Wizars, Yes or No? [Doubts]

IDeidara - Archosaur

So, here's the catch, I'm a level 40 Wizard with 26 Vit and 168 Mag and I don't know if I should continue or not because I have 400k money and it's my only character on this cluster. When I fight mobs I kill like 2-4 and rest and/or use pots.
Is it worth ir or not? I don't see myself having money for the essencial stuff and I don't see "Me" in particular being strong, of course I have some "nice" damage with NPC weapons<.< and that Set from the chest but I don't know this will be.
If I should continue tell me what to do and if my build is good, also, If not, what class should I be? [I guess you'll say Veno aff]

Galox - Heavens Tear

Are you having fun playing your Wizard?

If yes, then please, do continue playing it. You really don't need any good gear as a Wizard in PvE. Even in TW and PvP vs. HA you can still be quite a beast with cruddy gear.

If you are not enjoying playing your Wizard, then don't play it.

If you spend your money wisely, (and have ways of making money,) you really should have little money problems later on as long as you have a little bit of patience.

But to be a real monster in PK it is usually advised you can afford decent gear and refines (At least +7ish refines and R8/R9 Wep.)

As for your Pot (Problem?), just go farm some herbs and make Life Powder and Focus Powder. Life Powder increases the HP you recover per second by 50 whole points. On a Wizard, this makes a huge difference. Focus Powder increases MP recovery by 50 per second; less noticeable, but it really cuts down meditating time at low levels.

IDeidara - Archosaur

Yes I'm having fun but between this "having fun" moments when I have no money at all, need to rest when I kill 3-4 mobs and getting a lot of damage totally kills me T.T

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Money making on a wizard really isn't too easy to do.

I'd personally recommend that you charge just $10 if you can. Sell the gold in AH and you'll have all the money you need until you get to level 70+ as long as you don't blow it on fash, mounts, flyers, or oracles.

tweakz

Wiz's are one of the most economical toons to play if not the most, but one of the worst for PvE usefulness.

You have a few skills that help you recover MP. One is your mag stat which affects max MP and MP recov. Max MP is further helped by Wellspring Quaff. Eruption recovers a % of MP based on that max MP provided by your stat, adds, and Quaff.

One problem is evident in your first sentence:

I'm a level 40 Wizard with 26 Vit and 168 Mag

There are multiple ways to generate in game coin, one good one is to merchant.

If I had to do over again, I'd go with veno, and cleric as casters rather than wiz.

RSully - Heavens Tear

Don't quit until you've at least tried out your lv 59 aoe's trust me, I think that changed a lotta up and coming wizards minds about sticking it out. I know it sure did mine.

tweakz

RSully - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Don't quit until you've at least tried out your lv 59 aoe's trust me, I think that changed a lotta up and coming wizards minds about sticking it out. I know it sure did mine.

Problem with them in PvE is they ch/cast too long. You could cast 3 skills on other casters in the time it takes for 2 from wiz. Also, while a skill like BIDS may throw out "500% of weapon damage", a veno can triple spark for 900% vs your 700% and follow up with Noxious which is often better than Hailstorm.

The OP is complaining about down time / costs. Those L59 AoE's consume sparks which is an integral part of MP recovery (used as eruptions combined with max MP boosting).

Of the 4 classes I play, I dislike wiz the most. I feel I only use it because it's 1 of my 2 100+ toons to get BH100 with.

Some may find it exciting trying to keep multiple mobs at bay with a wiz, and some may like sitting pretty in DB while **** flies. For most of us; this class is a dead horse for PvE.

Alchemy - Harshlands

Well im sure it would be more fun for you if you had better gear or at least stick to legendary weapons. While we kinda suck at making money, I have found merchanting to not be 2 hard. An easy way is to buy the cheapest tokens from cats, turn them to teles and then market the for like 200-300 profit at west teleporter or snowy village. Also check the fashions in AH and if you see something that is underpriced immediately buy and resell, easy millions from it.

Galox - Heavens Tear

I personally have found having "good gear" to be more boring than having crud gear, really. You beat someone in PvP with a +10 Wep/Armor, gratz?

