb b:sad

b:shocked sry for double post

Daggers have about 12% higher base damage than fists/claws. Most claw barbs aren't pure strength either, I'm guessing you have just over 300 strength and he probably has around 500 dex, so he has about 1.3 weapon dmg multipliers more than you from that. You probably have about 25% crit rate he probably has about 45% crit rate. He has Wolf Emblem for 120% crits he can use half the time. His daggers have GoF for 30% more zerks. Combine that with crits and 240% rage dmg and some of his hits are going to have 500% spark dmg x 120% rage dmg x 100% crit dmg and then get doubled again by GoF. He has 30 attack levels. He has 75% dagger mastery, you have 60% poison fang (assuming you have demon). You might be the only one with your Titans buff so there's another 40% weapon dmg in your favor, but if he had it it'd help him more since his weapon has a higher base dmg.

Let's assume he didn't use Power Dash to have 80-90% crit rates, or frenzy, or subsea or any other genie skills. You'd be lucky if your +10 5 aps barb does half amount of dps he does, lol. Nope, sins aren't overpower lol.

HellWariorB - Raging Tide

@ Sakubatou i like math threads

What i meant is that he does more dmg unsparked the me sparked b:sad and i have all demon buffs. And yes that is what i want now a balance between both dph and aps (i already have a aps barb want to try something different). And for nirvana squads i have my R9 friend to squad so no more random aps squad and have some good aps friends to squad with so i want to try something different with my sin and not go aps like the most sins now days and asp is a little irrelevant for sage.

These kind of threads is what forum needs. Simple, clean no BS and drama just facts and numbers.
b:victory

Traz - Dreamweaver

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Even if you dont go G15, why just use G13 dags when you can get a tome and dags for same price and virtually same dps. And IF you ever do decide to upgrade you already have the tome purchased. Rank 9 out DDs G15 99% of the time. And the cost is the same, slightly cheaper if you just want G15 with decent adds, but it will get out DDd by rank 9 if you dont aim for god like stats.


Its close to 900 mil to buy both Rank 9 ring and weapon. Its 600-700 mil on average to get G15 with decent adds. And Rank 9 out DDs those kinds of G15 dags by a lot. It takes perfect G15s to out DD R9..... As long as you have the tome. Which if you went R8 and not G13 you would already have, for same price as G13. If you have G13, no tome, and want to switch to rank 9 then the cost is a lot more, but that's why I'm saying G13 is a waste of money.

Because it's much easier psychologically to see the raptures pile up (and turn uncanny into raptures too) then to straight save up 125m for a script, then another 125m for a script, and another 125m. Another thing to look at is the r8 is a dead end weapon. If you +10 it... you will be destined to replace it and waste it. G13s you can put to +7 with tisha help and ride that out until you have more raptures and your tome.

Like I said in other posts not everyone's build is able to handle r9 GoF. I couldn't handle goF with current gear but I could probably manage a G15 SS -int weapon because I have to much HP (yeah awkward saying that O.o). I'd rather get G15s (lunar) -> upgrade armor to DoT +10 -> get r9. The G15s would then go to my wife's sin to use and also share with sage sin on another account so they wouldn't be wasted.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've seen less than a handful of G15 Nirvanas. I've seen a few dozen handfuls of +10 G13 Nirvanas sharded with Garnet Gems.

Then again, if you're talking about actual endgame, then you'll have to ignore the cost of the ring, since it is the best ring in the game and you'll be getting it whether you get the dagger or not. Kinda like how R8 dagger does not cost 72 Gold and 2m coins just because Rank 8 costs 72 Gold.

