Is a barb useless?

CaitlinDan - Heavens Tear

So I've been a bit bored of my veno/cleric/mystic and wanted to roll a new character and decided on a barb, but after checking the forums for information on the barbarian I've learnt that barbs are an almost extinct class because of the whole issue with aps, something that barbs do not have.

I read that some barbs choose to keep up with the demand for high aps characters by using Deicides, WTLG, -int wrists, and Nirvana legwear to hit about 4.0aps. Pricey, but definitely possible.

My question is, just because a lot of barbs are crossing over to play sins and other classes, has a barb lost their charm? Should I reroll something else?

I knowthat this is a game and we should always try to enjoy a game, but I also want to play something without regretting it towards mid game. Will a barb be wanted in FFs (cause it seems that most FF squads only have sins and barbs), BHs and so on?

Thank you. (:

endlessseek

Yeah, BM can easily replace Barb, and BM is better DD and has better skills like HF and stun.
Sins also can tank nirvana,warsong,BH1000. aswell as an archer. Barb is only good for Delta probably and i dont know about TT. but nobody does TT much, its all about nirvana .

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver

CaitlinDan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So I've been a bit bored of my veno/cleric/mystic and wanted to roll a new character and decided on a barb, but after checking the forums for information on the barbarian I've learnt that barbs are an almost extinct class because of the whole issue with aps, something that barbs do not have.

I read that some barbs choose to keep up with the demand for high aps characters by using Deicides, WTLG, -int wrists, and Nirvana legwear to hit about 4.0aps. Pricey, but definitely possible.

My question is, just because a lot of barbs are crossing over to play sins and other classes, has a barb lost their charm? Should I reroll something else?

I knowthat this is a game and we should always try to enjoy a game, but I also want to play something without regretting it towards mid game. Will a barb be wanted in FFs (cause it seems that most FF squads only have sins and barbs), BHs and so on?

Thank you. (:

Short answer, no they aren't.

Vixter - Harshlands

barbs just need some love and attention. i try to provide that with every barb i squad with. lol.

i love barbs and i dont think theyre useless. in my opinion they make things easier for us. its that dirty thing we call aps that screws up the usefulness of their job :P

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I seem to be unable to go 30 minutes without being invited to a TT or Nirvana, so no I don't think so.

Jeremied - Sanctuary

Please don't listen to endlessseek, he's got a bad habit of trolling people starting new characters. Barbs are awesome and there needs to be more of them. I'd prefer to have a barb tanking than another class that I'm not sure can handle it.

And Rawrgh ^ here is a perfect example that barbs CAN compete with the other 5aps classes fine.

krittycat

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

And Rawrgh ^ here is a perfect example that barbs CAN compete with the other 5aps classes fine.

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?b:mischievous

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

KrittyCat wrote: »

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?b:mischievous

But I do beat them, at their own game.

BIaze_ - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

But I do beat them, at their own game.

beating someone with +2 refines with a +10 refines wouldnt exactly count now would it

Jeremied - Sanctuary

KrittyCat wrote: »

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?b:mischievous

XD Don't get me wrong, I still prefer the good ol' tank barb, but that's just because I'm old fashioned. XP

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

BIaze_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

beating someone with +2 refines with a +10 refines wouldnt exactly count now would it

I can outDD a BM if his weapon is even slightly lower refined than mine or if he still uses lunar or doesn't have demon fist mastery. A BM with the same refine as me, it's just aggro ping pong.

Outlaw_Arch - Heavens Tear

barbs have gotten rare which is sad cos really, i reather have a barb, the TRUE tank of the game, in the party rather than some sqishy *** fish that would get oneshotted if it's buff happend to ware off in the middle of a fight. if you become a barb, trust me, i'm sure you'll be in high demand, at the very least until high mid levels. (altho me personally i think barbs are epic all around)

krittycat

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

XD Don't get me wrong, I still prefer the good ol' tank barb, but that's just because I'm old fashioned. XP

I have a vit build barb on DW, and fully intend to go Sage with it.

Jeremied - Sanctuary

KrittyCat wrote: »

I have a vit build barb on DW, and fully intend to go Sage with it.

