Wizards and damage

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

you are a moron. He doesnt have a video of them so they arent as good? They can solo any rank 9 +12 on the server, but like you said your completely ignorant yet make stupid statements. Im not taking away form cheze, he looked pro, if there's such a thing on a sin.

Ursa, you dont know **** about pvp, I rolled HT first, the level of skill difference involved is so drastic its not funny.

I'm pretty sure Ursa could roll you before you knew what hit you. Ursa is one of the best wizards I know around.

MageFizban - Lost City

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

you are a moron. He doesnt have a video of them so they arent as good? They can solo any rank 9 +12 on the server, but like you said your completely ignorant yet make stupid statements. Im not taking away form cheze, he looked pro, if there's such a thing on a sin.

Ursa, you dont know **** about pvp, I rolled HT first, the level of skill difference involved is so drastic its not funny.

I'm pretty sure Ursa could roll you also. cheze and I both originally came from DW so your last point is pretty much moot.


*Edit:

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

one and done? Please explain And the bm is sage (you know from the sage fairy and the sage chi skill etc), so sparking doesn't increase aps lol

Adroit, you posted the link of cheze vs NyKage and then started listing off Calvin's stats.

To clear things up, NyKage is a demon bm with full +10 armor and +12 TT100 fists.

Adroit - Lost City

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Ursa could roll you also. cheze and I both originally came from DW so your last point is pretty much moot.


*Edit:


Adroit, you posted the link of cheze vs NyKage and then started listing off Calvin's stats.

To clear things up, NyKage is a demon bm with full +10 armor and +12 TT100 fists.

lol sounds like something I'd do.. I dunno what made me think we were talking about Calvin xD

JYUUU - Harshlands

Korrok - Harshlands wrote: »

I'd say better than Viper and Joppe even, though I've never seen them really 1v1 a good player.

I'm just saying, there's no one on par with Cheze's skill/gear mix on harshlands, since everything on HL boils down to "lolololol we haz 15 more ppl here dan u y u so nub QQmoar"

What u said don't make any sense, u never seen joppe, Viper or even Bludd 1v1 and u can say that cheze is much better than em? Actually i saw joppe fighting several times & he's skilled.Bludd shouldn't be that bad too.Viper i don't know, but he's playing sin for a few, so i'm not expecting him to be a monster skillwise.
We got a lot of decent geared sins on HL by the way...

And LC is just like HL in PK places, ganking, ganking & ganking.
People just took initiative for some 1v1s, just like some people are doing in HL but w/o recording.

Skillwise, true that LC may be a lil over HL, that's why i'm thinking about rerolling, but still HL is more active in PVP from what i've seen observating LC in the last days.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

Skillwise, true that LC may be a lil over HL, that's why i'm thinking about rerolling, but still HL is more active in PVP from what i've seen observating LC in the last days.

I guess this started as a Topic about the dmg of the wiz but now it looks like it has become a complete pvp discussion. So instead of discussing who got more "skill" i would rather talk about the influence of different components on the wiz dmg.

One thing more about the "pvp-skill" in general : if you want to play a game where player skill is the key factor to win you made the wrong choice by playing a mmorpg because in every mmorpg i came across so far a basic understanding of your character is enough to win if your lvl and/or equipment is better than your opponents lvl/equipment. And since lvl/equipment are basically based on the amount of time you want to devote to the game or the amount of $ you want to spend it's more a question of how much you want to invest to boost your power. Guess why so many people were screaming when the rank sale came because they realized that they wouldnt be able to compete unless they buy the rank gear. You can b:angry me now for having said that and call me noob since i only got 35 pvp kills from TW so far and im playing on a PVE server but while i hear all the LC-players cry about annoying ganking from sins i can play totally relaxed here without being forced to compete in a fight i hardly have a chance to win.

Furthermore the question if the sin was skilled is wrong because for a phys class designed to kill robes it should be easy to kill them because that's what they were made for. So if a sin fails to kill a equally geared wiz with same lvl i would say the player of the sin should learn the character + when you talk about how things run in pvp you should consider both players as experienced and capable to use the advantages of their class to the max.

backtopic:

to which extent do you think a wiz looses attack power when going for better
tank abilities and are wiz supposed to tank at all since we have high def low hp?
I mean considering that elemental necklaces and belts have all the stats
( -chan magic phy res) a wiz is looking for why do we still use phys ornaments
just to improve our physical def? I mean i know we need it to be able to tank in delta
but are we really supposed to tank in instances /boss with DB? I mean wiz is the worst class for tanking multiple mobs if you look how low our hp per vit point ratio is. Furthermore the -chan items wont effect a zhen skill like DB but will greatly improve your DPS on normal casts telling us -->kil 1by1 instead of aoe them or if you aoe them use your nukes.

greetz harm0wnie

JYUUU - Harshlands

Did i say that skill is the key factor for the game? no.
Still, wizard is a class which combinated with decent skills & knowledge of the game who can lead you to kill people who are far better geared than you.
If u don't trust me, than just do like i did a few days ago, i logged a char in LC and spoke around with some wizzes until i found Adroit.Check his gears & then ask him to show u a fight, i can't see anything except skill when he wins against people with 2 years+ playing in LC & full nirvana. ( he's geared with TT90s & 1st recast +10 weapon )
And please don't tell me the people he fought in LC were noobs with 35 kills on a PVE serv...

