Best of each.
Comments
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Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »Sorry, but I've gone on runs with this Veno and there are much better Venos - PvP and PvE wise.
i bet you think that NiaJade veno is better dont you?b:bye0 -
MrHanky - Harshlands wrote: »i bet you think that NiaJade veno is better dont you?
What do you think?0 -
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Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »
And for the life of me I can't name a single r9 sin that actually plays the class the way it should be played. All they do is "5APS + OCCULT ICE HURRRRDURRRRR."
EDIT: Ghey + est is censored. Lol wtf.
you forgot IG and Xpoison b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
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Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »I hate these threads. The necro was flat out dumb. There is NO SKILL REQUIRED in this game. This is a knowledge/gear/stats based game.
This, on the other hand, requires skill. .
Case in point:
When I said a R9 seeker would not be anything scary, I was right. A +10 sentient broadsword Gemini's me for 2500 with the proc active. That's not even enough to 1-shot me on a zerk crit, on a skill that takes 5 seconds of time to fully cast. Where are all the seekers now that told me "lol u just haven't played a good seeker 110 def. lvls = unstoppable"? Do you know how effective 110 defense levels is compared to a JoSD-sharded BM using magic marrow? The only thing people saw was "lol 110 defense lvl" without even taking into account how it actually works compared to other defenses.
With the right gear a magic marrowed BM is tankier vs magic than a seeker with 110 def. lvls. And that's not even taking into account the fact that it's much harder to DD a bm than a seeker because The BM locks you down.
With phy marrow and bell buff the BM still tanks physical damage infinitely better than a seeker with 110 def. lvls and no bell buff/no marrows.
Knowledge > skill in this game.
First off, knowledge is factored into skill. You can't react appropriately to your opponent's skills or strategies if you have no idea what the hell they're doing in terms of the class.
Also, a BM with magic marrow on will have more magic defense than a Seeker, and in terms of survivability including playstyle, BMs are harder to DD as an AA because of their stuns. Of course, without magic marrow on, Seekers have more magical defense.
But in terms of physical survivability including playstyle.. A Seeker will take a lot less damage than a BM unless they're not smart, like 98% of Seekers aren't. A BM uses most of its skills from melee range, as do the other melee classes, whereas Seekers are played most efficiently against melee classes by kiting, immobilizing, and then DDing. Sure, the BM may have a ton of stuns, but against the typical Sin/BM they'll endure a LOT more charm ticks than a well-played Seeker would.
Skill isn't required for any game. Nothing is required, technically. But it DOES have the potential to make a very large difference with some classes, and Seeker is one of those classes that is extremely dependent upon skill when it comes to fighting melee classes (particularly Sin and BM.)
Oh, and, a full JOSD sharded Seeker (assuming it's sage) with Krav Maga on would have 129 defense levels, not 110. Whereas a BM with the same gear would have 89. Still the same difference in defense levels, but a BM with bell and marrows will have higher defenses respective to the marrow.
On a side note: I have been quite disappointed with the damage of R9 Seekers lately, but I don't think I've been hit by any with decent refines and full R9.
Meh, I spend almost all of my time on PWI at West and Silver Pool, or wherever there are mass PvP gatherings if they're elsewhere. So, yes, my experience of people in game is excluded from those who spend 90% of their time in TW and 9% in SZ, which is a lot of people now that world PvP is full of incompetent Sins and R9s with nothing better to do than faceroll their keyboards.Itsuko - Harshlands wrote: »If this is really your list, I think you have a very limited experience of people in game. ijs.Donate towards my endgame build, please.
pwcalc.com/400d2e22e4b852e20 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »I swear to god, in the past week alone, I've met 7 different players who Occult iced me, then 9 seconds later, I was Occult iced AGAIN. ****** skill in the game by far... "Hey how about a ranged insta-cast six second stun with a 15 second cooldown?" The dev who said that should be shot; it's no wonder no one learns how to play the damn class.
EDIT: Ghey + est is censored. Lol wtf.
So someone else does notice this. The cooldown on occult is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low, especially considering how easy it is to use with Sins/APS classes. It should at least have a minute cooldown. Two would be great.