If (when) they nerf aps, everyone'll be sorry there aren't more vit barbs out there. XD

Quilue - Sanctuary

Barb CC Demon Onslaught would probably beat BM CC Demon DBB in damage output...

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

When I did Bh59 on my Archer, there were a number of poorly geared, no skill, no idea what they were doing barbs that tried tanking. I switched to the lvl 1-15 arrows, switched to lower refined, lower level requirement bows, removed interval wrists, waited for the bosses to get to 3/4 HP... And would pull aggro off the Barb on the 2nd or 3rd hit.

i ended up tanking the majority of the BH59's I did. It got to the point where I would look at the Barb/BM's gear. If it was purchased straight from a Vendor, I'd tell the cleric I was gonna tank. If it was even blue onestar gear, I'd at least give them a chance to try holding aggro.

I dunno. I guess I got kinda fed up with fail tanks. It's not limited to Barbs, either. There were BM's that said 'oh, I can tank!' and died right through BB on the second or third hit from a BH boss.

So, if you want to roll a Barb, be prepared to do it right. >_> Gear is important, as are skills and your build.

_Petal_ - Harshlands

If (when) they nerf aps, everyone'll be sorry there aren't more vit barbs out there. XD

QFT.

I hope they nurf aps. That way, people will stop rolling so many BM's and Assassins. I am SICK of watching them tank. All they do is twitch twitch twitch twitch, and it's positively unattractive and it literally defies the physics of the game. It's pretty much killed the balance of the game alongside stealth and telestun.

KILL THE APS! KILL IT!

Brus - Lost City

Barbs are useless ONLY IN PVP

They are GODs in PvE and nothing can replace them.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

Brus - Lost City wrote: »

Barbs are useless ONLY IN PVP

They are GODs in PvE and nothing can replace them.

I dont know about that R9 barbs with the right shards are scary. My barb in pvp is not to bad but its gotten alot harder with the one shot ko capabilities around atm but to say a barbs fail in pvp is just wrong

A barb is what you make of him... there are some people that will try to do everything you can do as it makes them feel a little more at peace with the time and effort they put in to the game. There are people that will respect its yoru class and your role is to tank I usualy find them people and stick with them.

I used to dislike aps people till I met the few I run with now there is no arrogance no screaming for hf devour spark every 5 minutes and non of the If I was not here you would all be dead stigma attached to the squad.

Some people will be nice to you most wont just stick with the nice guys.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I can outDD a BM if his weapon is even slightly lower refined than mine or if he still uses lunar or doesn't have demon fist mastery. A BM with the same refine as me, it's just aggro ping pong.

Bragging that you can beat someone with worse gear than you, is kind of like bragging that you can beat a kindergardner when you're an eighth grader though isn't it? It's not fair to compare.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

KrittyCat wrote: »

I have a vit build barb on DW, and fully intend to go Sage with it.

I really wish more went this way. It's just so much easier especially when you get with dds that know when to control aggro, when to go all out. :P

Vorgen - Sanctuary

Well Did an Fcc run with 2 4 aps bms a couple of weeks ago. Not bad was fast got done quick. But, they could not pull agro from me. In fact no one in that squad that tried could. Its not just about gearing but how you set yourself up and what skills you employ. Except for pulls i did that whole run without being in kitty mode. Oh and no.. I am not a fist barb....ewb:shocked

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

Please don't listen to endlessseek, he's got a bad habit of trolling people starting new characters. Barbs are awesome and there needs to be more of them. I'd prefer to have a barb tanking than another class that I'm not sure can handle it.

And Rawrgh ^ here is a perfect example that barbs CAN compete with the other 5aps classes fine.

Yea but cant pull a cata for shizz. WTF is he even trying to gear up for? It's seriously a shame that in order to compete you need to gimp your toon.

KrittyCat wrote: »

I have a vit build barb on DW, and fully intend to go Sage with it.

This is sexy.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Bragging that you can beat someone with worse gear than you, is kind of like bragging that you can beat a kindergardner when you're an eighth grader though isn't it? It's not fair to compare.

And this reads like a kindergartener bragging spuriously that their deficient capabilities do not handicap their ability to function in regards to an eighth grader in the real world, regardless of how simple observation may prove otherwise.

