La Bm

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Comments

  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    OdessaWolf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Shakes head*

    Way to back up your argument.

    I've seen your gear, it's nice. And -int + fist does nice damage no matter what. But since your build has almost 400 dex, equipping a level 4 pair of axes and HFing a str/dex BM would give more damage than you can do.

    I don't see what is fun, or special about having almost no skills, and cyclone spamming to spark spamming. Seems like a boring build.


    Basically what you've built is a fist archer but without the benefits of an evasion buff or Blazing arrow buff for extra damage, or rank armor for extra -int. You at least can self buff yourself with Golden Bell, but as a LA BM theirs not a huge gain in using even your own skills.

    Play how you want, but explain how it isn't fail to do less damage than anyone else in your class while offering none of the same benefits of even being that class.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • OdessaWolf - Dreamweaver
    OdessaWolf - Dreamweaver Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Whats to back up? What is the point in trying? No matter what i say, it wont satisfy you guys. You guys just want to be right no matter what. HFHFHFHFHFHFHF, F ur HF. Again, i dont have to explain myself to you guys, cause in ur eyes, im just FAIL, FINE! Just shut up already and quit trolling my build...

    TY all for hating and my pride to enjoy what i made for myself.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sunked - Lost City
    Sunked - Lost City Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    U actually the rudest person here, noone ask u to change your way of playing, but as discussion goes about LA bm and you pretty much only LA bm here, maybe u care to explain and inspare other players to choose your path. Maybe gain from being LA/fist somehow comprise ur lack of signature bm skills (aoes,stun) ,verifiability from multipathing and defense?
  • StudmuffinIX - Archosaur
    StudmuffinIX - Archosaur Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    OdessaWolf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Whats to back up? What is the point in trying? No matter what i say, it wont satisfy you guys. You guys just want to be right no matter what. HFHFHFHFHFHFHF, F ur HF. Again, i dont have to explain myself to you guys, cause in ur eyes, im just FAIL, FINE! Just shut up already and quit trolling my build...

    TY all for hating and my pride to enjoy what i made for myself.

    lols your BM is the equivalence of a cleric without iron heart or a barb without invoke. not only do u not have HF for instances like nirvana and such but u have no axes for TW (no aoes, and no HF), meaning ur a sin out of stealth in TW (completely useless)..... add all this up and u are left with a fail BM.

    im not saying not to play ur class however u want, im saying its not successful nor smart to do what ur doing.... anyways b:bye
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    LA pure fist bm kicks *** in rebirth. Wizards do a lot more damage to a wave when the bm is telling the mobs how much fun the build is. 1 at a time.

    And alpha-male is like a free teleport to 1k incase you get mail.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    LA pure fist bm kicks *** in rebirth. Wizards do a lot more damage to a wave when the bm is telling the mobs how much fun the build is. 1 at a time.

    And alpha-male is like a free teleport to 1k incase you get mail.

    I laughed irl. b:cute
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I don't see what is fun, or special about having almost no skills, and cyclone spamming to spark spamming. Seems like a boring build.

    It's a self-imposed challenge build. The fun comes from limits set.
  • StudmuffinIX - Archosaur
    StudmuffinIX - Archosaur Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It's a self-imposed challenge build. The fun comes from limits set. Truthfully though, I doubt you'll understand.

    lols sounds like a fancy way of saying i'm fail :D b:laugh
  • Asperitas - Lost City
    Asperitas - Lost City Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It's a self-imposed challenge build. The fun comes from limits set. Truthfully though, I doubt you'll understand.

    To call it a self-imposed challenge is one thing. To claim that it is not fail, is another. While fail might be a bit harsh, it is in essence, and in harsh reality, true.

    That's like playing basketball with lay-ups only.

    That's like playing american football with kicks only.

    That's like playing a cleric with no heals.

    That's like playing a BM with 3 of your other weapon sets missing.

    Regardless of how you call it, it is fail, because you're reducing the overall effectiveness of not only yourself, but of your squad. You can call it a challenge and leave it at that, but to argue that the build itself is not fail and that the people judging are ignorant, is naivety at best.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gelnd
    gelnd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    It's a self-imposed challenge build. The fun comes from limits set. Truthfully though, I doubt you'll understand.

