What are sins?

Dethprowl - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or the whole "don't want sins" thing could be because... sins are bad at TW? They're really good at 1v1s and open PK and PvE at endgame. But TW? Lots of better choices for that. So all a faction needs to do is have just enough sins to get all the goodies, e.g. constant fast nirvanas, TTs and WBs. After that, you get the TW rollers. And then the sins are used to gear the TW rollers. And if all goes well, by the time the TW rollers have been funded with full nirvana equipment with +10 refines and G11 shards, the sins will have quit the game.

I dont think many people in their right minds are going to join a facton just to be a mat farmer for them. I can see alt factions where factions will park their farming sins but that still doesnt make the sin a good choice for a new player. About the only fun for sins in the near future will be the pk events PW seems so fond of, then back to the mines.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Very simple, people hate assassin as if it was something that must be done.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The point still stands: He's not winning just because he's a sin.

The people he fights are just as skilled as him. All of them are excellent pkers. He just simply has the superior class.

And cheze is just an example anyone can relate to. There's plenty of sins on my server who don't know **** about pvp, but can roll skilled pvpers fairly easily simply because they have soooo many control skills, they're impossible to kite, and stopping them with control moves is a joke.

TigerLily - Lost City

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or the whole "don't want sins" thing could be because... sins are bad at TW? They're really good at 1v1s and open PK and PvE at endgame. But TW? Lots of better choices for that. So all a faction needs to do is have just enough sins to get all the goodies, e.g. constant fast nirvanas, TTs and WBs. After that, you get the TW rollers. And then the sins are used to gear the TW rollers. And if all goes well, by the time the TW rollers have been funded with full nirvana equipment with +10 refines and G11 shards, the sins will have quit the game.

.

No one is gonna join a faction if the deal is they have to farm for others every day b:surrender You think a bunch of 5.0 Sins would be willing to help gear up and refine casters, Archers, Barbs + Seekers during their spare gaming time? Just because people share faction doesn't mean they give a **** about others gear. If people around them have shiet gear and get 1 shot in PvP, they just switch faction instead of helping, in my experience. Players with a pimped out Sin will always farm for sure, but only money thats used to improve their own characters (and maybe helping close friends).

There is no point helping poor guildies farm NV, TT99, Lunar or WB either(sadly) since most competitive TW factions are filled with R9 players sharded with JosD and Vit. In a TW-perspective its a waste of time farming mediocre gear to poor people lol. Better of teaching them how to merchandise, make money in-game and maybe help them plvl up their own Sin/Bm for pve.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The point still stands: He's not winning just because he's a sin.

It doesn't take a sin for him to win but if he's going to faceroll the opponent it takes a sin to do it.

This is cheze on a BM vs calvin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgoV8oipI2g

This is cheze on his sin vs NyKage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSUIatTJzOY&playnext=1&list=PLB2718133B46CA163&t=1m18s
Look at how many times NyKage fails to stun or seal because of tidal protection compared with how easy it is for cheze to use seal, stun, sleep, and paralyze.

This is cheze on a psy vs magefizban
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH_GH-sjSzQ

Here is his sin getting 25K zerk-crits with wolf emblem and chill of the deep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btCHz6BXK2I


If you think class does not contribute to the dominance of his sin you are being dishonest.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It doesn't take a sin for him to win but if he's going to faceroll the opponent it takes a sin to do it.

This is cheze on a BM vs calvin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgoV8oipI2g

This is cheze on his sin vs NyKage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSUIatTJzOY&playnext=1&list=PLB2718133B46CA163&t=1m18s
Look at how many times NyKage fails to stun or seal because of tidal protection compared with how easy it is for cheze to use seal, stun, sleep, and paralyze.

This is cheze on a psy vs magefizban
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH_GH-sjSzQ

Here is his sin getting 25K zerk-crits with wolf emblem and chill of the deep.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btCHz6BXK2I


If you think class does not contribute to the dominance of his sin you are being dishonest.

Please, learn to focus. Or learn English.

Or do I really need to put a giant flashing neon sign on the word "just" before you get what I was saying? Yeah, you can argue the whole "skill" thing, I'm just gonna pass that one by, but he does have pretty damn good gear. And that often smooths out the edges. Of course, being a sin does help.

And personally I find it funny that you have a stick up your *** about sins, being a full r9 archer.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Please, learn to focus. Or learn English.

Or do I really need to put a giant flashing neon sign on the word "just" before you get what I was saying? Yeah, you can argue the whole "skill" thing, I'm just gonna pass that one by, but he does have pretty damn good gear. And that often smooths out the edges. Of course, being a sin does help.

You said the point stands "he's not winning just because he's a sin". I introduce a new point that he is able to dominate (not just "win") because of the advantages of his class. I then go on to provide plenty of corroborating evidence.

You might be misinterpreting the argument to think that it doesn't take skill to play a sin like cheze does but those videos speak for themselves. If both players are equally geared and equally skilled the sin will win. Cheze has said this himself.

