Is Heavy Arcane still applicable in today's PWI?

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

Myriad isn't reliable,

Never said it was.

and Befuddling Mist is AoE.

So is Malefic Crush, which inflicts a mana drain on top of its physical damage. Befuddling Mist can be cast at least twice as often as Noxious Gas, and you can gain two sparks in foxform for Malefic Crush faster than a caster can gain 2 sparks for Parasitic Nova.

Is Solandri Lv. 102? Stop being a stupid bi0tch, okay?

9x at least. (He has, or had, a Beamhoff Slicer... not sure if that's his current weapon.) Unless pet HP gain becomes non-linear after 100, it shouldn't make a lot of difference.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

zbzkda wrote: »

I'm going to just keep replying until this gets so out of hand the topic needs to get locked. You irritate me with your utter stupidity.

What does that even mean? As in, in English, if I interpreted that by the rules of English, what does it mean? It's incoherent. It's gibberish. You make absolutely no sense. Go learn English.

Veno can be caster or fox, or whatever mix to whatever degree while wearing either HA or LA. You aren't making any sense. You can have a caster HA. HA/AA is not "flexibility", it is a limitation. You CRIPPLE your magic attack to have supposed "survivability" when AA can give you the same Physical and Magical defense as HA veno. All you gained is a different set of armour and lower attack. It's stupid. I DO NOT ADVOCATE HA VENO. I will not at any time ever do so either. GTFO with your FAIL BUILD.

Show me ONE pwcalc with an HA veno which has 10K+ mdef, and 8k+ pdef in human form, AND also has 14K-18K magic attack. Or else SHUT UP, because HA is inferior since you CANNOT regain the attack you lose due to less points put into MAG. Or who knows, produce a pwcalc with 10K+ pdef in human form and 8K+ mdef if you want. Just make sure that the magic attack value is at the standard of pure MAG AA veno.

When you realize that HA veno is INHERENTLY inferior in attack, you can SHUT UP and STOP telling new venos to use a *** build. Who knows though, maybe you'll come back and tell me that "Attack is not important", or you'll say, "I'm aiming for melee fox damage, so magic attack is not important". In either case you wind up looking stupid because argument #1 just makes you look dumb by itself, and argument #2 will prove that you were talking about melee veno.

Go go go, it's lose-lose for you and your STUPID build. I hereby assert and maintain that it is impossible for HA veno to end up with unbuffed attack values paralleling MAG AA veno. I also assert that it is however fully possible for a MAG AA veno to match the defense of ANY HA veno, and ALSO come out with FAR GREATER attack, and I proclaim this truth until somebody links me a pwcalc with an HA veno whose attack range is CLOSE TO 13K-18K. Let me hear you talk stupidness now and weasel out of it with "flexibility".

If you look closely, I ignored you completely in my first post, then refrained from quoting you for 2 posts straight after that, then loosely quoted you while engaging in another debate altogether before eventually directly addressing you with a quote.

Noober, it has been asserted three times that the magic attack of an HA/AA veno is inferior. The whole reason to go HA/AA is to allow the flexibility of doing physical attack, something an arcane veno cannot come close to an HA/AA veno and especially an LA veno on.

It's nice to sit there and make demands of something that few arcane veno's get anyways to a HA/AA veno. A HA/AA veno can eaisly get the defence requirements you demand, however, that requires two PWcalc links because it requires two sets depending on the situation. That's why one makes a HA/AA veno.

Obviously you're too stupid to get what flexibility means, and certainly given your extreme examples of magic attack and disregarding that HA/AA veno's are not only fox form veno's, you have more than a substantial amount to learn about the potential of the veno class.

As for DPS, I will doubly refer to Solandri on HA/AA having better single target DPS than a caster -- it's not even close. Nirvana? TT? Take a HA/AA veno to do more damage on bosses. Even an LA will outdps a caster. Fox form on single targets with HA/AA and LA > casting. The only limitations on being HA/AA is, as I've already said from the very start, losing some magic attack. Since venomancers need not be pure magic attack, as that would be stupid and ignore venomancer skills that directly cater to physical attack, you fail yet again.

