Sage vs Demon

lastwarrior85

I am from the archosaur server which is a relatively new server as we all know. I wanted to be a sage wiz but in my server I have a problem with availability of sage skills. They are harder to get than the demon ones. Should I just roll a demon wiz instead?


I also have a question about channeling and I didn't wanna make another thread for this. At what -%channeling do you actually notice a difference?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

lastwarrior85 wrote: »

I am from the archosaur server which is a relatively new server as we all know. I wanted to be a sage wiz but in my server I have a problem with availability of sage skills. They are harder to get than the demon ones. Should I just roll a demon wiz instead?


I also have a question about channeling and I didn't wanna make another thread for this. At what -%channeling do you actually notice a difference?

All skills on our server are vacant. Everyone is doing a sin, seeker, mystic.

If you find alot of demon skills, I'd just go for that. IMO sage is better because I like TW better (it seems like alot of demon skills benefit against single targets while sage skills benefit aoe targets), but there really is very little difference. Over all, they are about equal.

But what is not equal is lvl 10 skills vs the sage/demon versions. So if you can see yourself getting 10 demon wiz skills fairly easily, but only 3 sage skills, snatch up the demon ones and go demon.

The answer might very well be different on different servers, but yea, our server is in short supply of everything because of lazy high levels that don't want to farm **** b:avoid

PS, if you go sage I have a couple books left I think. FoW and maybe another one, can't remember. Probably well spring or morning dew or something equally dull.

MageFizban - Lost City

lastwarrior85 wrote: »

I also have a question about channeling and I didn't wanna make another thread for this. At what -%channeling do you actually notice a difference?

Depends on your threshold of perception haha. Here's a link: absolute threshold.

But usually people say around -30% channeling and you can noticeably tell there's a decrease in channeling on the long channeling skills (ie ultis, dpyro, morning dew, glacial snare, maybe sandstorm).

Adroit - Lost City

Every once in a while I want to test something on my mage but my gear on my cleric.. and missing that 18% is very noticable for me. It really only shaves off a few fractions of a second in most cases, but for some reason it feels like alot.

prof

it feels like a lot because of what it actually removes. it's not just cutting off channeling, it's also removing cast. it's disappointing to see everybody using matk in their end-game weapons, they just can't grasp how powerful that extra -6% is. ._.

I maintain -49% with full pdef accessories, and -58% with my cast adorn. I wish I could upload a video of that, you'd all **** bricks.

MageFizban - Lost City

prof wrote: »

it feels like a lot because of what it actually removes. it's not just cutting off channeling, it's also removing cast. it's disappointing to see everybody using matk in their end-game weapons, they just can't grasp how powerful that extra -6% is. ._.

I maintain -49% with full pdef accessories, and -58% with my cast adorn. I wish I could upload a video of that, you'd all **** bricks.

Take a camera, put a macro on a mob while manually recording a video with the camera.

Easy and no lag. ****ty quality vid, but whatever. We'd get the point.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

prof wrote: »

it feels like a lot because of what it actually removes. it's not just cutting off channeling, it's also removing cast. it's disappointing to see everybody using matk in their end-game weapons, they just can't grasp how powerful that extra -6% is. ._.

I maintain -49% with full pdef accessories, and -58% with my cast adorn. I wish I could upload a video of that, you'd all **** bricks.

So you would shard rank 9 weapon with savant stones for -16% channel?

warsoul -3
rank 8 chest -6
rank 9 weapon with savants -16
sleeves -6
rings -12

thats -43% - you use cape for -6% too? most would do better with the 400-500 pdef from cape, no?

Not talking private server . . . . .

AgentPotato - Archosaur

Erm, I don't think -channel actually removes casting. If that were the case, when you use sutra, the skills would be instant like they are on private servers with extremely high -channeling rates. But whenever I see a wizzy use sutra, they still sit there casting sandstorm for what seems like forever, just like normal.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

AgentPotato - Archosaur wrote: »

Erm, I don't think -channel actually removes casting. If that were the case, when you use sutra, the skills would be instant like they are on private servers with extremely high -channeling rates. But whenever I see a wizzy use sutra, they still sit there casting sandstorm for what seems like forever, just like normal.

I think prof only plays a wiz on private server . . .