A 5 APS barb is more useful than a full VIT tank barb regardless of the instance you're doing, especially if they're properly refined and have certain requisite skills. No amount of misdirected sobbing over the apparent uselessness of VIT barbs will change this.

Yea but cant pull a cata for shizz.

LOL VIT for Cata Barbs when refines/savant stones/Drakestone shards/rank 9 DEF levels do the job better instead. Some of the best Cata Barbs I know have 3 base VIT (and a metric f*ckton of cash shop gears/refines).

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yea but cant pull a cata for shizz. WTF is he even trying to gear up for? It's seriously a shame that in order to compete you need to g.p your toon.




This is sexy.

Do you really think that 150 vit is going to make any real difference with easy R9/high refines/+10 vit stones?


I'm in the largest TW guild on my server and one of our main cata barbs is claw build.


And how the hell is it "gimping my toon"? I gain incredible DPS, great squad utility, soling ability, and can do any instance more effectively than a vit barb, I fail to see how the hell that's "gimping" my toon.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And this reads like a kindergartener bragging spuriously that their deficient capabilities do not handicap their ability to function in regards to an eighth grader in the real world, regardless of how simple observation may prove otherwise.

A 5 APS barb is more useful than a full VIT tank barb regardless of the instance you're doing, especially if they're properly refined and have certain requisite skills. No amount of misdirected sobbing over the apparent uselessness of VIT barbs will change this.



LOL VIT for Cata Barbs when refines/savant stones/rank 9 DEF levels do the job better instead.

I'm a cleric, what on god's green earth would I want aps for? I'm not saying that kindergartner = 8th graders in terms of abilities and education. Nothing in that post would indicate that I'm claiming their abilities are the same or that compared to kindergartners an 8th grader wouldn't beat them in almost every way. I'm saying that an 8th grader bragging that they beat a kindergartner in every way is unseemly, pointless, and doesn't show off in any way, shape or form the capabilities of said 8th grader. Nor does it speak to their capabilities. Even an eighth grader who refuses to learn, can't read, runs slow, bullies people and can't do simple math is probably going to do better on proficiency tests than a kindergartner by virtue of being able to spell his name. That doesn't mean that 8th grader is at the top of his class. If you want to compare, you have to compare people who are similar like an 8th grader to an 8th grader. He claims he beats them all but admits that it's aggro ping pong (meaning he can't hold aggro) from a bm that has equal gear as he does. So no he does not beat them all, at best he does as well as them.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

I'm saying that an 8th grader bragging that they beat a kindergartner in every way is unseemly, pointless, and doesn't show off in any way, shape or form the capabilities of said 8th grader.

Which, given a standard criterion of performance like in Perfect World, spells out the death knell for anyone performing beneath an 8th grade level. (Assume a 5 aps Sin with +10 or more refines on his gear is post-graduate level, and...)

What Rawrgh said wasn't incorrect, you're just too far behind to understand how correct he was. A flawed system, to be sure, but one we still willingly choose to live under, for better or worse.

The only thing he's "admitting" is that he plays aggro pingpong with some of the best DDs in the game. Oh, such a terrible tank he is.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And this reads like a kindergartener bragging spuriously that their deficient capabilities do not handicap their ability to function in regards to an eighth grader in the real world, regardless of how simple observation may prove otherwise.

A 5 APS barb is more useful than a full VIT tank barb regardless of the instance you're doing, especially if they're properly refined and have certain requisite skills. No amount of misdirected sobbing over the apparent uselessness of VIT barbs will change this.



LOL VIT for Cata Barbs when refines/savant stones/Drakestone shards/rank 9 DEF levels do the job better instead. Some of the best Cata Barbs I know have 3 base VIT (and a metric f*ckton of cash shop gears/refines).

He already said on another thread that he has 14k hp buffed in tiger form glitched fists.. nothing refined past +4..... Constantly complains about being one shot by casters...

Id take all that gear you mentioned on a vit build barb anyday over a 5aps. %aps is not more usefull in TW. Barbs should just roll a bm and do better damage. They already should have half the gear anyway. And im sorry but barbs dont get fists skills. IJS

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He already said on another thread that he has 14k hp buffed in tiger form glitched fists.. nothing refined past +4..... Constantly complains about being one shot by casters...

