Seeker Usable Weapons...

TigerLily - Lost City

Larkray - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I see the only people vehemently against weapon restrictions are the ones who are already going against the grain so to speak. Take Rawrgh for example, a 5aps barbarian. His HP suffers greatly. Sure he's gonna do more damage but barbs are NOT damage dealers. They are TANKS. If you wanted a DD'ing class with fists then should have rolled as a BM. I see Venos with fists and I just laugh and wait for the fox glitch to screen and report. The ONLY weapon that should be available to all classes are any weapon under level 20 for example. That way an arcane user can still obtain quicker chi with a pair of leather fists, and people are actually able to *gasp* play their class the way it was intended! :O

Who are you to assume that others prefer to play this game with restrictions just b/c its more suitable for you... Thats pretty self centered lol. A huge group of old players like the flexibility they get equipping different type of weapons. If some veno thinks having 3.33 base aps for pve and being useless pvp is good, let them and move on b:surrender. Ive seen a few of them and they tend to re-roll a BM on same account pretty fast in my experience.

How do you even know what is "intended" in the first place? Do you have access to classified documents from developers in China? The game is not what it used to, so even if something was intended 5-6 years ago doesn't mean its suitable right now with new patches, systems, classes, features etc. Pretty sure developers have ditched their initial ideas and plans about races, roles etc ages ago, so why are players still clinging on to it.

The most powerful weapons and gear in this game (rank9) are already class-specific. So is Rank8, which majority of players use endgame. So i really dont see why it matters for lower grade pve weapons (grade 12-13) like bows or fists/claws.

On topic; Seekers dont even need bows. I mean they can already solo exp room better than any other class and they have a huge amount of powerful ranged skills. They can kill 4 heads each wave easy. Bow users be happy if they get 2, 3 if full interval gear and red ball. I cant even find a situation where a Seekers would bother with a bow even if he could equip it, besides like Snowmen event. I personally think they should be able to use both fists/bows tho, but who knows what developers are thinking <_<

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

How come noone ever complains about armor not being class locked? Venos clerics and wizards should be forced to all wear arcane armor since they are magic-based classes.

Because they follow the weapon choice. Armor doesn't directly effect if someone can go and DD like crazy and solo stuff easily (to a point). Yes, if you have all +12 vit stones in your armor it will effect survivability, but it doesn't directly effect damage output. Your DD power is more directly effecting if you can efficiently solo stuff or be "OP."

SinfuINature - Harshlands

make everything useable by any class... you want an arcane barb go for it... i dont care... sins with fists... seekers using bows ftw i dont care...

Vaktoth - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

How come noone ever complains about armor not being class locked? Venos clerics and wizards should be forced to all wear arcane armor since they are magic-based classes.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Because they follow the weapon choice. Armor doesn't directly effect if someone can go and DD like crazy and solo stuff easily (to a point). Yes, if you have all +12 vit stones in your armor it will effect survivability, but it doesn't directly effect damage output. Your DD power is more directly effecting if you can efficiently solo stuff or be "OP."

Oh boy... you couldn't be more wrong Wunderkind, Asterelle's question is actually THE question as far as soloing "stuff". In this scenario survivability >>> damage output. It doesn't matter how much dps you have in front of a boss or mob that one-shots you. On the other hand, if it is unable to kill you it may take 3 days of continuous battle (idk, somebody may decide to do it unarmed just to get the kick of it), but you will kill the thing. The only case in which damage output somehow alters this fact is when you are buffed with bloodpaint, but even that goes only as far as whatever you have in front doesn't drop hour hp to zero with just one hit or just takes out more than what bp puts back.

An end game +12 refined set of LIGHT armor gives like 8k+ health. That's more than twice the 3k hp a 3str/2dex/0vit (dd build) level 100 bm has without gear, and heavy armor gives a few K's more.

EDIT: I didn't see the "efficiently" in bold, if you include cost in your criteria then yes, damage output makes a lot of difference, though only after survivability is achieved.

Also more related to thread topic, there's the fact that casters who stat for non-arcane armor are giving up damage output to obtain better survivability, and guess what: IT'S THEIR CHOICE. Some people may not like it, but as said before, if that's the case just don't squad with them, as that is as far as YOUR choices go.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Oh boy... you couldn't be more wrong Wunderkind, Asterelle's question is actually THE question as far as soloing "stuff". In this scenario survivability >>> damage output. It doesn't matter how much dps you have in front of a boss or mob that one-shots you. On the other hand, if it is unable to kill you it may take 3 days of continuous battle (idk, somebody may decide to do it unarmed just to get the kick of it), but you will kill the thing.

