I think I found a flaw with the PWI international tournament

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  • Cytte - Harshlands
    Cytte - Harshlands Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    __Astarte__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Devastator is summoned, automatically aggros both and rips them limb from limb.

    Then the match is restarted minus both sins while everyone in the audience enjoys complimentary fish n' chips. =D
    This^
    b:laugh
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  • XLeetSauce - Dreamweaver
    XLeetSauce - Dreamweaver Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    __Astarte__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Devastator is summoned, automatically aggros both and rips them limb from limb.

    Then the match is restarted minus both sins while everyone in the audience enjoys complimentary fish n' chips. =D

    but were chips come from? i dunna wanna be served wif niu nasty chips if there donated by nob b:shocked
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I don't understand whats so hard for you to understand that i cant understand why you don't understand me.
  • Hellraisor - Heavens Tear
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Asterelle - Whatever server wrote: »
    For those that don't know, in this game you can't AOE or do any attack on a stealthed sin. The only exception is edged blur I believe.

    Even if the other team had a seeker the sin could just take out the seeker first.


    Uhm do u mean it's not possible to: aoe bm, sin is next to him in stealth. Bm gets hit, the sin doesn't? Cuz that's wrong, the sin gets hit when aoe range too.
  • Revenge - Raging Tide
    Revenge - Raging Tide Posts: 834 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For those that don't know, in this game you can't AOE or do any attack on a stealthed sin. The only exception is edged blur I believe.

    Even if the other team had a seeker the sin could just take out the seeker first.


    actually, u can aoe and if the stealthed sin is in range he gets caught in it and popped out. i do it all the time with my stun^^
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Erza - Lothranis
    Erza - Lothranis Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For those that don't know, in this game you can't AOE or do any attack on a stealthed sin. The only exception is edged blur I believe.

    Even if the other team had a seeker the sin could just take out the seeker first.

    Lol u are level 105, and i am sure ur server is full of sins. You do take damage from AOE, i have been a sin b4, why do u think Sins are so useless in TW? Because you aoe the **** out of them.

    Here is another scenario if you are still uncertain. I am level 105 and there is a sin level 40 that is stealthed, but i can totally see him (in case you do not get this, check some sin guides), I attack this lowbie sin. DO you mean if hes in stealth i cannot hit him? Please get your facts right, either you never tried to fight a sin even in duel, OR you just plvl off some guy in FC
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Before you insult people you should read more carefully. Of course they take damage from AOEs but there is no AOE you can cast directed at them. The OP's scenario was that the sin was the final combatant.

    That means the BM can't roar and the only AOE in the game you can use without a target is the seeker Edged Blur buff.
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  • FateMakerr - Heavens Tear
    FateMakerr - Heavens Tear Posts: 953 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Before you insult people you should read more carefully. Of course they take damage from AOEs but there is no AOE you can cast directed at them. The OP's scenario was that the sin was the final combatant.

    That means the BM can't roar and the only AOE in the game you can use without a target is the seeker Edged Blur buff.

    This.

    Are you all so dense and quick to pounce on a poster to even read? You CANNOT TARGET A STEALTHED SIN TO CAST AOES!!!

    I swear, these forums keep getting lower and lower in IQ..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Hellraisor - Heavens Tear
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    in this game you can't AOE or do any attack on a stealthed sin

    Or she meant what we said or she doesn't consider AOE as an attack.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    in this game you can't AOE or do any attack on a stealthed sin

    Or she meant what we said or she doesn't consider AOE as an attack.

    Ehh the key part is "on a stealthed sin". You can direct the aoe at something else but not at the sin. This means if there is only a sin you can't direct any attacks at it.
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  • eyehaveyou
    eyehaveyou Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    ... a lvl 105 sin CANNOT win,
    a lvl 150 sin from PW-CN will prolly win i guess...
  • Boogiepanda - Raging Tide
    Boogiepanda - Raging Tide Posts: 4,682 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Because PW-CN totally doesn't have a level cap the same as ours, because we aren't playing the same game.
  • Hellraisor - Heavens Tear
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ehh the key part is "on a stealthed sin". You can direct the aoe at something else but not at the sin. This means if there is only a sin you can't direct any attacks at it.

    Isn't an AOE an attack? If u can't single target attack a stealthed sin why would u be able to aoe him?
  • RoidAbuse - Sanctuary
    RoidAbuse - Sanctuary Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Isn't an AOE an attack? If u can't single target attack a stealthed sin why would u be able to aoe him?

    Because you can aoe attack someone next to the sin to deal damage to the sin? What is this? Reading comprehension class?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh
  • Hellraisor - Heavens Tear
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    U should read jeez. U say what I'm trying to tell.
  • Man - Raging Tide
    Man - Raging Tide Posts: 1,410 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    FateMakerr - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This.

    Are you all so dense and quick to pounce on a poster to even read? You CANNOT TARGET A STEALTHED SIN TO CAST AOES!!!

