Is Heavy Arcane still applicable in today's PWI?
Options
Nine_Lives - Raging Tide
Posts: 182 Arc User
As I near 90 i'm thinking of stocking up on gears needed for restating
Heavy arcane type(heavy armo,r arcane wep and accesories). It has been a dream of mine eversince i saw one of my veno mentors in PWPhilippines create one. But some of my fac mates say that it's an outdated model and the way to go today for PWI is an pure mage build with a herc. I need the opinion of my fellow veno aficionados on this thing,so I'll know if i'll scrap it or not. Thanks!
Heavy arcane type(heavy armo,r arcane wep and accesories). It has been a dream of mine eversince i saw one of my veno mentors in PWPhilippines create one. But some of my fac mates say that it's an outdated model and the way to go today for PWI is an pure mage build with a herc. I need the opinion of my fellow veno aficionados on this thing,so I'll know if i'll scrap it or not. Thanks!
Post edited by Nine_Lives - Raging Tide on
0
Comments
-
Your "fac mates" are morons. The only thing a caster has on an HA, HA/AA, or LA build as far as attributes and respective armor/ornaments are concerned is AOE damage and stronger/faster heals. Disregard their stupidity and play HA/AA if you so desire.0
-
You wanna know whats pro?
5.0 HA cleric. b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
your mom is pro[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
-
Hi: if you're aiming for TW, of PvP of some sort, I don't know what the situation on your server is, but at last on my server there is an influx of R9. R9 is really very difficult to kill unless you have the max DPH you can possibly have.
I don't see anyone wanting to do HA+AA mix veno for PvE, so I assume it's for PvP. You probably want to be a factor in TW for your faction, and want to be able to purge and amp priority targets without dying as you run in. You're focusing on the fact that a good phys DD class can thwart your efforts to fulfill your role in TW. You're forgetting that an R9 magic DD will be just as detrimental to you as an okay geared BM/archer.
From the time R9 comes into the argument, most of the old, working theories fall out. Now: with pure MAG build you have very high attack and very high magic defense, and all you need to work on is refines on your pdef neck and belt. With full Garnet (phys) sharding you can reach 6K-8K pdef in human form. And have around 8K-10K mdef. In fox form that will be around 10K pdef. It's more than enough to run in, purge and amp.
As an HA veno, your magic attack is capped at about 12K give or take about 1K, assuming +12 R8 wep. With pure mag build, your magic attack is capped at about 17K. See the big difference? Advantage #1 of pure MAG: if you do need to move into DD, and switch out of support in TW, you will be able to actually kill something quickly enough to have been an efficient factor.
Demon veno runs very fast. I run at 10m/s using Demon Fox form. You can kite phys classes more than adequately if you need to. You don't actually need that pdef from HA as much as you imagine. A BM using cloud sprint cannot catch a demon veno. However, you cannot kite a wizard. HA+AA mix veno will not give you any advantages with magic classes. The only solution to a Wizard attacking you is to kill him first with high DD attacks. You will need a lot of magic atk to do this. HA/AA mix veno cannot give you that. You need that pure mag attack advantage. R9 wizards are pretty common too. Pure mag build also gives you a boost in magic defense. Again, you cannot kite a mag DD opponent.
Third point is that your HA build would require you to leave VIT at 5 points and depend on refines. Pure mag with 5 VIT would be the same, so it's not like you're missing out on HP. If you're going HA, it's because you already know you're going to refine your gear to +10 or thereabout. HP is not a concern since you already know you're aiming for +10 on all gear. So the argument that you'll probably see someone else raise here "Pure MAG is glass cannon" won't apply to you. Unless you were going to go into HA build without knowing that you need VIT at 5, but in either case, now that you know, you know that when you refine, the result will be almost the same, and you'll be getting your HP from refines in both cases.