About the part where you talking about sins, that's where we can that you didn't PVP much.Obviously sins are made to take down AA, just like wizzes are made to take down HA.Still did u see any wiz oneshotting a decent barb w/ a simple gush? Not me.Any sins can oneshot a decent wiz with a spike crit when wiz is equal geared.

"i hear all the LC-players cry about annoying ganking from sins i can play totally relaxed here without being forced to compete in a fight i hardly have a chance to win."

Yea sure that it always better to give up and roll a boring PVE server, where no ones is doing any shet except BH & nirvana...
if u aren't tryin to fight sins, sure that you'll never improve the match-up, and this is where skill matters, because against a normal sin, with good timings, you still have a little chance to win.Not speaking about +12 zerk obviously.

And by the way, your last paragraph just makes non sense, if i ever see a wiz wearing magical necks for -chan, i'll just laugh.
Being a squishy class isn't a reason to say "I'm squishy, then imma get -chan so i can gush, pyrogram faster!!"
If u are TWing/PVPing a lil, u'll need some physical def or you'll be a oneshot for any archer, and please stop talking about PVE, wiz don't have any use in PVE, except for GV where u'll need some decent pdef since u got aggro of the mobs most of the time.
And DDing mobs 1by1 in GV is just ridiculous, making chi to drop an ulti time to time? Come on, u'll be more efficient setting up the very nice zhen we got.
I'm usually zhenning the whole GV, just using BIDS at 3rd & 9th before settings zhen.
And i can't see how a wiz is the worst class for tanking multiple mobs? we got earth shield helping us to get a very good pdef with only decent ornaments and some pdef adds. You just need to refine for some HP, shard hp and u easily hit enough to tank mobs in GV.I'm doing it without charm or even expel on genie atm, and with all aggro on me usually.
I think it's much harder for archer to tank several mobs with their crappy defs btw...

I think u should try to get some experience because you obviously aren't experienced enough and don't have a clue of what you are talking about.

Korrok - Harshlands

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

What u said don't make any sense, u never seen joppe, Viper or even Bludd 1v1 and u can say that cheze is much better than em? Actually i saw joppe fighting several times & he's skilled.Bludd shouldn't be that bad too.Viper i don't know, but he's playing sin for a few, so i'm not expecting him to be a monster skillwise.
We got a lot of decent geared sins on HL by the way...

And LC is just like HL in PK places, ganking, ganking & ganking.
People just took initiative for some 1v1s, just like some people are doing in HL but w/o recording.

Skillwise, true that LC may be a lil over HL, that's why i'm thinking about rerolling, but still HL is more active in PVP from what i've seen observating LC in the last days.

Here's the thing: I have seen them 1v1, but not a tough opponent. Most of the time they pop out, **** someone, and then restealth inside of a second. I know skillwise, Viper and Joppe > Bludd. Seen that first hand in TW lulz.

But there's really no way they're as skilled as Cheze because there's no one on HL that can compete gear-wise. Cheze took on some of the best players on LC and won. Joppe and Viper don't have that kind of bar to test themselves against unfortunately.

wtb cross server pvp plox.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

Did i say that skill is the key factor for the game? no.
Still, wizard is a class which combinated with decent skills & knowledge of the game who can lead you to kill people who are far better geared than you.
If u don't trust me, than just do like i did a few days ago, i logged a char in LC and spoke around with some wizzes until i found Adroit.Check his gears & then ask him to show u a fight, i can't see anything except skill when he wins against people with 2 years+ playing in LC & full nirvana. ( he's geared with TT90s & 1st recast +10 weapon )
And please don't tell me the people he fought in LC were noobs with 35 kills on a PVE serv...

I just chose your quote because it refers to player skill and the debatte before was about
that and under which circumstances a wiz can win a sin and other offtopic pvp talk which rather fits in PvP Ponderings than in a dmg topic. You didnt say implicitely that skill is the key factor but according to your explainations some form of understanding of the class is crucial to survive in PvP. If you read my post more carefully you will notice that this is exactly the same thing that im talking about when i say "basic understanding of the class"
is needed. Maybe it was wrong from me to assume that a player who has lvled his character beyond 90 or 100 should be able to handle the mechanics of the class

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

About the part where you talking about sins, that's where we can that you didn't PVP much.Obviously sins are made to take down AA, just like wizzes are made to take down HA.Still did u see any wiz oneshotting a decent barb w/ a simple gush? Not me.Any sins can oneshot a decent wiz with a spike crit when wiz is equal geared.