You do seriously not need any good gear as a Wizard to succeed at all really. My Wiz was level 86? at the time this event happened. LA Build Wiz with +3 FF Green Wep, 3k HP Unbuffed. In PK mode on HT. Managed to eat my way through 100 Barbs, 100 APS BM's, and 7-8x BM's Wepless. Uncharmed. (So were opponents tho.. ) You really do not need good gear to beat anybody seriously. And I've already said that gear on a Wiz rarely matters in PvE. You just shoot spells at things.

IDeidara - Archosaur

Speaking of endgame, Strong/Average/Weak? Thoughts please

Btw I have 26 Vit at level 40? <

---

I think I should have more x.X

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

IDeidara - Archosaur wrote: »

Speaking of endgame, Strong/Average/Weak? Thoughts please

None of the above.

Epic.

btw, 24 vit at level 40 is actually 19 more vit than most wizzies your level have in vit.

I still have 5 vit with no gear on.

Some wizards will cap vit at 20, some at 50, you could cap it at 25 or 30.
It's cheap hp, and doesn't cost you that much damage.

Fistol - Raging Tide

get a better weapon, weapon makes life way easier.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

IDeidara - Archosaur wrote: »

Speaking of endgame, Strong/Average/Weak? Thoughts please

Btw I have 26 Vit at level 40? <

---

I think I should have more x.X

Endgame PVE DMG = weak compared to APS Chars
Endgame PVP DMG = Strong mag dmg with def ( compared to psy excellent mag dmg without def)

for the vit: 1vit = 10 hp so 26 points = 260 hp more ~1 hit more from a mob at most

so me and many other wiz decided to go with base vit and get hp out of refinements.
if you shard your gear with citrines and refine it to +5 you should be able to get around 5k hp unbuffed with good gear.

greetz harm0wnie

Elchesh - Heavens Tear

If you like it stick with it as others have said. It is true it takes devotion to play a wizard but I really like mine. As far as PVE goes idk what people are talking about when they say we fail. I gather 10 mobs or so my lvl and use dragons breath. 3 hits they are all dead. Gather more and repeat. I use cloud eruption genie skill or just attack with non chi skills when I start to run out of chi. I have never had a problem with PVE. As far as PVP goes never had much of a problem there at higher lvls. I attend territory wars and have lots fun and don't die much more than anyone else. This is all based off of my experiences with my wizard. Others have tried the wizard and hated it. It is all your choice but I think they are a overall good class.

IDeidara - Archosaur

Getting better weapons? Refining? I would love to IF I had money.
Merchanting takes money to do it in order to profit from it.
Btw, I thought my Vit was low ... if I had no Vit I would die like clerics lol

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

IDeidara - Archosaur wrote: »

Getting better weapons? Refining? I would love to IF I had money.
Merchanting takes money to do it in order to profit from it.
Btw, I thought my Vit was low ... if I had no Vit I would die like clerics lol

with no vit ur mag would be higher = more dmg = mob dies before it hits u , at least for my wizzie

and who told you clerics die so easily ???

Samwen - Lost City

Perhaps you should consider a mystic, if you don't like veno? If you avoid logging on just to do bh you'll end up saving a little bit money. Yeah the mp useage on a mystic is a little crazy, but if you take the time to learn a bit of apothecary it's managable.

I'd really hate to see another wizard go though, you poor things are so few and far in-between that I just love all over those I end up seeing on frost. Seriously!

Galox - Heavens Tear

IDeidara - Archosaur wrote: »

Getting better weapons? Refining? I would love to IF I had money.
Merchanting takes money to do it in order to profit from it.
Btw, I thought my Vit was low ... if I had no Vit I would die like clerics lol

http://pwinsider.wordpress.com/2011/03/06/warrenwolfys-guide-to-merchanting-part-0/

Cleric's don't die easy in PvE, esp. at level 40..they just lack a Knockback..but they have heals, Plume Shell, Buffs ect. If your really that intent on being Poor endgame, I'd say cap at 40-50 VIT Max.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

IDeidara - Archosaur wrote: »

Merchanting takes money to do it in order to profit from it.

Not true. Because of real life issues, I haven't been able to cashop for months, and my char only had 80k coin. I started merching and now have 20m.

