Was told that a veno is redundant, and now was informed that sins are the new barbs

CaitlinDan - Heavens Tear

First off, I have to make it clear, I'm not really good at MMORPGs in general, but I do enjoy playing PW and I would like to know that I'm playing something that is wanted in parties in the future and so on.

I started with a cleric, then rolled a veno and played both. Then someone informed me that Venos are completely outclassed by Mystics and that I should simply delete my veno because it is a complete waste of time, which was really sad because I loved playing it. Loved because I kinda lost interest after Perfect Chests came out and people starting shooting down venos in general in Heavens Tear. (or maybe I was just unlucky to stumble upon such conversations).

After much thought, I decided that perhaps I should roll a barbarian because I love the barbs, and with the new multiclienting rule, I could use my cleric and barb concurrently and it should be an interesting combination. However, again, I had a conversation with a group of players who said that I'm wasting my time training a barb, that I should be training a sin, because sins with blood paint and demon spark would make the best tanks in the game.

So (inhales), I just want to know, is a barb screwed as well? It kinda feels that every single class I end up falling in love for ends up getting shot down.

So is a barb a poor character choice? (I do know that they are a dying class though - is this because everyone is crossing over to a sin?) What about a veno?

__Kikyo__ - Lost City

Dont worry this game will be over in a few years

_Petal_ - Harshlands

__Kikyo__ - Lost City wrote: »

Dont worry this game will be over in a few years

^ Ignore the queen of the optimists here.

Venomancers are good overall as a DD and a sort of tank, just as they've always been. Mystics have made it harder to squad up because THEY can throw pretty flowers everywhere and heal people....other than that, the good news is that pet food and pets in general have become insanely cheap. It's easier now to get things a venomancers needs than it ever was due to lack of demand.

Barbarians have died all because of a little thing called 5 attacks per second. Blademasters, Sins, even archers, now have it because, why would you want to build your class the way the original developers intended when you can do what literally EVERYBODY else is doing, and twitch bosses in like two seconds?
Despite that....people still ask for barbs. Why? Because they ARE THE TANK CLASS. The rest of them can shove it and DD like they're supposed to....posers. b:irritated

redblossom

First off, ignore the silly poster above.
Edit: (meaning the first reply to the thread.)

Second, barbs are still very well needed. I see people shout out for them alot. They still make fantastic tanks, and people know it.

I don't know alot about the veno's, but I do know that their pets are stronger as the mystic summons. Also, they could still be a nice addition to a party thanks to their skills. Just realize that they are somewhat a solo class.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

CaitlinDan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

First off, I have to make it clear, I'm not really good at MMORPGs in general, but I do enjoy playing PW and I would like to know that I'm playing something that is wanted in parties in the future and so on.

I started with a cleric, then rolled a veno and played both. Then someone informed me that Venos are completely outclassed by Mystics and that I should simply delete my veno because it is a complete waste of time, which was really sad because I loved playing it. Loved because I kinda lost interest after Perfect Chests came out and people starting shooting down venos in general in Heavens Tear. (or maybe I was just unlucky to stumble upon such conversations).

After much thought, I decided that perhaps I should roll a barbarian because I love the barbs, and with the new multiclienting rule, I could use my cleric and barb concurrently and it should be an interesting combination. However, again, I had a conversation with a group of players who said that I'm wasting my time training a barb, that I should be training a sin, because sins with blood paint and demon spark would make the best tanks in the game.

So (inhales), I just want to know, is a barb screwed as well? It kinda feels that every single class I end up falling in love for ends up getting shot down.

So is a barb a poor character choice? (I do that they are a dying class though) What about a veno?

I have a barb and a sin. As awesome as my sin is, my barb outshines it in nearly every capacity except damage (we're poor DDs). It's the sins extreme damage (and aps) that allows them to tank, but...they have to be built for it. The LA that they use is pretty **** gear, and require better than average refines on p.def orns and better than average HP in order to survive well enough.

At endgame, barbs lose their singular role as primary tanks due to APS classes. But, with the exception to Nirvana, I've never been denied a spot in a squad simply because most players would rather rely on a class designed from the ground up as a tank, rather than one that just so happens to be able to tank thanks to their billion coin gear.