You should try doing higher level TTs like 3-3. If you can't kill the boss fast enough eventually he will sleep/stun your entire squad, one shot your cleric, buff himself for 5 aps, and purge your entire squad.

fuzzywuzz

Sparc - Harshlands wrote: »

. ........Or we could just completely mess up the game and limit bows to clerics, fists to wizzards, daggers to barbs, claws to venos, magic swords to BMs..... get the picture ???

The panda got a good chuckle out of this... it would be hilarious if only for a week to watch the ensuing chaos. b:chuckle

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if you cant even find a couple of skills to kill the heads, u should really quit fc.

....However, ultimately the above quote sums it up.

Melee class only ever, from Fuzzy's experience, touched a bow for the heads in frost and maybe a harpy or two. So what? Deal with it and learn to adapt. Seekers have a few promising skills to deal with the situation, so learn away around it.

The only QQ the panda has is not being able to use his poleaxe with the seeker... a perfectly good +10 axe going to waste, however, like me needs to, Fuzzy will learn a new path with the seeker and find a new way that works.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

You should try doing higher level TTs like 3-3. If you can't kill the boss fast enough eventually he will sleep/stun your entire squad, one shot your cleric, buff himself for 5 aps, and purge your entire squad.

Truth.

Even a pure vit barb is fubar when he 'zerks.

Vaktoth - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

You should try doing higher level TTs like 3-3. If you can't kill the boss fast enough eventually he will sleep/stun your entire squad, one shot your cleric, buff himself for 5 aps, and purge your entire squad.

Never been there but saw a video in youtube... every body started running away like crazy in all directions and half the squad died.

However, I understand this was recently made that way to keep people from soloing it, right? Now I think you at least need a squad to be able to kill it fast enough as you say, or is it still soloable?

BTW, I'd say the fact that a boss uses 5aps somehow supports it's availability for players, wouldn't you agree?

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver

Vaktoth - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh boy... you couldn't be more wrong Wunderkind, Asterelle's question is actually THE question as far as soloing "stuff". In this scenario survivability >>> damage output. It doesn't matter how much dps you have in front of a boss or mob that one-shots you. On the other hand, if it is unable to kill you it may take 3 days of continuous battle (idk, somebody may decide to do it unarmed just to get the kick of it), but you will kill the thing. The only case in which damage output somehow alters this fact is when you are buffed with bloodpaint, but even that goes only as far as whatever you have in front doesn't drop hour hp to zero with just one hit or just takes out more than what bp puts back.

An end game +12 refined set of LIGHT armor gives like 8k+ health. That's more than twice the 3k hp a 3str/2dex/0vit (dd build) level 100 bm has without gear, and heavy armor gives a few K's more.

EDIT: I didn't see the "efficiently" in bold, if you include cost in your criteria then yes, damage output makes a lot of difference, though only after survivability is achieved.

Also more related to thread topic, there's the fact that casters who stat for non-arcane armor are giving up damage output to obtain better survivability, and guess what: IT'S THEIR CHOICE. Some people may not like it, but as said before, if that's the case just don't squad with them, as that is as far as YOUR choices go.

You missed the only bolded word in the whole thing, I have to say it did make me laugh a bit b:laugh.

+12 light armor build for my sins gives me 20k+ HP (with 3 vit base) and guess what I can still get one shot by Arma on a badly timed day. You can't put full stock in HP/pdef. A barb with 40k HP can still die quick on Arma, so the point for arma .... kill him as fast as you can.

The point to why no one cares about armer restrictions is the fact that people decide if they want to go interval or not (and based on their weapon) they then decide on the appropriate armor for that build. People do not look at the items in the game and decide their armor first then look into what weapons they can use with it.

EDIT: and to answer your question my sin can solo 3-3

Yulk_owns - Lost City

Bellcross - Harshlands wrote: »

From what i noticed Seekers can ONLY use Swords and Blades (not old Claw ones)...this is a bit disappointing... i mean, i wanted to have a bow as well, it's actually a bit unfair considering that BM's can use Bows, Sins can use Bows and Fists, Archers can use Fists and even Barbs can use Bows and Fists...will something be done about this?

For a class that has a high dex attribute it's unfair not being able to use a Bow... b:shocked

PS: what will we do at FC's when we have to kill heads? b:cry b:surrender

This is a sign for all weapons to be class exclusive only. Like crossbow and sling shots for archers only, daggers for assassins only. If you want to use bows use an archer. If fists / claws, use a BM.

Vaktoth - Sanctuary

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You missed the only bolded word in the whole thing, I have to say it did make me laugh a bit b:laugh.

+12 light armor build for my sins gives me 20k+ HP (with 3 vit base) and guess what I can still get one shot by Arma on a badly timed day. You can't put full stock in HP/pdef. A barb with 40k HP can still die quick on Arma, so the point for arma .... kill him as fast as you can.