Someone sure needs to open their eyes a little bit and actually try playing a HA/AA veno instead of relying on PWcalc to do all the thinking for them.

thumbs wrote: »

Any melee DD had better be able to raw out DD a caster DD 1-1 because casters don't have to run up to their target, or take hits. Heavy venos just plain shouldn't be compared to AA venos: they should be compared to other melee classes to determine if they're effective as melee. Pure mag can even out dps mag by using fox form. -It doesn't make fox form the best choice to commonly use. Venos lack many skills other melee classes have like Blood Paint, Stuns, multiple phys aoes, etc. Is the dps as good when stunning, running up to mob, or debuffing (Ironwood doesn't slow down dmg by applying it)?

There's a certain point some of us have reached where we can do some pretty amazing things with our toons after sinking a fortune into them (can be acquired in game). A non pure is never going to have the best of both worlds. At best it will be mediocre at both. With 560 mag, you could take a Rank 8 pataka with 2 sapphire gems and still not replenish a Lv.102 herc's entire HP in one cast. You probably won't be 1-2 shotting huge groups of mobs in the OHT maps any time soon. You'll be limited in many ways. On the other hand, HA may be better at TT farming with a group, but some will be disappointed that your pet can't tank anything but Djin.

Hate to break it to ya but my HA/AA was herc-healing Illusion Nemen and other bosses in 3-3 before they gimped it. Now, I haven't bothered because I have a BM and sin, but there are few things that require that much mag attack for healing, meaning few things a veno can herc-heal that a HA/AA won't be able to. Channeling matters substantially more than magic attack.

zbzkda

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Solandri has stated that his HA/AA veno can fully heal her herc in one cast. Stop with the posting from ignorance, okay?

Re: Well I doubt that a bit on the following grounds :O

http://pwcalc.com/c27e01796d434cfb: That is an HA veno using r9 pataka. The pataka is +12, and G12 sapphire gem sharded. Level 10 pet heal skill does the following:

Heals the pet for 540 + 30% of the caster's magic attack. This person Solandri, says that he or she has healed his or her herc for a total its max HP in one heal, but, a +12 r9 weapon on an HA character gives this character a MAX base magic attack of approximately 13,719 (that is, the the high end of the pataka's spike damage range).

Taking this value, 13,719, and taking 30% of it, you get 4,115.7. 4,115.7 + 540 = 4,655.7. A level 100 herc has 4,585 HP. This is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM value that the HA veno will be getting in a single heal from a +12 rank 9 weapon since it uses the pataka's high end range value, ignoring the attack level bonus.

Beamhoof Slicer has much lower attack than r9 pataka, and has no +30 attack level. Here is a beamhoof slicer on the same veno: http://pwcalc.com/8a934d85cf4506fa .

Taking again, the high end value of the HA veno's attack range with a +12 Beamhoof Slicer sharded with G12 sapphires, you get a max spike base attack of 10,874. The formula is 540 + (matk * 0.3). The value you get is: 3,802.2.

Herc at lvl 100 has 4585 HP :O

That person's claim to have healed his herc's HP in full in one single heal may need to be double checked. An HA veno with a +12 G12 sharded Beamhoof Slicer simply does not put out the base values to heal a herc fully in one heal. All of this assumes that Solandri has a +12 g12 sharded weapon, which he or she may not have had when he or she made that claim.

This person MAY be able to tank bosses well with his or her herc, by using the -channeling bonuses from the Beamhoof Slicer and his or her ornaments, but s/he certainly cannot heal the herc fully in one go. That said, I see that this Solandri person is apparently highly regarded, so I'll leave it at that Many factors could be going into his claim, including Jones' Blessing, cleric buffs, etc, etc, so it may be possible that this DID occur in the end. That was fun lol >.<

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bullsh*t

I was going to reply to you originally, and I had your post quoted in multi-quote and everything, but then I really got interested in Mayfly's post and got into a real discussion about something that was actually interesting. Then my post got long. So now that I've reached here, I realize that you're not worth the time it takes to turn my post into a TL;DR. Keep masturbating to your HA veno god whose potency you seem to be unable to prove with a PWCalc.

