Communication with the CM

Waterfal - Sanctuary

I noticed in various topics that there's a lack of communication with our community manager. Yes you, frankie.

He doesn't seem to reply to topics like the issue with medal of glory, he did give us the info that they were going to give a different way to get them. However, there's no recent updates on it.

Another example...
There's a topic that has been moved to the suggestion box about changing the rules for .ini edits, 1 reply that didn't even really make sense or gave a good reason. Even though the community keeps asking for answers there's no replies. However, he does edit posts in there, so we know that he sees our posts.

These are just 2 examples, but overall, there's a lack of communication.
Right now frankie is someone who moves, edits, deletes or locks posts, and posts when there's maintenance. He doesn't seem to be a part of the community.

I understand(and a lot of others do so too, I'm sure) that frankie has limited things he can/is allowed to say. However, at least give a reply that you can't say certain stuff, or give updates about stuff.

Anyway, if you agree with this, do post here. I think it's a shame that there's such bad communication atm

buttercupcruella

Yea... but... yea...b:surrender

Elendirah - Sanctuary

Why would you want to communicate with them? They're going to lie to you anyway. They're not your friends, they're not here to help you. They're just here to protect a company that keeps **** you over and over again. Examples :

When the medals were removed and Frankie blatantly lied about the real reason. Even though he's the so-called "Community manager" he has never discussed that major issue with us.
Still about the removing of those medals, when a player made a post naming and explaining the law PWI had broken, explaining how you could try to get your money back. Only a few of you had time to read that post I guess. His point was obviously valid because 1. the thread got closed immediately by FuzzyWuzz so you couldn't talk about it. 2. that GM deleted the post so you couldn't see it. What that player had written wasn't insulting in any way. The only reason why it got deleted was so you wouldn't be able to use it against PWI. BTW that player disappeared since, they probably had him deported to a Chinese prison...

Stop being gullible kids please, you're making it so easy for them.

Waterfal - Sanctuary

I'm not saying we don't get screwed over, I'm not saying we're not being lied to, I'm not saying they're our friends. No idea where you got that from, but stop putting me words in the mouth I didn't say. b:bye

I don't think frankie CAN discuss such stuff with us even without losing his job. Just like closing that topic is is most likely part of his job at the company.

Ah well, I'm just going to throw this example in. Remember Spoons? He was actually active on the forums, listened to the community, forwarded stuff to the devs and kept us updated.
I'm just wondering why frankie isn't doing such stuff. After all, he is the community manager, it's his damn job to communicate with the community.

Feito - Dreamweaver

Not just the CM but all of them really. When I first came to the forums, it seemed that the mods interacted with the community and had their own personalities. Now it seems that they only talk amongst themselves and copypasta stuff.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Waterfal - Sanctuary wrote: »

Remember Spoons? He was actually active on the forums, listened to the community, forwarded stuff to the devs and kept us updated.

Why do you think he isn't here any more?

You just answered your own question entirely. This thread is now useless, you got your answer. b:bye

Minimus_ - Sanctuary

This is a company that wants to make money and they have people employed for that. Ima not sure if a GM is deciding alone or who is but it is their job to represent the companys interests what isn't always (nicely said) the customers interest.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Elendirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would you want to communicate with them? They're going to lie to you anyway. They're not your friends, they're not here to help you. They're just here to protect a company that keeps **** you over and over again. Examples :

When the medals were removed and Frankie blatantly lied about the real reason. Even though he's the so-called "Community manager" he has never discussed that major issue with us.
Still about the removing of those medals, when a player made a post naming and explaining the law PWI had broken, explaining how you could try to get your money back. Only a few of you had time to read that post I guess. His point was obviously valid because 1. the thread got closed immediately by FuzzyWuzz so you couldn't talk about it. 2. that GM deleted the post so you couldn't see it. What that player had written wasn't insulting in any way. The only reason why it got deleted was so you wouldn't be able to use it against PWI. BTW that player disappeared since, they probably had him deported to a Chinese prison...

Stop being gullible kids please, you're making it so easy for them.