I'm glad I play a class that does extremely well against Sins, otherwise I probably would've quit this game as soon as I started PvPing for fun.Donate towards my endgame build, please.
pwcalc.com/400d2e22e4b852e20 -
XXZeonXx - Harshlands wrote: »Meh, I spend almost all of my time on PWI at West and Silver Pool, or wherever there are mass PvP gatherings if they're elsewhere. So, yes, my experience of people in game is excluded from those who spend 90% of their time in TW and 9% in SZ, which is a lot of people now that world PvP is full of incompetent Sins and R9s with nothing better to do than faceroll their keyboards.
I'll tell you about my experience... and I've played Perfect World for a very long time.
You have the PvPer's that are still pretty young in the game, and they get out at West or Silver and Spar. You see them there, having fun at it, shouting about the skills, what they used and getting a feel for this play-TW. Sometimes they die and yell 'wow dude you got me' and it's all kept very light and fun. And you get a few that get ganked, get hurt feelings and stomp off and log out.
Then you have the seasoned players. They play for keeps. If you step on that field, and they have issues with you, you are going down or they are going to fight you until you do. These people know their stuff and usually its one HeII of a match.
One type of person can float across the maps, moving from here to there totally clueless, and the other hitting T constantly, looking around, watching their back. They know the score, if they are seen and location reported, well.. prepare for a fight.
Some know the continual 3 hour TW's & the wars at World Bosses - they are not tiny nooblets that swatch each other with bent hands till the other pouts, cries and gives in... (the ones that practically LIVE in safezone)
Put some of those names on your list .... the ones that continally face being dropped on by half a guild just.... to be taken out.0 -
XXZeonXx - Harshlands wrote: »First off, knowledge is factored into skill. You can't react appropriately to your opponent's skills or strategies if you have no idea what the hell they're doing in terms of the class.
Also, a BM with magic marrow on will have more magic defense than a Seeker, and in terms of survivability including playstyle, BMs are harder to DD as an AA because of their stuns. Of course, without magic marrow on, Seekers have more magical defense.
But in terms of physical survivability including playstyle.. A Seeker will take a lot less damage than a BM unless they're not smart, like 98% of Seekers aren't. A BM uses most of its skills from melee range, as do the other melee classes, whereas Seekers are played most efficiently against melee classes by kiting, immobilizing, and then DDing. Sure, the BM may have a ton of stuns, but against the typical Sin/BM they'll endure a LOT more charm ticks than a well-played Seeker would.
Skill isn't required for any game. Nothing is required, technically. But it DOES have the potential to make a very large difference with some classes, and Seeker is one of those classes that is extremely dependent upon skill when it comes to fighting melee classes (particularly Sin and BM.)
Oh, and, a full JOSD sharded Seeker (assuming it's sage) with Krav Maga on would have 129 defense levels, not 110. Whereas a BM with the same gear would have 89. Still the same difference in defense levels, but a BM with bell and marrows will have higher defenses respective to the marrow.
On a side note: I have been quite disappointed with the damage of R9 Seekers lately, but I don't think I've been hit by any with decent refines and full R9.
Meh, I spend almost all of my time on PWI at West and Silver Pool, or wherever there are mass PvP gatherings if they're elsewhere. So, yes, my experience of people in game is excluded from those who spend 90% of their time in TW and 9% in SZ, which is a lot of people now that world PvP is full of incompetent Sins and R9s with nothing better to do than faceroll their keyboards.
A seeker just doesn't have the tools required to consistently kill people 1 on 1. They are there to support with AOE's.
If you compare Gemini Slash to Bm's heaven's flame damage-wise, the only difference is 350% weapon attack. On a fully buffed target, it might do 700 more pvp damage than Heaven's flame, except without that killer 200% normal damage curse.
All of the other seeker skills have mostly similar adds to a BM's axe skills. The seeker's aoe stlagstrike would be lucky to break 4 digits on a char sharded JoSD.
Don't get me wrong. The seeker CAN burst some big damage, with blade affinity, edged blur, etc. But it requires a HEAVY investment in sparks and a hefty amount of risk if it fails. If they're getting nuked on, they have no real way to stop the damage besides running away, burning quid pro quo, or using AD. Meanwhile BM's can stun, seal, diamond sutra, marrow, or leap.