I can think of probably 10 pairs of G15s on dreamweaver and even more r9 (12-15 ish). If we're truely talking actual endgame we would ignore the cost of the tome and r8 and G13 costs too.... because we would all have that already and would only be talking about weapon. b:shutup

Kidding aside I got your point, but I'd rather save up for G15 weapon before I would get the ring (I have r9 ring already fyi >_>)

Empu - Sanctuary

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I still think its valid to ask for aps, but I also ask for a weapons link. You got it right that dps isn't all about aps, but it is a combo of aps and dph which is why I want to see both if picking a random squad. I'd take a 2.86 with refined rank 8's over all the 5.0 G13's refined +3. People, if you spend 250 mil on a weapon, spend a few mirages and some coin to refine it up a bit. Of course, friends are always welcome.

And I know you like to prove sage's validity, as well as the power of dph, but you can't really use the most powerful weapon (second most? considering Warsoul) on the most powerful class and attribute it all to your culti. 2.86 or not, sage or demon, it's going to be pretty insane dd. There has also been threads disproving sage's having better dph when auto attacking, and on some skills (depends what skill). Even demon mastery becomes more powerful with G15 and Rank 9 weapons because sage's +15% weapon mastery becomes less than the 2% crit demons get.

Even with your methode, you'd still be likely to run into those 4 aps r9 sins on our server, that spend most vanas hugging the ground (I know 2 of them). Maybe an idea to do some damage and survivability tests on bosses before accepting someone in a vana squad? The problem is, imo, aps is overrated and seen as the one and only gage of "quality". I've not always been a sin with r9 weapon, and I believe the validity of someones build depends on a multitude of factors, including mainly what someone wants to do, their dps and their survivability. Today, ppl only look for dps, and mainly dps in the form of aps to the point they even forget they ask aps because it should result in higher dps.

This brings to the major flaws of math : everything is put out of a context to be turned into pure figures that focus on 1 objective. Since 99% of the math presented on these forums is so turned away from the game, it has, at least imo, no value at all. The threads about dph and sage being the best example of that. All math here implies that we all look to maximise our dps, however I can base on my own example that that is not the case. My sin with same armor but demon would be higher dps ofc, but I couldn't solo even half of what I can now. And not having sage chill + subsea + sage rift + sage dagger devotion + sage survivability adds (spark/tidal) would make doing a whole exp room slower cause I wouldn't be able to kill everything with subsea+rift. Still some would come up with the basic math with %'s and auto-attacks that are totally irrelevant. In same trend, I would still like to see someone factor in the extra 16% chance to avoid seals in a sage/demon dps comparison, or the extra dps from +2m range (especially on a boss that moves) in a "perfect g15"/r9 comparison.

Most, even like in your r8 vs G13 thread, start of with the figures that should always come last imo. When making a build for some class, first thing to wonder should be : what do I want to do?, then you can adjust your survivability to that, and only then you can search to maximise your damage. Same way, those dph sage threads throw in some figures about dps, while you should wonder first what sage and demon can add to a dph build : in which case you will see why sage becomes so obvious.

PS : Maybe it's because I'm more in financial math and businiss evaluation then "science" math, that makes that I consider a context more important then the figures that are easy to present as you like.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Even with your methode, you'd still be likely to run into those 4 aps r9 sins on our server, that spend most vanas hugging the ground (I know 2 of them). Maybe an idea to do some damage and survivability tests on bosses before accepting someone in a vana squad? The problem is, imo, aps is overrated and seen as the one and only gage of "quality". I've not always been a sin with r9 weapon, and I believe the validity of someones build depends on a multitude of factors, including mainly what someone wants to do, their dps and their survivability. Today, ppl only look for dps, and mainly dps in the form of aps to the point they even forget they ask aps because it should result in higher dps.

This brings to the major flaws of math : everything is put out of a context to be turned into pure figures that focus on 1 objective. Since 99% of the math presented on these forums is so turned away from the game, it has, at least imo, no value at all. The threads about dph and sage being the best example of that. All math here implies that we all look to maximise our dps, however I can base on my own example that that is not the case. My sin with same armor but demon would be higher dps ofc, but I couldn't solo even half of what I can now. And not having sage chill + subsea + sage rift + sage dagger devotion + sage survivability adds (spark/tidal) would make doing a whole exp room slower cause I wouldn't be able to kill everything with subsea+rift. Still some would come up with the basic math with %'s and auto-attacks that are totally irrelevant. In same trend, I would still like to see someone factor in the extra 16% chance to avoid seals in a sage/demon dps comparison, or the extra dps from +2m range (especially on a boss that moves) in a "perfect g15"/r9 comparison.