4th point is that again, it is possible to hit 6K-8K pdef in human form with pure MAG if you have a Warsong belt and Cube neck. Again, you were going into Ha build, so the assumption is that refining your gear isn't a problem for you, so getting +10 and higher pdef ornaments isn't going to be difficult for you. If you were going to refine, and you were going for +10 and higher on all gear, then it's not a problem for you to get a +10/11/12 warsong belt and cube neck, so you can achieve that 6K-8K pdef with the money you were going to spend on that +MAG tome that you were going to need for HA build.
In short, there is no need for you to go HA, and if you look at it and play with pwcalc, pure MAG stat build will allow you to get all the defense boosts of HA if you're willing to spend, AND you end up with VERY high attack. On the other hand, HA build will not afford you the attack of pure MAG, AND it also will only just approach the defenses of a well refined, well geared pure MAG AA also...not worth it. Additionally, you're looking for PvP, I assume again, so you want -channeling. AA gives you that more abundantly than HA.
If you're worried about BMs, purge them. If you're worried about Assassins, get Expel on genie and a nix. If you're worried about barbs, get AD on genie and a nix (nix pounce -> purge -> AD -> amp -> kite back -> nuke). If you're worried about seekers, purge them. If you're worried about wizards, then you shouldn't be considering HA build. If you're worried about...
You get my drift? Have fun, whichever way you choose to go though :O Good luck
I seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
One thing you overlook in your analysis is that the HA/AA veno can also wear arcane armor. Shard it with sapphires (you can switch to or mix with heavy for pdef, so you don't need garnets) and you can have higher mdef than a pure arcane. (Yes, an arcane build can shard with sapphires, too, but... why? It makes more sense for them to shard with garnets or citrines.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga0 -
There's no reason to go HA if you are going to be a pure caster. You basically made a tl;dr statement saying that magic build venos do more magic damage than HA build venos, which is a no-**** statement, but you clearly left out the fox aspect of "pvp" and "pve" alike, not to mention veno physical damage for an HA build. Your experience can basically be summed up as "caster" and "demon".Hi: if you're aiming for TW, of PvP of some sort, I don't know what the situation on your server is, but at last on my server there is an influx of R9. R9 is really very difficult to kill unless you have the max DPH you can possibly have.
I don't see anyone wanting to do HA+AA mix veno for PvE, so I assume it's for PvP. You probably want to be a factor in TW for your faction, and want to be able to purge and amp priority targets without dying as you run in. You're focusing on the fact that a good phys DD class can thwart your efforts to fulfill your role in TW. You're forgetting that an R9 magic DD will be just as detrimental to you as an okay geared BM/archer.
From the time R9 comes into the argument, most of the old, working theories fall out. Now: with pure MAG build you have very high attack and very high magic defense, and all you need to work on is refines on your pdef neck and belt. With full Garnet (phys) sharding you can reach 6K-8K pdef in human form. And have around 8K-10K mdef. In fox form that will be around 10K pdef. It's more than enough to run in, purge and amp.
As an HA veno, your magic attack is capped at about 12K give or take about 1K, assuming +12 R8 wep. With pure mag build, your magic attack is capped at about 17K. See the big difference? Advantage #1 of pure MAG: if you do need to move into DD, and switch out of support in TW, you will be able to actually kill something quickly enough to have been an efficient factor.
Demon veno runs very fast. I run at 10m/s using Demon Fox form. You can kite phys classes more than adequately if you need to. You don't actually need that pdef from HA as much as you imagine. A BM using cloud sprint cannot catch a demon veno. However, you cannot kite a wizard. HA+AA mix veno will not give you any advantages with magic classes. The only solution to a Wizard attacking you is to kill him first with high DD attacks. You will need a lot of magic atk to do this. HA/AA mix veno cannot give you that. You need that pure mag attack advantage. R9 wizards are pretty common too. Pure mag build also gives you a boost in magic defense. Again, you cannot kite a mag DD opponent.