    Condescending attitude does not further your point. Regarding self-imposed limits, I have seen nowhere that people are criticizing Odessa from playing how he/she desires, rather I see people explaining why it is not an efficient way to play. I also would like to point out that self-imposed challenges, that's fine for solo play, but when it comes to squadding... certain "challenges" can be a detriment to the squad. I'm not a picky player, myself; I'm happy to squad with the more controversial builds such as light armor cleric, vit-axe BM, and so on... but there are certain standards I think one should meet to contribute to the squad. Venoes must amp, clerics must purify and IH, barbs must flesh ream when they're in the tanking role, etc.
    I had the displeasure to squad with a barb a few weeks ago who would not use true form at all. First of all he failed to communicate, ignoring several tips on how to hold aggro, then finally claimed he was low level for his tiger skills. Okay, fine... but he keeps letting the cleric take aggro cuz he isn't aggroing all the mobs. >.< So I finally get him to use slam to aoe the mobs and hopefully aggro the ones around him, since he just keeps running in, instead of letting me pull (I was on my veno at the time). Then when we get to the boss, me and the other veno agree to tank... and the barb starts stealing aggro! >.< Lesson 1) learn your skills and when to use them (and when not to use them :P). Lesson 2) Communicate with people who are trying to help you understand your class better!
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    gelnd wrote: »
    Condescending attitude does not further your point.

    I admit I was too harsh. I apologize.
    gelnd wrote: »
    Regarding self-imposed limits, I have seen nowhere that people are criticizing Odessa from playing how he/she desires, rather I see people explaining why it is not an efficient way to play.

    It's a bit of a "here we go again."

    People like Odessa know what is lost for setups like hers. The explanations aren't helpful because she knows it already, and probably heard it a million times.
    gelnd wrote: »
    I also would like to point out that self-imposed challenges, that's fine for solo play, but when it comes to squadding... certain "challenges" can be a detriment to the squad.

    Depends somewhat on the squad. I definitely agree with random squads. I wouldn't take a build like Odessa's there. If she squads with guildmates, she can probably time her t.mire with another's HF. Her mire (~50%) is alot better than any veno ironwood baring luck with demon ironwood.

    Random squad though, bad idea to go that route with something like this.
    gelnd wrote: »
    vit-axe BM

    Even though I know what you mean by this, it still sounds so weird to hear that build listed as controversial. I guess being around when Lyndura was praising axes and downplaying fists would do that...
    gelnd wrote: »
    Lesson 1) learn your skills and when to use them (and when not to use them :P). Lesson 2) Communicate with people who are trying to help you understand your class better!

    Agreed.
    Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »
    To call it a self-imposed challenge is one thing. To claim that it is not fail, is another. While fail might be a bit harsh, it is in essence, and in harsh reality, true.

    Ultimately, this is a game, and it's suppose to be enjoyable. Her build doesn't fail because she's enjoying it.

    I'm not going to say it's the most efficient build out there. I don't think anyone has claimed that. HF is indeed very powerful and recommended to be used. All I will claim is that certain valid playstyles for BMs do not play well with HF.
  • StudmuffinIX - Archosaur
    StudmuffinIX - Archosaur Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Ok u seriously keep missing what we're trying to tell u. It's fail because it isn't efficient, it doesn't matter if she enjoys it or not, what would u say to a cleric that enjoys DDing and refuses to use heals.
  • gelnd
    gelnd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I admit I was too harsh. I apologize.

    It's all good, I get tense on the internets too. b:thanks


    People like Odessa know what is lost for setups like hers. The explanations aren't helpful because she knows it already, and probably heard it a million times.