Question -- why would PWI allow you to post how to take money back, especially if it was related to chargeback, on their very own forums? The idea that they would or should is surprisingly.. well, in the case of this forum, unsurprisingly.. stupid. Just because a random player on a random forum suggests PWI broke a law doesn't mean they did merely because it was deleted. It means you obviously cannot discuss how to sue PWI on their very own forums. Would I allow your discussion in my house with your friends or other people who do business with me about how to sue me and take money? Not a chance in hell. No one I know would. No one with any brain cells in their head would. Somehow PWI is devoid of this reasoning due to random forum member's assertion.

PWI already does enough to give the middle finger to their player base. Certainly you aren't helping players that actually try to send a legitimate message about valid things like lack of content and lack of fixing bugs when you're busy posting conspiracy nonsense.

ChloeAgave - Archosaur

Waterfal - Sanctuary wrote: »

I noticed in various topics that there's a lack of communication with our community manager. Yes you, frankie.

He doesn't seem to reply to topics like the issue with medal of glory, he did give us the info that they were going to give a different way to get them. However, there's no recent updates on it.

Another example...
There's a topic that has been moved to the suggestion box about changing the rules for .ini edits, 1 reply that didn't even really make sense or gave a good reason. Even though the community keeps asking for answers there's no replies. However, he does edit posts in there, so we know that he sees our posts.

These are just 2 examples, but overall, there's a lack of communication.
Right now frankie is someone who moves, edits, deletes or locks posts, and posts when there's maintenance. He doesn't seem to be a part of the community.

I understand(and a lot of others do so too, I'm sure) that frankie has limited things he can/is allowed to say. However, at least give a reply that you can't say certain stuff, or give updates about stuff.

Anyway, if you agree with this, do post here. I think it's a shame that there's such bad communication atm

How many updates did we get about what we were going to get for the DQ nerf we got? One, maybe two before DQ Points were added? All Frankie said was that they were negotiating with the Devs, and people still complained about him saying even that. Why would you expect him to give updates about what is basically nothing new on the medals front?

The same applies to that topic about the .ini files. Do you expect Frankie to go in and say "I agree with you all, they need to change this!" Hell, the only reason that has been a big deal lately is because of the change to the multi-client rule, and that happened because the client itself changed to allow it to be done with no third-party programs or editing of the files themselves on the part of the player. It's simple, the ToS say you cannot edit the game's files, and the client hasn't been changed to where you can make the changes people want without editing the files themselves. Nothing has changed, and if he has been talking with the Devs about this, it means that either nothing has changed in it, or nothing has that can be mentioned as of yet.

The problem is not a lack of communication, it is that the players want to be spoiled. Everyone looks at it from their own perspective, which is fine, but no one tries to understand the other side of it. This isn't just something Frankie can do at will for people, this is his job. It pays his bills and puts food on his table, so why would he do anything that might put it in jeopardy to ease the minds of the players? If he can't say anything about a particular subject, chances are he also isn't allowed to say he can't talk about it either. When I worked at a store, was I allowed to talk about certain things that went on in there? No, not without losing my job. Was I allowed to tell people who asked about those things that I couldn't talk about it? No, I had to either remain silent or plead ignorance.

Elendirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would you want to communicate with them? They're going to lie to you anyway. They're not your friends, they're not here to help you. They're just here to protect a company that keeps **** you over and over again. Examples :

When the medals were removed and Frankie blatantly lied about the real reason. Even though he's the so-called "Community manager" he has never discussed that major issue with us.
Still about the removing of those medals, when a player made a post naming and explaining the law PWI had broken, explaining how you could try to get your money back. Only a few of you had time to read that post I guess. His point was obviously valid because 1. the thread got closed immediately by FuzzyWuzz so you couldn't talk about it. 2. that GM deleted the post so you couldn't see it. What that player had written wasn't insulting in any way. The only reason why it got deleted was so you wouldn't be able to use it against PWI. BTW that player disappeared since, they probably had him deported to a Chinese prison...

Stop being gullible kids please, you're making it so easy for them.