    I swear, these forums keep getting lower and lower in IQ..

    Alpha male is one such skill, targetless aoe that reveals assassins.

    Now all the teams will fight in the arena at the same time? But everyone hates me does that mean there will be ganging?

    Lvl 105 sins can hide, but if he's not helping his team fight soon the other team will have more people alive, then this sin could get sealed or popped out again if it was 2 v 1 or 3 v 1 since the sin was playing scaredy cat.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • _Petal_ - Harshlands
    _Petal_ - Harshlands Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Even if you do see an Assassin, they will still telestun, twitch twitch twitch Occult Ice twitch twitchity twitch until you're out of pots and die. It wouldn't be a fight, it would be standing there whilst being murdered in the most brutal fashion possible.

    The worst of all the scenarios is you AoE, and the Assassin goes into force stealth, and by god, you're out of genie HP and have to wait for a recharge in energy before you can do it again. Meanwhile back at the ranch, you're about to be murdered. It's happened before; you will cast a skill, the Assassin will force stealth, the attack will land, but the Assassin won't pop out of stealth.

    PW-CN is at such an advantage that it's not even funny. They're several months ahead of us, with several people above 105.

    Now go bother UrDian for his toon (because the person now playing it has roughly the IQ of a ripe pineapple,) and go kick some **** in the NAME OF HARSHLANDS!

    TUNNEL SNAKES RULE! b:cool
    They made fun of me because I wasn't a R8 Psychic...and then came third cast. It's not funny anymore.

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  • Dezto - Harshlands
    Dezto - Harshlands Posts: 127 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    _Petal_ - Harshlands wrote: »
    Even if you do see an Assassin, they will still telestun, twitch twitch twitch Occult Ice twitch twitchity twitch until you're out of pots and die. It wouldn't be a fight, it would be standing there whilst being murdered in the most brutal fashion possible.

    The worst of all the scenarios is you AoE, and the Assassin goes into force stealth, and by god, you're out of genie HP and have to wait for a recharge in energy before you can do it again. Meanwhile back at the ranch, you're about to be murdered. It's happened before; you will cast a skill, the Assassin will force stealth, the attack will land, but the Assassin won't pop out of stealth.

    PW-CN is at such an advantage that it's not even funny. They're several months ahead of us, with several people above 105.

    Now go bother UrDian for his toon (because the person now playing it has roughly the IQ of a ripe pineapple,) and go kick some **** in the NAME OF HARSHLANDS!

    TUNNEL SNAKES RULE! b:cool

    What is the difference between a ripe pineapple and just a pineapple IQ wise?
  • Arlenia - Dreamweaver
    Arlenia - Dreamweaver Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    A solution would be either to disable stealth in the tournament instance, which would **** off all the sins involved, lol (just drop in a mob that aoes for 1 damage every few seconds if you can't find a way to disable it completely). Or they could put in chi posts or something that you can aoe on to pop them out of stealth.
  • Hellraisor - Heavens Tear
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Simply excluding sins from the tourny and letting them pk on a real toon would be the best option imo.
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Hellraisor - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Simply excluding sins from the tourny and letting them pk on a real toon would be the best option imo.

    ^this
  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Before you insult people you should read more carefully. Of course they take damage from AOEs but there is no AOE you can cast directed at them. The OP's scenario was that the sin was the final combatant.

    That means the BM can't roar and the only AOE in the game you can use without a target is the seeker Edged Blur buff.



    They're saying that there's no way a sin could survive the entire tournament perfectly as planned without being tossed out of stealth by a random AOE. I'm saying "yeswai." It's a free-for-all tournament: people are gonna be focused on surviving and not on finding sins. I'm sure a sin can find a damn corner to wait in until it cools down. Once it's cooled down, they just spam IGs to pick everyone off.
    In PK, sins (on Harshlands at least) do this, and yeah, it's a cheap trick and any sin that abuses it should be shot. These sins still manage to die because they're willing to take risks if the IG run fails, and some of them simply stay out a second too long.
    In TW, sins abuse this, but who cares? One kill per two minutes, ooooh~ so scared. And again, sometimes they go overboard and it leads to their death.
    This is a tournament though. There's a free trip to China on the line. If someone really wants to, they're gonna get that IG invulnerability time down so they know exactly how much time they have, they ARE gonna farm the IGs neccesary and it could very well happen.


    Now do I think GMs care? No I don't. I think if a sin does do this, then his team will simply win. Do I think GMs will care if TWO sins do it, effectively turning the tournament into a stalemate? They should. And even if they don't, PWI China should. The Devs should. What does PW plan to do if this exact same scenario happens at internationals?