Third point is that your HA build would require you to leave VIT at 5 points and depend on refines. Pure mag with 5 VIT would be the same, so it's not like you're missing out on HP. If you're going HA, it's because you already know you're going to refine your gear to +10 or thereabout. HP is not a concern since you already know you're aiming for +10 on all gear. So the argument that you'll probably see someone else raise here "Pure MAG is glass cannon" won't apply to you. Unless you were going to go into HA build without knowing that you need VIT at 5, but in either case, now that you know, you know that when you refine, the result will be almost the same, and you'll be getting your HP from refines in both cases.
4th point is that again, it is possible to hit 6K-8K pdef in human form with pure MAG if you have a Warsong belt and Cube neck. Again, you were going into Ha build, so the assumption is that refining your gear isn't a problem for you, so getting +10 and higher pdef ornaments isn't going to be difficult for you. If you were going to refine, and you were going for +10 and higher on all gear, then it's not a problem for you to get a +10/11/12 warsong belt and cube neck, so you can achieve that 6K-8K pdef with the money you were going to spend on that +MAG tome that you were going to need for HA build.
In short, there is no need for you to go HA, and if you look at it and play with pwcalc, pure MAG stat build will allow you to get all the defense boosts of HA if you're willing to spend, AND you end up with VERY high attack. On the other hand, HA build will not afford you the attack of pure MAG, AND it also will only just approach the defenses of a well refined, well geared pure MAG AA also...not worth it. Additionally, you're looking for PvP, I assume again, so you want -channeling. AA gives you that more abundantly than HA.
If you're worried about BMs, purge them. If you're worried about Assassins, get Expel on genie and a nix. If you're worried about barbs, get AD on genie and a nix (nix pounce -> purge -> AD -> amp -> kite back -> nuke). If you're worried about seekers, purge them. If you're worried about wizards, then you shouldn't be considering HA build. If you're worried about...
You get my drift? Have fun, whichever way you choose to go though :O Good luck0 -
About...95% of the people on the forum who post are human form casters, so forgive me for not considering a small group of people who play a venomancer as full phys melee fox form, and for not recommending it to someone for PvP when it didn't even cross my mind. If you want to recommend fox form melee only veno to the OP, then make your own post listing the pros of fox form melee veno.I seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
At these days, anything that can get 5 aps is applicable....
Even 5aps cleric, for as odd as it can be...Trolling since September 2008b:victory
Don't worry. I might stop trolling and say something useful... One day....0 -
I've done so on this forum several times before.About...95% of the people on the forum who post are human form casters, so forgive me for not considering a small group of people who play a venomancer as full phys melee fox form, and for not recommending it to someone for PvP when it didn't even cross my mind. If you want to recommend fox form melee only veno to the OP, then make your own post listing the pros of fox form melee veno.
There are some who do play full phys melee fox form, there are some who play human form and use fists, however, HA/AA is not of the extremes your brain seems to only function with. Having a decently refined weapon can make up quite substantially for the lack of magic damage losing out on a hundred or two magic ultimately causes, but even more than that, venomancers are gifted with fox form and melee mastery, extra bonuses to both for sage venomancers (who also have AOE purge -- TW?), not to mention being the only casting class to get spark bonus damage both to magic and physical attacks. As I've said to those who suggest playing fox only, it's stupid to limit yourself only to one style when venomancers have the best of both worlds easily available by going HA/AA (flexibility) or LA (flexibility+aps+crit). Even if one goes arcane, it would still be a bad idea to ignore fox form, or in your case ignore fox and sage.0 -
JanusZeal, why do you have to involve me in your HA obsession? I posted my piece, and went my way. Then you came and quoted me, and said something dumb. So I told you in a relatively nice way, that you had no real reason to quote me since me holding and supporting a view is my business and if you support another view, you should just propose it yourself separately.
Then you came back and somehow linked me to YOUR opinion again, and from the light skim of your post that I did, you imply that I'm narrow minded or something for not upholding YOUR view? Do you understand how weird that behaviour is? I will uphold MY view and ignore yours, obviously
If you want to recommend pure melee fox veno to the OP, you are free to do so by all means. I am not involved in that, so stop finding ways to weasel me into your posts.I seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
If you want to recommend pure melee fox veno to the OP, you are free to do so by all means. I am not involved in that, so stop finding ways to weasel me into your posts.