I'll just say this: If you are a venomancer having problems with bosses other than Drum, Wurlord, Djinnscream and Colluseast in squad mode while soloing, then you should probably delete your venomancer. I am only lvl 92 with a veno whose magic attack is gimped because I was DEX stat before, and haven't restated to pure MAG yet. And I can solo all bosses other than those, so talking about tanking Illusion Nemen as if it's a big deal shows in itself how absolutely lost you are and exactly how much you're clutching at straws. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TANKING HARD BOSSES, like Wurlord, MORON. Any two by four veno can tank Nemen with a herc, wtf? LOL

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

zbzkda wrote: »

Re: Well I doubt that a bit on the following grounds :O

http://pwcalc.com/c27e01796d434cfb: That is an HA veno using r9 pataka. The pataka is +12, and G12 sapphire gem sharded. Level 10 pet heal skill does the following:

Heals the pet for 540 + 30% of the caster's magic attack. This person Solandri, says that he or she has healed his or her herc for a total its max HP in one heal, but, a +12 r9 weapon on an HA character gives this character a MAX base magic attack of approximately 13,719 (that is, the the high end of the pataka's spike damage range).

Taking this value, 13,719, and taking 30% of it, you get 4,115.7. 4,115.7 + 540 = 4,655.7. A level 100 herc has 4,585 HP. This is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM value that the HA veno will be getting in a single heal from a +12 rank 9 weapon since it uses the pataka's high end range value, ignoring the attack level bonus.

Beamhoof Slicer has much lower attack than r9 pataka, and has no +30 attack level. Here is a beamhoof slicer on the same veno: http://pwcalc.com/8a934d85cf4506fa .

Taking again, the high end value of the HA veno's attack range with a +12 Beamhoof Slicer sharded with G12 sapphires, you get a max spike base attack of 10,874. The formula is 540 + (matk * 0.3). The value you get is: 3,802.2.

Herc at lvl 100 has 4585 HP :O

That person's claim to have healed his herc's HP in full in one single heal may need to be double checked. An HA veno with a +12 G12 sharded Beamhoof Slicer simply does not put out the base values to heal a herc fully in one heal. All of this assumes that Solandri has a +12 g12 sharded weapon, which he or she may not have had when he or she made that claim.

This person MAY be able to tank bosses well with his or her herc, by using the -channeling bonuses from the Beamhoof Slicer and his or her ornaments, but s/he certainly cannot heal the herc fully in one go. That said, I see that this Solandri person is apparently highly regarded, so I'll leave it at that Many factors could be going into his claim, including Jones' Blessing, cleric buffs, etc, etc >.>

One doesn't need to heal a herc fully. This is yet another straw man conjured up by you to try and make an assertion that HA veno's are ___________.

Also HA veno's use -channeling ornaments/gear. One doesn't need excessive magic attack in order to adequately heal a herc.

Factors you ignored into DPS is -interval, not to mention, once again, the flexibility of an HA/AA veno to use arcane. Why am I not surprise idiot poster is going pure HA and phys attack for everything in his pwcalc examples.

This is a lesson, fellow veno's, that you can't learn how to play the game with pwcalc.

zbzkda

Wow, it's the IDIOT MORON again, thinking that those calculations had something to do with his HA god. LOL, I was branching away from you, see? I was talking to someone else about something that had absolutely nothing to do with you, see? Strawman my *** because in the first place, I WAS NOT TALKING TO YOU.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Maybe you should try playing a HA/AA (like some posters here already do) instead of raging on the forum about how much they suck. b:cute

Also, quit acting like you're interested in the mathematics of damage. You dismissed Solandri's in-game tested examples with mere conjecture. Nobody takes you seriously.