80k to 20m in about 2 months, and that's with passive merching (aka me leaving up a catshop and checking it every/every other day)

The trick is to do your research and learn the market so you don't loose all your money.

Nurfed_You - Harshlands

I never was able to roll vit, i currently have 3 base vit. and if you can make it to endgame, grinding mobs isnt as bad. wellspring+glacial embrace and triple sparking when you have chi and you will use like 1 pot per 10-15 mobs and they will never hit you

RSully - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Problem with them in PvE is they ch/cast too long. You could cast 3 skills on other casters in the time it takes for 2 from wiz. Also, while a skill like BIDS may throw out "500% of weapon damage", a veno can triple spark for 900% vs your 700% and follow up with Noxious which is often better than Hailstorm.

The OP is complaining about down time / costs. Those L59 AoE's consume sparks which is an integral part of MP recovery (used as eruptions combined with max MP boosting).

Of the 4 classes I play, I dislike wiz the most. I feel I only use it because it's 1 of my 2 100+ toons to get BH100 with.

Some may find it exciting trying to keep multiple mobs at bay with a wiz, and some may like sitting pretty in DB while **** flies. For most of us; this class is a dead horse for PvE.

Right, I agree w/ casting time and I rarely use the ultis in pve esp with having demon spark. But for the sheer amount of joy it adds to the character when first acquired it can have a big effect on sticking with the wiz. I remember slapping rankar and wyvern in bh51 with lv 1-3 bids and just hoping for the crit. This is one of the first times I can remember having crazy fun as a wizard.

As far a DB goes it's still incredibly useful in many pve situations whether in personal grinding or in instances like fc. Whatever amount of damage I lack in single target DPS I make up for tremendously in taking care of mobs quickly. Having 3.9 sparks CE and Expel on genie means I have no trouble having a constant spark available for DB and at lvl 10 it eats mobs rather quickly. Even when fighting stun mobs like the dragoons later in the dungeon a mountain's seize on an aggroed group and immediate db afterwards saves tons of time.

Throw in assist healing, debuffing with undine, sopo to keep a stun mob from stunning your squadders. Heck, even using fow to drive away an aggroed mob heading for the cleric. If a group is heading for the poor cleric then quickly db'ing and expelling has helped me save a lot of clerics, which in turn saves the squad. Whatever damage I lack I more than make up in versatility. I'm used to getting picked last but most folks that run with me have no trouble adding me again because I play balls out.

I partially blame our bad reputation on folks like you that only think in terms of sheer damage and numbers. Truthfully numbers fail all the time because the people playing their toons don't play them correctly. A dead bm/sin does 0 dmg and a dead cleric does 0 healing. Working hard as a wizard to keep your squad healthy is a surefire way to help them play at their fullest potential. This is a benefit, not a hinderance.

So whether or not you find wizards preferable is your opinion, but we are certainly not a "dead horse".

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

RSully - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Right, I agree w/ casting time and I rarely use the ultis in pve esp with having demon spark. But for the sheer amount of joy it adds to the character when first acquired it can have a big effect on sticking with the wiz. I remember slapping rankar and wyvern in bh51 with lv 1-3 bids and just hoping for the crit. This is one of the first times I can remember having crazy fun as a wizard.

As far a DB goes it's still incredibly useful in many pve situations whether in personal grinding or in instances like fc. Whatever amount of damage I lack in single target DPS I make up for tremendously in taking care of mobs quickly. Having 3.9 sparks CE and Expel on genie means I have no trouble having a constant spark available for DB and at lvl 10 it eats mobs rather quickly. Even when fighting stun mobs like the dragoons later in the dungeon a mountain's seize on an aggroed group and immediate db afterwards saves tons of time.

Throw in assist healing, debuffing with undine, sopo to keep a stun mob from stunning your squadders. Heck, even using fow to drive away an aggroed mob heading for the cleric. If a group is heading for the poor cleric then quickly db'ing and expelling has helped me save a lot of clerics, which in turn saves the squad. Whatever damage I lack I more than make up in versatility. I'm used to getting picked last but most folks that run with me have no trouble adding me again because I play balls out.