No get off the wizard forum, ELF!!!!

AgentPotato - Archosaur

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

I think prof only plays a wiz on private server . . .

No get off the wizard forum, ELF!!!!

Hey, I always pick wizzy when I play on private servers, not to mention I have a level 64 wizzy on arch. I take offense at your belittlement of my capabilities to understand what a wizzy is really all about. b:lipcurl

I made a type earlier though, its -casting stones that you most often find on private servers, not -channeling like on pwi.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

AgentPotato - Archosaur wrote: »

I take offense at your belittlement of my capabilities to understand what a wizzy is really all about. b:lipcurl

I did no such thing. I just don't like the smell of ya . . .

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

The reason that -chan seems to make channeling way faster when it only actually shaves off a second or so is because a second or so can be an eternity when a 10X vit build cata barb is running at you with the intent to cast arma b:chuckle

MageFizban - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

The reason that -chan seems to make channeling way faster when it only actually shaves off a second or so is because a second or so can be an eternity when a 10X vit build cata barb is running at you with the intent to cast arma b:chuckle

Of course. Because when you're pulling a cata, the best thing to do is sacrifice half your hp trying to kill the ranged classes **** you when all they have to do is blink or holy path away.

Evanera - Heavens Tear

Or just tank it.

MageFizban - Lost City

Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Or just tank it.

Or just undine + start channeling bids then expel yourself. Orrrrr just do it all in abs domain.

Evanera - Heavens Tear

Or just cast Sutra then emberstorm and not expel yourself.

MageFizban - Lost City

Evanera - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Or just cast Sutra then emberstorm and not expel yourself.

Oh yeah, I forgot about sutra + emberstorm. That's much better. Arma vs Emberstorm. Epic battles ensue.

prof

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

So you would shard rank 9 weapon with savant stones for -16% channel?

warsoul -3
rank 8 chest -6
rank 9 weapon with savants -16
sleeves -6
rings -12

thats -43% - you use cape for -6% too? most would do better with the 400-500 pdef from cape, no?

Not talking private server . . . . .

I would use cast stones in rank 9, as it is my preference. however, perhaps if I were sage, I would use matk/atk level stones. my reasoning is, in my opinion, demon is all about the attack rate - sage is all about how much damage you're going to do in one hit.

in pwi I've been considering the -6% cloak, as my cloudcharger cost a small fortune on its own here.. I'll decide this later.

if you're questioning my 49%, I have hh99 wrist+boots for the -3% set effect, as well as nirvana pants for another -3%.

I'm not talking private server, either. why do you automatically assume everything I say is private server related?

MageFizban - Lost City

prof wrote: »

I would use cast stones in rank 9, as it is my preference. however, perhaps if I were sage, I would use matk/atk level stones. my reasoning is, in my opinion, demon is all about the attack rate - sage is all about how much damage you're going to do in one hit.

in pwi I've been considering the -6% cloak, as my cloudcharger cost a small fortune on its own here.. I'll decide this later.

if you're questioning my 49%, I have hh99 wrist+boots for the -3% set effect, as well as nirvana pants for another -3%.

I'm not talking private server, either. why do you automatically assume everything I say is private server related?

It's his way of dismissing your argument so he doesn't octuple post as a response. Must be a defense mechanism. He doesn't realize Malaysia is a country and MY-EN is an official server. PW-CN must also be a private server in his opinion.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

prof wrote: »

I'm not talking private server, either. why do you automatically assume everything I say is private server related?

Because you don't play a wizard on pwi b:surrender

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

He doesn't realize Malaysia is a country and MY-EN is an official server.

Of course I do, its a very nice server that didn't get Tideborn until what? a few months ago?

And these are the pwi forums, not the my-en forums.

And not the lost city forums.

Oh, and not the psychic forums. Begone, fish!

Mage_Fizban - Dreamweaver

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

And these are the pwi forums, not the my-en forums.

And not the lost city forums.

Oh, and not the psychic forums. Begone, fish!