    A part of me hopes that when the internationals take place, sins from every country pull this. Why? Because nothing says "sins are OP" like a class single-handedly ruining the fun for everyone and turning the tournament into an absolute laughing stock, with no hope of another class succeeding unless the sins are tossed out of stealth by pure dumb luck.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • WangZi - Dreamweaver
    WangZi - Dreamweaver Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    This is assuming that the people in each team are working independantly and not using teamwork? Since if 2 or more people stick together, like say a psychic and a sin A (sin in stealth mode) then if the other sin B pops up trying to kill the psychic, then sin A can pop up and try to kill sin B (but of course if sin B is using ironguard, then this most likely won't work) but I'm sure there must be some way, who knows? The best team might figure something out
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  • Vasilisk - Harshlands
    Vasilisk - Harshlands Posts: 208 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Man - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Alpha male is one such skill, targetless aoe that reveals assassins.
    Alpha male is not tergetless. It's aoe, but need traget to cast.
  • ArchAngeLi - Harshlands
    ArchAngeLi - Harshlands Posts: 285 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Guild A brings a team that has a 105 sin
    Guild B brings a team that has a 105 sin
    Sin A brings a ****-ton of ironguards and plans on ONLY popping out of stealth while ironguarded, then retreating, knowing that as long as he's alive, his team is alive.
    Sin B does the same
    Sin A and Sin B successfully kill off every other opponent in the tournament, leaving both Sin A and Sin B as the last surviving two.

    Both of them sit in stealth, unable to see each other.


    WUT HAPPENS NAO??

    Both resolve the tourny with a quintesential ROCK PAPER SCISSORS LIZARD SPOCK

    Scissors cut paper, Paper covers rock, Rock crushes lizard, Lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, Scissors decapitate Lizard, Lizard eats paper, Paper disapproves Spock, Spock Vaporises rock, and of course, Rock crushes Scissors

    am I pro or what?
  • _blood_rain - Sanctuary
    _blood_rain - Sanctuary Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    They're saying that there's no way a sin could survive the entire tournament perfectly as planned without being tossed out of stealth by a random AOE. I'm saying "yeswai." It's a free-for-all tournament: people are gonna be focused on surviving and not on finding sins. I'm sure a sin can find a damn corner to wait in until it cools down. Once it's cooled down, they just spam IGs to pick everyone off.
    In PK, sins (on Harshlands at least) do this, and yeah, it's a cheap trick and any sin that abuses it should be shot. These sins still manage to die because they're willing to take risks if the IG run fails, and some of them simply stay out a second too long.
    In TW, sins abuse this, but who cares? One kill per two minutes, ooooh~ so scared. And again, sometimes they go overboard and it leads to their death.
    This is a tournament though. There's a free trip to China on the line. If someone really wants to, they're gonna get that IG invulnerability time down so they know exactly how much time they have, they ARE gonna farm the IGs neccesary and it could very well happen.


    Now do I think GMs care? No I don't. I think if a sin does do this, then his team will simply win. Do I think GMs will care if TWO sins do it, effectively turning the tournament into a stalemate? They should. And even if they don't, PWI China should. The Devs should. What does PW plan to do if this exact same scenario happens at internationals?

    A part of me hopes that when the internationals take place, sins from every country pull this. Why? Because nothing says "sins are OP" like a class single-handedly ruining the fun for everyone and turning the tournament into an absolute laughing stock, with no hope of another class succeeding unless the sins are tossed out of stealth by pure dumb luck.
    I want this to happen as well. At least then maybe devs will be forced to acknowledge that they did something really terrible. I lost hope in this tourney being balanced and fair when i saw that fish were required and local pwi tourneys are to be done in a player's own gear >.>
  • WangZi - Dreamweaver
    WangZi - Dreamweaver Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    It is free-for-all but it's last man standing wins for their team, so there must be some teamwork involved, not everyone kills everyone
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  • Longknife - Harshlands
    Longknife - Harshlands Posts: 4,843 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    WangZi - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It is free-for-all but it's last man standing wins for their team, so there must be some teamwork involved, not everyone kills everyone

    Exactly. Last MAN standing.

    You can send in 5 level 100s in level 30 gear, they could all be clerics for all you care, but if the sixth man is a 105 sin with 400 Ironguards on hand, he's gonna win. The only way he can lose is by being careless or by being tossed out of stealth by an AOE, but that would require pure dumb luck.
    I <3 AGOREY
  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide
    _Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    The CN tournament will be limited on gear/coin per player.

    Why can't the PWI qualifiers be the same? It's for fairness anyways.
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  • WangZi - Dreamweaver
    WangZi - Dreamweaver Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
    Exactly. Last MAN standing.

    You can send in 5 level 100s in level 30 gear, they could all be clerics for all you care, but if the sixth man is a 105 sin with 400 Ironguards on hand, he's gonna win. The only way he can lose is by being careless or by being tossed out of stealth by an AOE, but that would require pure dumb luck.

    But that's only if the person that the sin is attacking is by themselves. If there was another enemy nearby, they could stun/sleep/paralyze the sin since Ironguard only makes them immune to damage. Personally I don't know if this works since I'm not a PvP player, but if it ENDS with ONE player from team A vs ONE player from team B and one of them is a sin, then I guess that's where the problem lies.
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