Most, even like in your r8 vs G13 thread, start of with the figures that should always come last imo. When making a build for some class, first thing to wonder should be : what do I want to do?, then you can adjust your survivability to that, and only then you can search to maximise your damage. Same way, those dph sage threads throw in some figures about dps, while you should wonder first what sage and demon can add to a dph build : in which case you will see why sage becomes so obvious.

PS : Maybe it's because I'm more in financial math and businiss evaluation then "science" math, that makes that I consider a context more important then the figures that are easy to present as you like.

I brought up most of those points in a thread about a month ago called "dark death thorn vs r9" or something to that effect. A r9 sin that's using HA leggings from their other toon or using forest wisdom and vit stones probably wont even out DD a G15 with only SS -int that's DoT / pure dex. I had someone say to me in the thread, "No, we have a GoF / -int / max atk sin on our server and he couldn't hold aggro over a r9 sin." I told them thank you for giving me 0 context of either sin. I have no information on either of their builds, what shards they use, or how much dex they both have.... you give me no context to really back up anything.

I also brought up who knows how big a factor 1 more aps is (staying 5.0 instead of nerfing to 4.0 with r9 even though it's more damage) for minister boss or something. Sadly straight statistical analysis of DPS isn't enough if you really put yourself through all the variables of a boss fight or the variables of your build (my GoF procs take more hp then a DoT sin for instance).

PS I'm a demon sin and I tank the whole big room in FC that hurt my feelings QQ b:sad

Empu - Sanctuary

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

PS I'm a demon sin and I tank the whole big room in FC that hurt my feelings QQ b:sad

Not talking about being able to do it or not, but about being able to kill all mobs with subsea + rift, which I don't think is possible because before I had sage subsea some would still survive. This example was just to show how irrelevant it is to say "sage rift only ads x% more damage" or "sage chill would only result in x% more damage", because it totally neglects where and when dph is usefull. With only 2 aoe skills, not being able to kill with those 2 would make you poke mobs 1 by 1 or wait for cd, and thus slower.

Well this is kinda off-topic, because for someone who never fcc/tm/aoe tt mobs, this is irrelevant. My main point is, pure figures look scientific and get a lot of credibility, but are for most part just intellectual masturbation (I wonder if this is censured) with no use. Math should always come last, unless you're soloing TT in an excel worksheet.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Empu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not talking about being able to do it or not, but about being able to kill all mobs with subsea + rift, which I don't think is possible because before I had sage subsea some would still survive. This example was just to show how irrelevant it is to say "sage rift only ads x% more damage" or "sage chill would only result in x% more damage", because it totally neglects where and when dph is usefull. With only 2 aoe skills, not being able to kill with those 2 would make you poke mobs 1 by 1 or wait for cd, and thus slower.

Well this is kinda off-topic, because for someone who never fcc/tm/aoe tt mobs, this is irrelevant. My main point is, pure figures look scientific and get a lot of credibility, but are for most part just intellectual masturbation (I wonder if this is censured) with no use. Math should always come last, unless you're soloing TT in an excel worksheet.

With r9 daggers i'd 2 shot them the same probably one shot them with a proc lol. At this point with G13 I subsea + rift with my chill on and i kill about half run around until rift is back and that takes care of the rest, so you're talking about an extra 6-7 seconds.