Adroit - Lost City

Honestly, if you are rolling a new character your best choice would be a sin. They have outshined every other class in the game (in both PvE and PvP).. and you will run into this dead class feeling with any of the original classes lol. Sucks, but that's the way it is atm.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

Lucky you,
As an archer, I was sidelined by the assassin class.
I thought that was enough but now again I wonder how much more they can hurt archers.
Have you seen a seekers zhen aoe? Now who the hell will want archers outside of 5 aps vana and tw.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly, if you are rolling a new character your best choice would be a sin. They have outshined every other class in the game (in both PvE and PvP).. and you will run into this dead class feeling with any of the original classes lol. Sucks, but that's the way it is atm.

Except they haven't.

What has made them the end-all, be-all class is how much cheaper +12 refines have become.

Average refined sins largely suck. I should know. I have one.

Zenorx - Harshlands

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Honestly, if you are rolling a new character your best choice would be a sin. They have outshined every other class in the game (in both PvE and PvP).. and you will run into this dead class feeling with any of the original classes lol. Sucks, but that's the way it is atm.

QFT

Shes pretty much right, especially, demon spark + aps = insta win

Well most of the time anyways, not so much in tw or group pvp but meh

Inb4apsQQthread

Azura - Lost City

Look, the most overpowered class are sins, they are broken. If you want to play for winning, or to have more acceptation (at low levels), you should roll sin. However, it gets really lame when more than half of the server plays a sin. The class is boring, it's too easy.

I did pve with my horrible geared barb, and it was fun. Fortunately, I never stumbled with any assos or terrible clerics. I did a little bit of pvp with him, but I didn't even have a good genie and fast fly. But when I think about the posibilities of a barb pking: if I expent the same amount of money I have expent on my veno, I am sure it would had been fun.

I made my veno since this game started, so there was no frost to level. I went from 1-95 solo. When I got to 95 bounty hunters appeared and it made it easier to reach 100. Right now, I don't pve at all in any kind of character. If I wanted, I would probably find nirvana runs, cause some people likes amp.

Sometimes I pvp. I do it rarely now cause there is too many cashoppers, and I got screwed with my medals. I know venos are nowhere as powerful as fishes, but I play with my veno because that's the class I like. Why I like it? I dunno, lol.

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear

Mostly what you're running into are people whose perspective is "he with the greatest damage wins" which is true in some situations. He with the greatest dps is an assassin and he with the greatest dph is a wizard. However they're made greater by other classes, so he with the greatest support wins. Wizard+BM+seeker+veno+cleric=epic wizard. Sin+bm+veno+barb+cleric=epic sin

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

Whoever told you that Venos are redundant is an idiot. Those squads that clear Nirvanas in under 10 minutes would rather have a Veno than a Cleric.

At endgame, your job is to debuff bosses. The pet and the magic damage are just a slight bonus.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Whoever told you that Venos are redundant is an idiot. Those squads that clear Nirvanas in under 10 minutes would rather have a Veno than a Cleric.

At endgame, your job is to debuff bosses. The pet and the magic damage are just a slight bonus.

APS venos

debuff boss and damage

Cadeal - Dreamweaver

Listen, dont listen to these Nirvana crazed money hungry jaded holocaust survivors. If you enjoy the class, play it. Dont let Anyone elses opinion sway you away from a class you want to play. I know hundreds of great venos at end game who outshine sins, on every single frame. A good player isnt designed by its class, a good player is designed by its ability to play the class it choses to.

Every class has a huge weakness, and as much as sins want to claim they dont, they do, and they know they do.

WingArc - Harshlands

although im not an endgame player i have played this game for 3 years and i still manage to kill 8x to 10x sins on a daily basis. yeah they mightnt of been an organized battle but i still out did them and kept them away from me and stunned and frozen.

what im trying to say is that play the class you want and laugh at the sins that you kill because they think they are legends. stick with what you want to play and keep at it.

P.S. some people need to think harder when they reply. not all so dont go yelling at me for saying that.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

Cadeal - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Every class has a huge weakness, and as much as sins want to claim they dont, they do, and they know they do.

It's true. High-refined, endgame Psychics, on the other hand...

Aasaf - Sanctuary

I'll add my observations on the BH runs from lvl 40-70. From lvl 40-70, having a barb as a tank always ended the BH quickly and cleanly. There have been 10 instances where the tank was not a barb. In one there was a BM, but he had amazing gear, with refines, which made his health, pdef quite high, he was able to tank. All the other 9, seekers, sins tried but ended up getting the squad killed and making the BH last 2-3 hours, and people quitting the squad.

To me having a barb, cleric combo is always good. Makes for quick, easy, clean runs. Once I reach end game, I will let you know. I'll be one of the poor end game players .