The point to why no one cares about armer restrictions is the fact that people decide if they want to go interval or not (and based on their weapon) they then decide on the appropriate armor for that build. People do not look at the items in the game and decide their armor first then look into what weapons they can use with it.

EDIT: and to answer your question my sin can solo 3-3

lol... 20k sounds like a lot compared to my roughly 5.8k...

And given how much qq there is regarding the difficulty of the new 3-3 it figures it's quite impresive that you can solo it.

If you don't mind I'd like to ask you a couple of questions:

EDIT: my second wall of text got cut and I'm to lazy to rewrite it. So end of argument for me. See you and enjoy the game.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

20k on LA ? power of money so much money . . (b:surrender) < really a lot if you ask me

Fistol - Raging Tide

Sparc - Harshlands wrote: »

It doesn't entirely bother me, I mean heck, it's how the game was initially designed so... It's meant to be I guess. It only stinks if you're looking for a specific class for a specific reason, only to find out after they join the squad that they aren't what the squad actually needs since they deviated from what one would believe to be the build for that class.

it bother me more that people in the game only believe only certain class using certain build are the only ones that can fill the role for a specific group.
That almost make it feel like racism.

How about asking for role rather then class. If barb wants to DD, why does he have to reroll another class to do it?

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

20k on LA ? power of money so much money . . (b:surrender) < really a lot if you ask me

Yes, I'm a bit late, but +10 refines, full vitality stones, and a cube neck result in about 17k. You would only be able to use that build if you had all the pieces of your -int so you stay at 3.33 base and 5.0 sparked. 17k HP for a sin is a **** ton to work with especially with our regen from BP. On top of all of that our skills just make it silly, deaden nerves to stop one shots, focused mind to evade damage, tidal protection to not get sealed / stunned / silenced makes us a PvE machine.

brent40

Fak! why not just make other class skills avaiable too!


I'd love to take my BM over and purchase some sin skills...

Koia - Dreamweaver

I hope this won't seem off-topic if i squeeze in this question/concern. Now i rolled a seeker and i really like getting good quality gear. there was this time that i wanted to get a legendary sword and i notice that the classes it was limited to did NOT include "Seeker" at the end of the class limit line (it was in red). I was afraid to spend hard-earned in-game coin should i not be able use it. So i ended continuing to level until i could get the next available legendary sword (which were dual btw).

I was just wondering why a class that's only limited to swords and blades is being even more limited to certain ones as well. Is that a glitch in the game?

Thanks for any input/comments/replies regarding this.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

It would help if you mention the name of the sword you are talking about.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

It was probably some magic sword.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

"... of a cleric whipping out a set of clams in a TT run. "
...clams? is this a misspelling, or a name for something i hadnt heard of yet?

but yes, i really agree with you about classes sticking to the weapons intended for their class, perhaps with the exception of a low level bow...for shooting snowmen!b:chuckle when someone uses a weapon from another class, they lose the ability to use their skills...where is the sense of that? i know its all the rage now, to somehow make your character use claws or something that goes really fast, but at the price of losing all their class's skills. bad tradeoff, to my thinking. one of my archers has a pair of fists that someone made for me, swearing that it would help take down mobs faster. nope, it got me in closer in reach, and i got killed faster. archers arent supposed to be figting up close, but far away.so folks stick to your class' weaponry...you look better and play better, and dont look freakish!

Din_Toran - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah, somewhere I have a screenie of a cleric whipping out a set of clams in a TT run. I mean really, some things are just stupid. If anything, the classes should be limited to their accordant weapons.

Archer: Bow, Sling, Crossbow
Assasin: Daggers
Barbarian: Axe/Hammer, Polearm
Blademaster: Axe/Hamer, Fist/Claw, Sword, Polearms
Cleric: Wand, Glaive, Pataka, Magic Sword (which should do more phys damage for mele)
Mystic: Wand, Glaive, Pataka, Magic Sword (which should do more phys damage for mele)
Psychic: Soulsphere
Seeker: Sword/Claymore (A claymore is a form of sword for you noobies that ccan't seem to tell.)
Venomancer: Wand, Glaive, Pataka, Magic Sword (which should do more phys damage for mele)
Wizard: Wand, Glaive, Pataka, Magic Sword (which should do more phys damage for mele)

But they will never limit the previous classes because it will mess up everyone that's spent oodles on carrying the wrong weapon. Then you've got a rather lage part of the playerbase complaining basically because they were hax and it's broken now. (really fixed though)

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"... of a cleric whipping out a set of clams in a TT run. "
...clams? is this a misspelling, or a name for something i hadnt heard of yet?

but yes, i really agree with you about classes sticking to the weapons intended for their class, perhaps with the exception of a low level bow...for shooting snowmen!b:chuckle when someone uses a weapon from another class, they lose the ability to use their skills...where is the sense of that? i know its all the rage now, to somehow make your character use claws or something that goes really fast, but at the price of losing all their class's skills. bad tradeoff, to my thinking. one of my archers has a pair of fists that someone made for me, swearing that it would help take down mobs faster. nope, it got me in closer in reach, and i got killed faster. archers arent supposed to be figting up close, but far away.so folks stick to your class' weaponry...you look better and play better, and dont look freakish!