    The thing is, it needn't be lost. I would totally understand if she just *couldn't* use HF with her build, and I'd support her in playing that way if she wanted. But how hard would it be to hotkey a cheap set of axes, debuff the mobs with HF, and go back to fist DD? Heck, doesn't even have to be an axe her level, since she's not built to wield axes... just whatever she can swing around to use the debuff.
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    gelnd wrote: »
    The thing is, it needn't be lost. I would totally understand if she just *couldn't* use HF with her build, and I'd support her in playing that way if she wanted. But how hard would it be to hotkey a cheap set of axes, debuff the mobs with HF, and go back to fist DD? Heck, doesn't even have to be an axe her level, since she's not built to wield axes... just whatever she can swing around to use the debuff.

    Honestly, she likely can't use HF. She wouldn't have it, making the axe pointless. For a challenge build, using an axe to reach her goal would defeat the point. The goal of her build would be something like "reach Lv X using only Fists." Using an axe along the way would mean she failed to achieve her goal.

    It's also likely she spent her spirit getting ahold of a good genie. Getting one with 100 points in Str at a relatively early level is a pain in the neck.

    If the goal of a given BM build is to be great in a party, her build fails badly. The goal of her build is not that, so it failing that goal is meaningless to her.
    StudmuffinIX - Archosaur wrote: »
    Ok u seriously keep missing what we're trying to tell u.

    The feeling is mutual.
  • StudmuffinIX - Archosaur
    StudmuffinIX - Archosaur Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Honestly, she likely can't use HF. She wouldn't have it, making the axe pointless. For a challenge build, using an axe to reach her goal would defeat the point. The goal of her build would be something like "reach Lv X using only Fists." Using an axe along the way would mean she failed to achieve her goal.

    It's also likely she spent her spirit getting ahold of a good genie. Getting one with 100 points in Str at a relatively early level is a pain in the neck.

    If the goal of a given BM build is to be great in a party, her build fails badly. The goal of her build is not that, so it failing that goal is meaningless to her.



    The feeling is mutual.

    *facepalm, facepalm, facepalm, facepalm*

    ok 1 thing first why are u answering questions on her behalf and second ur excuses are ****, u would rather use up ur spirit on a genie than get HF (one of the best, if not the best, skill in this game). seriously if thats the case then u deserve to be called fail, over and over, and over and over........

    p.s the rest of ur post is just too stupid for me to even comment on because then i'd just be stating the odvious... b:bye
  • gelnd
    gelnd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    @Laranda: First off, I understand your reasoning. Second, I think you're imposing a more rational view onto Odessa than she has really demonstrated. Nowhere did she say "I needed to spend the points on genie, will get HF if I ever have the spirit to spare" she just basically said "I don't wanna use HF cuz I wanna be different kkthxbai." Also, assuming she has a high level archer and she's sharing gear from Archer with BM... she could also use Archer to farm coin to buy a genie... just a thought. Again, it's not like I have a problem with LA BMs, or people playing how they want... I do, however, have a problem with people refusing to consider viable, helpful options, simply because "they want to be different." At least have a semblance of reasoning for what you're doing and not doing. To use my previous examples, a light armor cleric feels the def makes up for the lost mag - okay, there's a benefit. A vit BM likes having more HP and tankability at the expense of not having the attack speed of claws. Whether these benefits outweigh the commonly accepted builds is debatable, but at least there are benefits. Refusing to use a good skill just because "everyone else uses it" does not posit a benefit to the imposed limitation.

    @StudmuffinIX: Remember that thing I said about condescending posts not furthering your attitude? You might wanna think about that. :P
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    gelnd wrote: »
    @Laranda: First off, I understand your reasoning. Second, I think you're imposing a more rational view onto Odessa than she has really demonstrated.

    Fair enough. I've done builds like that before, just not completed any in pwi. That's where my comments come from. I'll phrase the rest in something more neutral. o.o
    gelnd wrote: »
    Refusing to use a good skill just because "everyone else uses it" does not posit a benefit to the imposed limitation.

    Not using an obviously good skill is one way to do a challenge build. The "benefit" is increased difficulty. Like playing a game on hard mode. The only real benefit would be finding a mechanic to exploit that a non-challenge build might not bother to try. For that, if it's a benefit would be if a general build is using it, not if they could use it.

    For example, mire could be kinda pointless if someone squads alot with venos or the upcoming mystic. A challenge build might avoid parties, making it more useful.

