Am i a fail?

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

Oh look it's pedo doing personal attacks. How original!





No one needs to be that damned poor in this game. If they're poor it's because they're skimming their way through rather than playing. Instead of equips: they spend on xp. Then the more xp they get; the more they fall behind on equips. In order to get by: they have to mooch off other players who are diligent, or do they stay out of squads altogether?

-The true stupid idiot of pwi forums is JanusZeal.

Personal attacks are bad netiquette, and we all know how much you care about netiquette.

/inb4lock

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Personal attacks are bad netiquette, and we all know how much you care about netiquette.

/inb4lock

We have a winner. b:cute

Decus - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We have a winner. b:cute

Eh, look at most of his posts. He always resorts to insults at one point or another.

Aeyisha - Lost City

thumbs wrote: »

Tweakz has 2 pairs of boots she uses: both +5; shirt is +8; robes are +5&7; Belts +3&5; Neck +3; ring +4 ; hat +5.

What happened to your +10 stuff? Or was that only your wep...

What you do with your toon should determine if you need better gear. Vit shouldn't play a part.


No mage should stat vit, unless you wanna be one of those venos begging others to heal their pet for them, maintain the falsehood that venos aren't DD's, want to progress slower in the game, burn pots for myriads, etc.

I can heal my pet fine for bosses. How do you think that vit builds progress slower in the game? They can't level as fast because they can't kill as many mobs as a pure magic in a certain amount of time? Hello, we have frost.

thumbs

Aeyisha - Lost City wrote: »

I can heal my pet fine for bosses.

Xenospace Drake?

How do you think that vit builds progress slower in the game?

Even if they mooch: they still slow their squad down which slows them down.

They can't level as fast because they can't kill as many mobs as a pure magic in a certain amount of time? Hello, we have frost.

(mooch)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Who the hell ever does Xenospace Drake anyways besides you?

As for the mooching thing, I love how pertaining to FF you can't describe how the cleric mooches in what regards and how this would slow down a squad. A cleric runs through the instance, does some BB, does some chromatic, purify.. but other than that, the only time one will ever notice someone is a vit build cleric is if they have so much vit their heals suck. I've seen clerics have so much vit that their BB heals got people killed at Holeen. These are as much an extreme example as tweakz' absurd love for Xenospace Drake.

The whole reason for vit is survivability, and unfortunately tweakz really has no argument about survivability and why some clerics need it, he just likes to assert and re-assert things with little explanation as if saying it ten times it going to make it even more true than the first.

Eoria - Harshlands

tweakz cares way too much about PVE.

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Ok. I've read, and kept hearing that vitality builds are fail, and mooches. I commented earlier, but I do want to add a few more cents to this topic.

Granted, some people DO stat TOO MUCH vitality into their clerics, and cause their class to suffer. This is true of any class. Yet, what I want to point out is that when clerics especially do this, and their magic potential is not enough to heal the tank, or do the job that they are required to do as a cleric, they will be kicked. If they're kicked, they're not mooching. Others stat a reasonable amount of vitality into their clerics. If their heals are strong enough to do the job, then they aren't mooching either. They're an invaluable member of that team. If a person if pure magic, and heals their team, and they can do the job, they also are not mooching. They are doing the job that is required of them as a cleric.

Conversely however, if a cleric is pure arcane, and heals with nothing but blessing of the purehearted, does not purify, does not buff, and has certain key skills unleveled then that person is going to fail at the job that is required of them as a cleric. If a person is does stat their cleric with some points in vitality, heals with ironheart, uses SOR when need be, purifies, buffs, and uses their skills wisely, then they are going to succeed at the job of being a cleric, and spare their party a lot of grief, and trouble.

