Sage vs Demon

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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I'm a demon wiz and I do just fine in TW ty...
    and yes I know I'm not 10X yet, but I can get away with that on this server tbh.

    Anyways! In TW I can spam skills way faster than a sage wiz can, which makes me much more useful in cata barb killing.

    Not to mention demon spark is wonderful in TW.

    As for sage wizards in 1v1: How is a sutra'd BIDS crit not good for 1v1? Nuff said.

    /inb4genieskillcounter- just make your opponent use occult ice/holy path and they're yours, ijs.
  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    I'm a demon wiz and I do just fine in TW ty...
    and yes I know I'm not 10X yet, but I can get away with that on this server tbh.

    Anyways! In TW I can spam skills way faster than a sage wiz can, which makes me much more useful in cata barb killing.

    Not to mention demon spark is wonderful in TW.

    Or I can just ulti and oneshot the entire cata squad.

    Demon spark is wonderful. It helps me see who to stun/kill first.
  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »
    Or I can just ulti and oneshot the entire cata squad.

    Demon spark is wonderful. It helps me see who to stun/kill first.

    Feel free to exaggerate to try to prove points, but it doesn't work too well. Fact of the matter is, most cata barbs won't drop to 1 BIDS. They're basically a boss for all intents are purposes, and dps works better on bosses. And I've yet to see a cata squad stupid enough to huddle together for a BIDS. Usually clerics are flying, bms are running about stunning, everyone else is scattered using spells.

    BIDS is flashy too, but it doesn't make you invincible for a few seconds. And I don't know what computer you have, but most of us can't run on normal settings in TW- almost all of us are tab targeting and would never even see someone spark.
  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Feel free to exaggerate to try to prove points, but it doesn't work too well. Fact of the matter is, most cata barbs won't drop to 1 BIDS. They're basically a boss for all intents are purposes, and dps works better on bosses. And I've yet to see a cata squad stupid enough to huddle together for a BIDS. Usually clerics are flying, bms are running about stunning, everyone else is scattered using spells.

    BIDS is flashy too, but it doesn't make you invincible for a few seconds. And I don't know what computer you have, but most of us can't run on normal settings in TW- almost all of us are tab targeting and would never even see someone spark.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12121682&postcount=13

    Pretttttyyy sure I wasn't exaggerating.
  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »
    I'm sure they aren't saying demons cant TW or sages can't pvp 1v1, but you have to admit there are (at least a 'slight') advantage for demon wizzies to 1v1 because of their control skills. And vice versa for sage wizards have a (slight) advantage in TW/group pvp left and right because of the chance of chi reductions of aoes, not to mention sage BIDS. Pretty much an ulti spam fest if u dont die and have cloud eruption (which i dont have, but still)

    @Adroit
    That's what i wanted to say when i wrote sage is better for TW while demon is better for 1v1 PK because if you look at what you get when you pick a certain tree its obvious which skills you should use.

    Sage
    better chi generation due to master li's technique + sage pyrogram
    ( even if the higher DPS of Demon due to channeling bonuses slightly reduces the total advantage of sage here)
    chance to redu ce chi cost + crit on ultis
    less chi for distance shrink
    faster cooldown for wop
    lower hp consumption for emberstorm
    additional dmg for hailstorm
    + masteries which increase overall dmg

    Demon
    better physical def
    faster channeling
    more control skills like chance to stun on stonerain
    increased chance to freeze on hailstorm ...
    dmg boost on skills for single targets ( gush +ss)
    demon wellspring works as mini sutra
    masteries give higher overall critrate
    ....

    I still believe that demon wizards are better suited for 1v1 situations because in a 1v1 it is essential how fast you can get a hit off so higher DPS helps a lot here. I mean a sage wiz can also get decent DPS compared to a demon wiz when but the sage wiz has to have more -chan but with equal gear the demon wiz will be faster. On the other hand i see sage wiz more like an artillery unit less suited for a battle on the frontlines but a weapon of mass destruction when covered by the team in TW. The chi generation of sage helps a lot here in reducing the time until the next ulti is rdy because even if some of the demon ultis effects like the chan interrupt on BT are welcome in TW the demon wiz wont be able to spam the ultis like a sage wiz. So when you refer to a difference in play style you are right too because choosing 1 path means choosing your prefered skills from the wiz arsenal for the future but since every skill got its use you end up with benefits for sage = skills for multiple targets demon = skills for 1 target.

    greetz harm0wnie
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Didn't read all of this.. but going demon doesn't all of a sudden turn you into a dps class. In PvP.. the extra -channeling on demon skills isn't going to mean you get 2 skills off in the time sage gets 1.. it means that you can get off a skill more quickly so you can begin kiting again. Wizards will never be a dps class.. cast time will ensure that. The advantage of a wizard is ranged AoE DPH, and cultivation doesn't change that.. it just changes how you do it.
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  • DaKillanator - Raging Tide
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide Posts: 2,965 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »
    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12121682&postcount=13

    Pretttttyyy sure I wasn't exaggerating.

    outdated screenshot is outdated yo.