In my whole time fighting seekers as a mystic I have NEVER felt pressured to switch into a defensive mode or felt that I was losing control of a fight. The same isn't true of a good BM.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.0 -
Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »burning quid pro quo.
Quid Pro Quo - An old bartering term meaning 'something for something'.. I thought it was interesting they used this as a name for a skill.0 -
Aizza - Harshlands wrote: »
Quid Pro Quo - An old bartering term meaning 'something for something'.. I thought it was interesting they used this as a name for a skill.
goods for serviceb:bye0 -
Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »A seeker just doesn't have the tools required to consistently kill people 1 on 1. They are there to support with AOE's.
If you compare Gemini Slash to Bm's heaven's flame damage-wise, the only difference is 350% weapon attack. On a fully buffed target, it might do 700 more pvp damage than Heaven's flame, except without that killer 200% normal damage curse.
All of the other seeker skills have mostly similar adds to a BM's axe skills. The seeker's aoe stlagstrike would be lucky to break 4 digits on a char sharded JoSD.
Don't get me wrong. The seeker CAN burst some big damage, with blade affinity, edged blur, etc. But it requires a HEAVY investment in sparks and a hefty amount of risk if it fails. If they're getting nuked on, they have no real way to stop the damage besides running away, burning quid pro quo, or using AD. Meanwhile BM's can stun, seal, diamond sutra, marrow, or leap.
In my whole time fighting seekers as a mystic I have NEVER felt pressured to switch into a defensive mode or felt that I was losing control of a fight. The same isn't true of a good BM.
We have more than enough to kill people in 1v1s. It just takes a lot more thought and strategy than random skill mashing to DD. With a +6 dual lunar sword, I can kill most Nirvana APS BMs with mediocre refines charmed or uncharmed, pretty much any Sin that's not sharded vit/JoSD/has +10 everything, uncharmed Barbs.. I don't get where people get the opinion that Seekers have trouble killing other classes.
..Gemini slash hits a lot harder than HF. Maybe I haven't seen the efficiency of the debuff in PvP as much since I usually QPQ it back and follow with Ion Spike/Heartseeker, but it definitely isn't comparable in damage. And gemini doesn't use any chi/sparks.
Stalagstrike isn't supposed to be a hard hitting skill. The same goes for Darkcloud Bolt. But it is an AoE that can be used quickly in succession with Darkcloud on the occasions when you will DD from melee range. Seeker secondary DD skills are much more spammable than BM ones, imo, and that's more important than the fact that the damage of some of the skills may be similar.
The goal of a Seeker in a fight against, say, BMs, isn't just to do a lot of damage. I'm not going to run up to some charmed APS BM and waste blade affinity on some useless skill spam when I have a lot of sparks. What a Seeker should be aiming for is to maximize the use and potential of the nukes/heavy damaging skills that we do have. Usually for me, the main aspects of this include spike damage, waiting for the opponent to exhaust their genie/anti-stun/control skills, making sure that I keep everything integral out of CD, etc.
In terms of avoiding damage.. With one of our 100 skills, we get two tele-stuns every three minutes. We can use a stance to attempt to keep stunning an option. We can use a stance that enables us to temporarily disable your weapon, which realistically drops all DDing from the opponent down to nothing. We have a stance that can debuff your attack and defense levels for quite a while. We have QPQ, which is usually saved for useful times, but may be used just for the sake of sealing if it's absolutely necessary. And if none of those work, I have a selection of genie skills to choose from.
Most fights against a Seeker that knows what it's doing will not put you into that "defensive mode" for most of the fight. But at the right time, a Seeker can put opponents into situations that are very difficult to escape. If they are successful in surviving, then the whole cycle of waiting for CD/chi/the right moment begins all over again.
Side note: This mostly pertains to enemies who can't 1-3 shot you and who you can't 1-3 shot. I'm sure you can imagine how those go. *cough*Psysinblack*cough*Donate towards my endgame build, please.