*facepalm* You do realize Heavy/Robe having the option to utilize fox form's melee capability does NOT mean it's the same category as a pure melee fox veno, right?0 -
Has everyone suddenly lost the ability to read? TrueKossy, I was dragged into a debate with someone who was talking about pure melee HA veno. That's why I was talking about (wait for it) pure melee fox form HA veno. Here: look at these snippets and see why I went in that direction:zbzkda wrote:If you want to recommend fox form melee only veno to the OP, then make your own post listing the pros of fox form melee veno.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote:I've done so on this forum several times before.
Etc...
As you can see, he was clearly trying to pull me into an argument to prove some point that went something like, "Pure melee fox form HA veno is a valid build". Fine by me. Make a post supporting it properly, and don't expect me to start making posts that consider your bias when I do not hold that bias myself. Of course I know that a veno wearing HA can play caster, TrueKossy...
But he was clearly not talking about that -_-I seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
Nice snippets... except for one tiny problem when it comes to the relevancy of this thread. (Frankly, I don't care about others right now and have no desire to go check through them all)Has everyone suddenly lost the ability to read? TrueKossy, I was dragged into a debate with someone who was talking about pure melee HA veno. That's why I was talking about (wait for it) pure melee fox form HA veno. Here: look at these snippets and see why I went in that direction:
Note what's in bold. Nothing was said about being a pure melee fox build, merely that you ignored the fox form aspect and were replying as if all there was to venos was the casting aspect... which is an accurate statement. If all you compare is casting, a Heavy/Robee is obviously going to fall behind a pure arcane. However, it's when you combine their versatility and ability to utilize casting AND melee from fox that they're able to shine.JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »There's no reason to go HA if you are going to be a pure caster. You basically made a tl;dr statement saying that magic build venos do more magic damage than HA build venos, which is a no-**** statement, but you clearly left out the fox aspect of "pvp" and "pve" alike, not to mention veno physical damage for an HA build. Your experience can basically be summed up as "caster" and "demon".
Your rebuttal to him, on the other hand, was:
Hey look at that! You're the one who first brought up a pure melee fox-only venomancer in this thread as your generalization of heavy/robe... hence my facepalm.About...95% of the people on the forum who post are human form casters, so forgive me for not considering a small group of people who play a venomancer as full phys melee fox form, and for not recommending it to someone for PvP when it didn't even cross my mind. If you want to recommend fox form melee only veno to the OP, then make your own post listing the pros of fox form melee veno.
This would be great were your "snippets" less misleading. The fact of the matter is that you were the one to bring up a melee only venomancer and even in the post you used as an example, he later went on to continue to showcase flexibility as a major aspect in what he said. If you're going to be talking about the flexibility of a venomancer, then "pure" no longer becomes an option as it's a limit to said flexibility. So, frankly, the one beginning that argument in this thread would be... well... you. Again, hence the facepalm.As you can see, he was clearly trying to pull me into an argument to prove some point that went something like, "Pure melee fox form HA veno is a valid build". Fine by me. Make a post supporting it properly, and don't expect me to start making posts that consider your bias when I do not hold that bias myself. Of course I know that a veno wearing HA can play caster, TrueKossy...
But he was clearly not talking about that -_-0 -
EDIT: No wait, nvm, TrueKossy's second post acutally makes sense. I was the first to explicitly mention pure melee veno, though Janus clearly was talking about it. b:avoidI seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
EDIT: No wait, nvm, TrueKossy's second post acutally makes sense. I was the first to explicitly mention pure melee veno, though Janus clearly was talking about it. b:avoid
Yeah.