PS I wish I could TT in excel, it has macros I can set up ijs b:laugh

HellWariorB - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

This threads main point is proving the userfulness of rank 8, especially with a tome. Rank 8 + tome will cost you about the same as G13's. You are not guarenteed (10% chance) a second socket on your G13s and so rank 8 with 2 sockets and a tome is almost the exact same dps as a 1 socket G13, but you get a tome. As an endgame weapon, G13 would be preferred for pve by a bit just to get into squads and to gain chi quicker but for pve the dph of rank 8 will probably treat you better.

I think that these made up my mind. I still have few lvls to decide but i think the R8 + tome wins. I will probably have these build:
http://pwcalc.com/8dbb613798dba1b1
(still need to make the necklace but is easy farmable)

Razorburn - Dreamweaver

One other thing that you are missing about the g13 daggers an their speed is that they offer far more flexibility. With g13
1. you could use pimped out necklace and belt and still be 5.0.
or
2. you could go rank 9 boots an nirvana 2nd cast arms an still be 5.0

Both of these build offer significant advantages. With either option high refines an mixtures of dot/vit stones you can get both the life an attack levels to pretty much even out, just no sac strike for pvp:( but for farming it adds defense an life.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

Razorburn - Dreamweaver wrote: »

One other thing that you are missing about the g13 daggers an their speed is that they offer far more flexibility. With g13
1. you could use pimped out necklace and belt and still be 5.0.
or
2. you could go rank 9 boots an nirvana 2nd cast arms an still be 5.0

Both of these build offer significant advantages. With either option high refines an mixtures of dot/vit stones you can get both the life an attack levels to pretty much even out, just no sac strike for pvp:( but for farming it adds defense an life.

All this is showing is which one has more raw dps.

FiveAps - Dreamweaver

ok, so what I was thinking of as being the cheapest way of making a farm build on my way to R9:

I have two options:

Main:
1. http://pwcalc.com/f43c5517ba442b26

Alternative:
2. http://pwcalc.com/7888f3ea7a4ff56a


Reasons behind the build above
- I have all the gear from my 5 aps BM , except R8 ofc and nirv pants, and for refine I already have everything set aside.
- getting Nirvy daggers I dunno if it's worth over 4 aps R8 cost wise ... I mean the dps isn't much. Truth is I could have better stats with a Cube Neck and Warsong Belt ( see build 2).
- whatever I can farm with a Barrier Thorn and 5 aps I can do it with this one too. Maybe not at the same speed, but I mean, 4aps...5 aps...there is quite a big gain on crit (4% + some base dmg) so it's not like a clear cut 25% dps increase.
- true , throwing + 10 refines on R8 is a waste since is a dead end weapon. But I'm not going to get rank9 tomorrow (if ever).
- I can always use my neck/belt and drop down to 3.33 aps with a **** ton more HP and some extra pdef/mdef

I'm actually having some problems deciding if it's worth investing 100 raps(200+ mil) + some extra **** in Nirvy daggers or just investing 120 mil in recasting the leggings to G15, where I get -int + extra 4% defenses - right?

Any good tips w/ reasoning behind them are welcome!

cheers!

PS: I dunno if I do the math right, u guys maybe wanna redo if bored, but I got it like this:
dps = (dmg + dmg*crit /100) *aps

build 1 got roughly 102k dps
build 2 got roughly 102k dps. ...

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

PS: I dunno if I do the math right, u guys maybe wanna redo if bored, but I got it like this:
dps = (dmg + dmg*crit /100) *aps

The taking into consideration base damage, crit, wolf emblem, and weapon proc rates, the formulas you want are:

DPH = ((min_dmg + max_dmg) / 2) * (1 + W*C/100) * (1 + P/100)
DPS = APS * DPH

where
W = modifier for wolf emblem (1.2 for sage; for demon, if you can keep wolf emblem active on every cooldown, you use the formula twice with 1 and 1.4 and average the two results, if you can not or want to discount wolf emblem, just use 1)
C = crit rate
P = proc rate (30 for God of Frenzy/Sacrificial Strike; 0 for R8/G13)