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A seeker could be a good 1v1'er.
It's just that it appears playing a Seeker would actually...
*gasp*
require thought and a knowledge of enemy playstyles.
And yeah, Seekers vs. Psy is a real uphill battle for the Seeker, though admittedly I've lost several times to seekers simply because I didn't take the fight seriously for that very reason. :P
Still, taken seriously, the Seeker's 30 defense levels are null in void, one big-hitter skill will ALWAYS be tanked thanks to SoR, NOTHING is stopping the Psy from entering Psy will after tanking that initial hit, the Seeker is severely lacking in anti-stun while the Psy is more than capable of stunning, and Psys in general are just squishy, so the slow-channeling hard-hitters are absolute overkill when a quick channeling normal skill would probably do the job.
The result is both classes hit each other VERY hard, but while the Psychic has various tools to avoid taking damage entirely and keep the Seeker from attacking, the Seeker is very limited in this regard. They can only stop the Psy for ~6 seconds, whereas a Psy can stack resistances and stuns for a good....40 seconds. The Seeker would need a good knowledge of Psychic playstyles, good timing, and equal gear, because you ARE gonna need to be able to tank a couple hits to kill the Psy.
If I had a dollar though for every time a Seeker tele stunned, set up both ultimate AOEs and then I Psy willed and asked him how his day was, I could be r9. I doubt many people will play the class because a lot of people are dumb as dirt, and Seeker definitely isn't a class that welcomes stupidity.I AGOREY0 -
y u keep talking in my 8 months old thred.Unban me.0
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How about we have some fun....get a full tt99 set(all classes)...+5 on everything.
Use the TT90 gold necklace.....end of cultivation belt....TT90 rings or misty forest..
As for helmm...idk ..deff not warsoul though something lower...cape TT90 or tauren cheif
Come to west and leave your epeen at home.0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »A seeker could be a good 1v1'er.
It's just that it appears playing a Seeker would actually...
*gasp*
require thought and a knowledge of enemy playstyles.
And yeah, Seekers vs. Psy is a real uphill battle for the Seeker, though admittedly I've lost several times to seekers simply because I didn't take the fight seriously for that very reason. :P
Still, taken seriously, the Seeker's 30 defense levels are null in void, one big-hitter skill will ALWAYS be tanked thanks to SoR, NOTHING is stopping the Psy from entering Psy will after tanking that initial hit, the Seeker is severely lacking in anti-stun while the Psy is more than capable of stunning, and Psys in general are just squishy, so the slow-channeling hard-hitters are absolute overkill when a quick channeling normal skill would probably do the job.
The result is both classes hit each other VERY hard, but while the Psychic has various tools to avoid taking damage entirely and keep the Seeker from attacking, the Seeker is very limited in this regard. They can only stop the Psy for ~6 seconds, whereas a Psy can stack resistances and stuns for a good....40 seconds. The Seeker would need a good knowledge of Psychic playstyles, good timing, and equal gear, because you ARE gonna need to be able to tank a couple hits to kill the Psy.
If I had a dollar though for every time a Seeker tele stunned, set up both ultimate AOEs and then I Psy willed and asked him how his day was, I could be r9. I doubt many people will play the class because a lot of people are dumb as dirt, and Seeker definitely isn't a class that welcomes stupidity.
Seeker vs Psy, in my opinion, is the most difficult matchup for Seekers, followed by Seeker vs Wiz. If the Psy's in black voodoo, then usually the first class to get in a stun/set up a good offense will get the kill.
I must admit, 99.9% of the time, if a Psy lands a stun on me (usually a surprise SoS or vector) while they're in black voodoo, I die. This is partially due to my genie still being incomplete, but it's true nonetheless. For this reason I save my anti-stuns and my disables for when the Psy does switch to black, and I have to make sure that I look for it. Psys that don't switch to black until they do land a stun are even more difficult to kill due to white making it difficult to deal charm-breaking damage without wasting what would normally be reserved for the moment they switched to black.