If I told you that there was a black hole the size of New York hanging out just on the rim of our solar system, what would most people say? They would say to cite my source for that.

I'm going to say the same. Cite your source that proves Frankie lied, cite your source that proves PWI had broken any law regarding those medals.

Note: having a source does not legitimize your claims if the source isn't reliable. b:chuckle

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

LOL at that post^

DodoBear - Harshlands

ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »

How many updates did we get about what we were going to get for the DQ nerf we got? One, maybe two before DQ Points were added? All Frankie said was that they were negotiating with the Devs, and people still complained about him saying even that. Why would you expect him to give updates about what is basically nothing new on the medals front?

The same applies to that topic about the .ini files. Do you expect Frankie to go in and say "I agree with you all, they need to change this!" Hell, the only reason that has been a big deal lately is because of the change to the multi-client rule, and that happened because the client itself changed to allow it to be done with no third-party programs or editing of the files themselves on the part of the player. It's simple, the ToS say you cannot edit the game's files, and the client hasn't been changed to where you can make the changes people want without editing the files themselves. Nothing has changed, and if he has been talking with the Devs about this, it means that either nothing has changed in it, or nothing has that can be mentioned as of yet.

The problem is not a lack of communication, it is that the players want to be spoiled. Everyone looks at it from their own perspective, which is fine, but no one tries to understand the other side of it. This isn't just something Frankie can do at will for people, this is his job. It pays his bills and puts food on his table, so why would he do anything that might put it in jeopardy to ease the minds of the players? If he can't say anything about a particular subject, chances are he also isn't allowed to say he can't talk about it either. When I worked at a store, was I allowed to talk about certain things that went on in there? No, not without losing my job. Was I allowed to tell people who asked about those things that I couldn't talk about it? No, I had to either remain silent or plead ignorance.



If I told you that there was a black hole the size of New York hanging out just on the rim of our solar system, what would most people say? They would say to cite my source for that.

I'm going to say the same. Cite your source that proves Frankie lied, cite your source that proves PWI had broken any law regarding those medals.

Note: having a source does not legitimize your claims if the source isn't reliable. b:chuckle

Just to note, that since release of the game, we could multiclient without any 3rd-party programs the same way that we do now.

Myralis - Sanctuary

DodoBear - Harshlands wrote: »

Just to note, that since release of the game, we could multiclient without any 3rd-party programs the same way that we do now.

Same goes for .ini editing.


Also... theres so much flaming but I think the real point waterfal wants to make is different.
This is not about frankie saying 'oh id like to see it too.' Nope, both water and me know very well he couldn't do this.
It is about finally getting a response. Even if it a 'No sorry, wont happen'. Hell I could accept that, as annoying it would be. Best thing to happen would be that it gets forwarded to the people who can decide over it of course.

But seeing a community manager edits posts in this thread and so many people asking for an answer and getting ignored... feels like an insult. Damnit youre a community manager to communicate with the playerbase. Even if its saying no. Obviously visiting the thread but ignoring the rest is just... like waterfal said: not doing your job, sorry frankie.

Waterfal - Sanctuary

Myralis - Sanctuary wrote: »

Same goes for .ini editing.


Also... theres so much flaming but I think the real point waterfal wants to make is different.
This is not about frankie saying 'oh id like to see it too.' Nope, both water and me know very well he couldn't do this.
It is about finally getting a response. Even if it a 'No sorry, wont happen'. Hell I could accept that, as annoying it would be. Best thing to happen would be that it gets forwarded to the people who can decide over it of course.

But seeing a community manager edits posts in this thread and so many people asking for an answer and getting ignored... feels like an insult. Damnit youre a community manager to communicate with the playerbase. Even if its saying no. Obviously visiting the thread but ignoring the rest is just... like waterfal said: not doing your job, sorry frankie.

That is exactly what I'm trying to point out. I'm not expecting frankie(or anyone) to say yes and amen to everything that is suggested.
However, no reply at all is a slap in the face.