And for the record, now that you've clarified yourself (and I should have added this in my last post) I agree with you in that I wouldn't really consider a pure melee heavy armored veno with much thought. A Heavy/Robe who utilizes interval gear when the situation warrants? Sure. But pure melee all the time? Nuh-uhz.0 -
here u go hun that is my goal and best combination between heavy and rank 9. i hope it helpsb:cute[SIGPIC]sometimes love hurts and baby i love you A LOT[/SIGPIC]0
-
If you want to recommend pure melee fox veno to the OP, you are free to do so by all means. I am not involved in that, so stop finding ways to weasel me into your posts.Has everyone suddenly lost the ability to read? TrueKossy, I was dragged into a debate with someone who was talking about pure melee HA veno. That's why I was talking about (wait for it) pure melee fox form HA veno. Here: look at these snippets and see why I went in that direction:
WRONG. Read again kiddo:HA/AA is not of the extremes your brain seems to only function withAs I've said to those who suggest playing fox only, it's stupid to limit yourself only to one style when venomancers have the best of both worlds easily available by going HA/AA (flexibility) or LA (flexibility+aps+crit)
You must be of the religious type who believe the more you repeat something, the more true it becomes.
Not a single person here is advocating to playing "pure melee fox veno". Beautiful straw man though, unfortunately, it just shows you have a complete inability to read anything that doesn't agree with you, not to mention don't have a clue as to how to play a venomancer. GTFO and let people who know how to play the class actually give advice.
Again, to the OP, magic and melee are what makes a veno so well rounded. Don't limit yourself to one type of play, or you might be brain-dead like the poster that responded to me and wind up giving unqualified advice.0 -
-
I'm going to just keep replying until this gets so out of hand the topic needs to get locked. You irritate me with your utter stupidity.Janysomething wrote:HA/AA is not of the extremes your brain seems to only function with
What does that even mean? As in, in English, if I interpreted that by the rules of English, what does it mean? It's incoherent. It's gibberish. You make absolutely no sense. Go learn English.Janywhatever wrote:As I've said to those who suggest playing fox only, it's stupid to limit yourself only to one style when venomancers have the best of both worlds easily available by going HA/AA (flexibility) or LA (flexibility+aps+crit)
Veno can be caster or fox, or whatever mix to whatever degree while wearing either HA or LA. You aren't making any sense. You can have a caster HA. HA/AA is not "flexibility", it is a limitation. You CRIPPLE your magic attack to have supposed "survivability" when AA can give you the same Physical and Magical defense as HA veno. All you gained is a different set of armour and lower attack. It's stupid. I DO NOT ADVOCATE HA VENO. I will not at any time ever do so either. GTFO with your FAIL BUILD.
Show me ONE pwcalc with an HA veno which has 10K+ mdef, and 8k+ pdef in human form, AND also has 14K-18K magic attack. Or else SHUT UP, because HA is inferior since you CANNOT regain the attack you lose due to less points put into MAG. Or who knows, produce a pwcalc with 10K+ pdef in human form and 8K+ mdef if you want. Just make sure that the magic attack value is at the standard of pure MAG AA veno.
When you realize that HA veno is INHERENTLY inferior in attack, you can SHUT UP and STOP telling new venos to use a *** build. Who knows though, maybe you'll come back and tell me that "Attack is not important", or you'll say, "I'm aiming for melee fox damage, so magic attack is not important". In either case you wind up looking stupid because argument #1 just makes you look dumb by itself, and argument #2 will prove that you were talking about melee veno.
Go go go, it's lose-lose for you and your STUPID build. I hereby assert and maintain that it is impossible for HA veno to end up with unbuffed attack values paralleling MAG AA veno. I also assert that it is however fully possible for a MAG AA veno to match the defense of ANY HA veno, and ALSO come out with FAR GREATER attack, and I proclaim this truth until somebody links me a pwcalc with an HA veno whose attack range is CLOSE TO 13K-18K. Let me hear you talk stupidness now and weasel out of it with "flexibility".Januswhatever wrote:or you might be brain-dead like the poster that responded to me and wind up giving unqualified advice.