In the end, a clerics usefulness depends not on stats, but rather in the ability to use their skills wisely to get the job done, just like a barbs usefulness lies not in only hp, but in their usefulness to get the job done. Stats alone don't define a good cleric. We all have different playstyles, and different builds for them. If we can still get the job done that is required of us, then none of us are mooches...ranging from my cleric to your cleric, to everyone that has posted in this forums cleric. We all play in different ways. This true of everyone since, behind the screem, we are all unique and different individuals...each with our own mindset, and modality of playing. We even get different gear, different shards, and level different skills at different times. Yet if we can get the job done, then we have succeeded in our class, and our in game job of being a cleric.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Seems like they just put more in vit than you did, that's no problem. Just make sure your equipment can make up for this later, if you plan on keeping a low vit.

wooo >.>
what he said.
looks like your (OP) concerned about survival but it sure isnt the build thats the problem.

arcane has a lot of magical defense so if you think you can't afford the high price HP/physical defense ornaments, swap in 1 or 2 menial gear that you can afford to scrap, for a lower level heavy armor or a light armor. (like boots etc) sometimes the gain is better than the sacrifice even if lower level, if the type of armor is diff.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

O_o

What the heck is your pdef? All hp and nothing to back it up is not always good, I do not care if all your gear is +12. 10k hp unbuffed with 2-3k pdef is begging for an archer to eat you b:surrender

I will throw in the pdef factor. ALL hp and no Pdef is just as bad all vit and no magic in my opinion.

Then again...I guess I am thinking more in terms of TW. PvE a smart Cleric can survive anything with 4-5k hp, but you get into TW and things change. In TW you need a more balanced build of hp/pdef/skill in order to survive. Trust me I have seen 5k Clerics survive 10x better with all pdef then 10k+ hp Clerics with pdef that blows. Well...I see it every weekend so.

Anyways...thought I would throw out another point to argue...Ta-ta for now b:bye


PS -- > @ OP you are fine. Pure Mag is easy to go endgame once you gear up but in the end it is YOUR character. Do what you are comfortable with. A little vit is not going to kill you, the average Cleric has 50 vit anyways.

I have 5k p.def self buffed, give or take, with 41 defense levels. I am no where near my end game shards, and I am well aware of the importance of p.def, tyvm.

I know that r8 +10 archers hit 200-800 damage on me in TW with normal attacks. R9s hit slightly more. b:chuckle

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

I have 5k p.def self buffed, give or take, with 41 defense levels. I am no where near my end game shards, and I am well aware of the importance of p.def, tyvm.

I know that r8 +10 archers hit 200-800 damage on me in TW with normal attacks. R9s hit slightly more. b:chuckle

they sure hit low on that server >.>

R9 and 5k pdef is unthinkable here

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

they sure hit low on that server >.>

R9 and 5k pdef is unthinkable here

"Slightly" was sarcastic if you didn't catch it. /eyeroll

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

"Slightly" was sarcastic if you didn't catch it. /eyeroll

nope sry didnt catch it. Its been a while since we saw pple in cleric forum that spout sarcarsm out of the blue b:chuckle

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

nope sry didnt catch it. Its been a while since we saw pple in cleric forum that spout sarcarsm out of the blue b:chuckle

Maybe you should stop responding to posts you don't understand then. An idea yes? (Not sarcasm btw, just so you know.)

Eoria - Harshlands

Aries, post your calc. I'm genuinely curious.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

Maybe you should stop responding to posts you don't understand then. An idea yes? (Not sarcasm btw, just so you know.)

well for those of us who actually were paying attention, we're waiting for the OP to post their pdef and such

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Aries, post your calc. I'm genuinely curious.

http://pwcalc.com/642cc014d7db47ba

Like I said, I'm no where near end game shards, so flawless/immac shards are temp shards, until I work out a solid calculation and decide what to shard or know what to work towards. That 1 perfect in the chest was a free one I had lying around in my inventory.

Not the best gear and not the best build, but it's my playing style. Feel free to critique. b:cute

-Ninja edit- calc is set to completely un-buffed.

Eoria - Harshlands

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

http://pwcalc.com/642cc014d7db47ba

Like I said, I'm no where near end game shards, so flawless/immac shards are temp shards, until I work out a solid calculation and decide what to shard or know what to work towards. That 1 perfect in the chest was a free one I had lying around in my inventory.

Not the best gear and not the best build, but it's my playing style. Feel free to critique. b:cute

No wonder your pdef is ****. You're full cit and you have a ******n channeling cape.

Shard HP in cape/hat and rest pdef unless you're gonna go full JSOD. Replace r8 ring with Lunar ring. Replace chan stones with either g11 or g12 saphs.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

No wonder your pdef is ****. You're full cit and you have a ******n channeling cape.

Shard HP in cape/hat and rest pdef unless you're gonna go full JSOD. Replace r8 ring with Lunar ring. Replace chan stones with either g11 or g12 saphs.