__Kikyo__ - Lost City

forget what everyone is saying here.Just watch this video explaining pwi.b:pleased


http://nyan.cat/

CaitlinDan - Heavens Tear

Thank you for cheering me up on that point. (:

However, what about those claims that barbs are extinct/redundant and that sins are going to be the new tanks because of Blood Paint and demon spark? I love my noobie barb, does that mean I should stop?

TigerLily - Lost City

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Whoever told you that Venos are redundant is an idiot. Those squads that clear Nirvanas in under 10 minutes would rather have a Veno than a Cleric.

At endgame, your job is to debuff bosses. The pet and the magic damage are just a slight bonus.

And they would rather settle for a "crappy" 3.33 aps DD than a veno. Or they will invite a barb, at least than everyone gets attack/hp buffs and devour is a pretty effective debuff.

Venos are of course really useful in other instances, but pets and Nirvana doesn't go very well together with the AOE-seal and random aggro. Its just to annoying when the entire party have to run after the boss - thats running after the sealed herc.

VenomousEmo - Harshlands

Lol mystics and venos can't even compare. Sure, they have pets and their fancy plants, but venos (imo) will have a higher need in TW and certain instances than mystics for a while. Venos have purge and amp; something that's needed pretty much in everything. If I were looking for Nirvana, I'd bring a veno for the amp, not a mystic. Plus these days, high aps squad don't bring a cleric; it's either 4/5 ap BM and sins and occasionally the veno amp/mob killing/chest runner slave. Other than that, GG to the others.
So while the mystic is OP and all, don't even compare it to a veno. They mystic pets don't have too great of damage... and doesn't stand a chance against a nix. Mystics could possibly be OP in TW since they have all those plants and what not, but I guarantee you there's not one mystic on any of the servers that can qualify as "skilled" yet. Then again, this game isn't about skill anymore. More like r9 or gtfo, but we'll see.
As for the sins/barb situation, I have nothing to say. Barbs are going extinct due to the 5aps, and sins are increasing for the 5 aps. Therefore, it sucks trying to find a barb these days since there are none left. Oh, but the sin tanking thing is kinda overrated, considering these "high ap sins" think they're all that, and are like "ya man I got this, I can tank dis ****" and end up dieing a few seconds later...
Skillz.

Jeremied - Sanctuary

......My advice...play what you have fun playing as. **** anyone that tells you otherwise.

I enjoy the classic classes much more than the new ones (tried all 4, disliked them all, even mystic)
Mystics spend a lot of mana on luring. Mystics spend a lot mana on res buff. Mystics spend a lot of mana on heals. Mystics spend a lot of mana on DD.

Venos send their pet, DD, and when mana gets low, swap HP and MP, heal > repeat.

Mystics pets can't tank worth ****. Venos pets tank much better.

Mystics have % chances to debuff. Venos debuffs are 100%

Venos can give people (Like Clerics and BMs!) free sparks. Mystics can't give you chi unless they let you punch them. Not that they'd want to, they need to save those sparks for Cragg, which desummons after 20 seconds.

Cleric's IH stacks, mystics heals don't. Clerics can purify 100%, sage mystics only have a chance to purify every few heals, and thats only if they buy the expensive skill.

Barbs aren't my cup of tea. Being a cleric, I'd prefer to have a barb than a sin though.

I guess it's the fact that I've been playing since WAY before the tideborn expansion. I had tons of fun with the original classes, and if you do too, play what you want. It's a game, not a career choice. ^^ Have fun.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear

didnt read all the replies but id just play what you enjoy. if you enjoy it and are good at the class you will be able to get squads.
I have a bm psy cleric veno and sin and I enjoy them all, and being i make my own squads I have no issues getting into squads. some are easier to get into pick up squads than others

Quilue - Sanctuary

Veno is one of the classes that actually has a place in endgame squads. People who don't see the value of venos are stupid. When you have enough DD output, the Veno's additional amp stacking with HF and EP is invaluable, that plus pdef debuff and purge are nice. Any of you remember Templar's "speed run" videos? I remember at least 2 of those with a Veno in squad.

endlessseek

Look i warned and made alot of post on this forums... BM and Sins are the best class.. But BM is the best deal for this game. Go 5 aps BM its cheapest and best 5aps DD. And most wanted in squads. And you can solo things with BM.