If you look closely, I ignored you completely in my first post, then refrained from quoting you for 2 posts straight after that, then loosely quoted you while engaging in another debate altogether before eventually directly addressing you with a quote.I seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
Show me ONE pwcalc with an HA veno which has 10K+ mdef, and 8k+ pdef in human form, AND also has 14K-18K magic attack. Or else SHUT UP, because HA is inferior since you CANNOT regain the attack you lose due to less points put into MAG. Or who knows, produce a pwcalc with 10K+ pdef in human form and 8K+ mdef if you want. Just make sure that the magic attack value is at the standard of pure MAG AA veno.
When you realize that HA veno is INHERENTLY inferior in attack, you can SHUT UP and STOP telling new venos to use a *** build. Who knows though, maybe you'll come back and tell me that "Attack is not important", or you'll say, "I'm aiming for melee fox damage, so magic attack is not important". In either case you wind up looking stupid because argument #1 just makes you look dumb by itself, and argument #2 will prove that you were talking about melee veno.
See, this is where I have to disagree and call you out on being stupid/closed minded. Pure arcane veno is OBVIOUSLY going to have more mag attack than any other kind of veno. Nobody ever debated this. You're the only one even bringing this up as a problem and the fact of the matter is, magic defense charms make high magic attack a must for those who have NO OTHER MEANS OF ATTACK (aka pure magic builds). A Heavy/Robe veno, on the other hand, can intertwine their casting with melee to use the best of both worlds. You'll still be able to have a fairly high magic attack, and you'll be able to swap around gears as the situation warrants.
Considering that the goal of Heavy/Robe is higher survivability which they KNOWINGLY trade for a bit of damage, I'd say they do just fine, thanks.
http://pwcalc.com/780b8ff8464ea57a
vs the pure build of http://pwcalc.com/8582b6be4894932e
HP: 17.1k vs 12.8k (33% more HP in favor of HA. Yay more survivability!)
MP: 6k vs 9.4k ((50% more MP in favor of pure... but honestly who gives a **** about MP? Eat a pot and be done with it. lololol)
P.def: 11k vs 4.5k (Almost TRIPLE the phys defense for the heavy/robe! Even MORE survivability vs the phys classes more likely to attack a veno!)
M.def: 10k vs 15.5k (50% more mag defense in favor of pure arcane... except most of the damage you'll take PvPwise will be coming from phys attacks and in PvE, the 10k unbuffed of heavy/robe is enough for them to survive... AND Heavy/Robe could always just... you know... put on a set of arcane armor for practically the same mag defense but pure arcane can't do the same? herpaderp)
Average phys DPS: 13.5k vs 7045 (Almost DOUBLE the phys DPS and this is unbuffed + without using full interval gear + unsparked. So on anything with high magic defense, magical immunity, wood immunity, or spamming the **** outta mag defense charms, Heavy/Robe has a far superior melee option while pure arcane is... well... screwed over royally)
Average m.atk: 11.9k vs 17k (Not even a 50% average increase for the pure arcane. It's still a large difference but for reasons above in Phys, not as HUGE AND GAME CHANGING as you make it out to be.)
Overall, it's obvious the heavy/arcane has greater survivability and flexibility... and pure magic has higher m.atk.... and the ENTIRE reason people go Heavy/Robe is for the flexibility. Oh and on top of that, the calc I posted for Heavy/Robe does have room for a few improvements so... yeah.
tl;dr: Quit being ignorant and constantly arguing about only m.atk. Saying "Pure X has more damage than non-pure X" is an obvious no-****ing-duh statement. If all you do is focus on damage and not other aspects of a character, you set yourself up to be a walking 1-shot... and someone that gets focus fired from dealing high damage while being squishy is completely useless compared to someone who can be alive long enough to actually deal some damage.0 -
never thought things could get this heated in the discussion...b:shocked
but i just decided that i may go on with my HA/AA build.