I was considering half garnets, half JoSD, or vit/JoSD, but I've yet to work out the math for myself. Still finding a free weekend to sit down and calculate.

Not replacing chan stones, took me long enough to get used to the channeling as it is. Might replace the r8 ring with the lunar ring as you said though, but will switch depending on the circumstance.

Like I said, not my end game sharding yet.

-Edit- Last I checked Eoria, you had about 5k p.def self buffed too. O.o

TCHP - Lost City

Your fine and keeping tank alive base on magic str is BS.

I was LA until lv 100 whit minimum requirement for LA and no tank ever died under my healing ( except the nood sin factor or bm or wiz or the one that alway end up getting killed cause he want to show off his visa ).

Only reason I switch to AA was the lack or Channel / crit gear for the LA caster type. So I chose to go AA R9.

has long has you are comfortable and know what you can do you will be a good cleric.

But I would aim to have 4k vit for hh 2-2

Eoria - Harshlands

AriesBreath - Raging Tide wrote: »

I was considering half garnets, half JoSD, or vit/JoSD, but I've yet to work out the math for myself. Still finding a free weekend to sit down and calculate.

Not replacing chan stones, took me long enough to get used to the channeling as it is. Might replace the r8 ring with the lunar ring as you said though, but will switch depending on the circumstance.

Like I said, not my end game sharding yet.

-Edit- Last I checked Eoria, you had about 5k p.def self buffed too. O.o

This is what I would do if I were you and didn't want to shard full JSOD. If you're going to do JSOD, do full. Also, added a Lunar ring and replaced chan stones because chan stones are still ****ing stupid on a cleric. You'll live without an extra -6 chan. Trust me.

And last I checked, I wasn't full r9 +10 with a +10 cube neck as well. Fact is that r9 archers can reach up to 90+ atk levels with full set + Jones blessing. Unless you have the def levels to match that, they'll tear through you like paper with your low pdef. Especially once you're purged.

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

This is what I would do if I were you and didn't want to shard full JSOD. If you're going to do JSOD, do full. Also, added a Lunar ring and replaced chan stones because chan stones are still ****ing stupid on a cleric. You'll live without an extra -6 chan. Trust me.

And last I checked, I wasn't full r9 +10 with a +10 cube neck as well. Fact is that r9 archers can reach up to 90+ atk levels with full set + Jones blessing. Unless you have the def levels to match that, they'll tear through you like paper with your low pdef. Especially once you're purged.

Thanks for your opinion, I will come to a conclusion once I get a free day for calculations.

Icebournes are ****ing stupid for my play style; I'll live with my current m.attack, I'm pretty sure.

Exactly, so I have equal p.def, almost twice your HP, and 26 more defense levels than you. If r9s **** me so badly, I can't imagine the time you must have in TW.

Also, if you run by that logic, your def levels will never match up to a full R9's attack level, full JoSD or not. Therein, running by your logic, making JoSDs useless.

Eoria - Harshlands

The icebornes were more for kicks than anything. Regular saph gems will do just fine.

And yeah...full r9 archers can take me down pretty easily. But then again, they can take a lot of people down with relative ease. Same goes with full r9 wizzies and psys.

Highestelf - Heavens Tear

Why is it, when someone asks a basic question, people can't resist creating more confusion for the person that was seeking help?

Perhaps I missed something, by passing over much of the ****-for-tat, based on differing opinions on builds, but the the question WAS, "Am I a fail?"

The question required only a few common sense responses.

What is YOUR intention for your character?
Is it death while grinding that frustrates you?
Some suggestions below to address that!

Is it death in squad events that frustrates you?
Maybe you are victim of heal aggro. DO NOT start healing others UNTIL they get aggro. The only exception to this is if you stack IH on tank before they approach boss. Make sure you are not casting Heals at wrong time.

Barb's and BM's should be doing their best to keep boss aggro from you, and other squishies, unfortunately, it is not always possible. If you are assisting DD, your mag attack could be, eventually will be, high enough to steal aggro from some tankers, especially BM's, and unskilled barbs.

Do not let Veno buff you with Bramble!!!

If you are dying too much in squad, and it's not from actions on your part, your squad members are not doing their jobs properly. That is not fail on your part, but get used to others attempting to lay blame on you, regardless.

Do you intend to be pure mag healer?
If so, then your goal is to have the max mag possible, to KILL mobs "before" they reach you.