Ceiba - Sanctuary

The main problem with frankie is not that he lies, or that make excuses on the spot, the main problem with him is that he does nothing. He is powerless, we know that so far, but at least myself, I expect him to be in contact with the devs/admins or whoever is in charge of this game, and either tell the community their answers (THE REAL ONES), or give us real dates about serious issues, but all frankie does is remain silent and tell us that it will be changed SOMEDAY, then go MIA for weeks... a regular moderator could do that.


When somebody spends 1k+ dollars on the game to get general summer tokens for R9, and then decides to grind for the medals, if you remove those medals 3 weeks later from the game without any warning, this guy is royally screwed, not only he paid 1k+ dollars on a game with is hard to justify by itself, but on top of that he did not even got what he wanted, and PWI does not even reply/refund about his money lost, now tell me how this is not a scam of PWI??


MMORPG are community driven, this kind of game needs constant interaction with the ppl that play this game. It's because of them that the game keeps going, in any other MMORPG that I have played when a class is overpowered or a mechanic is broken, you KNOW that there is a nerf coming for them, because GMs/admins are active and aware of their own game, and keeping a game balanced is part of their jobs, in PWI however this does not seem the case, why? because they dot give a **** about community or balance, all they care about is money.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Waterfal - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not saying we don't get screwed over, I'm not saying we're not being lied to, I'm not saying they're our friends. No idea where you got that from, but stop putting me words in the mouth I didn't say. b:bye

I don't think frankie CAN discuss such stuff with us even without losing his job. Just like closing that topic is is most likely part of his job at the company.

Ah well, I'm just going to throw this example in. Remember Spoons? He was actually active on the forums, listened to the community, forwarded stuff to the devs and kept us updated.
I'm just wondering why frankie isn't doing such stuff. After all, he is the community manager, it's his damn job to communicate with the community.

Spoons was fired because he actually engaged the community. frankie replaced him because he's a "yes man". His main job is to shut the community out, so that his superiors can continue to **** out stupidity at an hourly rate.

Arganoth - Lost City

From my perspective, it looks like the PW team has downgraded in size severely. Thus, why Frankie is doing the work of forum mods, GMs as well as the CM job. In my experience as a GM for two large MMOs, they are rarely paid (sometimes the CM receives a small monthly stipend) and over-worked. This predicament always leads to the few GM/CMs who remain with PW feeling unappreciated and overworked; thus they stop volunteering their free time because they realize that basically, they're being used. This is one reason why I'm rapidly losing interest in the GM positions I've had for two years now. The scary thing is, it seems like this sort of cycle happens everywhere. Every current MMO production company knows all too well that instead of paying people to do work for their game, they can simply recruit volunteers who will blindly put in 20+40 hours a week of work for free.

Pre-production the support team is huge, has dev support and a little bit of a budget to help make the launch and updates go smoothly. Now that PW is 3 years old, the team has moved on to other titles and we are left with the rotting corpse of the former support team.

The community manager of PW should be paid, and should be supported by PWI to have the team needed to assist a playerbase the size that PW has.


So, I do agree with the OP that we need to see more of frankie; however, I doubt they have much of an incentive to work their butts off for free.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

Arganoth - Lost City wrote: »

From my perspective, it looks like the PW team has downgraded in size severely. Thus, why Frankie is doing the work of forum mods, GMs as well as the CM job. In my experience as a GM for two large MMOs, they are rarely paid (sometimes the CM receives a small monthly stipend) and over-worked. This predicament always leads to the few GM/CMs who remain with PW feeling unappreciated and overworked; thus they stop volunteering their free time because they realize that basically, they're being used. This is one reason why I'm rapidly losing interest in the GM positions I've had for two years now. The scary thing is, it seems like this sort of cycle happens everywhere. Every current MMO production company knows all too well that instead of paying people to do work for their game, they can simply recruit volunteers who will blindly put in 20+40 hours a week of work for free.

Pre-production the support team is huge, has dev support and a little bit of a budget to help make the launch and updates go smoothly. Now that PW is 3 years old, the team has moved on to other titles and we are left with the rotting corpse of the former support team.

