Multi-boxing is allowed

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  • Barber - Heavens Tear
    Barber - Heavens Tear Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Kazunoko - Archosaur wrote: »


    Multi-clienting (running elementclient multiple times on the same PC) is not allowed. However, if you are like me (and I will assume most of you are) you are using DSL or Cable Internet access through a router. The external IP address visible to PWI is the same, regardless of whether you are multi-clienting or multi-boxing. Therefore, even though it is disallowed by the ToS there is really no way for a GM to prove you were multi-clienting and not multi-boxing.

    actually youre wrong about this if you are using a router with multiple pcs attached to it you will have a different ip for each pc you use thats how a router works the ending numbers will be 1 number different ie: -1, -2, -3, -4....mine can allow up to 100 pcs so go figure

    the IP will be the same but it will be 1 number off according to ID's most of the time a Moderator will just ban the whole IP address to get rid of everyone of the numbers

    god i hated AoHell when moderating because thier IP address were all the same no matter where they came from...if ya banned the whole IP chain you banned everyone that used AOL :p
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  • Kazunoko - Archosaur
    Kazunoko - Archosaur Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Barber - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    actually youre wrong about this if you are using a router with multiple pcs attached to it you will have a different ip for each pc you use thats how a router works the ending numbers will be 1 number different ie: -1, -2, -3, -4....mine can allow up to 100 pcs so go figure

    the IP will be the same but it will be 1 number off according to ID's most of the time a Moderator will just ban the whole IP address to get rid of everyone of the numbers

    god i hated AoHell when moderating because thier IP address were all the same no matter where they came from...if ya banned the whole IP chain you banned everyone that used AOL :p

    I meant the external IP, not the internal NAT IP. To see what I mean, open a web browser and go here:

    http://www.whatismyip.com/

    So unless PWI checks your MAC address or if elementclient sends the local machine IP (which it didn't in 1.3.6, don't know about 1.4.2), then all the server can see is the external IP.
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  • FiDollaYou - Sanctuary
    FiDollaYou - Sanctuary Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Barber - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    actually youre wrong about this if you are using a router with multiple pcs attached to it you will have a different ip for each pc you use thats how a router works the ending numbers will be 1 number different ie: -1, -2, -3, -4....mine can allow up to 100 pcs so go figure

    the IP will be the same but it will be 1 number off according to ID's most of the time a Moderator will just ban the whole IP address to get rid of everyone of the numbers

    god i hated AoHell when moderating because thier IP address were all the same no matter where they came from...if ya banned the whole IP chain you banned everyone that used AOL :p

    Actually, you're *probably* wrong. Most home routers NAT the connection to the outside world. So, while the individual PCs in your home do have separate IP addresses, they are probably in one of the reserved, non-routable net blocks set aside for this. Most likely, the IP addresses you have start with 192.168.X.X. However, on the Internet side of your router, there is only one IP address. Your router keeps track of which attached PC gets what incoming traffic.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    FiDollaYou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Actually, you're *probably* wrong. Most home routers NAT the connection to the outside world. So, while the individual PCs in your home do have separate IP addresses, they are probably in one of the reserved, non-routable net blocks set aside for this. Most likely, the IP addresses you have start with 192.168.X.X. However, on the Internet side of your router, there is only one IP address. Your router keeps track of which attached PC gets what incoming traffic.

    Uh...

    The packets that arrive to PWI's servers do not contain MAC addresses from your PC's network card.

    PWI would have to illegally access your ISP's internal routing table to get that information, and all they would get is your Cable modem's MAC address. If they went a step further, all they would get would be your router's MAC address.

    >_> Good grief.
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  • FiDollaYou - Sanctuary
    FiDollaYou - Sanctuary Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Uh...

    The packets that arrive to PWI's servers do not contain MAC addresses from your PC's network card.

    PWI would have to illegally access your ISP's internal routing table to get that information, and all they would get is your Cable modem's MAC address. If they went a step further, all they would get would be your router's MAC address.

    >_> Good grief.

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    Not sure if you intended to quote ME with your response, but ... if you did I'm not sure why? NAT works just fine (in a manner of speaking). Trust me. Your little NetGear wireless router works just the way I described it. Or LinkSys. Or D-Link. Or whatever brand you have.
  • Sarrafeline - Sanctuary
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary Posts: 4,661 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    FiDollaYou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Albuquerque. See, I can do it to. Snorkel.

    Not sure if you intended to quote ME with your response, but ... if you did I'm not sure why? NAT works just fine (in a manner of speaking). Trust me. Your little NetGear wireless router works just the way I described it. Or LinkSys. Or D-Link. Or whatever brand you have.

    Yes, and the ENTIRE INTERNET uses NAT, in a matter of speaking. >_>

    I quoted you because I was lazy, and you used the word 'probably'.

    Look, IP is the only thing that leaves your house that PWI sees that can identify your computer over the internet, other than some information PWI client itself puts in the packets.

    If you are behind a router, using Cable internet, DSL internet, FiOS, or any other kind of high-speed, all PWI can see is your modem's IP.

    MAC address never leaves your internal network; it's used by your router and computers only.

    So other than there being a special program being built into PWI client, there isn't any specific way for PWI to actually know if you are using two clients on one computer. >_> NAT or no, it does not matter.

    Don't make me rage and use huge text with underline and red and post pictures from 4chan.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    They are running software on your computer. ElementClient.exe can quite happily look and find out anything it likes. (Especially since launcher requires admin - though you can currently run client without going through the launcher) and then send it back to the mothership.