Helbear - Heavens Tear

ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »

Not really... The sin class is already an establish variable. The credit card is an equation entry, the monkey is just the pratical solution. b:laugh

I'm sure if you played on Heavens Tear my way would make a lot more sense but you just need to include teles for wc...

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You said the point stands "he's not winning just because he's a sin". I introduce a new point that he is able to dominate (not just "win") because of the advantages of his class. I then go on to provide plenty of corroborating evidence.

You might be misinterpreting the argument to think that it doesn't take skill to play a sin like cheze does but those videos speak for themselves. If both players are equally geared and equally skilled the sin will win. Cheze has said this himself.

... I'm not saying that a sin does not have advantages. I'm saying that just those advantages don't make you win.

And I'm not going to discuss "skill" in a game where cash matters. That's just silly.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

... I'm not saying that a sin does not have advantages. I'm saying that just those advantages don't make you win.

And I'm not going to discuss "skill" in a game where cash matters. That's just silly.

All other things being equal the class will indeed make you win.

Only way for sin to lose is if fighting against an opponent with vastly superior skill (ie the sin is really dumb) and/or vastly superior gear.

Chickpea - Lost City

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

... I'm not saying that a sin does not have advantages. I'm saying that just those advantages don't make you win.

And I'm not going to discuss "skill" in a game where cash matters. That's just silly.

What is there to discuss or argue about tho? Do you automatically win because you play a Sin, of course not. No one thinks that lol. Other things like ping, skill, and gear matters as well as being a Tideborn. Gear matters the most obviously. I haven't seen anyone disagree about this.

But when you're equally geared and no one is lagging, you have a massive advantage playing Assassin going up against any other class 1v1. When developers lets the choice of class be a huge factor in PvP you get a shietty game like this where 50-60% on each server plays assassin to win.

SoulPeace - Sanctuary

I agree to the fact that Sins are overpowered.

But I think a greater issue than this is the fact that in this game numbers count more than actual playing skill.

I mean,try to image a Cleric with TT99 Gold equip and with an average of + 5 refines beat a full +12 R9 Sin....try to image it.

Try harder

I guess you couldn't right?,Its virtually impossible unless the Sin is a total idiot/afk,a single or at most a couple of attacks would probably kill the Cleric(Say,knife thrown from 35 meters = cleric dead).

The problem is that this a *Fixed* Target game,where you have to actually point something to cast an offensive skill,and,that you can't rely on your skills/timing to"Dodge" an incoming attack,you got a certain % percentage on your head to avoid physical attacks(Only),and that's your ONLY hope to stay alive after a R9 Sin thrown a Knife Thrown on a squishy 4k Hp Cleric.

I've been playing recently a game not"Target-locked"(A normal action game),where even with crappy gear you actually had a chance to beat a superior geared player(Assumed this is less skilled than you).Same goes for PvE:I've beat bosses alone like 10 levels below a sane mind would even attempt to,and that's all because of good timing and fast dodges(Not as easy as it sound).
In PWI,there is no way I could solo a TT boss in squad Mode at the level I get(Pre-lv.99 - Unless Im an Herc Veno / Unless Im charmed + Overgeared + Tons of pots),not a chance,go get your Gear:Either gain in-game,or just charge $$ and get it right away:Your skills don't count.

On PWI,if you got a good gear...
PvE wise:AFK auto-attack boss till he dies
PvP wise:If you got superior gear(Or if you're a sin),and known how to play,victory is yours.

This is the main problem:Player's skill count too little on this game.

Segreta - Sanctuary

To all R9 and non-R9 people who fought a R9 Sin:

It starts with
One thing I don't know why
It doesn't even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind I designed this rhyme
To explain in due time

All I know
Time is a valuable thing
Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings
Watch it count down to the end of the day
The clock ticks life away

It's so unreal
Didn't look out below
Watch the time go right out the window
Trying to hold on, but didn't even know
Or wasted it all just to watch you go

I kept everything inside
And even though I tried, it all fell apart
What it meant to me will eventually be
A memory of a time when

I tried so hard and got so far
But in the end it doesn't even matter
I had to fall to lose it all
But in the end it doesn't even matter

b:chuckle b:chuckle

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Segreta your signature make me remember of chicken god, a player on other mmo.
He always advertise chicken as a friend, god, invade human, not food.
The community and even gm converted into believing chicken, gm even made chicken event.
All hail chicken. b:laugh

Oh we discussing sins ? Does it matter ? Isn't it obvious ? b:surrender

dragonhunter666

ffs every class is OP in its own way b:shocked..is funny to see most talk trash bout sins as they probly most definitely have an alt sin for farming :P so i have a sin that is 5aps OMD lol so stop whining and go make one......btw hope for lvl roll backs when fix dragoon glitch :P

Olessia - Lost City

dragonhunter666 wrote: »

ffs every class is OP in its own way b:shocked..is funny to see most talk trash bout sins as they probly most definitely have an alt sin for farming :P so i have a sin that is 5aps OMD lol so stop whining and go make one......btw hope for lvl roll backs when fix dragoon glitch :P

2 things.