I partially blame our bad reputation on folks like you that only think in terms of sheer damage and numbers. Truthfully numbers fail all the time because the people playing their toons don't play them correctly. A dead bm/sin does 0 dmg and a dead cleric does 0 healing. Working hard as a wizard to keep your squad healthy is a surefire way to help them play at their fullest potential. This is a benefit, not a hinderance.

So whether or not you find wizards preferable is your opinion, but we are certainly not a "dead horse".

The problem is, people don't need wizard in squad for survival. In many occasions they don't need even cleric. So why should they take wizard to squad? He has no even nice buff. Nothing. And with seeker AOE is wizard even useless. (my main is 101lv wizard) That's the sad truth. If we had sin BP buff you would see how would it change situation.

tweakz

RSully - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I partially blame our bad reputation on folks like you that only think in terms of sheer damage and numbers. Truthfully numbers fail all the time because the people playing their toons don't play them correctly. A dead bm/sin does 0 dmg and a dead cleric does 0 healing. Working hard as a wizard to keep your squad healthy is a surefire way to help them play at their fullest potential. This is a benefit, not a hinderance.

If I were into numbers, I'd be more supportive of wiz class -c'mon! My main is a veno created after my wiz, and my Assassin is Sage (not so simple minded aps is all freak). Seeker not only has more powerful continous AoE: they can get Blood Sucks while doing it while wearing HA armor w/o hindering dmg! They're soloing FF and tanking Delta at L85.

So whether or not you find wizards preferable is your opinion, but we are certainly not a "dead horse".

I think you'd have to make a point to the contrary; then I might retract. Whether they're fun or not is opinion, but when it comes to PvE they aren't desired for anything but Delta (soon to be replaced by Seekers there) for a reason. -and Delta is freak'n boring as a wiz.

RSully - Heavens Tear

The seeker is awesome, my lil lvl 50 tanks stuff that woulda killed my wiz by just staring at it. Yataghan vortex is stupidly powerful from what I've seen with seekers I've run with so far. I still think DB is more practical because of lower chi cost. I usually only see seekers using vortex in big room of fc because of the skill being a chi sucker instead of mp based like db.

The main point I want to make is based on the fact that I get tons of compliments from the people I run with, esp in FF/FC and I don't necessarily think it's because I play to different from any other wizard, I just think we are highly underestimated and lots of players have forgotten what we are still capable of. I hate seeing lots of younger wizards giving up on their toons cuz they think wizards are useless. I make it a point to encourage other wizards that are smaller than me and I have been encouraged many times throughout my leveling by other wizards.

I have no clue what the devs were thinking when they created the new classes but I'm not gonna let it stop me. I just like my wizard too much to stop playing him.

IDeidara - Archosaur

Sooooo,
I'm keeping my wizard as for now, I do know and understand that it isn't the best class to "start" because the reasons are obvious but I'm having fun playing and that is the main reason. Also I see myself going high with my Wizzie, if I will have money or good items? That O don't know but bleeh I can start all over with a different toon if I get bored.

/thread b:avoid

thumbs

RSully - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The seeker is awesome, my lil lvl 50 tanks stuff that woulda killed my wiz by just staring at it. Yataghan vortex is stupidly powerful from what I've seen with seekers I've run with so far. I still think DB is more practical because of lower chi cost. I usually only see seekers using vortex in big room of fc because of the skill being a chi sucker instead of mp based like db.

That just doesn't sound right. They can continuously go in Rebirth so it HAS TO BE MP.

[QUOTE= http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/skillpwi.php ]Drains 289.1 Mana every 1.5 seconds. Deals constant Physical damage
to targets within a 8.4 meter radius. The damage is equal
to base damage plus 55% of weapon damage plus 4491.2.
Spell will channel until you either run out of Chi or cancel
the spell.[/QUOTE]

-Looks like translational error. It does take more MP than DB, but it's also more powerful and a non-issue in RB. It's use in FF is short-lived, and nearly everyone is burning MP pots there.