    You said it in your own post, people didn't usually have more than +5 refines on armor, which in a TW with good factions, would never happen with a cata barb. My facs cata barbs have at least +8, the better ones +10, and the barbs in this server's power fac having +10-12. 1 shotting a 30k hp barb is not an easy thing to do, ijs.

    And I like the pic of BT, especially since sage BT = demon BT b:chuckle
  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »
    outdated screenshot is outdated yo.

    You said it in your own post, people didn't usually have more than +5 refines on armor, which in a TW with good factions, would never happen with a cata barb. My facs cata barbs have at least +8, the better ones +10, and the barbs in this server's power fac having +10-12. 1 shotting a 30k hp barb is not an easy thing to do, ijs.

    And I like the pic of BT, especially since sage BT = demon BT b:chuckle

    And what? Now with r9 weps hitting nv barbs it's the same deal as my cv hitting tt90. My r8 +5 soulsphere hits barbs with full +10/11/12 for 5 digit crits without amps easily.

    If you can't oneshot cata squads after undining the barb with a +10 r8 or +10-12 r9 wep and sage bids proc then you need to uninstall.
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited March 2011
    I find that rather insulting. 1 shotting 40k hp, 15k mdef, and 25k pdef isn't something we should all be expecting to do.

    you know who they are, too. as the few with that much hp are all in guild with us, I believe. b:sweat
  • Saturday - Harshlands
    Saturday - Harshlands Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »
    If you can't oneshot cata squads after undining the barb with a +10 r8 or +10-12 r9 wep and sage bids proc then you need to uninstall.
    are you okay bro?
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    prof wrote: »
    I find that rather insulting. 1 shotting 40k hp, 15k mdef, and 25k pdef isn't something we should all be expecting to do.

    you know who they are, too. as the few with that much hp are all in guild with us, I believe. b:sweat

    us? You saying you joined essence on your pwi bm? lol
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  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    saturday - Harshlands wrote: »
    are You Okay Bro?

    No! Where's Sunday?

    @Adroit

    prof has been in Ess for forever. he's nykage. you didn't know?
  • prof
    prof Posts: 1,111
    edited March 2011
    b:shutupb:quiet
  • Evanera - Heavens Tear
    Evanera - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,423 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    omg not this **** again ...

    btw demon BT is the best skill to use on cata barbs, so you can interrupt their turtle skill.
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  • Agatio - Harshlands
    Agatio - Harshlands Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    omg not this **** again ...
    btw demon BT is the best skill to use on cata barbs, so you can interrupt their turtle skill.
    I don't know how would u interrupt 1 sec channel invoke with 3 sec channel tempest :P
  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    agatio - Harshlands wrote: »
    i Don't Know How Would U Interrupt 1 Sec Channel Invoke With 3 Sec Channel Tempest :p

    duh, obviously you sutra your BT.
  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »
    duh, obviously you sutra your BT.

    ye because 4 sparks is a non factor with wiz high dps ...b:surrender and even if you have enough chi i rather would make double (triple) spark -->BladeTempest to make sure the one hit is hard enough. Or you can simply play a fishy where channeling of spells is ridiculously low

    greetz harm0wnie
  • HexOmega - Dreamweaver
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,342 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ye because 4 sparks is a non factor with wiz high dps ...b:surrender and even if you have enough chi i rather would make double (triple) spark -->BladeTempest to make sure the one hit is hard enough. Or you can simply play a fishy where channeling of spells is ridiculously low

    greetz harm0wnie

    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/11299
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/11301
    i like potato
  • MageFizban - Lost City
    MageFizban - Lost City Posts: 1,158 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    i think sarcasm is lost upon some people.
  • Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear
    Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,619 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    All hope is lost :\
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  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/11299
    http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/11301
    how often can you do that with apos i mean apo items got cooldown + sutra got 1 min cooldown so even if you use those

    a) when using sutra --> BT like suggested ( 2 spark apo would be used)
    while chan apo -->BT would do the same result with 2 sparks left

    b) if you use those apo items
    sage/demon spark -->spark apo + cloud erruption+(frenzy) -->sutra -->BT
    would be the best hit but after you have done that devestating blow you will end up
    with low chi sutra on cd (lower def)

    Personally i find it really hard to regain chi in TW because im still squishy and die often and i guess some deaths will still occur even with higher lvls ( sins out of stealth) so i dont like to overuse apo. Moreover we are only 2 lvl 90+ wiz in my faction who participate in TW and it is sad but i have to admit that i hardly have cover to get my aoes off or a bm who coordinates his HF with me. So i normally prefer to stay back a bit and just use normal bids or BT when i got the 2 sparks

    greetz harm0wnie
  • Fistol - Raging Tide
    Fistol - Raging Tide Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    May I then suggestion Cloud eruption skill from genie. You should partner a bm, its like having 2 wizard casting Bids with HF on the enemy.
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  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Fistol - Raging Tide wrote: »
    May I then suggestion Cloud eruption skill from genie. You should partner a bm, its like having 2 wizard casting Bids with HF on the enemy.
    nice idea too bad that the bms are busy pwning people with their fists instead of HFing

    greetz harm0wnie
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