And yet at 5 APS I'd sooner have him in my instance runs than a 30k HP barb with no APS.

Can you imagine how beastly he'd be with +10 refines or more on all his gear? I don't have to. One of our Cata Barbs is 5 APS with his +10 Deicides. Not only does he outdamage my 3.33 sparked Sin, he's our top Cata barb.

Again, you're thinking too small. Most of this game is decided upon one's investment into it, be it coins or cash shop, not the amount of time they've spent or their build. I find heavily refined, cash-shop HA venos harder to kill than Barbs. Don't even get me started on how broken Psys are...

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Here is my opinion, after talking this over with some friends of mine:

We do not think that barbarians are useless: vit build and strength build barbs can be awesome in current squads. However, their roles -- everyone's roles -- change with high-end end-game gear. Even if the barb does not have epic high end gear -- especially if the barb does not have epic high end gear and someone else does have better gear -- there are things the barb can do to make everyone's life simpler.

(And a lot of the general principles here also hold for people in other classes, even though the specifics change from class to class.)

Barbs have interrupt skills that work even when someone else is tanking. They have survival skills for when things go south. They can pick up adds and hold them for the fraction of a second that a squishy tank would need, or that the cleric would need when the squishy tank dies. And, of course, their buffs make a squishy tank into an epic squishy tank.

Mostly, though, people in your squad are going to have to talk about where things could be better, and try things out and practice. A lot of the benefits you can provide to a squad are in the dark corners where ... where things go wrong, or are frustrating. And if you do not know about those frustrations, you will not be able to address them. So you also need people in your squad that will talk with you, and probably this conversation will need to take place over weeks and/or months.

(Most people that reach high levels in this game get enjoyment from falling into a role and being comfortable there, and this adaption stuff can be very unpleasant for them, especially when they have gone from "hero" that everyone depends on and listens to or they die to "supporting role" that "just makes things pleasant". That's an awful hurdle to jump and even if it winds up being a temporary condition, for high level characters "temporary" can be "a year or longer".)

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

He already said on another thread that he has 14k hp buffed in tiger form glitched fists.. nothing refined past +4..... Constantly complains about being one shot by casters...

Id take all that gear you mentioned on a vit build barb anyday over a 5aps. %aps is not more usefull in TW. Barbs should just roll a bm and do better damage. They already should have half the gear anyway. And im sorry but barbs dont get fists skills. IJS

You are so stupid I don't even know where to begin.


First of all, 14k is with my -interval equips, as in, not the equips I use for PvP. No, I am not running around TW with evasion ornaments.

Second, when the hell did I say I had nothing refined past +4, I have almost everything refined past +4 except my map 4 belt and my lunar ring.

With R9/Vit stones/Jades, etc. 150 vit is completely insignificant. 100%

No durr 5 aps isn't useful in TW, when the hell did I say it was a TW build.

Barbs should roll a BM and do better damage? Like I've already said, with a similarly refined weapon a 5 aps BM cannot keep aggro from me consistently. The only way a 5 aps BM can consistently hold aggro from me is if he has a higher refined weapon.


And who cares about fist skills, how often do you see a BM using fist skills in PvE anyways. Cyclone? Maybe if they don't have enough chi for triple spark. DBB is the only one used regularly. Oh what's that? I can cancel demon bestial onslaught? Oh cool. What's that? I get an extra 30% hp? Pretty useful for when we're on emperor and our 5 aps DD just got killed and I'm sitting there tanking him. I can keep devour on the boss, I can keep barb buffs up for bosses that purge, so please, learn to PvE before you claim to know anything.


Oh, and my build allows me to farm coins MUCH faster than a pure vit barb. As in, I can farm high refines + vit stones easy. I played for just a few hours yesterday and easily made 25mil, that's not counting the dozen or so minister stones I have waiting to be sold after double drops ends. I don't really have anything to do today, so If I put in a decent amount of time I can probably farm another 50mil and put vit stones in my cape for starters. Or maybe start working on a tier 2 nirvana helm.

Edit: Just got a wrist gold from soloing 3-2, +5mil for me.