zbzkda

OMG wow, I just realized I've got SO MUCH +post count from this topic, it's like heaven LOL

On to 100 posts, onwards and upwards I always say, and never looking back LOLOLOLOL

EDIT: He replied again LOL XD. EVERYONE on my server already KNOWS that I used to an HA+AA mix veno, you MORON.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

zbzkda wrote: »

Wow, it's the IDIOT MORON again, thinking that those calculations had something to do with his HA god. LOL, I was branching away from you, see? I was talking to someone else about something that had absolutely nothing to do with you, see? Strawman my *** because in the first place, I WAS NOT TALKING TO YOU.

temper tantrums win arguments. if you want a private conversation, forum PM. stop getting all frothy and crazy, it makes you look even dumber.

and a side note, attack levels have nothing to do with healing.

zbzkda

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

temper tantrums win arguments. if you want a private conversation, forum PM. stop getting all frothy and crazy, it makes you look even dumber.

and a side note, attack levels have nothing to do with healing.

I think I'm at 93 posts now? XD

Okay, first of all, when beginning a sentence you should use a capital letter on the first word, see? I learned that when I was 4 years old b:pleased

But I guess all that just adds up to make you think I'm even dumber right? They say an idiot will always watch other people and SWEAR they are the idiots when the he himself is the biggest moron in the room LOLOLOL

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

zbzkda wrote: »

OMG wow, I just realized I've got SO MUCH +post count from this topic, it's like heaven LOL

(looks at post counts)

(looks at join dates)

amateur.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

What the heck is this? Every time the thread seems to be going somewhere, it turns into shouting.


Here's my thoughts:
An HA/AA veno has slightly lower attack and more defence than an arcance veno. Hitpoints roughly similar to a vit-hybrid veno.

The difference, in both directions, isn't that major - the HA has more flexibility (substituting pdef for mdef), and although they can't easily make up the magic attack difference, they have increased physical attack.

Wasn't that difficult, was it?


If anything, I'd say it's like the difference between sage and demon barb. Important to the person making the choice, and no one else is even going to notice you because you're not spazzing on the APS.

Is it a good build? Yes.
Is it relevant to end-game PVP? Well, no. You're a veno. You're gonna get one-shot by wizards and archers and you're going to be cheered when you drop the cata-barbs buffs.

truekossy

zbzkda wrote: »

Re: Well I doubt that a bit on the following grounds :O

http://pwcalc.com/c27e01796d434cfb: That is an HA veno using r9 pataka. The pataka is +12, and G12 sapphire gem sharded. Level 10 pet heal skill does the following:

Heals the pet for 540 + 30% of the caster's magic attack. This person Solandri, says that he or she has healed his or her herc for a total its max HP in one heal, but, a +12 r9 weapon on an HA character gives this character a MAX base magic attack of approximately 13,719 (that is, the the high end of the pataka's spike damage range).

Taking this value, 13,719, and taking 30% of it, you get 4,115.7. 4,115.7 + 540 = 4,655.7. A level 100 herc has 4,585 HP. This is the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM value that the HA veno will be getting in a single heal from a +12 rank 9 weapon since it uses the pataka's high end range value, ignoring the attack level bonus.

Three minor things on the r9
1: That's unbuffed. Most people probably have a cleric alt or friend to buff them, especially if they're R9. (So max matk now goes up to 16061)
2: Since we're invoking R9 and this is for PvE instead of PvP (so extreme defense isn't as much of a need), you'd most likely drop one of the PQ rings for the R9 ring to get more m.atk. (Max m.atk is now 16526)
3: They still have the option of swapping out to their an arcane gear set that grants +magic and/or -chan. Every 10 mag is roughly 300 or so more m.atk, so you can make an estimate from there. Not gonna include this though since it varies purely on taste.)