It's not about 1 shotting another player what i said is that sins as a physical DD have an advantage classwise when facing robe classes for instance a wiz so the mesage is the same like in the HA example you used. In other words if the wiz knows how to kite he's one of the classes that are actually able to kill an endgame barb.

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

Yea sure that it always better to give up and roll a boring PVE server, where no ones is doing any shet except BH & nirvana...
if u aren't tryin to fight sins, sure that you'll never improve the match-up, and this is where skill matters, because against a normal sin, with good timings, you still have a little chance to win.Not speaking about +12 zerk obviously.

What's a "normal" sin? I consider r8 as minimum requirement if you want to talk about real endgame PvP because of the rank sales most of the people here are getting at least r8 some even r9 and that's on a PVE-Server. It seems to me like you forget that a sin will always have the first hit(or better hits since APS)and you wont be able to prepare yourself
you consider a PVE server as boring because you enjoy PvP and PK more than running instances working on gear and watching your character to improve instead of fighting other players in PvP situations. Well that's your personal preference i got a somewhat different approach here.

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

And by the way, your last paragraph just makes non sense, if i ever see a wiz wearing magical necks for -chan, i'll just laugh.
Being a squishy class isn't a reason to say "I'm squishy, then imma get -chan so i can gush, pyrogram faster!!"

If you ever see a -chan wiz you will notice that he is not wearing phys ornaments because
switching the ornaments to elemental is crucial if you want to max -chan. I know a wiz here on DW with ~75% of -chan and his performance in terms of PVE is just amazing
and his physical def and hp arent too bad neither. Well maybe for PvP it will make him more squishy but dont underestimate the impact of -chan gear on a wiz. Especially with Demon chan bonuses that build also shines even if it is less good in 1v1 performance

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

If u are TWing/PVPing a lil, u'll need some physical def or you'll be a oneshot for any archer, and please stop talking about PVE, wiz don't have any use in PVE, except for GV where u'll need some decent pdef since u got aggro of the mobs most of the time.
And DDing mobs 1by1 in GV is just ridiculous, making chi to drop an ulti time to time?
I think it's much harder for archer to tank several mobs with their crappy defs btw...

Well it's you who thinks wiz dont have use for PVE. It's great fun to use the wiz ultis in PVE. Had a lot of fun lately nuking whole spawn of infernal apes in Hell with my ultis together with a barb without taking 1 pot or using one genie skill. Chi regeneration isnt that bad i simply kill 1 or 2 mobs with normal spells and im full again thanks to sage chi skill and sage pyrogram.

I guess you missunderstood the last paragrapth totally so maybe i put it in other words wouldnt it be better for the wiz to use different items for certain purpose? I mean obviously in GV your DB ticks with a predefined tickrate which wont be modified regardless of how much -chan you wear so phydef > chan here while for maxing out DPS higher -chan will have it's advantages for instance during a TT where you wont use ultis or DB but faster spells = faster dropping boss. So since the topic is about DMG wouldnt the use of elemental ornaments rise the dmg output and DPS at the same time and is it worth it for some situations?

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

I think u should try to get some experience because you obviously aren't experienced enough and don't have a clue of what you are talking about.

if JYUU say so b:chuckle

greetz harm0wnie

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

you are a moron. He doesnt have a video of them so they arent as good? They can solo any rank 9 +12 on the server, but like you said your completely ignorant yet make stupid statements. Im not taking away form cheze, he looked pro, if there's such a thing on a sin.

Ursa, you dont know **** about pvp, I rolled HT first, the level of skill difference involved is so drastic its not funny.

b:chuckle
lol.
Yeah, if it makes you feel better, you're free to be as delusional as you want.
Throw in a joint and I might even be riding a red dragon through the empty streets of Archosaur on the new server that hasn't been launch yet. In that context, I agree with you: I don't know **** about PvP.
Now in real world however ...b:bye

JYUUU - Harshlands

"Maybe it was wrong from me to assume that a player who has lvled his character beyond 90 or 100 should be able to handle the mechanics of the class"

So you think because you power leveled FC from 90 to 100, you "understood" the mechanics of the class? Hum k.Actually you won't learn anything in PVE that will be useful for you in the real fights.It actually takes more than some PVE, and don't tell me u did PVP pre-100 because nowadays it's almost impossible to put decent fights.