Also BM and Sins can solo or duo nirvanna. Which you can make 10mil coins in 1hour on one of your character. And you can solo FC with this class and level another class the fastest way possible. so BM and sin is the best class. But BM is cheaper to make than sins and you can do more with BM because your wanted more in squad. So BM is the best class right now i think. Before the best money making class was a veno but that like 2 years ago when i use to play. And now you can multi client...You can easily make 2 5aps class because you make so much money so fast with a BM...then make another 5aps sin in 1month.. Then u have 10aps. Now you can make 20mil+ every hour doing nirvana on double drops with multi client. I know people that do this. That is like 20dollars/hour.. Fastest way to make money here. All other class are useless now, they lack DD and you will have to squad with noobs which take 10-20minutes to form a freaking squad.And you will profit 1-3mil in 1hour.. compared to 20mil perhour is ****in sad. This game is unbalanced. The Herc and Nix sale is useless. You cant do **** with Nix.. Herc is too slow at soloing instance. ..im gonna post this on forums. useful info here

The__Sun - Dreamweaver

endlessseek wrote: »

Look i warned and made alot of post on this forums... BM and Sins are the best class.. But BM is the best deal for this game. Go 5 aps BM its cheapest and best 5aps DD. And most wanted in squads. And you can solo things with BM.

I'd say it is balanced for the need of sins and BM solo wise, because most BM's still need Bloodpaint to solo nirvana or something. Sins have the ability to do more damage then a BM at higher refines.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

And they would rather settle for a "crappy" 3.33 aps DD than a veno. Or they will invite a barb, at least than everyone gets attack/hp buffs and devour is a pretty effective debuff.

Venos are of course really useful in other instances, but pets and Nirvana doesn't go very well together with the AOE-seal and random aggro. Its just to annoying when the entire party have to run after the boss - thats running after the sealed herc.

Any squad that would take a 3.33 aps DD (like my Sin...) over a Veno who can Amp Damage,Rainbow, Purge and Demon Ironwood are dumb. You don't invite a veno to Nirvana for pets...

Jeremied - Sanctuary

endlessseek wrote: »

Look i warned and made alot of post on this forums... BM and Sins are the best class.. But BM is the best deal for this game. Go 5 aps BM its cheapest and best 5aps DD. And most wanted in squads. And you can solo things with BM.

You're not warning people, you're trolling people.

People will play what they have fun playing. Because it's all just a game.

AKA if I want to play a cleric and a veno, because mele classes are boring to me, then I'm not gonna roll BM or Sin just so I can auto attack things (and be bored) to death. I didn't get my brilliant plumes by playing boring 5aps mele classes just for drops so I can break even with heavy repair bills =P (hell tideborn weren't even out when I got those, neither were 5aps and rank 9)

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Technically speaking, the Veno is original, but Mystics are redundant.

They perform the same tasks that Venos do, Psy's do, Wizards do, and Clerics do.

The heal pets, they do some AOE, the have some magic Nukes, and they have some player based heals.

So... Roll a Veno if you want to, they are the only class that can reliably amp/curse bosses, and purge. Yeah, r9 bow can purge, and so can some other bows, but 1) R9 bows aren't very common and 2) the purge on a bow is pretty unreliable, seeing how it's a weapon proc. You cannot trigger it at will.

As for Sins being the new barbs... Well, there's video of a Sin soloing Harpy Wraith. Can every sin do that? No. Can any Sin do that without +10 gear, 5.0, and experience? I don't think so.

Can a Barb solo Harpy Wraith? IDK, someone post a video of it.

Adroit - Lost City

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Technically speaking, the Veno is original, but Mystics are redundant.

They perform the same tasks that Venos do, Psy's do, Wizards do, and Clerics do.

The heal pets, they do some AOE, the have some magic Nukes, and they have some player based heals.

So... Roll a Veno if you want to, they are the only class that can reliably amp/curse bosses, and purge. Yeah, r9 bow can purge, and so can some other bows, but 1) R9 bows aren't very common and 2) the purge on a bow is pretty unreliable, seeing how it's a weapon proc. You cannot trigger it at will.

As for Sins being the new barbs... Well, there's video of a Sin soloing Harpy Wraith. Can every sin do that? No. Can any Sin do that without +10 gear, 5.0, and experience? I don't think so.

Can a Barb solo Harpy Wraith? IDK, someone post a video of it.

cheze solo'ing harpy was actually with a full +11/+12 set and was 2.5 aps. Just thought I'd mention it.

_Petal_ - Harshlands

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's true. High-refined, endgame Psychics, on the other hand...

Stop whining. It's no fault of the rest of us that you have some of the best Psychics on the game. (Hypnos.)

Endless, you win this attractive stamp. Move closer so I can stick it on your forehead.