The community manager of PW should be paid, and should be supported by PWI to have the team needed to assist a playerbase the size that PW has.


So, I do agree with the OP that we need to see more of frankie; however, I doubt they have much of an incentive to work their butts off for free.

Wow, if all this is true, I think I understand Frankie's pain now

FRANKIE I SO SORRY FOR ALL THE THINGS BAD I THOUT BOUT YUUUUU

lizrau

GMs might as well not exist, all they do is lock/close threads, lol.

fuzzywuzz

So much negativity makes Fuzzy sad. b:sad

lizrau

If negativity makes Fuzzy sad, PW should do some more positive things to this game, then the players wouldn't have any negativity Though of course you can't please everyone, it'd be a damn start.

SaiKun - Harshlands

Negativity has to radiate from somewhere. Not doing anything doesn't seem to be helping the problem PWI is facing. This topic may be a dead horse, but it is one for a reason. Players aren't happy and they try to let the company know, and the company simply ignores it.

chaoticshelly

Feito - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not just the CM but all of them really. When I first came to the forums, it seemed that the mods interacted with the community and had their own personalities. Now it seems that they only talk amongst themselves and copypasta stuff.

Pfffft that is so not true. b:cry

Waterfal - Sanctuary

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

So much negativity makes Fuzzy sad. b:sad

Well it is sad, isn't it... that the community manager hardly communicates....

Myralis - Sanctuary

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

Pfffft that is so not true. b:cry

Looks like it though...
Last mod I've seen been active frequently and actually talking in a while was Grim.
But ya, hes gone... since then its silent.. from both sides, CM and mods.

Kinda sad to feel pretty much left alone here..

SunriseWind - Heavens Tear

some of us who used to read Spoons blog think he might have died in a car wreck...one day he was posting, the next Shnuggles, another GM, posted about the two of them being in a car crash, and Spoons was 'hurt'. thing is, Spoons never came back after that crash, and no one in the PWE will tell us if he is ok even. they have told us about others who have just left the company....but never a word about Spoons.

ok, Frankie....what happened to Spoons?

Waterfal - Sanctuary wrote: »

closing that topic is is most likely part of his job at the company.

Ah well, I'm just going to throw this example in. Remember Spoons? He was actually active on the forums, listened to the community, forwarded stuff to the devs and kept us updated.
I'm just wondering why frankie isn't doing such stuff. After all, he is the community manager, it's his damn job to communicate with the community.

lizrau

I miss Grim. Luckily I'm in his faction!! WIN

chaoticshelly

Myralis - Sanctuary wrote: »

Looks like it though...
Last mod I've seen been active frequently and actually talking in a while was Grim.
But ya, hes gone... since then its silent.. from both sides, CM and mods.

Kinda sad to feel pretty much left alone here..

We do moderate diligently while juggling in game activities and real life jobs, schools and what not. I will definitely try participating more as a community member once my new project is over with.

b:thanks

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

DodoBear - Harshlands wrote: »

Just to note, that since release of the game, we could multiclient without any 3rd-party programs the same way that we do now.

Multiclienting, as far as I have known, never required 3rd party software, nor did it require .ini file editing. I never once touched the .ini file on my client, yet, I was able to multi-client waaaaay long ago, like, in 2009. No modifying of files, just install two game clients, and launch one, login, open the other one's .exe, and login.

Unless, they have something in the patcher that they want run at every game startup... I only run the patcher when there's... patches to install. >_>

And seriously... I've ranted on this topic enough in other threads. I'm not gonna barf a wall of text up in here, too.

Bellarie - Raging Tide

ChloeAgave - Archosaur wrote: »

The same applies to that topic about the .ini files. Do you expect Frankie to go in and say "I agree with you all, they need to change this!" Hell, the only reason that has been a big deal lately is because of the change to the multi-client rule, and that happened because the client itself changed to allow it to be done with no third-party programs or editing of the files themselves on the part of the player. It's simple, the ToS say you cannot edit the game's files, and the client hasn't been changed to where you can make the changes people want without editing the files themselves. Nothing has changed, and if he has been talking with the Devs about this, it means that either nothing has changed in it, or nothing has that can be mentioned as of yet.