And, as mentioned before, attack levels have no effect on heals, so ignoring the attack levels was entirely accurate of you. ;P

zbzkda wrote: »

Herc at lvl 100 has 4585 HP :O

Biggest thing about this... Solandri was in the 90s or so when this was done, so the lower HP combined with perhaps cleric buffs and wearing a set of arcane gear that gave +mag may have all been contributing factors. That, or an assumption that it wasn't from zero HP to full because if herc went to zero HP... well... no amount of healing power could bring it back without using revive first.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

zbzkda wrote: »

I think I'm at 93 posts now? XD

Okay, first of all, when beginning a sentence you should use a capital letter on the first word, see? I learned that when I was 4 years old b:pleased

But I guess all that just adds up to make you think I'm even dumber right? They say an idiot will always watch other people and SWEAR they are the idiots when the he himself is the biggest moron in the room LOLOLOL

Grammar **** = my argument sucks.

You showed from your first post you haven't the slightest clue about an HA/AA veno. The way you shard one, the way you equip one, and most of all, your inane arguments surrounding the viability of one doing a little less magic damage and a hell of a lot more physical.

Venomancers are not the masters of magic to begin with btw. That title belongs to Psychics and Wizards. You won't outdmg either of those, especially in the few instances where casters are wanted (RB). Veno's for magic are used primarily for debuffs, which have nothing to do with magic damage in the first place.

Since physical damage > magic damage especially concerning DPS, a LA and HA/AA veno will out-DPS an arcane veno, as mentioned in the first retort I made, and a handful of other times on this forum, they will -not- do as much magic damage, but the payoff is more physical damage and more flexibility.

You can't even argue the benefits of playing an HA/AA from face value. You have to stick to horse **** straw men like "pure melee fox veno" or "full pet heal from one cast". Everyone already knows your arguments suck and you haven't the slightest clue. Just another power leveled noob we've become accustomed to who thinks because they have a high level character they know anything.

zbzkda

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(looks at post counts)

(looks at join dates)

amateur.

b:avoid

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

zbzkda wrote: »

I think I'm at 93 posts now? XD

Okay, first of all, when beginning a sentence you should use a capital letter on the first word, see? I learned that when I was 4 years old b:pleased

But I guess all that just adds up to make you think I'm even dumber right? They say an idiot will always watch other people and SWEAR they are the idiots when the he himself is the biggest moron in the room LOLOLOL

they say a lot of things, gratz on your post count.

Queenofpower - Dreamweaver

Best to play to the stregths of the class. Anything else will be less when u see the big picture. If u wana use magic wep dont go heavy, i feel wats the point of surviving if u do silly damage....pure magic = they can one hit u, but u can one hit most of em too

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Queenofpower - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Best to play to the stregths of the class. Anything else will be less when u see the big picture. If u wana use magic wep dont go heavy, i feel wats the point of surviving if u do silly damage....pure magic = they can one hit u, but u can one hit most of em too

Heavy's and HA/AA can use a "magic wep". It's essential for a veno, to be effective, to use a magic weapon, especially one at their own level. While they won't do as much damage, they aren't one-shot classes, and if one wants a pure caster who does nothing but cast and do high DPH, roll a wizard or psychic, they are much better at that than a veno.

thumbs

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Heavy's and HA/AA can use a "magic wep". It's essential for a veno, to be effective, to use a magic weapon, especially one at their own level. While they won't do as much damage, they aren't one-shot classes, and if one wants a pure caster who does nothing but cast and do high DPH, roll a wizard or psychic, they are much better at that than a veno.

Veno may hit *slightly* lighter, but it ch/casts faster. For PvE: The only people I would recommend playing Wiz to are all those fail venos that think pets are only for luring, supposedly forget to amp, and hit the mob your Herc is on starting with a very weak Lucky Scarab. Wiz can be a fun class to play but it's value in squads is lacking and that small fun aspect gets old.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

Hercs are useless at high lvl. Need dps pet anyway.