FiveAps - Dreamweaver

thanks, for the complete formula btw, but for this comparison I limited myself to just pure dmg output. There was no reason for me to get in skills there, because well, I can use those with both builds.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Reasons behind the build above
- I have all the gear from my 5 aps BM , except R8 ofc and nirv pants, and for refine I already have everything set aside.
- getting Nirvy daggers I dunno if it's worth over 4 aps R8 cost wise ... I mean the dps isn't much. Truth is I could have better stats with a Cube Neck and Warsong Belt ( see build 2).
- whatever I can farm with a Barrier Thorn and 5 aps I can do it with this one too. Maybe not at the same speed, but I mean, 4aps...5 aps...there is quite a big gain on crit (4% + some base dmg) so it's not like a clear cut 25% dps increase.
- true , throwing + 10 refines on R8 is a waste since is a dead end weapon. But I'm not going to get rank9 tomorrow (if ever).
- I can always use my neck/belt and drop down to 3.33 aps with a **** ton more HP and some extra pdef/mdef

Um, your second build has Chill of the Deep on with spark. You can't permaspark with 2.0 aps.

With that said, the first build wins by having ~23% more DPS.

I'm actually having some problems deciding if it's worth investing 100 raps(200+ mil) + some extra **** in Nirvy daggers or just investing 120 mil in recasting the leggings to G15, where I get -int + extra 4% defenses - right?

Personally, I'd always choose armor before weapon. As a sin, you'll already have much higher DPS than any other class, but you'll be lacking in defenses and life in comparison to HA characters such as BMs and Barbs.

FiveAps - Dreamweaver

oh, that CoD was mistake , take that out

Olbaze - Sanctuary

FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

oh, that CoD was mistake , take that out

Even with that, the R8 build wins in terms of DPS. This is because the way you set it up, both of them have the same APS. So it comes down to crit% and DPH, in which regard Rank 8 is superior to Barrier Thorn: Nirvana.

Of course, the Barrier Thorn: Nirvana build has more life and defenses. However, the cost for those is rather high. If you take into account the costs for Barrier Thorn: NIrvana and the ornaments, you actually end up with the Rank 8 build having more life, because the cost for the Barrier Thorn: Nirvana alone allows for you to have +10 on the Nirvana leggings and the G13 helmet.

In fact, if you plan well enough, you end up with the Rank 8 build being superior in every single regard, if you assume the costs would be equal.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

oh, that CoD was mistake , take that out

Why you the antonym to my name ._.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why you the antonym to my name ._.

Don't get too close, you might destroy the universe.

Then I'll have to bitchslap you both.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

FiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

oh, that CoD was mistake , take that out

I thought of a funny make believe convo.

Guy: Hey what up wanna nirv.
FiveAps: Sure lets go im 5 aps.
ImNotFiveAps: So am I, im also 5 aps.
Guy: No youre not FiveAps is right there.
FiveAps: Yeah, Im right here. <
ImNotFiveAps: I am too 5 aps!
Guy: No, your name even says you're not, and FiveAps is clearly standing right there. So you're a liar either way. And we don't take liars on nirv! >:\
FiveAps: b:bye
ImNotFiveAps: Q.QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

People arent understaning this yet so bump for good cause.

Barunaa - Heavens Tear

what about the DPS of the chinese recasted r8 daggers being recasted with GoF and -int? some ppl are saying it will be 2nd only to recasted rank 9. anyone compared dps for that? (didnt read entire thread)

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

Barunaa - Heavens Tear wrote: »

what about the DPS of the chinese recasted r8 daggers being recasted with GoF and -int? some ppl are saying it will be 2nd only to recasted rank 9. anyone compared dps for that? (didnt read entire thread)

Why the hell would I?

That prob wont reach this version for years, if ever.

Barunaa - Heavens Tear

cuz apprently it will be patched with EG rank 9 and its apart of the "new content" that is SUPPOSE to be added in "the following weeks of the anniversary". but then again frankie isnt a good source of information.