    Edit: I should restate that better. The "benefit" is meta in nature. For example, the difficulty increase above. There usually isn't a benefit one can put into a build calculator baring getting relatively better benefits from mechanics that a normal build wouldn't get as much out of. (Basically, why use mire when one has HF and a veno/mystic. If one doesn't have HF or a veno/mystic, mire is more worthwhile to use.)
    gelnd wrote: »
    Also, assuming she has a high level archer and she's sharing gear from Archer with BM... she could also use Archer to farm coin to buy a genie... just a thought.

    In general, not using resources from another alt is one way to challenge oneself. Kinda like starting the game over again. o.O

    (Though, you are correct in your first assumption. She stated in another thread she had an Archer. As for the second thought, no idea if she did that or not.)
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Fair enough. I've done builds like that before, just not completed any in pwi. That's where my comments come from. I'll phrase the rest in something more neutral. o.o



    Not using an obviously good skill is one way to do a challenge build. The "benefit" is increased difficulty. Like playing a game on hard mode. The only real benefit would be finding a mechanic to exploit that a non-challenge build might not bother to try. For that, if it's a benefit would be if a general build is using it, not if they could use it.

    For example, mire could be kinda pointless if someone squads alot with venos or the upcoming mystic. A challenge build might avoid parties, making it more useful.
    Edit: I should restate that better. The "benefit" is meta in nature. For example, the difficulty increase above. There usually isn't a benefit one can put into a build calculator baring getting relatively better benefits from mechanics that a normal build wouldn't get as much out of. (Basically, why use mire when one has HF and a veno/mystic. If one doesn't have HF or a veno/mystic, mire is more worthwhile to use.)



    In general, not using resources from another alt is one way to challenge oneself. Kinda like starting the game over again. o.O

    (Though, you are correct in your first assumption. She stated in another thread she had an Archer. As for the second thought, no idea if she did that or not.)

    ...you do know that mire STACKS with other phys debuffs right?

    seriously are we playing the same game or is your face so far up odessa's *** that you can no longer read skill descriptions or look at a debuff bar?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • StudmuffinIX - Archosaur
    StudmuffinIX - Archosaur Posts: 443 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ...you do know that mire STACKS with other phys debuffs right?

    seriously are we playing the same game or is your face so far up odessa's *** that you can no longer read skill descriptions or look at a debuff bar?

    theres just no point in responding to her.... her posts are becoming more idiotic by the hour. nrxt thing u know will be that she also doesnt use demon spark on her pure dex fist only BM because its more of a challenge. b:bye
  • OdessaWolf - Dreamweaver
    OdessaWolf - Dreamweaver Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ...or is your face so far up odessa's *** that you can no longer read skill descriptions or look at a debuff bar?

    Seriously, does it have to come to that? You guys can shame my build or my view all you want. But dont go shaming Laranda by sayin such as u so described... seriously, IQ lvl reduced...

    Laranda, i do appreciate you trying to explain my motives for my build, but its ok, no need to try to further explain to them. (As you have explained better than i can put into words) As long as HF is included, they are happy. We'll keep them happy that way. IJS, there is no point talking bout it any further.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AuroraLucia - Archosaur
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur Posts: 279 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Why is it everyone can't see that both are right?

    It is Odessa's build, her character, her choice. If she chooses to not use HF, that is her choice. That said though, when you are in a squad, you are no longer doing what you want, you are doing what is best for everyone. When it comes to BH59, it is in the best interest of the squad for an arcane armor to tank Glut and Drake, as it allows the most amount of damage to be done. It doesn't matter that the Barb has a perfect Vit build, what matters is what is safest and best for everyone.

    Using HF on a boss is in the best interest of the squad. A squad is about being a team player, not just doing what you want because you want to be different. I can respect a person using swords. I can respect it if a Blademaster chooses to use a magic staff if he or she wants, go ahead. It doesn't mean you shouldn't still use HF when that is what is best for everyone. I don't care who you are, if I have the lead and you are not using HF on Soulbanisher in TT to make sure it doesn't get it's AoE powerful enough to kill everyone, I will kick you and find someone else who is willing to help the squad.