I chose AA build and i can one shot most ppl in TW

HA/AA is expensive and nice change. I thought of restating it myself cause it would make the gameplay more interesting. Defently not outdated if you can afford the gear.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Tell me you aren't serious that a veno channels/casts faster than a psychic.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Tell me you aren't serious that a veno channels/casts faster than a psychic.

a veno has the slowest channel and cast time than any other mag class. cleric is almost same as veno tho. Who said venos channel is fast O_O

thumbs

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hercs are useless at high lvl. Need dps pet anyway.

I chose AA build and i can one shot most ppl in TW

HA/AA is expensive and nice change. I thought of restating it myself cause it would make the gameplay more interesting. Defently not outdated if you can afford the gear.

If Herc's are useless, you're probably only running BH metal or not prepping a mob for the party. S.Soul Degeneration -> Amp -> Ironwood all while Herc takes the hits. For grinding in VoS: Herc can round up ~50 mobs to be one shot w/o veno getting touched and or while building chi. Are you going to pot or wait for a squad for Black Hole Devourer? Herc can become less useful, but not useless.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

If Herc's are useless, you're probably only running BH metal or not prepping a mob for the party. S.Soul Degeneration -> Amp -> Ironwood all while Herc takes the hits. For grinding in VoS: Herc can round up ~50 mobs to be one shot w/o veno getting touched and or while building chi. Are you going to pot or wait for a squad for Black Hole Devourer? Herc can become less useful, but not useless.

I work 90% of the time in squads. herc is useless cause you will have a squad with 2 sins or aps most of times. Herc is only for tanking purpose and not DD. Better to lvl a dps pet. Dark Rider does more dmg than herc...fact. Just cause i say herc is useless at high level, doesnt mean i cant use other pets...so talking about prep for party. seems like you just never used another pet than your herc.
The only propose ur herc might have at lvl100 is for pulling, cause most likely you will outdamage him even with your endgame gear. Even for grinding not suitable anymore. Better to get QQ bird or DPS pet, cause you will get always agro with with ur endgame gear.

thumbs

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I work 90% of the time in squads. herc is useless cause you will have a squad with 2 sins or aps most of times.

Yet there's still 20% of the time you don't have them. Then there's ones that aren't HP'ing from mob to mob leaving you to get to them first (as I said prep). There's even fewer who will lure a boss, and it's nice having a Herc to catch. They're rarely the first to arrive as well. With a Herc out, you can earn the teleport fee back before the squad is there.

Herc is only for tanking purpose and not DD. Better to lvl a dps pet. Dark Rider does more dmg than herc...fact.

As with veno vs other mage DD's; things aren't so simple. Herc has reflect and makes better use of it than any other pet. It also frees you up to dd more than any other pet (generally). The examples I would give where a DD pet has some use is when it's barely getting hit (Djinn, Elementals on 2nd FF boss, etc). Most people are too lazy to summon a special pet for just those.

Just cause i say herc is useless at high level, doesnt mean i cant use other pets...so talking about prep for party. seems like you just never used another pet than your herc.

8 Lvl 100+ pets. -You?

The only propose ur herc might have at lvl100 is for pulling, cause most likely you will outdamage him even with your endgame gear.

Ever heard of Ethereal Inamorato or Celestial Sting?

Even for grinding not suitable anymore. Better to get QQ bird or DPS pet, cause you will get always agro with with ur endgame gear.

End game gear = 1-2 hit kills on grind mobs. Don't think most high end venos are still picking off mobs 1 by 1. No dps pet can round up mobs like a Herc can. Nix gets stuck and can't hold aggro on [?] mobs even with 2 aggro skills. There are some mobs that yes a dps pet can be better on but it requires a limited style of grinding on particular mobs. You could say the same of a Celestial Sting / Ethereal Inamorato (can grind on particular mobs better than other pets). A Herc is well rounded for most styles and most mobs. The only reason I even grind with a Nix is to level it. If any legendary pet is useless for PvE at high levels; it's the Nix. Even for that though, there is Xenospace Drake which I've been trashing the quest for anyway.

I'd definitely suggest all venos get a Herc, and forget the Nix unless you want a squeak toy.