As soon as you crawl back to your fail of a server in which you complain that it lacks the same opportunities bestowed upon more civilized servers.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Backtopic:

for some classes i would say there is a clear advantage of 1 tree when you have to choose between sage and demon but for wizard i would say both trees are fairly balanced and you will enjoy the benefits of the tree when they fit your personal playstyle. While demon improves control skills + 1v1 and PK abilities ( chan bonuses) sage improves the aoes and overall dmg output + chi generation. So if you go for mass pvp like TW go for sage if you want to have fun at Pk or faster -chan go demon.

the availability of sage/demon skills will change over time and while there was a trend towards going sage i see that lately more people go for demon since they like the -chan bonus on the skills. I've seen most of the demon skills in action ( thx HexOmega) and i as a sage wiz can tell you demon is an awesome choice. Nevertheless i never regreted to have chosen sage.

greetz harm0wnie

Adroit - Lost City

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Backtopic:

for some classes i would say there is a clear advantage of 1 tree when you have to choose between sage and demon but for wizard i would say both trees are fairly balanced and you will enjoy the benefits of the tree when they fit your personal playstyle. While demon improves control skills + 1v1 and PK abilities ( chan bonuses) sage improves the aoes and overall dmg output + chi generation. So if you go for mass pvp like TW go for sage if you want to have fun at Pk or faster -chan go demon.

the availability of sage/demon skills will change over time and while there was a trend towards going sage i see that lately more people go for demon since they like the -chan bonus on the skills. I've seen most of the demon skills in action ( thx HexOmega) and i as a sage wiz can tell you demon is an awesome choice. Nevertheless i never regreted to have chosen sage.

greetz harm0wnie

Getting so tired of people saying sage for group pvp/TW and demon for 1v1.. both are about equal in group pvp/TW and 1v1s.. its just a different style of playing.

Atherous - Sanctuary

b:angryb:angryb:angry alright i read to the second post and had nuff lol. ill make this very simple. DEMON PWNS SAGE. the skills r better, the dmg is better and if ur sever has more demon skills consider urself lucky its a pain to find em on my server. Sayin u want to go sage is prty much sayin "hey guys i wanna be a fail wiz" i have never seen a sage wiz that can out dd me, even when i was lvl 90 i was doin more dmg then lvl 100 sage wizards. O and chan gear is amazin, fcc gold rings and warsong helm are great just a few tips.

MageFizban - Lost City

Atherous - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:angryb:angryb:angry alright i read to the second post and had nuff lol. ill make this very simple. DEMON PWNS SAGE. the skills r better, the dmg is better and if ur sever has more demon skills consider urself lucky its a pain to find em on my server. Sayin u want to go sage is prty much sayin "hey guys i wanna be a fail wiz" i have never seen a sage wiz that can out dd me, even when i was lvl 90 i was doin more dmg then lvl 100 sage wizards. O and chan gear is amazin, fcc gold rings and warsong helm are great just a few tips.

o lawd.

Sun_Burn - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Getting so tired of people saying sage for group pvp/TW and demon for 1v1.. both are about equal in group pvp/TW and 1v1s.. its just a different style of playing.

I'm sure they aren't saying demons cant TW or sages can't pvp 1v1, but you have to admit there are (at least a 'slight') advantage for demon wizzies to 1v1 because of their control skills. And vice versa for sage wizards have a (slight) advantage in TW/group pvp left and right because of the chance of chi reductions of aoes, not to mention sage BIDS. Pretty much an ulti spam fest if u dont die and have cloud eruption (which i dont have, but still)

Adroit - Lost City

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

I'm sure they aren't saying demons cant TW or sages can't pvp 1v1, but you have to admit its a lot easier for demon wizzies to 1v1 because of their control skills. And vice versa for sage wizards have an advantage dropping ultis in TW/group pvp because of the chance of chi reductions, not to mention BIDS.

I think its just a different play style. In 1v1s.. sage is much better at building chi.. and those high hp targets that can't be bypassed without a crit.. well sage BIDS is beyond fantabulous. I remember back when I was 8x (not sage), I had this 1v1 with a bm just after I had relogged (I think my game had crashed?) anyway.. I started with 0 chi. I knew how I wanted to kill this bm.. but we were just going in circles for a long time. When I EVENTUALLY built up 2 sparks.. I was able to end the fight very quickly. That was actually one of the turning points in my cultivation decision.. I looked at demon as having nearly the same chi building as pre 89.. and sage would be far better in that aspect. I can tell you that there are tons of people I was able to kill solely because of a sage BIDS crit. I mean Calvin being the perfect example.. I can't even bypass him without a crit (unless he forgot marrow or something), so having sage BIDS is definitely important. Now demon has its perks as well.. little extra pdef, better control skills, and one thing I've always been jealous of is that slightly faster channeling time.. which helps with kiting. It's just different, where I might spam pyro and blink on cooldown.. perhaps a demon wiz would spam hailstorm and not have to blink quite as much. Who knows.. but its just different. I remember fighting Arya back in the day.. and I lost most the time, but my only real chance at the time to beat her was a crit on an ulti.. where obv sage would be better in that case. The same thing really applies to TW.

Sage obviously has better chi building and BIDS is fantastic obv. Demon has its own advantages though.. demon MS is nice because you can cast it from farther away.. and the faster channeling means less chance of getting interrupted and the like. Both have their advantages, different skills get better boosts.. but it doesn't make one better for 1v1s and one better for TW. There was a time that I thought sage was just better at everything, then a very short time I was almost leaning towards demon.. and then I moved to sage being better at some things and demon better at others.. and at this point I'm at this point where I think that both are essentially equal.. just different.

@Atherous - n00b

Sun_Burn - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I think its just a different play style. In 1v1s.. sage is much better at building chi.. and those high hp targets that can't be bypassed without a crit.. well sage BIDS is beyond fantabulous. <- that argument could be made into Demons favor because of the crit in masteries, plus in 1v1s its much easier to negate a BIDS with some sort of genie skill since they can see it coming better than a group pvp situation I remember back when I was 8x (not sage), I had this 1v1 with a bm just after I had relogged (I think my game had crashed?) anyway.. I started with 0 chi. I knew how I wanted to kill this bm.. but we were just going in circles for a long time. When I EVENTUALLY built up 2 sparks.. I was able to end the fight very quickly. That was actually one of the turning points in my cultivation decision.. I looked at demon as having nearly the same chi building as pre 89.. and sage would be far better in that aspect. I can tell you that there are tons of people I was able to kill solely because of a sage BIDS crit. I mean Calvin being the perfect example.. I can't even bypass him without a crit (unless he forgot marrow or something), so having sage BIDS is definitely important. Now demon has its perks as well.. little extra pdef, better control skills, and one thing I've always been jealous of is that slightly faster channeling time.. which helps with kiting. It's just different, where I might spam pyro and blink on cooldown.. perhaps a demon wiz would spam hailstorm and not have to blink quite as much. Who knows.. but its just different. I remember fighting Arya back in the day.. and I lost most the time, but my only real chance at the time to beat her was a crit on an ulti.. where obv sage would be better in that case. The same thing really applies to TW.

Sage obviously has better chi building and BIDS is fantastic obv. Demon has its own advantages though.. demon MS is nice because you can cast it from farther away.. and the faster channeling means less chance of getting interrupted and the like. Both have their advantages, different skills get better boosts.. but it doesn't make one better for 1v1s and one better for TW. There was a time that I thought sage was just better at everything, then a very short time I was almost leaning towards demon.. and then I moved to sage being better at some things and demon better at others.. and at this point I'm at this point where I think that both are essentially equal.. just different.

@Atherous - n00b

differences of opinions I guess, I still think demon wizzies in 1v1s have it easier than sages. Sure the playstyle is different, but its easier to hit an immobilized target when the skills proc.

Adroit - Lost City

Sun_Burn - Lost City wrote: »

differences of opinions I guess, I still think demon wizzies in 1v1s have it easier than sages. Sure the playstyle is different, but its easier to hit an immobilized target when the skills proc.

Perhaps it is just a difference of opinion. I definitely prefer the much higher chance to crit on one skill, than a slightly higher chance to crit on any. When I'm going for that bypass, I'm much more likely to get it when I need it with BIDS than demon masteries. The masteries are nice too.. you can turn a fight around with a lucky crit.. but again that just changes the play style. It is easier to hit an immobilized target, but remember demon only has a slightly better chance to immobilize. Sage can use hailstorm/pitfall for the freeze as well, it just doesn't proc quite as often :P

Ketania - Heavens Tear

/facedesk

HealingBliss - Lost City

lol lvl 95 earthguard b:thanks