I'll follow the advice of one of the posters here that suggests to bring along another set of AA and MDef accs just in case the sitch calls for itb:pleased and mix in some Mdef shards in my HA...my barb mentor just got pwned by a veno cause he died from poison and a well timed crit from a LA veno. He's 100 and the veno was 95 btw...no charms involved
And I will choose demon for the summer sprint and bramble
Thanks for the advice, I will go back to this thread once in a while0 -
Janus: Right, so I looked for the pwcalc link in your whole array of stupidness and I found those two pieces of trash, which prove nothing, so now SHUT UP. I didn't even read you rpost and just looked for the links, and look at the profound stupidity I saw. I bet you also defended those two calcs by saying that "attack is not important", or "HA is about flexibility". UTTER nonsense. Where is the flexibility if you end up having only as much defense as another build, and LESS attack than that build? By the very nature of the results, the other build is superior.
OP: Well, careful there, crits aren't well timed XD they're chance lol. The only way you can really say a crit wasn't chanced is if you deliberately built your char to have 25-30% or more crit; at that point the occurence of a crit is "within your calculations" so to speak, so it's expected. Good luck and have fun with your veno :OI seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
OP: Well, careful there, crits aren't well timed XD they're chance lol. The only way you can really say a crit wasn't chanced is if you deliberately built your char to have 25-30% or more crit; at that point the occurence of a crit is "within your calculations" so to speak, so it's expected. Good luck and have fun with your veno :O
Gotta agree with this. Crits are nice and all, but you can't really rely on them until you surpass 20% crit. Granted, since you're going demon, you can use demon fox wallop to change this (20% chance for all hits in the next 5 seconds to crit), but you'll still have to be rather good to pull it off and switch to caster + get the attack in before the buff fades. Assuming you aren't up against an arcane and just follow up with another melee attack if you do choose to go heavy/robe, of course.0 -
Actually, Solandri has shown in this post that a heavy fox veno can out-DPS a pure mag caster veno. Sure, the caster will out-DPH, but it's not all about DPH. And a heavy/arcane build is obviously not trying to maximize matk, so forget that red herring, eh?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga0 -
Janus: Right, so I looked for the pwcalc link in your whole array of stupidness and I found those two pieces of trash, which prove nothing, so now SHUT UP. I didn't even read you rpost and just looked for the links, and look at the profound stupidity I saw. I bet you also defended those two calcs by saying that "attack is not important", or "HA is about flexibility". UTTER nonsense. Where is the flexibility if you end up having only as much defense as another build, and LESS attack than that build? By the very nature of the results, the other build is superior.
You really should read what others have to say before you make comments like that. Truekossy never stated that attack was not important and gave a few points as to why someone might choose an HA build.
Both builds have their advantages. It's a question of what the veno wants out of his/her build.Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Actually, Solandri has shown in this post that a heavy fox veno can out-DPS a pure mag caster veno.
Gotta love Solandri. o.o
Thanks for the link. Pretty interesting stuff.0 -
Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Actually, Solandri has shown in this post that a heavy fox veno can out-DPS a pure mag caster veno. Sure, the caster will out-DPH, but it's not all about DPH. And a heavy/arcane build is obviously not trying to maximize matk, so forget that red herring, eh?
Any melee DD had better be able to raw out DD a caster DD 1-1 because casters don't have to run up to their target, or take hits. Heavy venos just plain shouldn't be compared to AA venos: they should be compared to other melee classes to determine if they're effective as melee. Pure mag can even out dps mag by using fox form. -It doesn't make fox form the best choice to commonly use. Venos lack many skills other melee classes have like Blood Paint, Stuns, multiple phys aoes, etc. Is the dps as good when stunning, running up to mob, or debuffing (Ironwood doesn't slow down dmg by applying it)?truekossy wrote:Heavy/Robe veno, on the other hand, can intertwine their casting with melee to use the best of both worlds.
There's a certain point some of us have reached where we can do some pretty amazing things with our toons after sinking a fortune into them (can be acquired in game). A non pure is never going to have the best of both worlds. At best it will be mediocre at both. With 560 mag, you could take a Rank 8 pataka with 2 sapphire gems and still not replenish a Lv.102 herc's entire HP in one cast. You probably won't be 1-2 shotting huge groups of mobs in the OHT maps any time soon. You'll be limited in many ways. On the other hand, HA may be better at TT farming with a group, but some will be disappointed that your pet can't tank anything but Djin.0 -
Fenrina - Heavens Tear wrote: »You really should read what others have to say before you make comments like that. Truekossy never stated that attack was not important and gave a few points as to why someone might choose an HA build.