ColdSnow - Dreamweaver

thumbs wrote: »

Yet there's still 20% of the time you don't have them. Then there's ones that aren't HP'ing from mob to mob leaving you to get to them first (as I said prep). There's even fewer who will lure a boss, and it's nice having a Herc to catch. They're rarely the first to arrive as well. With a Herc out, you can earn the teleport fee back before the squad is there.

10% not 20%, if 80% of the server are sins, that the chance u get into sin + aps squad is even way higher that 90%. i cant catch with with herc fast enough in the instances like sot, abba. most likely all others do it. i lure and run behind cleric so she/he can BB. I would defently not risk my charm just for the propose to get out my herc and catch the boss, if there are other 4 squad mates who can do it better and faster O.o i doubt you can get 30k that fast to pay off your teleport fee. My mag attack is to high to DD even at elite mobs. I get agro at first hit. To kill him with Herc would take me to long, since i wouldnt dare to DD


As with veno vs other mage DD's; things aren't so simple. Herc has reflect and makes better use of it than any other pet. It also frees you up to dd more than any other pet (generally). The examples I would give where a DD pet has some use is when it's barely getting hit (Djinn, Elementals on 2nd FF boss, etc). Most people are too lazy to summon a special pet for just those.

Again...i rather do FCs on my sin or aps bm, than on my Veno. Why would i spent hours on an instance that i can farm easily with another char. Fact is if i work 90% of the time in squads, then there Herc is not needed. Only for solo TT purpose. Actually i spend even 99% of my time in squads. Herc usage durring this time? Since weeks none. Use Dark Rider cause he has better dmg output than a herc. And people like to see me do with my pet on [?] more dmg than herc and keep up with any other mag class dmg.

8 Lvl 100+ pets. -You?

7 lvl100 pets and didnt use my herc since ages.

Ever heard of Ethereal Inamorato or Celestial Sting?
i have them but i dont use them. simply cause their range is at all high instance bosses not enough. i just sent sometimes herc for luring purpose cause he can handle few hits. i could use any other pet as well but then i dont really care which one, cause i dont need a special pet to lure succesful. i can do it with all

End game gear = 1-2 hit kills on grind mobs. Don't think most high end venos are still picking off mobs 1 by 1. No dps pet can round up mobs like a Herc can. Nix gets stuck and can't hold aggro on [?] mobs even with 2 aggro skills. There are some mobs that yes a dps pet can be better on but it requires a limited style of grinding on particular mobs. You could say the same of a Celestial Sting / Ethereal Inamorato (can grind on particular mobs better than other pets). A Herc is well rounded for most styles and most mobs. The only reason I even grind with a Nix is to level it. If any legendary pet is useless for PvE at high levels; it's the Nix. Even for that though, there is Xenospace Drake which I've been trashing the quest for anyway.
i have rank 8 and 2-shot most lvl100+ mobs in hell.

I'd definitely suggest all venos get a Herc, and forget the Nix unless you want a squeak toy.

Herc is good for maybe lvl50-95. After that useless unless you grind your *** off in TT or any other instance ALONE. I dont, i make money in nirvy as prolly any other Veno does. Herc is useless there as in any other instance where you work in squad (except maybe for Delta). Dark Rider does more dmg and you can actually SEE the difference right away. At normal mobs, a nix is way more usefull. QQbirds AOE, my aoe = 2 shot lvl100+ mobs. With herc it takes way to long, imo. If i want him to tank all the time, i wont be able to DD, cause i would agro right away....with this his purpose as tank is useless.
For lover lvls prolly nice and awesome, but my herc cant keep up with the agro of my end-game weapon.

I dont use him at all anymore, unless u go tank a boss for fun. Fact is..since Sins and BM are better choice to tank than a barb even ...we are not even considered as Tanks. The last time i tanked any boss at all, was at lvl93 at FC, after that never, cause there is ALWAYS a sin in any squad i been.