Putting stat points in VIT robs you of mag points, which robs you of max mag possible. I can attest THAT HIGHER hp DOES NOT equate TO HIGHER SURVIVABILITY. If your defense is low, high HP doesn't mean ****!!!

As a cleric, high mag provides high mag resist!! Phys resist comes from STR (yes, vit and DEX do have limited impact on your other stats, but not enough to justify robbing your MAG). Increase your PHYS defense with GEAR STATS, shards, and tome!

Get used to the idea of being weaker against the phys mobs that manage to hit you (melee, or range. makes no difference). Learn to use plume shell and IH(Iron Heart Blessing) on yourself. It's not only for healing others. (seems obvious enough BUT I've seen many clerics neglect to use IH effectively for their own benefit).

If you face mobs that really hurt you, stack IH on yourself. DO NOT waste your time with wellspring for anything other than a quick hp recovery, relying on wellspring while fighting is the dumbest thing I've ever seen. I've watched clerics use wellspring to recover only enough HP equal to the damage received in a single hit from mob. How can you kill a mob if your too busy recovering from each blow? DUH!!!

The answer comes down to WHAT is YOUR intention in game play?

If you want to be other than healer, you need to read up on Hybrid build, which requires completely different gear and stat point disbursement.

I've known some real *** kicking hybrid clerics in game, but their squads suffer because they're too busy doing DD, and neglecting heals that other squad members should be getting. This proves very frustrating, and results in some very frustrating runs. Most people enjoy clerics in squad when they are performing their intended role as healer. Each class has an intended role.

If you want to be DD, more power to you, but perhaps a different class would be a better choice for you.

IF pure healer is your desire, survivability for you rests primarily on your ability to kill mobs fast, which comes from your awesome mag. Keep your weapons and gear as current as possible.

One final note, clerics(like all classes) that make it to 80+ will have learned what their failings are, and restat to get on the track they really want. This, with the better gear/weapon options will (should) make for more enjoyable game play.

Finally, read up on cleric builds in the forums. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt!! Remember, there is never a shortage of opinions.

NO - YOU ARE NOT necessarily a fail!!!
A) It's possible you simply need to use your class resources better(appropriately).
It's possible you need to educate yourself on proper gear (read forums on cleric builds).
C) It's possible others in squad are fail, and allow you to presume it's your fault.

You will hear all kinds of crazy **** about doing this, or doing that - and numbers flying around to justify claims they make.

Just learn:
1) Proper kinds of gear/weapons for your build.
2) Use "all" you skills properly.
3) Address weaknesses with gear stats, shards and tome.
4) Higher VIT at expense of lower MAG on pure mag build is bullshyte!!!
5) Make long time game friends, to run with regularly - They will be the best at helping you learn - and willing to be Guinea Pigs for you, as you try new things. (they won't scream when you get them killed)b:laughb:chuckleb:laugh

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

your fine some prefer more vit then others, as said before try aiming for 4k hp + when you get near 9x's
if you need any advice you can always pm me ingame since your also on sanc server b:chuckle

Mekkhala - Lost City

You can argue about which builds are "fail" all day but it boils down to what that player wants.
There are HA clerics that can whoop ***. Granted, they may have to refine their weps to +10 or more and get a very nice tome, but thats their choice. Long as they make up for the build they choose, it's not fail.

Hell, I have been BOTH pure and vit cleric. I chose vit after trying both builds out because I just liked it better. With a 10.3k mana pool I'm not exactly spending millions on pots like people say you will be. Actually, I don't spend a cent on pots. I get them for free from Order of The Void quests, and have yet to run out.

So, even though its a bit late, I hope the OP understands that a build is only as good as you make it. Going vit or pure is not what will define you as "fail" or "pro." Your skill and ability to make the build you choose WORK will be what decides that. Making a good vit build will require more work and better planning imo than pure build. But you can make it happen if you want.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

some builds are worse some better.. most of tips/builds posted here are bad btw


http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681

http://aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Highestelf - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why is it, when someone asks a basic question, people can't resist creating more confusion for the person that was seeking help?

prolly cause there are higher level clerics that have the same question but too embarrassed to post a same thread >> thus it gets branched out to focus on higher level builds, and ends confusing the original pple. But by that time no ones cares.

Vingador - Dreamweaver

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