Only a sin bishes about that.

GOD FORBID someone other than a sin should hit level 105.

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide

Sins are OP, like it or not.

I don't have one, I won't make one either.

I saw plenty in action though, different level and different gear.

They are the class to make if you want to log, put cash and hit the "easy" button.

Yah, other classes can be as OP if cash-shopped. But point is, at equal level equips, sins will dominate/steal aggro/never miss chi..u name it..

Why is there no "barbs are OP" threads ?? Cause they have strenghts but also weaknesses. They can reduce damage at the cost of massive loss of speed. Thier magic resists usually is pretty bad. Their evasion and accuracy will be bad too if u go for "tank build, no aps, 60 dex max"

How many classes prior to 89 (when u get a small chi giving move if u go sage), can rack up chi likes theire's no tomorrrow whitout either a genie skill, target or making their charm tick if they have a MP one ?

This has been discussed over and over, and if they weren't OP, do you really think so many threads would have been made about it ?

Now , i'm off to search a "Cleric are OP" thread...They can buff, they can heal, pury, revive..omg they are OP.. People aren't whining why ? Cause they are mostly a SQUAD made class.

And don't come give me **** that anyone with same buffs can do same thing. Take a team of any classes, make it rainbow, see if I care. NOTHING will do a nirvana run faster then 6 sins. NOTHING can solo FC as fast as a sin. Heck I feel OP when I just get sage bloodpaint, so imagine the class that has it as skill mixed with other OP ones. A well geared skill in the hands of a skilled player is virtually unstoppable unless he/she is afk.

Psys are a close second if cash shopped with all their buffs and reflect damage and whatnot..

I do have a point to bring out that might make some think.

There is a rule in ToS.

Goes something like

"Any ways to bypass parts of a dungeon or skip things that aren't meant to be is not tolerated"

Like luring Qingzi through the door on veno/mystic.

Can we safely say it's another flaw from the company that I saw many videos of sins teleporting through walls in FC to make it a faster run ? I think devs put mobs there for a reason really.

Now make stealthing not possible in FC, try to solo it is as fast and as "safe" as a sin.

I rest my case. I'm sick of those threads, if they are so many about it, it's cause somewhere, some speak the truth...

Ulquiorraa__ - Raging Tide

Sir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sins are OP, like it or not.

I don't have one, I won't make one either.

I saw plenty in action though, different level and different gear.

They are the class to make if you want to log, put cash and hit the "easy" button.

Yah, other classes can be as OP if cash-shopped. But point is, at equal level equips, sins will dominate/steal aggro/never miss chi..u name it..

Why is there no "barbs are OP" threads ?? Cause they have strenghts but also weaknesses. They can reduce damage at the cost of massive loss of speed. Thier magic resists usually is pretty bad. Their evasion and accuracy will be bad too if u go for "tank build, no aps, 60 dex max"

How many classes prior to 89 (when u get a small chi giving move if u go sage), can rack up chi likes theire's no tomorrrow whitout either a genie skill, target or making their charm tick if they have a MP one ?

This has been discussed over and over, and if they weren't OP, do you really think so many threads would have been made about it ?

Now , i'm off to search a "Cleric are OP" thread...They can buff, they can heal, pury, revive..omg they are OP.. People aren't whining why ? Cause they are mostly a SQUAD made class.

And don't come give me **** that anyone with same buffs can do same thing. Take a team of any classes, make it rainbow, see if I care. NOTHING will do a nirvana run faster then 6 sins. NOTHING can solo FC as fast as a sin. Heck I feel OP when I just get sage bloodpaint, so imagine the class that has it as skill mixed with other OP ones. A well geared skill in the hands of a skilled player is virtually unstoppable unless he/she is afk.

Psys are a close second if cash shopped with all their buffs and reflect damage and whatnot..

I do have a point to bring out that might make some think.

There is a rule in ToS.

Goes something like

"Any ways to bypass parts of a dungeon or skip things that aren't meant to be is not tolerated"

Like luring Qingzi through the door on veno/mystic.

Can we safely say it's another flaw from the company that I saw many videos of sins teleporting through walls in FC to make it a faster run ? I think devs put mobs there for a reason really.

Now make stealthing not possible in FC, try to solo it is as fast and as "safe" as a sin.

I rest my case. I'm sick of those threads, if they are so many about it, it's cause somewhere, some speak the truth...

Iam with u 100% xD b:victory

TCHP - Lost City

An other thread turn to QQ about OPness of sin.

OP factor = ((player satisfaction / player age reflex)*experience)^(credit card margin*salary)

there's no op factor, it's all your imagination

or lack of it

but there are some small bug to level the field.