Um... If you died using fist as an archer your probably low level and not ready for fist. My friends archer at 97 uses the 85 frost fist i bought her and DD's next to me in frost without dying, maybe because she knows how to survive? Try using pots? If a class feels like using a different weapon let them. On my sin i have fun whacking people to death with the hh60 sword, that's my choice lol. I also have 7x instant strike fist, gives me same aps as my Nirvana daggers and i don't have to damage my own in the process to get chi off an NPC. Guess what, i also carry 4 different bows on me lol.

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear

Classes can be played anyway the user wants to.

It doesn't mean that a class is innately more built and inclined to fill a role that it has to go that role.

Minakon - Lost City

this is so funny >

i noticed that most the ppl that want class restriction for weappons are but'hurt or plain gelous of ppl that indeed know how to play they'r class and to use multiple weappons

for example i have an archer and i spent alot of coins on nirvana +11 claws

> who are you ppl to decide what weappon we may use or not lol

> u think is eazy to have different good weappons? > try spending 700 mil for one and then talk.

and yes lol i would want them to take down all the weappon / class restriction > cause as sin uses bow
> i would sure as hell use some daggers on my archer. just 4 the hell of it.

Fintan - Lost City

This thread is making me really want to hyper a new cleric up and make it high-APS... b:angry

Like I keep saying, at least there'd be a place for a high-APS cleric in Nirvana runs! b:chuckle

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver

Fintan - Lost City wrote: »

This thread is making me really want to hyper a new cleric up and make it high-APS... b:angry

Like I keep saying, at least there'd be a place for a high-APS cleric in Nirvana runs! b:chuckle

b:chuckle Make it so it can steal aggro from the other high aps classes.

Wunderkind - Dreamweaver

I still want my seeker to be able to use a bow QQ

Fintan - Lost City

Getter_Robo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:chuckle Make it so it can steal aggro from the other high aps classes.

Oh, that's the plan! Believe me, it ought to be some fun... b:chuckle

Funny thing is that it may be interesting indeed... Go sage and stick Cloud Eruption on a genie... Since your only skills available then are your sparks and Master Li's... b:chuckle

Just keep NPC trash magic weapon around for buffing.

[edit]Just to derail the original thread further: It's a Clawric! and another!... Someone suggested Windshield for the genie, in addition to Cloud Eruption. It's almost tempting to go post this to the Cleric forum and listen to the WTF chorus... It's entirely feasible to do, with enough cash shopping and friendly Frost runs (since the poor character won't actually be useful for anything till 100)...

But really, should this even be possible? On the tangential subject of the OP, the gear's not the problem in this case, really. It's the fact that I can equip a Deicide on a cleric in the first place. All that interval gear is useless to a cleric if it's using a "proper" weapon. A 3 APS glaive is something to laugh at, not fear... b:pleased[/edit]

MasterJigz - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It would help if you mention the name of the sword you are talking about.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It was probably some magic sword.

i can't find the low-lvl legendary blade's name but the other example is Dark Flash (blade) "Seeker" is not listed on Requisite class line.

...and no Mayfly, i have been playing this game long enough on 3 different servers (since 2008 -- all clerics and a wiz) to know what a level 30 and below legendary magic sword is (there's only 2 and i have used/manufactured both)

Edit: my apologies.. a barb told me that Dark Flash was a fist weapon. It's the description in the game that confused me... and I think that is the case with that low-level (pre-lvl30) "blade/sword" that i saw.

spakkii

i hate being a noob...so hard to pick up the lingo
lmao...but seeker is the new job out right?
just trying to make sure

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

MasterJigz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i can't find the low-lvl legendary blade's name but the other example is Dark Flash (blade) "Seeker" is not listed on Requisite class line.

that's because dark flash is a claw. you can tell from the 1.43 aps listed for it; only claws (and fists?) have that.

yes, i know it's listed as a "blade" both in-game and in pwdatabase (which follows the game); for some unfathomable reason the genesis expansion renamed all claws to "blades", and this hasn't been fixed yet. do a search on "Deicide", you'll see that too is a "blade" now. it only serves to confuse people, because now the game has two completely different weapon classes sharing a name.

azurluen

Looks like the Game names Claws as Blades. And Seekers arent on the requisite class. Also, imagine a Seeker with it's Claws/Fist at it's back? =o_O=

Also, about that... what I find annoying it's the fact that this class line uses too much space. Why don't make it two lines or something?