I was talking to Janus lol >.>I seriously wonder: people who don't RPK, if you play the board game "Sorry!" and you roll the dice so that you land on an opponents piece and send it back to the beginning, do you sincerely apologize and ask everyone if you can have a do-over roll so you can give your victim another chance? It's a god damn game..
--LongKnife0 -
Any melee DD had better be able to raw out DD a caster DD 1-1 because casters don't have to run up to their target, or take hits. Heavy venos just plain shouldn't be compared to AA venos: they should be compared to other melee classes to determine if they're effective as melee. Pure mag can even out dps mag by using fox form. -It doesn't make fox form the best choice to commonly use. Venos lack many skills other melee classes have like Blood Paint, Stuns, multiple phys aoes, etc. Is the dps as good when stunning, running up to mob, or debuffing (Ironwood doesn't slow down dmg by applying it)?
Foxform has 2 phys AOEs, AOE debuff (myriad rainbow) and AOE purge if sage. Caster form has only 2 AOEs. Foxform has a freeze that lasts much longer than lucky's stun.There's a certain point some of us have reached where we can do some pretty amazing things with our toons after sinking a fortune into them (can be acquired in game). A non pure is never going to have the best of both worlds. At best it will be mediocre at both. With 560 mag, you could take a Rank 8 pataka with 2 sapphire gems and still not replenish a Lv.102 herc's entire HP in one cast. You probably won't be 1-2 shotting huge groups of mobs in the OHT maps any time soon. You'll be limited in many ways. On the other hand, HA may be better at TT farming with a group, but some will be disappointed that your pet can't tank anything but Djin.
Um... my current main is an 87 heavy/arcane, and was herc tanking all the medium mode 3-1 bosses except Djinscream in her low 80s. (Herc isn't the best choice for Djinscream, she pulled out her varicose scorpion for that. I haven't been in high mode yet, and know that some bosses you just can't herc tank.)
Solandri has stated that his HA/AA veno can fully heal her herc in one cast. Stop with the posting from ignorance, okay?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga0 -
Any melee DD had better be able to raw out DD a caster DD 1-1 because casters don't have to run up to their target, or take hits. Heavy venos just plain shouldn't be compared to AA venos: they should be compared to other melee classes to determine if they're effective as melee. Pure mag can even out dps mag by using fox form. -It doesn't make fox form the best choice to commonly use. Venos lack many skills other melee classes have like Blood Paint, Stuns, multiple phys aoes, etc. Is the dps as good when stunning, running up to mob, or debuffing (Ironwood doesn't slow down dmg by applying it)?
HA venos should be compared to the other casting melees? lol
maybe HA venos could be comparable to seekers since they cast and melee, idk, couldnt get into seeker.
There's a certain point some of us have reached where we can do some pretty amazing things with our toons after sinking a fortune into them (can be acquired in game). A non pure is never going to have the best of both worlds. At best it will be mediocre at both. With 560 mag, you could take a Rank 8 pataka with 2 sapphire gems and still not replenish a Lv.102 herc's entire HP in one cast. You probably won't be 1-2 shotting huge groups of mobs in the OHT maps any time soon. You'll be limited in many ways. On the other hand, HA may be better at TT farming with a group, but some will be disappointed that your pet can't tank anything but Djin.
is anyone still using a veno to farm TT?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »Foxform has 2 phys AOEs, AOE debuff (myriad rainbow) and AOE purge if sage. Caster form has only 2 AOEs. Foxform has a freeze that lasts much longer than lucky's stun.
Myriad isn't reliable, and Befuddling Mist is AoE.Solandri has stated that his HA/AA veno can fully heal her herc in one cast. Stop with the posting from ignorance, okay?
Is Solandri Lv. 102? Stop being a stupid bi0tch, okay?0
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.8K PWI
- 689 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 208 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk