A main ploblem in PWI (pls staff read it)

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

It's quite annoying and fastidious wait HOURS and HOURS on central platform to search for Clerics and Barbs for ANY dungeon u whant to do.

I spent a lot of time waiting Clerics and Barb for BH, TT, FF and so on

I ASK U: It's a well balanced system of play when u need only 2 class to do anything????????

It's quite unuseful u introduce new class....Sorry....IT'S DANGEROUS!....These new classes will need Clerics and Barbs to do anyting too.

Why all the game and class skills are so unbalanced?

- The game: A lot of bosses and impossible mobs that u can kill only with the supports of Cleric and Tank

- The classes: A lot of unuseful classes (archers, sin, wiz, psy...and so on) that can't combact a boss without the support of a tanker and in particular of THE ONLY CLASS THAT CAN HEAL (Cleric).


Sorry for my speeking frankly but tihs is a main problem that more ppl feel in this game. I hope staff will read this and will work to improve the game.

Ty bye.

Fintan - Lost City

Shasynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's quite annoying and fastidious wait HOURS and HOURS on central platform to search for Clerics and Barbs for ANY dungeon u whant to do.

I spent a lot of time waiting Clerics and Barb for BH, TT, FF and so on

I assume you're talking about the Bounty Hunter quests. Those are entirely optional, and are a relatively recent addition to the game. They're by no means required for progressing in the game. Surely you have better things to do than spam for "HOURS and HOURS"?

Also, make friends and join a faction. A good faction with people of same/similar level as you and who are active at the same times you are will likely be a great asset for you if you rely upon the BH quests.

I ASK U: It's a well balanced system of play when u need only 2 class to do anything????????

You need more than a barb and cleric to make a well-rounded squad. Now, if you said "a veno and cleric can do anything!", that'd be more true... b:chuckle

It's quite unuseful u introduce new class....Sorry....IT'S DANGEROUS!....These new classes will need Clerics and Barbs to do anyting too.

You just disproved your point right there, while trying to prove it... If the new classes need the existing classes in a fully-functional squad, it's a useful addition. Unlike, say, a squad of Assassins, stealthing their way to the BH bosses and DDing them to death rapidly with the assistance of Bloodpaint and pots...

Why all the game and class skills are so unbalanced?

On the whole, the game and skills are fairly balanced. There are exceptions, but as a whole, there is no one class that can do everything all the time. If you want to solo the whole game on easy mode, Perfect World may not be for you.

- The game: A lot of bosses and impossible mobs that u can kill only with the supports of Cleric and Tank

That's by design. Bosses and Elite mobs are meant to be a group effort sort of thing. So you'll need a tank and cleric and damage dealer, at the minimum. That's called "balance". The game warns you about this by like level 15.

- The classes: A lot of unuseful classes (archers, sin, wiz, psy...and so on) that can't combact a boss without the support of a tanker and in particular of THE ONLY CLASS THAT CAN HEAL (Cleric).

A few of these classes can heal themselves to a lesser degree. So it is possible to do things without a cleric. Plus, there are always pots. And not only Barbarians can tank. In fact, for some sorts of mobs (such as heavy magic), a Barbarian is not the best choice of tank.

Again, needing a group to do "hard" things is called balance.

Sorry for my speeking frankly but tihs is a main problem that more ppl feel in this game. I hope staff will read this and will work to improve the game.

I've noticed that yes, there are more people recently wishing to have the game on "easy mode". I believe that the Boutique has something to do with this, but I can't put my finger on precisely what... However, the fact that you need a balanced group of people for difficult situations, as you keep pointing out, shows that the game is overall balanced.

Ty bye.

Hope you enjoyed your time playing PWI! Good luck with your next game! b:victory

Korrok - Harshlands

Fintan - Lost City wrote: »

I assume you're talking about the Bounty Hunter quests. Those are entirely optional, and are a relatively recent addition to the game. They're by no means required for progressing in the game. Surely you have better things to do than spam for "HOURS and HOURS"?

Also, make friends and join a faction. A good faction with people of same/similar level as you and who are active at the same times you are will likely be a great asset for you if you rely upon the BH quests.



You need more than a barb and cleric to make a well-rounded squad. Now, if you said "a veno and cleric can do anything!", that'd be more true... b:chuckle



You just disproved your point right there, while trying to prove it... If the new classes need the existing classes in a fully-functional squad, it's a useful addition. Unlike, say, a squad of Assassins, stealthing their way to the BH bosses and DDing them to death rapidly with the assistance of Bloodpaint and pots...



On the whole, the game and skills are fairly balanced. There are exceptions, but as a whole, there is no one class that can do everything all the time. If you want to solo the whole game on easy mode, Perfect World may not be for you.



That's by design. Bosses and Elite mobs are meant to be a group effort sort of thing. So you'll need a tank and cleric and damage dealer, at the minimum. That's called "balance". The game warns you about this by like level 15.



A few of these classes can heal themselves to a lesser degree. So it is possible to do things without a cleric. Plus, there are always pots. And not only Barbarians can tank. In fact, for some sorts of mobs (such as heavy magic), a Barbarian is not the best choice of tank.

Again, needing a group to do "hard" things is called balance.




I've noticed that yes, there are more people recently wishing to have the game on "easy mode". I believe that the Boutique has something to do with this, but I can't put my finger on precisely what... However, the fact that you need a balanced group of people for difficult situations, as you keep pointing out, shows that the game is overall balanced.



Hope you enjoyed your time playing PWI! Good luck with your next game! b:victory

Do you work for PWI, by any chance? lol

Fintan - Lost City

They're within spitting distance of me, but no. I also note that you don't refute anything I said. b:chuckle

Smarie - Sanctuary

The largest problem isn't with the balance of the game itself, but rather with the players.

Clerics and barbs both cost quite a bit to maintain. People seem to forget this. They just expect them to be there when they are needed and don't bother to compensate them at all.

Plus, now, (especially in BH69), squad wipes are more and more common. Why? Because the BM's or Sin's, Psy's or wizards don't bother to watch their aggro. Who gets blamed though? Not the Sin or BM, the barb gets blamed for not holding aggro. The cleric gets blamed for not healing everyone, or for letting the tank die because he/she is actually trying to heal everyone.

It's mainly because we get tired of the disrespect that we quit doing BH/FCC/RB. it's also why I play my Wiz, Psy, and Veno now more than my higher level Cleric and Barb.

Also note, if you're sitting for hours waiting for a BH, you fail. do do your backlogged quests and earn come coin and experience. (not for leveling, but experience on actually being a good player.)

Ruxal - Harshlands

Balance? This game? Seriously?

Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver

I agree with Fintan (and I'm not working for PWI either. Ocean's too wide for me to swim across). I find the game pretty balanced, too, with different classes being better at certain things and doing worse with others. And with genesis there comes another class with healing abilities lower than cleric, but better than other magic classes.

Also I find it highly amusing to see at least one person finaly QQing about needing more classes that can do clerics job instead of 'QQ mystic, QQ r clerics n venos gonna die??? QQQQQ!!!!111'. It feels kind of refreshing b:chuckle

Eoria - Harshlands

Hint: Archers end up being better tanks than barbs at end-game. Seriously. Barbs just end up being buff monkeys and pullers.

Clerics still end up being needed though, but there's a higher percentage of them out there than there are barbs.

Fintan - Lost City

Smarie - Sanctuary wrote: »

The largest problem isn't with the balance of the game itself, but rather with the players.

I think I alluded to that obliquely, yes. Thank you for being less subtle. b:chuckle

Smarie - Sanctuary wrote: »

Clerics and barbs both cost quite a bit to maintain. People seem to forget this. They just expect them to be there when they are needed and don't bother to compensate them at all.

Yeah. It's funny when I end up squadded with the same people for a number of instances and they realize I repair as much as the barb sometimes, and it costs more than anyone else other than the barb. I kind of miss the days where it was common to "tip" your cleric. b:sad To do full days of nothing but instances of various sorts (I've only done Frost once by 79, read below...), the only sane (both in terms of cost and maintenance) thing to do is to charm. Sadly, if MP charms grow on trees, I've not found one to take a cutting from yet. And I'm not wasting a res scroll on your squad of randoms just so I can rev you all and we can finish faster. Sorry.

Smarie - Sanctuary wrote: »

Plus, now, (especially in BH69), squad wipes are more and more common. Why? Because the BM's or Sin's, Psy's or wizards don't bother to watch their aggro. Who gets blamed though? Not the Sin or BM, the barb gets blamed for not holding aggro. The cleric gets blamed for not healing everyone, or for letting the tank die because he/she is actually trying to heal everyone.

Or better, blaming the cleric when the sin's stealing aggro then stealths out, so the cleric dies and then so does everyone else... Aggro management works on many levels. It's becoming more of a lost art than a basic skill these days.

Smarie - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's mainly because we get tired of the disrespect that we quit doing BH/FCC/RB. it's also why I play my Wiz, Psy, and Veno now more than my higher level Cleric and Barb.

Yes, as a rule, I don't do BH except with people I know unless I'm utterly bored. And no, telling the cleric what they should be doing won't make you more popular and more likely to get your cleric back tomorrow... Just a little FYI there.

Smarie - Sanctuary wrote: »

Also note, if you're sitting for hours waiting for a BH, you fail. do do your backlogged quests and earn come coin and experience. (not for leveling, but experience on actually being a good player.)

Yes, since returning to the game and experiencing BH, I really am not a very big fan of it. At all. I mean, if you're already farming the instance for drops, sure, it's a nice perk. But I think the rewards are far too high for what it is, and it encourages people to keep looking for the "easy button"...

My first day back to PWI, I had a 7x approach me in the Swamp and ask me how to make coin so he could get better gear... Then he offered me some Oracles as a thank you, since he didn't really know what to do with them... I facepalmed in real life.

Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree with Fintan (and I'm not working for PWI either. Ocean's too wide for me to swim across). I find the game pretty balanced, too, with different classes being better at certain things and doing worse with others. And with genesis there comes another class with healing abilities lower than cleric, but better than other magic classes.

Yes, it seems all the new classes are hybrids of what already exist, with a bit of a twist. I'm hoping the new Genesis ones are a bit more balanced overall than the Tideborn are, but that's a wait-and-see thing. (I'm not saying that Tideborn are game-breaking, just that they probably should have been playtested by a wider audience first. There are, shall we say, "quirks" about both of them that probably should have been tweaked prior to release..)

Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also I find it highly amusing to see at least one person finaly QQing about needing more classes that can do clerics job instead of 'QQ mystic, QQ r clerics n venos gonna die??? QQQQQ!!!!111'. It feels kind of refreshing b:chuckle

Wait... Didn't psychics replace venos? b:chuckle

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Hint: Archers end up being better tanks than barbs at end-game. Seriously. Barbs just end up being buff monkeys and pullers.

Clerics still end up being needed though, but there's a higher percentage of them out there than there are barbs.

Sadly, most higher-level clerics (e.g. 70 and up) are utter fail, lately. I was in a BH recently where we picked up a random cleric. She admitted (and was proud of) her healing ability consisting of a macro that does nothing but spam AOE heal repeatedly. I had asked her to heal and purify so i could DD (she was "full support" and hadn't leveled any attacks to speak of) and secondary heal if necessary... Another facepalm moment. Again, I blame the Boutique for non-specific reasons. Perhaps hypers?

(The rest of this post is totally tangential to the OP. Ignore at will.)
In fact, the fail clerics make it really hard to find Frost squads for me. How do people I don't know gauge whether I'm as fail as the previous cleric they picked up? They can't. And what's left of my FL after my almost-2-year hiatus is now way too high to do Frost with me, and it's not always possible to find enough people in faction able to Frost with me, and are wanting to when I am. And, of course, with the rampant fail out there, adding more friends who aren't is a bit difficult...

But yeah, I'm more interested in Frost as yet another instance to master than purely as a leveling aid. That probably also doesn't help. I'm not interested in speed runs, I'm interested in learning all the ins and outs so that I can be effective in there for the long term, regardless of the squad's goals. (I dislike people who think of BH 59 as "pick and choose the mobs we clear so we finish fast, we can buy our rep" with how much rep drops in there. May as well just wine it if you're going to cash shop it anyhow.)

Frost appears, in my limited experience, to be a really fun and challenging instance where if you have a good squad that you know well, it can actually be "too easy". I stocked up on res scrolls, just in case, though.

That's enough of my ranting. Note, though, that little of it has to do with the game itself, but rather with the people who play it. Those same people have grown too reliant on certain aspects of the game which seem to be designed to help you over the hurdles of certain levels which lack more than a couple of quests. Grinding mobs for 80% of a level can get kind of dull...

In the end, I stand by my statement that the game is overall balanced. It's not perfect, but neither is the world anymore. That's why we're the heroes saving it, remember?

TL;DR version: It's the players at fault more than PWE. CS less and L2P. TYVM.

Ubnext - Sanctuary

Smarie - Sanctuary wrote: »

The largest problem isn't with the balance of the game itself, but rather with the players.

Clerics and barbs both cost quite a bit to maintain. People seem to forget this. They just expect them to be there when they are needed and don't bother to compensate them at all.

Plus, now, (especially in BH69), squad wipes are more and more common. Why? Because the BM's or Sin's, Psy's or wizards don't bother to watch their aggro. Who gets blamed though? Not the Sin or BM, the barb gets blamed for not holding aggro. The cleric gets blamed for not healing everyone, or for letting the tank die because he/she is actually trying to heal everyone.

It's mainly because we get tired of the disrespect that we quit doing BH/FCC/RB. it's also why I play my Wiz, Psy, and Veno now more than my higher level Cleric and Barb.

Also note, if you're sitting for hours waiting for a BH, you fail. do do your backlogged quests and earn come coin and experience. (not for leveling, but experience on actually being a good player.)

I beg to differ a little.

I think the game is balanced to fail.

but then again maybe this one player is on the wrong server.
I am lvl 60 Cleric, (with powerful heals) because I have held back my exp at least 3 upper levels.just so I can get an extra 450000 spirit and more spells.
I have now capped all my buffs and still have enough offense to solo within three lvls above me comfortably.

I fly, run walk and open shop, as well as stand at teleport illusion stone, with the following squad slogan over my head, "Level 61 Cleric looking for more" or "looking for Squad"
all day long.

sometimes I get a whisper/ but never an invite.
I have to buy teleacoustics to announce I am available.

I quest more now at 61 then I did at 39
but okay. PWI was built and developed to fail. everything about this game is meant to fail intentionally.

and I think I have finally figured out why it is still addictive. Because the Human Mind cannot accept failure and quit. there has to be a way it can be done successfully. and I am gonna find it if it hurts so bad I sling my laptop in the street or die which ever comes first.

the market and economy were set to fail. so Most, not allplayers will want to my prepay cards..
this is why you can make an immaculate for 14 Million but only sell it for 1.3 million.
this is why you can by wind widgets for the price of two best of luck tokens in the PWB but you can't sell them for 1/10 the 10M you paid for them.

(Best token = 4,950,000 coin. 2 best token to buy one wind widget. 80 wind widget to upgrade.50 on your wings, plus some other item.
80 X 10M is 80M +???Items. + the price of the orignal wing, about 4 to 35 gold depending on the wing.)

so when is the last time you saw a freaking top grade wing selling for its manufacturers suggested retail price of 100+Million?????)

come on peeps don't tell me you are so deaf and dumb or just so ignorant that you cannot see the game was meant to be unbalance to satisfy the developers with cheap servers to fill their pockets.
I am actually jealous I wish it was me sitting on a beach in the Caymen's with Laptop in hand responded to all you stupid fockers who canNOT see PWI for what it really is.

PROFESSIONAL SKILLED FAIL
FAIL
FAIL
FAIL

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

So....

- The game is well balanced...

- The game it's all right...

- I'm mistakeing...(maybe)

- I'm newbie...(shure)

- I don't understand how to play (It's possible...I'm so stupid)


....OK


But...Why EVERY DAY there is A LOT of (stupid) people, like me, that wait hours and hours asking in public chat to find a cleric and a tanker for play BH, RB, FF, TT...an so on?

If classes are balanced, why nobody searchs psy or wiz or archers or veno or sin....

You read it in chat or not?...Or u wanna tell me that I'm not able to read?

Are in game a lot of stupid like me?

Please...tell me how to play...How form a squad without waiting a lot of my time (Sorry...I have not infinite time to play).

When I connect to a game I'd like to play...Not to wait hours to do anything till Mr Barbs or Sir Cleric decide to wake up.

Now Barbs and Clerics demand money to join a squad and to let u play...That's nice...Very nice for a game!...What a well balanced game!

Ubnext - Sanctuary

Clerics have a 25% gain of mana while healing group. this sucks because that is what the cleric is there for, but when the squad is in fight the cleric suffers the reduction loss as if it were fighting to. in actually we are healing. the mana regen should be upgraded to at least 50% while in battle, because you guys don't supply me with mana pots, nor do you wait so I can meditate. so it is all out of pocket expense to me.
plus pay for my gear so I have MP recov +3+3+2+7 etc.

notice this gear is more expensive than HP recov gear. no one gives the cleric a break on anything. but you expect us to be there for you.

but when a Cleric wants a squad no one is the heck around to help with their bounty hunter.
I roll one chip stack, then yell BH51 roll then BH1 for 30 minutes. I have 1K plus vhips and still no one invite.

so yeah lets make it more balanced.
being it is the clerics whole purpose to be in the squad to heal the squad let the cleric not suffer from battle mode.
actually regen should be 100%. that would be balanced.

and how about make all armor MP when refining instead of HP.
if I had 9K mana at lvl 60 I could heal myself and everyone else adequately. I wouldn't need hp refinement
(except when I solo, ) but u could put that on my helmet

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

An Exemplar little story

Two evening ago I tryed to form a squad for FF run

Immediately find other 3 ppl like me (sin, BM, psy)

So we started to search a cleric and a tanker.

Ask for 1 hour in chat...nothing....Other 3 squad were searching for clerics and tanks like us.


After about 1 hour and half, find cleric....so needed only a tank...what a lucky!...

So searching a tank...ask in chat...wait...minutes...hours...

The cleric, tired, left us...He joined a squad ready to go for a TT....

We were again without cleric and tank...4 ppl are waiting to play.

Finally finded a tank...a Barb that ask "only" 100 k to join us...Now needed only a cleric...wonderful!...

...But....No cleric free....

After 3 hours all togheter resign...3 hours spent unusefully for 4 ppl...

...I logoff and went to sleep.


Today morning the same...I'd wait asking for 1 hour to form a squad for BH 79...4 DD find immediately... but no cleric and no barb.
I resign...I had only 1,5 hours in lunch time to play.

...I logoff and back to work.

...This is a game for ppl who had a looooooooooooooooooot of time to wait!!!!

Alasiah - Lost City

One big issue is that everyone assumes you HAVE to have a barb and cleric or other certain classes for EVERYTHING. There are other classes that can heal, such as wizzies and psychics, and there are other classes that can tank, like venos and bm's. Not saying this works every time, but if you are in a tight spot and have skilled players its workable. For example, everyone thinks you HAVE to have a barb, or you HAVE to have a Bm for frost, I've done them without a barb, without bm, and without both. People are just too scared or lazy to think outside of the box b:chuckle
Also, sometimes people are just not doing BH at the moment. When I cant find a squad I go do other things and drop by regularly to see if anyone is looking for the same bh as me. A lot of times on my lower level characters there are higher level ppl who solo for you if you shout long enough.
If that doesnt work, offer compensation. Any cleric is game to work for coin every now and again. Or offer to pay barb's repair fees. Pots and repair are very expensive and vital for clerics and barbs.

Another thing you can do is find a good faction with strong players that will help you out. I am in Sangnati (too bad its a different server ) and they are great with helping me out when I need it most of the time. I wouldnt be where I am now without them. So find a good faction. It may take a while cuz there are a lot of crappy ones, but the ones you see helping in bh or frost situations are the ones you should go for.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

People don't play barbs very often anymore.

Why? Because you sit around and annoy them to death while asking for help with your BHs/TTs/FBs and then, they go ahead and get to level 100 and if they don't go claw built, you completely forget they exist.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Sorry what? I thought this was a necro at first. First people complain that everything needs a barb and cleric, now you have people complaining that barbs and clerics are useless and replaceable, and then this thread pops up...

Alasiah - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry what? I thought this was a necro at first. First people complain that everything needs a barb and cleric, now you have people complaining that barbs and clerics are useless and replaceable, and then this thread pops up...

I never said they were useless or replaceable. I'm a cleric and I think I am important. I'm just saying if the easiest route isn't available you arent barred from doing anything in game. I'm asking ppl to USE THEIR BRAINS and actually AQUIRE SKILL instead of QQing about how no one will do everything for you.

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

Alasiah - Lost City wrote: »

One big issue is that everyone assumes you HAVE to have a barb and cleric or other certain classes for EVERYTHING. There are other classes that can heal, such as wizzies and psychics, and there are other classes that can tank, like venos and bm's. Not saying this works every time, but if you are in a tight spot and have skilled players its workable. For example, everyone thinks you HAVE to have a barb, or you HAVE to have a Bm for frost, I've done them without a barb, without bm, and without both. People are just too scared or lazy to think outside of the box b:chuckle
Also, sometimes people are just not doing BH at the moment. When I cant find a squad I go do other things and drop by regularly to see if anyone is looking for the same bh as me. A lot of times on my lower level characters there are higher level ppl who solo for you if you shout long enough.
If that doesnt work, offer compensation. Any cleric is game to work for coin every now and again. Or offer to pay barb's repair fees. Pots and repair are very expensive and vital for clerics and barbs.

That's true!

I had always tank bosses with my archer supported by a good cleric (or better 2 clercis).

There are a lot of combinations of caracters for killing a Boss.

But anymore you need these particular combinations!!!

And is very very difficult to form a good squad without a cleric and a tank.

PWI is different from other games, where bosses and quests that need to be in squad to fight are the exceptions, and the main part of game is fighting alone or in little squad of any classes (not needing particulary classes).

In PWI you need to be in squad every day and you need particulary combinations of caracters!!!...Elsewere you can only shot to the rabbit in the beach, forghetting BH, FF, TT and so on...

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Ubnext - Sanctuary wrote: »

(Best token = 4,950,000 coin. 2 best token to buy one wind widget. 80 wind widget to upgrade.

uummm... that just-under-5mil coin could have bought four or five gold, which IIRC buys you a lot more than just one wind widget from the cash shop directly. IJS.

the economy is set up, not to fail, but sloppily. it looks unrealistic because you have multiple pathways to buy the same one thing, where the pathways have very dramatically different costs --- not just small, marginal differences, but orders of magnitude. you wouldn't see that in a real life economy, so it looks all wacko to see it in a simulation.

what this really is, though, is a badly disguised (and, perhaps, not too very successful) attempt at setting price caps and price floors. there was a discussion about the mysterious merchant lately, talking about (among other things) how he acts as a price capper, not so much as a merchant. RL economies don't get limited in quite that manner, which is why it seems strange in game.

don't fret too much about it, simply never take any NPC price to be "the" price for anything. look around, try to find another pathway to the thing you want, see if you can find a price-floor setter instead of the price-cap setter.

so when is the last time you saw a freaking top grade wing selling for its manufacturers suggested retail price of 100+Million?????)

there are no such things as MSRP's in the game. the sell-it-to-an-NPC price is nothing but a price floor; the amount of coin you're guaranteed to get if you do the laziest possible thing to get rid of it that still gets you any coin at all. rarely is this a smart thing to do. (if anybody ever sells anything for less than its NPC price, buy it quick and resell. there's no way you'll lose money on that deal, after all.)

i checked mount prices on the HT auction house the other day; panthers were going for about two mil coin. or i could have got one from the cash shop, for seven and a half gold. ultimately, i'd guess every panther on the server probably came from that cash shop. at the time, they were probably smart buys that way --- but now, you'd be a damn fool to spend five, six million coin to get enough gold for that purchase, when two mil gets you a used panther directly. i don't recall what a panther egg NPCs for, because i can't imagine anybody being silly enough to NPC a mount egg... unless, of course, you can find an NPC that'll give you two million coin or more for it. if you do, PM me and i'll clean heaven's tear out of panthers.

ItsAWolf - Archosaur

BH and Frost are only recent additions, you don't need to do them at all, I've personally never done frost as I don't have the time for it. As a barb I already have enough people that need help in the faction I am in, so I won't be helping random people on the platform usually. Especially since at later levels I'll become useless and would benefit more from some goodwill in my faction for help than people I'm not likely to meet ever again b:surrender

To use the ever so popular reply when it comes to complaints about APS classes; you can always start a barb/cleric as character and be assured of squad invites, or do squads with friends / faction members.

In the meantime do some grinding / questing to earn some coin, instead of fruitlessly wasting your time waiting for some random squad.

LeiMai - Raging Tide

Anyone stop to consider that clerics and barbs (mostly) don't NEED random squads?

Who do you blame when you die? Who takes the brunt of other people's stupidity? For the most part, people tend to have enough people around their level on their FL to find squads to do things with. Even if its a couple of people's FL to collect a squad from.

Why should a cleric or barb risk their reputation on randoms when they could run with people they are familiar with? Because even if its your fault, some people still blame them when something goes wrong.

People spend more time screaming and raging on world chat looking for a certain class sometimes, than it would take to do whatever it is without that class.

We wanted a cleric yesterday for BH, but none were on. So we got started without a full squad! People are going to QQ about costs? get some pots and heal yourself. Work as a team, use a zeal, take a psychic or wizard for a little healing bonus. Maybe you'll be more likely to get who you need when it will take them 10 minutes to enter the instance, run to where you are (as the mobs were already killed by you) and heal the squad for the boss.

P.S. I know some people of every class that are better tanks than some barbs I've met.

Boozer - Lost City

Mystics will heal just as good as clerics. They just lack BB and purify. But they will make it way easier in terms of finding healers for BHs.

For barbs well you dont really need them in the first place unless your party suck.

Only time you actually need a barb would be when a low 8X party is doing BH69, than you might want a barb for Polearm/Gaurnub and 1 cleric to purify.

Any other BH will do fine with another class tanking. People depending on barbs are just bad players imo. You definitely dont need a barb for Frost, its just a bit safer since you get buffs and faster since you can pull all mobs in magic hall. But rest of the instance can be pulled by a BM. Bosses can be tanked by any other class. Same for majority of BHs.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Firstly, if youre looking for a FF squad near the head hunter platform using general chat....your doing it wrong!!! You have much better chances spamming general chat at snowy village.

Else monitor world chat where squads are looking out for DDs for FC squads or BHs. These squads most likely already have acquired the tank and cleric components which makes it easier for you.

This is how I usually end up getting my stuff done. While am looking out for these squads, am usually grinding for DQ items which would get me my DQ points and coins to cover wine, repair and potion costs. (1.5 hrs of grinding me netted me close to 700k in coins)

Now to tackle your BH tank requirements, the only time you even need a barb to tank would probably be on Pole/nob (since most BMs at that level do not realize how to tank these or the clerics arent comfortable with the BM's HP pool).

Bosses in FB59 - Can be tanked by any magic class with cleric support and by an archer if they have the suitable genie skills/hp pots/etc. Dont even get me started on Drake and Glutt which on range do only fire DoTs similar to calcid.

Bosses in FB69 - Pyro is ranged and with BB and 1 additional healer, an 8x archer can tank it. Wizard with fire shield would do it much easier I guess

Bosses in FB79 - Stygean is an archer type mob, Linus and Brigand both do ranged fire damage. The typical 9x BH squad on DW dont even bother with looking for a Barb if they know what theyre doing. The strategy in any FB79 boss these days is cleric BBs, lure and all DDs pounce on them.

Bosses in FB89 -
Eden - You can do this without a barb.
Brimstone Pit - This is probably where having a barb makes a big difference due to the nature of the mobs (and not the boss itself).

Bosses in FB99 - People have reached a point where in sins and BMs are the "in thing" now and look primarily for APS DDs. Even archers switch to fists at this point if theyre stacked with interval gear.

FCs - Ive run with squads without a Barb, without a BM. Was slower but we completed the instance within the time it required you to give up on the barb. It took me 1 hr to duo upto heads with a lvl8x cleric and am an archer with crappy defenses. Am sure a BM can do much better if the cleric supports them.

Now I am not saying that barbs are useless, just that there are alternate ways to do things when you cant find one. The furry kittens are overworked as is and it would be nice if people could come up with ways of doing things when you cant find one.

Even if a barb is in squad and if a DD is a better tank, inform the barb and cleric and do it. Everyone is happy here because the barb's repair bill and potion cost just went down and boss is killed faster since there is no need to control the damage and in some cases the cleric's mana cost as well.

As for clerics, theyre easier to get than a barb and definitely do well if a plan is formulated before going through the instance.

Most of the time the problem is because people do not communicate well enough and assume things will be done a certain way.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

A good faction with people of same/similar level as you and who are active at the same times you are will likely be a great asset for you if you rely upon the BH quests.

These exist? where?

Out of 200 people in a faction, you might get 3-4 who are interested in doing the exact same thing you are, at the exact same time you're ready to do it and during the same damn playing time you have.

Faction runs are complete jokes. You might get one or 2 in a week but you sure as **** aren't getting the help you need at all times. That's why WC exists. However, that's proving to be a waste of time anymore too.

Renza - Raging Tide

Well when i actually bothered to level, still the same now, I diddn't really ever feel the need to get some random squad up for anything, apart from BH if it was late in the day, but yea everything i needed would either be in my FL or guild, obviously theres not as much clerics about, or willing to do stuff, even i have had random squads die...a lot in a dungeon, simply because of there stupidity and i still got the blame for it at times, when i role a mystic with this expansion, the only thing clerics will be needed for, in terms of higher level dungeons, is *some* TT bosses, BH69 because of the debuffs and any other boss that debuffs, because a venos herc can tank a lot of stuff, which ill be doing for my self with my own herc and the mystics heal works fine enough for some situations,

this game was never made to be balanced or the devs would of re-vamped the skills ages ago, have they ever edited the skills in the 5 years or so that this game has existed? nope, will they ever? nope, unbalanced and uninteresting game is...the 2 things I just said.

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

I'm not interested if best tanker is the Barb or the BM...or if a Veno with a Ercules pet can tank better than a Barb with Cleric support.


The real problem is that A LOT of peolpe pass A LOT of their time writing in chat "LFS..." or "LFM...." or "LF healer" or "LF tank" and waiting to form a squad.

That's because in this game form a squad to run dungeons is quite difficult!...Too much difficult compareing other similar games.

Not only u had to form a squad...You had to form a squad with particular members because classes are unbalanced and u need particular caracters (even if u go to die)!

That's difficult even inside a single guild!

I hope staff read and understand this!!!!!

I'd listen a LOT OF PEOPLE tired TO WAIT HOURS forming squads 1 or 2 times EVERY DAY!
(that's actually an objective problem of the game..not only a my opinion)


If a solution may be to ELIMINATE BH...Then ELIMINATE (annoying) BH and give more reward for Normal quests.
That's probably will give also more opportunties to form squads for FF and TT.
(that's subjective opinion of mine)

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Shasynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not interested if best tanker is the Barb or the BM...or if a Veno with a Ercules pet can tank better than a Barb with Cleric support.


The real problem is that A LOT of peolpe pass A LOT of their time writing in chat "LFS..." or "LFM...." or "LF healer" or "LF tank" and waiting to form a squad.

That's because in this game form a squad to run dungeons is quite difficult!...Too much difficult compareing other similar games.

Not only u had to form a squad...You had to form a squad with particular members because classes are unbalanced and u need particular caracters (even if u go to die)!

That's difficult even inside a single guild!

I hope staff read and understand this!!!!!

I'd listen a LOT OF PEOPLE tired TO WAIT HOURS forming squads 1 or 2 times EVERY DAY!
(that's actually an objective problem of the game..not only a my opinion)


If a solution may be to ELIMINATE BH...Then ELIMINATE (annoying) BH and give more reward for Normal quests.

That's probably will give also more opportunties to form squads for FF and TT.
(that's subjective opinion of mine)

Then do something else while waiting to find a squad.

I'm a prolific grinder. I like getting free charms with event gold, so I tend to mostly grind by default unless I just so happen to see a squad forming for w/e instance I'd be interested in doing. I learned a long time ago to stop trying to form squads and instead just watch WC until someone else does it for me. That saves me money (not wasting teles) and my sanity.

Shasynn - Heavens Tear

Xarathox - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Then do something else while waiting to find a squad.

I'm a prolific grinder. I like getting free charms with event gold, so I tend to mostly grind by default unless I just so happen to see a squad forming for w/e instance I'd be interested in doing. I learned a long time ago to stop trying to form squads and instead just watch WC until someone else does it for me. That saves me money (not wasting teles) and my sanity.

Unfortunately I'm a squad former...Anyone had to do that...Anyone that sacrify himself to make the game run...

...But I'm really tired to do that...pls...ELIMINATE BH!!!!! and let us play more rewardful Normal quests b:cry

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Shasynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's quite annoying and fastidious wait HOURS and HOURS on central platform to search for Clerics and Barbs for ANY dungeon u whant to do.

this game is heavenly compared to the hours and hours you had to wait just to get a squad to LEVEL in this other popular MMO game.

at least its only a dungeon.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

That's because in this game form a squad to run dungeons is quite difficult!...Too much difficult compareing other similar games.

Not only u had to form a squad...You had to form a squad with particular members because classes are unbalanced and u need particular caracters (even if u go to die)!

Ok Questions to you:

1.) Whats your take on a squad of 4 archers (1 of these blokes claims he/she can tank), 1 BM (cannot pull or tank) and 1 cleric for a 9x FC run?

2.) How comfortable are you with a squad of BM (claims he can tank), wiz, psy, archer, cleric, sin for a BH69 run?

3.) How about 4 venos, 1 cleric and 1 archer, all 8x, for Polearm/Gaurnob? You do realize most veno pets, including hercs, have problems with the debuff since it cant be purified. Heck the cleric was invited only because he needed the bosses as well. The initial plan was to pot through the aoe damage.

4.) 6 DDs (2 archers, 1 Sin, 1 wizard, 1 psychic) for the OHT Boss Blackhole devourer (If you dont know what this is, its a [?] boss with around 2 mil hp and high attack. All in all a real pain to kill )?

5.) 5 archers, 1 cleric for a BH79?

Are you willing to give it a shot and see how it goes? Or do you do only the tried and tested methods?

The result of all 5 were a success if you must know. Now tell me where you required a specific set of classes for the instance or boss?

Most people are so fixed on specifics that theyre unwilling to try new things or find alternatives to existing classes in certain roles. Its all about speed instead of getting the thing done.

I wouldnt call the game imbalanced with respect to classes or forming squads atleast. You have the option to take whoever you want and come up with the strategy to get your stuff done.

The only thing that really requires a little bit of specification would be rebirth runs but even then it can be done without conventional squads depending upon the people in the squad.

DingoAIDS - Lost City

Shasynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's quite annoying and fastidious wait HOURS and HOURS on central platform to search for Clerics and Barbs for ANY dungeon u whant to do.

I spent a lot of time waiting Clerics and Barb for BH, TT, FF and so on

I ASK U: It's a well balanced system of play when u need only 2 class to do anything????????

It's quite unuseful u introduce new class....Sorry....IT'S DANGEROUS!....These new classes will need Clerics and Barbs to do anyting too.

Why all the game and class skills are so unbalanced?

- The game: A lot of bosses and impossible mobs that u can kill only with the supports of Cleric and Tank

- The classes: A lot of unuseful classes (archers, sin, wiz, psy...and so on) that can't combact a boss without the support of a tanker and in particular of THE ONLY CLASS THAT CAN HEAL (Cleric).


Sorry for my speeking frankly but tihs is a main problem that more ppl feel in this game. I hope staff will read this and will work to improve the game.

Ty bye.

Only read the title. Make a barb or cleric stop qq about lack of them