Nine_Lives - Raging Tide

I just came back from tw here in pwi and i compared the results of my experience here as a LA veno here and Pure Magic in PW Philippines. My 2 venos sre athe same level, same buffs and same weapon with same socket and shard (sakyamunis light with 1 flawless Magic damage/def shard) here are my findings:


1. I managed to survive 1 additional archer shot as an LA compared to pure mag.

2. I managed to survive long enough to purge and befuddle/ amp damage a cata as an LA.

3. I managed to purge more players without dying as an LA than as a pure mage.

4. Though as a pure magic I am armed with a captain's armlet with 2 flawless citrines i still can't live long enough to purge a cata barb or a hi-level melee with 4 or more buffs

5. The bulk of those killing me isn't magic. I'ts melee. I have only been killed once by a magic type and it's an aoe. ARCHERS and BM'S not PSYS or WIZZIES are my main killers. As my friend told me ''their mana is too precious to waste on a veno like us...their targets are the one that can actually take doen the tower'' ''You're not the main DD dealer, din't stretch yourself too thin...leave that to our psy's and wizzies


I know a caster veno has bigger damage output when it comes to dd, but based on the exprience i got on the battle field this last TW i'm now more convinced on having the heavier armor for me to survive longer. My role as purger/amper jost got better as a LA, what more if I go heavy? b:chuckle

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

thumbs wrote: »

If Herc's are useless, you're probably only running BH metal or not prepping a mob for the party. S.Soul Degeneration -> Amp -> Ironwood all while Herc takes the hits. For grinding in VoS: Herc can round up ~50 mobs to be one shot w/o veno getting touched and or while building chi. Are you going to pot or wait for a squad for Black Hole Devourer? Herc can become less useful, but not useless.

You need to take into context and read what the poster said. A herc is not useful in squad play, especially in low and high level FF's where APS far outdamages hercs. In solo play, without a doubt, still useful. There was a time a herc veno was one of the best DD's in the squad and can tank all but one boss in FF, but now in these instances obsolete. Veno mainly debuff and dmg (more dmg goes to higher APS veno using mag sword/high refined wep with phys shards) as role with "tank" in squad basically gone. Herc isn't nearly as useful, need to just get a high dmg pet higher than herc (there's probably about half a dozen of them), place claw, sac, bash, protect, strong, bless, any 4 of those, good to go without wasting 150m+ on a herc that not useful anymore in squads.

arsavin666

I listened permission beforehand pembahasaan topic b:laugh

thumbs

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You need to take into context and read what the poster said. A herc is not useful in squad play, especially in low and high level FF's where APS far outdamages hercs.

What part did I miss? Herc tanks while I prep. Should I have another pet tank while I soul degen, amp, ironwood? -really?

In solo play, without a doubt, still useful.

When most mobs are 2-3 hit kills and a scorpion could kill quicker?

There was a time a herc veno was one of the best DD's in the squad and can tank all but one boss in FF, but now in these instances obsolete.

Only if the Herc veno is relying on the Herc as a DD. A good veno can replace a BM in ff.

Veno mainly debuff and dmg (more dmg goes to higher APS veno using mag sword/high refined wep with phys shards) as role with "tank" in squad basically gone. Herc isn't nearly as useful, need to just get a high dmg pet higher than herc (there's probably about half a dozen of them), place claw, sac, bash, protect, strong, bless, any 4 of those, good to go without wasting 150m+ on a herc that not useful anymore in squads.

Sure; spend your time healing a DD pet when you could be debuffing.The boss battles shouldn't last long enough to matter if you got a dd pet or Herc: it does matter how fast you get the soul degen, amp, ironwood, etc on it, and how much time you're DD'ing rather than healing.If you don't have a Herc; the squad may as well have a wiz. A dd pet doesn't make up the difference of the extra healing it often requires: just in circumstances already mentioned. It's greater than 90% useful in squads and it's one of the things that keeps my veno competitive in coin earnings with Assassins. If you think a Herc to be overpriced: roll a Mystic. You may be able to convince a few squads that you're just as capable, but not me or the people that appreciate my veno.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

idk if you were being cute or not, but thumbs is obviously tweakz