Brownnose.

First off, Multi-clienting never required the use of third-party programs or editing of the files themselves on the part of the player. That was just an incorrect excuse(as in, a lie) that was used to defend the rule against multiclienting because no valid reason could be given why it was against the rules, or why the other official versions of Perfect World allowed it. and apparently, pressure to change the rule finally got the Frankie, hence the rule change. The ini file rule is the same; Frankie has the power to change the rule, but has stubbornly given no valid reason on why the rule is in place, or why it can't be changed with reasonable restrictions(which is what we are asking in that thread) "It's a rule because it's always been a rule" is not a reason, and frankie has only made that comment, no other, for that entire thread, while some of the Mods have actually given positive input.
It's quite sad, I respect the mods, as they at least seem care enough to give some input, even if it is only a little. And frankie has been quite good at dealing with some issues, like his promptness with the ad hijacking issue.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Bellarie - Raging Tide wrote: »

Brownnose.

First off, Multi-clienting never required the use of third-party programs or editing of the files themselves on the part of the player. That was just an incorrect excuse(as in, a lie) that was used to defend the rule against multiclienting because no valid reason could be given why it was against the rules, or why the other official versions of Perfect World allowed it. and apparently, pressure to change the rule finally got the Frankie, hence the rule change. The ini file rule is the same; Frankie has the power to change the rule, but has stubbornly given no valid reason on why the rule is in place, or why it can't be changed with reasonable restrictions(which is what we are asking in that thread) "It's a rule because it's always been a rule" is not a reason, and frankie has only made that comment, no other, for that entire thread, while some of the Mods have actually given positive input.
It's quite sad, I respect the mods, as they at least seem care enough to give some input, even if it is only a little. And frankie has been quite good at dealing with some issues, like his promptness with the ad hijacking issue.

Frankie does not simply have the power to change rules. He gets permission. Changes in the client that allowed it to be run multiple times in a different, more common way, forced them to change their multi-client rules. It's not because of stubbornness, it's because Frankie is at the behest of China, who are too lazy to fix their development f***-ups. It isn't normal that the publishing side be so handcuffed by developers but in this case, with foreign developers, he's mostly handcuffed. The developers in this case unfortunately run the publishing too while it's usually the reverse.

What you do have right, however, is the poster you responded to obviously was too dumb to know that to run multi-client beforehand, it was a matter of running the game multiple times from the desktop shortcut.. of the regular element client. Did not require anything "3rd party" whatso-fricken-ever.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Bellarie - Raging Tide wrote: »

Brownnose.

First off, Multi-clienting never required the use of third-party programs or editing of the files themselves on the part of the player. That was just an incorrect excuse(as in, a lie) that was used to defend the rule against multiclienting because no valid reason could be given why it was against the rules, or why the other official versions of Perfect World allowed it. and apparently, pressure to change the rule finally got the Frankie, hence the rule change. The ini file rule is the same; Frankie has the power to change the rule, but has stubbornly given no valid reason on why the rule is in place, or why it can't be changed with reasonable restrictions(which is what we are asking in that thread) "It's a rule because it's always been a rule" is not a reason, and frankie has only made that comment, no other, for that entire thread, while some of the Mods have actually given positive input.
It's quite sad, I respect the mods, as they at least seem care enough to give some input, even if it is only a little. And frankie has been quite good at dealing with some issues, like his promptness with the ad hijacking issue.

Yet, we were kept completely in the ****ing dark about the DDoS that happened until people checked the forums of other games, and it got posted here. ONLY THEN did Frankie even acknowledge it, and only in the most Vague way possible.

CM's need to actually manage the community. This forum might only have a minority of the people who play PWI, but when WE have a consensus on something, and there's no word except from Fuzzy or Shelly trying to help... At least I'm starting to realize that Frankie isn't even communicating with the forum mods.

This just feels like a ship with an absent Captain (Frankie), and the Admiral of the fleet is a complete **** and has no idea what is going on (PW-Beijing/the Devs).