"It's not about 1 shotting another player what i said is that sins as a physical DD have an advantage classwise when facing robe classes for instance a wiz so the mesage is the same like in the HA example you used"

So you call an advantage the fact that a sin with TT80 daggers can take down an average level 100 AA if he's playing decently? On the other hand, i never seen a wiz with TT80 taking down a 100+ barb but i see some 8x sins taking down R8 wiz everyday.I don't think u call that an 'advantage'

"It seems to me like you forget that a sin will always have the first hit(or better hits since APS)and you wont be able to prepare yourself "

And for Nukes, yes i think we are all dreaming about a cross between LC & HL, would be great

I don't think i'm "forgetting" that sins always have the first hit, i'm PVPing everyday against sins, but thanks, good to hear from a 300 kills person playing in DW.

About the channeling blabla, i'll just let you know that a wiz w/o pdef ornaments is just squishy as hell, cuz he's either sharded endgame w/ full pdef shards & his hp will be **** or he'll just have a horrible pdef, because basically almost all our pdef comes from orns. (event cape + 1 lunar ring too, but far form being enough )

About the PVE part, speaking of PVE, i consider anything that makes decent money, like nirvana or TT...When u'll find a decent NV squad w/ your channeling wiz then call me...

About the GV blabla, i've been lazy to read, but if u feel good spending money on ornaments to kill a boss 10sec faster and being a oneshot, then i'm all good.

Crit is my priority, channeling is nice but i'm considering myself as a nuker, i prefer by far being able to oneshot people, than being able to pyro>gush them a little faster.Plus, channeling comes along a crit gear, u can stack a "decent" amount.

But really, i think you should just leave the idea of the "PVE" wiz, anyone who want to farm for his wiz, use a 5 APS char nowadays that's pretty obvious because even if u stack a crazy amount of channeling, you'll never be close to 5 APS DDs in term of overall damages on bosses.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

JYUUU - Harshlands wrote: »

"Maybe it was wrong from me to assume that a player who has lvled his character beyond 90 or 100 should be able to handle the mechanics of the class"

So you think because you power leveled FC from 90 to 100, you "understood" the mechanics of the class? Hum k.Actually you won't learn anything in PVE that will be useful for you in the real fights.It actually takes more than some PVE, and don't tell me u did PVP pre-100 because nowadays it's almost impossible to put decent fights.

"It's not about 1 shotting another player what i said is that sins as a physical DD have an advantage classwise when facing robe classes for instance a wiz so the mesage is the same like in the HA example you used"

So you call an advantage the fact that a sin with TT80 daggers can take down an average level 100 AA if he's playing decently? On the other hand, i never seen a wiz with TT80 taking down a 100+ barb but i see some 8x sins taking down R8 wiz everyday.I don't think u call that an 'advantage'

"It seems to me like you forget that a sin will always have the first hit(or better hits since APS)and you wont be able to prepare yourself "

And for Nukes, yes i think we are all dreaming about a cross between LC & HL, would be great

I don't think i'm "forgetting" that sins always have the first hit, i'm PVPing everyday against sins, but thanks, good to hear from a 300 kills person playing in DW.

About the channeling blabla, i'll just let you know that a wiz w/o pdef ornaments is just squishy as hell, cuz he's either sharded endgame w/ full pdef shards & his hp will be **** or he'll just have a horrible pdef, because basically almost all our pdef comes from orns. (event cape + 1 lunar ring too, but far form being enough )

About the PVE part, speaking of PVE, i consider anything that makes decent money, like nirvana or TT...When u'll find a decent NV squad w/ your channeling wiz then call me...

About the GV blabla, i've been lazy to read, but if u feel good spending money on ornaments to kill a boss 10sec faster and being a oneshot, then i'm all good.

Crit is my priority, channeling is nice but i'm considering myself as a nuker, i prefer by far being able to oneshot people, than being able to pyro>gush them a little faster.Plus, channeling comes along a crit gear, u can stack a "decent" amount.

But really, i think you should just leave the idea of the "PVE" wiz, anyone who want to farm for his wiz, use a 5 APS char nowadays that's pretty obvious because even if u stack a crazy amount of channeling, you'll never be close to 5 APS DDs in term of overall damages on bosses.

I didn't read all of this...but

A lot of my PvP combos, started in PvE.

Some of the strongest TW tactics...were PvE tactics before applied to PvE.

You learn a TON from PvE, then you go to PvP to learn when to apply it.

Amour - Lost City

TL;DR

Mages are obsolete. Sins are OP. You suck at pk if you leveled with hypers.

Successful simplification is successful.

On the + side, yay 9920 hp buffed!

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

TL;DR

Mages are obsolete. Sins are OP. You suck at pk if you leveled with hypers.

Successful simplification is successful.

On the + side, yay 9920 hp buffed!

thank youb:cuteb:kiss