The main point I want to make is based on the fact that I get tons of compliments from the people I run with, esp in FF/FC and I don't necessarily think it's because I play to different from any other wizard, I just think we are highly underestimated and lots of players have forgotten what we are still capable of. I hate seeing lots of younger wizards giving up on their toons cuz they think wizards are useless. I make it a point to encourage other wizards that are smaller than me and I have been encouraged many times throughout my leveling by other wizards.

The only advantage I could see of a wiz over a veno for FFC is that a lazy wiz is far better than a lazy veno. An ambitious veno will blow away a wiz though.

I don't think wiz has any advantage over a cleric, psychic. A Mystic would probably fall under same category as veno as it doesn't appear you can be lazy and play them well.

Wiz can indeed be fun to play, but I'd try a few classes out. Many of us multi-box or multi-client to keep busy. I used to think I'd only like casters, but am really enjoying playing a Sin. I still enjoy my wiz at moments but it's far from my primary choices now.

_Psychosis_ - Dreamweaver

you can get by with **** gear til 9x, IF you know what your doing, well maybe not **** gear but i count 3 star stuff as **** <.<, after 9x tho your gonna want the goods, i have a veno alt that i grind with and farm the lvl 60+ mats with, usually ill grind an hour and farm for an hour, or something like that to avoid roboticness, but yeah if you save it and sell for right prices, it adds up, then i just mail it to wiz, however my veno is getting to the point where shes about ready to move on to better stuff so the money should be even nicer, long story short, make a veno alt or sin alt or farm mats, cuz as a wizard you need a way to make income, if you want to not be **** after 9x, you can try gettin in instances but gl, you pretty much need really good friends who wont mind taking you. but yeah, if you can afford it, wizards are fun, if not, the fun will probly vanish as you get higher and start struggling due to bad gear.

RSully - Heavens Tear

thumbs wrote: »

That just doesn't sound right. They can continuously go in Rebirth so it HAS TO BE MP.

You're right, I had yet to acquire vortex at that time. My seeker is lv 63 now and yes, it is a mana vacuum. In fact I usually pot in addtion to charm just to make sure I don't lose it cuz it consumes so much.

Still though, charmed and wellspringed I could throw up db and go walk the dog and chat with the neighbors and never worry about it, lol.

Whatever distinct advantages other classes have in FC are irrelevant to me. I rock in FC and I'm QQ'ing because most people still don't know that and won't invite me even when they ask for a random DD which I think is ridiculous.

At current moment I'm running seek, 68 cleric, and baby archer, psy, barb. Even after enjoying the other classes I still feel most at home on wiz, guess it's just me.

Oh btw, during the last assault on archosaur I briefly felt loved as I had at least 10 squad invites looking for a wizard to help em grind.b:victory

Fiorrello_ - Raging Tide

let me put it this way. at lv72 where i am at the time of posting this 21 points of magic equals for me almost 200 extra base attack. (thats just a guess, its probable more). compare that to the 210 extra hp it gives you.
http://pwcalc.com/56ee5f8755d690a8
http://pwcalc.com/1bo42f459c9d3720

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Ok, if you have fun on your wizard, by all means, play it.

But don't play it if you think you are going to be awesome endgame, because that is no longer the case. There are plenty of classes that will own you end game, especially if you are not prepared to dump tons of coin into your gear.

And the fact that noone EVER requests a wizard for squads is only another reason.

I have a cleric and a barb now that are 8x/9x and the degree to which I am actually able to play the game now is unreal compared to my wizards. If you actually want to play the game, and level a character quickly, a barb or a cleric (on most servers) has to be the right choice. 3rd and 4th options I would say are bm and now seeker (I guess the game needed another tanking class, but tanking and aoe dd seem a little imbalanced, and put wizard that much further down the food chain for pve content).

INB4 all the imawizandihavefriendsandneverhaveproblemsgettingasquad - sometimes its nice to just jump on the game and get a squad in 5 minutes without having to wait for this person or that person to finish up what they are doing, eat, take a shower (ive never seen people say they are taking showers as much as pwi players, its almost weird but dunno why I need to know you are showering - but i digress), etc.

Arma_Geddon - Heavens Tear

butimawizandihavefriendsandneverhaveproblemsgettingasquad!!!! :<