Tele-stun is one of those skills that is usually saved until a Psy switches to black voodoo or possibly for Psy Will. Opening with it on a Psy that's in white would be a waste of spark and a waste of cooldown time (unless the Seeker had Rewinding Gesture). Regardless, Psy Will is easy to get through as a Seeker due to having a potential 9-10 second silence and a four second tele-stun, along with another potential three second stun from a stance.
On top of all that, DDing through Psy Will is extremely easy to do with metal attacks due to how squishy black voodoo makes Psys (Longknife is excluded from this, FFFF- Heart of Steel Psy). I can't tell you how many times Psys try to Psy Will at the last moment, only to get their last bit of HP ticked off by some metal damage. The great and not so great part about this is for some reason, when a Psy puts Psy will up, they usually don't expect much damage to be done to them from a Seeker, so you don't see them ADing/genie. For a charmed Psy, they probably won't be killed via pure magic during Psy Will without heartseeker-edged blur/ion spike, etc, but it's important to have enough spark to tele-stun if it's not in cooldown.
Seekers do have two anti-stuns, one of which is instant cast, so they do help in a lot of cases.
55 defense levels > 30 defense levels > No defense levels. Not as useful as mag marrow, but it's definitely not useless. And yes, it is possible (and useful) for Seekers with no JoSD to have 55 defense levels.
And in terms of SoR, it's very easy to waste with a quick channel normal skill when it's seen.
Tl;dr: Psy vs Seeker for Seeker = Try to DD as much as possible during white/Psy Will while saving enough to successfully disable and kill them while they're in black. Otherwise you die. And crits on either side while the Psy is in black typically means death.
Oh, and I completely agree with that last statement. The reason people underestimate the class so much is because it doesn't shine unless you know other classes, know your class, and know what you're doing. Most Seekers don't meet any of those three requirements.ArmaniEx - Harshlands wrote: »How about we have some fun....get a full tt99 set(all classes)...+5 on everything.
Use the TT90 gold necklace.....end of cultivation belt....TT90 rings or misty forest..
As for helmm...idk ..deff not warsoul though something lower...cape TT90 or tauren cheif
Come to west and leave your epeen at home.
I'm more than open to this, and if you want to 1v1 me any time with said gear, I'd be more than happy to fight you with my current gear (which is a little worse than what you listed).
Edit: Didn't Oke try to set up something like this before now? Everybody complained about how unbalanced it would be, or something like that.Donate towards my endgame build, please.
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The one thing I respect about the seeker class is that it really takes some of that "old school" knowledge to play them effectively.
Seekers are not a DPS class - if they want to kill, they need to time charm cooldowns and skill combos efficiently while keeping track of skill cooldowns.
This REALLY reminds me of how I had to fight on my wiz before all this OP event gear, R9 ****. To kill barbs and magic-marrowed BM's you had to build up sparks, wait for the right moment, then spike them down right after or before a charm tick, while using the right genie skills. If the BM stunned you while you were in Sutra, that was 2 sparks wasted, and in all likelihood you just lost the battle.
Nowadays it's enough to just sleep-ult and hope a crit kills someone. Not many wizards take into account charm cooldown times anymore, and don't realize that they don't actually have to undine before every single nuke (hint: the first spell you cast on a BM during a duel shouldn't be undine).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.0 -
kk show me 1 nirvana veno that can kill me gogogogo
even after 3 months inactivity...show me^^ 0 -
There are very few seekers I can't kill and i'm a r8 veno with under-refined gear.
Either ppl don't know how to play them as they should be played or the class just plain SUCKS.0 -
MindCrime - Harshlands wrote: »There are very few seekers I can't kill and i'm a r8 veno with under-refined gear.
Either ppl don't know how to play them as they should be played or the class just plain SUCKS.
You would think Veno would be easy mode for a Seeker.
Nix bleed ----> Quid Pro quo ---> DD
Even if the veno doesn't make this mistake, their damage output without the nix is fairly limited. The Seeker on the other hand has good offense AND defense, only suffering from a lack of control skills and counter skills. Veno doesn't have many control skills either, though.I AGOREY0 -
MindCrime - Harshlands wrote: »There are very few seekers I can't kill and i'm a r8 veno with under-refined gear.
Either ppl don't know how to play them as they should be played or the class just plain SUCKS.