    Wasn't there some news a few months ago that chinese servers were making multiple clients legal and taking out the checks against it? That was when we got the accidental 'are you botting' question, that they'd forgotten to translate.

    Don't think that ever made it across to us, though.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    hm... makes me curious. I never bothered to compare my moms PC IP and my laptop & desktop IP
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  • FiDollaYou - Sanctuary
    FiDollaYou - Sanctuary Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes, and the ENTIRE INTERNET uses NAT, in a matter of speaking. >_>

    No it doesn't. I think I get a sense of what you mean, but... just no.
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I quoted you because I was lazy, and you used the word 'probably'.

    I used the word "probably" because the poster I quoted may NOT have been behind a NATted connection.
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Look, IP is the only thing that leaves your house that PWI sees that can identify your computer over the internet, other than some information PWI client itself puts in the packets.

    And the port number. And the rest of the info in the header. But you are basically correct. I'm STILL a bit uncertain why or how you disagree with me. Or even if you are...
    Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »
    If you are behind a router, using Cable internet, DSL internet, FiOS, or any other kind of high-speed, all PWI can see is your modem's IP.

    MAC address never leaves your internal network; it's used by your router and computers only.

    So other than there being a special program being built into PWI client, there isn't any specific way for PWI to actually know if you are using two clients on one computer. >_> NAT or no, it does not matter.

    Don't make me rage and use huge text with underline and red and post pictures from 4chan.

    Not quite true. The way that NAT (technically we're talking "NAPT" here) usually differentiates the attached machines is by port number. So, two different TCP connections to the same IP address and the same port number would certainly be a red flag. There are other ways that wouldn't involve a "special program". Nor would they involve using the MAC address (still not sure why you brought that up, but ...)

    Suffice to say, if they gave a fig they could do it.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    This thread is full of win.

    And by "win" I mean idiots.

    And by "idiots" I mean people generating facepalms.

    And those saying "vmware" and "mac addresses" are worthy of truly epic facepalms.
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  • Celestyna - Heavens Tear
    Celestyna - Heavens Tear Posts: 629 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »
    What about a virtual PC?

    Its technically a seperate computer and doesnt trick the client into running twice in the same workspace. but physically, its one PC :O

    I can even set mine up to have a different internal IP address, meaning its DEFINATELY not the same PC as far as anyone is concerned.... right? b:cute

    I asked and was told no by spoons, mind you he isnt here anymore *shrugs*
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  • Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear
    Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear Posts: 816 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    All I know is ... I do what I want =D But I think its easier and less taxing on the computer to multi-box then try to run two clients on my computer... I'm quite happy with running my PC and my Lappy side by side with the game running.
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  • matty71
    matty71 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »
    Re-read it plox.

    You can set a virtual machine to have its own internal IP.

    So, your PC = 255.0.255.001

    Dads lappy = 255.0.255.002

    Mums PC = 255.0.255.003

    Your Virtual PC running on your original PC 255.0.255.004

    And no, the game cannot check if its being run on a virtal PC as far as I know.

    Also, considering its perfectly fine to multiclient over in PWCN, im REALLY doubting theres any internal tracking, so IP is all they have to ride on.

    unfortunately, it may be an old thread, but someone recently messaged in it, and i had to read it myself...

    ok to put things into perspective, a computer cannot tell if another computer is running a virtual pc, BUT to connect to another computer (server, router or anything you need to connect to either a network or the internet) you need a MAC address, with that, the people at the server end watching all of this, can tell if theres more than 2 clients running on a machine, REGARDLESS if its a virtual machine, you cannot change your ip for one single mac address to be several IP's whether if its inside your home network, or work network...its just not possible 1 MAC address = 1 IP address...so if they see 2 ip address, they can check the MAC address to see if they match, if they do, ban-hammer on you...

    on another note, it is not illegal to remote desktop, cuz its still physically running on a diff computer, but chances are you wont be able to run it anyway...

    now if someone knows how to change the IP address of a MAC address to have multiple please pm me...i am quite curious
  • FiDollaYou - Sanctuary
    FiDollaYou - Sanctuary Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    matty71 wrote: »
    unfortunately, it may be an old thread, but someone recently messaged in it, and i had to read it myself...

    ok to put things into perspective, a computer cannot tell if another computer is running a virtual pc, BUT to connect to another computer (server, router or anything you need to connect to either a network or the internet) you need a MAC address, with that, the people at the server end watching all of this, can tell if theres more than 2 clients running on a machine, REGARDLESS if its a virtual machine, you cannot change your ip for one single mac address to be several IP's whether if its inside your home network, or work network...its just not possible 1 MAC address = 1 IP address...so if they see 2 ip address, they can check the MAC address to see if they match, if they do, ban-hammer on you...

    on another note, it is not illegal to remote desktop, cuz its still physically running on a diff computer, but chances are you wont be able to run it anyway...

    now if someone knows how to change the IP address of a MAC address to have multiple please pm me...i am quite curious

    Wrong. MAC address stays inside the Ethernet collision domain. So, unless you happen to be on the same physical shared medium as the game servers, then they ain't a'seein your MAC address.

    Shall we put this one to bed, please?
  • LifeAfterDth - Heavens Tear
    LifeAfterDth - Heavens Tear Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    lol its hillarious. Ive never seen so much ignorance in one place, bravo lol.

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