    So Odessa, I completely understand where you are coming from. Go out and be the best sword Blademaster you can be and I hope you kick ***. However, understand that by not doing what you can to help the squad the most, you will be criticized, and rightly so. Several times recently, I have had to act as the tank on a level 81 Assassin in FC. Just because I can Shadow Escape, keep my exp and let everyone else die on bad runs because the Barb failed doesn't mean I should. Instead, I use Alpha, lead the mobs away, and if I can manage to survive that, Escape and save myself. However it is in the best interest of the squad that I keep the Cleric alive rather than be selfish.
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ...you do know that mire STACKS with other phys debuffs right?

    I forgot a detail. It happens. I don't mind being corrected if I forget something.

    You made a similar mistake during the last thread a few weeks ago. So I hope you know where I'm coming from with that.
    AuroraLucia - Archosaur wrote:
    Why is it everyone can't see that both are right?

    I wish I knew. You are right.
  • Asperitas - Lost City
    Asperitas - Lost City Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Fair enough. I've done builds like that before, just not completed any in pwi. That's where my comments come from. I'll phrase the rest in something more neutral. o.o



    Not using an obviously good skill is one way to do a challenge build. The "benefit" is increased difficulty. Like playing a game on hard mode. The only real benefit would be finding a mechanic to exploit that a non-challenge build might not bother to try. For that, if it's a benefit would be if a general build is using it, not if they could use it.

    For example, mire could be kinda pointless if someone squads alot with venos or the upcoming mystic. A challenge build might avoid parties, making it more useful.

    Edit: I should restate that better. The "benefit" is meta in nature. For example, the difficulty increase above. There usually isn't a benefit one can put into a build calculator baring getting relatively better benefits from mechanics that a normal build wouldn't get as much out of. (Basically, why use mire when one has HF and a veno/mystic. If one doesn't have HF or a veno/mystic, mire is more worthwhile to use.)



    In general, not using resources from another alt is one way to challenge oneself. Kinda like starting the game over again. o.O

    (Though, you are correct in your first assumption. She stated in another thread she had an Archer. As for the second thought, no idea if she did that or not.)

    First of all, classifying a pure LA fist BM as a self-imposed challenge, hard-mode character is purely hypothetical. OdessaWolf did not say so herself, nor did she imply it in any sense or way. When I had shared my opinions before, she simply called me another "fist-axe drone" and in her post here, called everyone who calls her build "fail" ignorant. I would much rather surmise, like gelnd, that she's just doing it because she wants to be different.

    Whatever her intentions are, she's having fun with her build, that's great, life is good.

    The problem arises when you're bringing this character in squad situations, where your added benefit of difficulty may not be shared equally amongst your squadmates. I mean, you could tell your squad beforehand you're a pure fist BM, but ultimately, you're dragging them down. They might be indifferent to you doing so, but in all likelihood, they'd appreciate it a lot more if you fulfilled your role to the best of your ability, even if it's equipping a pair of level 1 axes and throwing in a Heaven's Flame.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is:

    It's all good and dandy to want to be different, but make sure you're not dragging anyone else down with you as you're doing it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Laranda - Heavens Tear
    Laranda - Heavens Tear Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »
    The problem arises when you're bringing this character in squad situations, where your added benefit of difficulty may not be shared equally amongst your squadmates. I mean, you could tell your squad beforehand you're a pure fist BM, but ultimately, you're dragging them down. They might be indifferent to you doing so, but in all likelihood, they'd appreciate it a lot more if you fulfilled your role to the best of your ability, even if it's equipping a pair of level 1 axes and throwing in a Heaven's Flame.

    I agree. I already stated I would not recommend squadding, especially with random squads, with such a character.
  • gelnd
    gelnd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I suppose it's up to personal definition, but I don't really think the "hard mode" analogy logically applies. By neglecting certain options, the mob does not gain any skill... Odessa simply has to smack each mob singly for a longer period of time, possibly using more hp pots/charms. It doesn't so much create extra challenge as it does consume extra time.

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