Obviously people don't know how to play them yet. We're pretty evenly matched and you're a very skilled Veno while I don't even have R8. Under-refined 8x-9x mold gear with a +6 lunar weapon ftw.Donate towards my endgame build, please.
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Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »The Seeker on the other hand has good offense AND defense
Wrong on both, unfortunately. Unless you were comparing the seeker to the phoenix pet.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.0 -
Lumpejudd - Harshlands wrote: »kk show me 1 nirvana veno that can kill me gogogogo even after 3 months inactivity...show me^^
A shame there was such a big gear difference when we dueled, it could have been a pretty fun fight ; )
Lucky Scarab, Demon Frost Scarab, Parasitic Nova, nix Pounce, Air Strand, Occult Ice if you're desperate. Thats 2s, 3s, 8s, 3s, 5s and 6s stuns/immobilize/seals/etc. respectively. Problem is that most venos only know Lucky Scarab and nothing else. Rarely have I ever seen another veno make use of their nix's Pounce and I know no other demon veno who understood that Demon Frost Scarab is actually useful. Maybe people have gotten better now though, but I doubt it with everyone rolling sins or cash shopping their way into 1-shot fests.Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Veno doesn't have many control skills either, though.
~Keripo[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Lucky Scarab, Demon Frost Scarab, Parasitic Nova, nix Pounce, Air Strand, Occult Ice if you're desperate. Thats 2s, 3s, 8s, 3s, 5s and 6s stuns/immobilize/seals/etc. respectively. Problem is that most venos only know Lucky Scarab and nothing else. Rarely have I ever seen another veno make use of their nix's Pounce and I know no other demon veno who understood that Demon Frost Scarab is actually useful. Maybe people have gotten better now though, but I doubt it with everyone rolling sins or cash shopping their way into 1-shot fests.
Stunning Blow also freezes for 8secs if it hits and the demon version has a 50% chance to stun for 3secs. Though...I guess you can say the problem with it is that you need to be in melee range to use it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
I Subtraction.
/blatant sig copy is blatant
105/105/105 obtained! b:cute0 -
A shame there was such a big gear difference when we dueled, it could have been a pretty fun fight ; )
Lucky Scarab, Demon Frost Scarab, Parasitic Nova, nix Pounce, Air Strand, Occult Ice if you're desperate. Thats 2s, 3s, 8s, 3s, 5s and 6s stuns/immobilize/seals/etc. respectively. Problem is that most venos only know Lucky Scarab and nothing else. Rarely have I ever seen another veno make use of their nix's Pounce and I know no other demon veno who understood that Demon Frost Scarab is actually useful. Maybe people have gotten better now though, but I doubt it with everyone rolling sins or cash shopping their way into 1-shot fests.
~Keripo
How the hell would a veno not know how 2 use pounce? Almost every frickin veno that tries to kill me lucky scarabs me, bleeds me, then ironwoods, then pounces for a chain stun, then spams their annoying lvl 1 nuke, then goes into fox form to try to kite and repeat the process over again.
Every veno basically uses the exact skill rotation everytime in pvp, regardless of class. Seems boring to me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I replied to the 7th topic on the 1st page of mystic forums, and got reported for necro. Plz save mystic forums.0 -
So the female char changes form then pounces... I bought another nidalee skin
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Pounce should be first, then lucky scarab. Nine times out of ten the opponent is a dumbass and will go for the nix first. Use the stun on Pounce while you can.0
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Nerco Nerco XXZeonXx is the best seeker on Harshlands and In all he is second only to Sympathi in my opinion. Sympathi did a whole tw(pve) by himself.0
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BM: Hmm Rome, Divine and Dispo
Wizzy: Rocketpower, Nurfed
Barb: wollfo and wolfbrian
Venomancer: MrsNosferatu and ofc Lumpe XD
Archer: Wytche
Cleric: Curso, CUCU
Psy: UrDian and sorry i have to say this but Long too :P
Sin: IPk_U_sin, joppe, guna and so on and so on XD
Seeker: Pistensau
Mystic: dont rly ever saw a good myst pvping
b:avoid0
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