Wizards and damage

Ruxal - Harshlands

Look I'm not calling you or anyone else out or trying to pick staws from a haystack. I'm simply giving other potential wizards out there my experience using dquaff as a demon wiz along with -chan gear. It truly is a significant improvement to the point where I no longer envy their (psychic) speed.

Also in terms of dps, I have shown that with the right build (based around dquaff) we can give psys a run for their money.

I see you mention psys and venos and I have ignored them because:
1) neither of them can outdamage me in PvE.
2) In PvP they are the least of my worries.

Also if I must look at PvP essential sutra levels the playing field in terms of getting of long cast time skills. No other caster but wiz can do what sutra does. With a cloud eruption genie I can walk into a fight and almost level a field in 2 ultimates, take out the o so feared sins (and yes I truly do take them down even if stunned first but that is a different discussion) and barbs get steam rolled in 1 sutra combo even at 17k hp (so far the highest hp barb I've downed in a sutra combo).

Initially we are slow yes I agree. But with the right build and knowing when and where that becomes a complete non issue and something that a well played dwiz scoffs at.

I (I don't know about the rest of you wizzies who constantly bicker about the class) have found a way to make the most of my char and it keeps getting better.

Ruxal - Harshlands

I see you mention psys and venos and I have ignored them because

I meant clerics.

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver

Since this here is about wiz dmg i would like to hear more about how to get the wiz DPH higher than the psy dph I mean im Sage so my focus is on high AOE dmg from my ultis and not on fast casts for 1v1 PvP or PK. Nevertheless some -chan would also be great because the ultis are the spells with the longest channeling in the wiz arsenal. So the questions i would like to get answered are:

How can i get my normal hits (DPH) higher than a psychic?

I mean i know wiz got higher weapon multiplier but to me it looks like the +att lvls the psy gets lead to higher dmg in total especially if you take the new endgame gear with all the +att lvls into account. Because 22(25)att lvl + 30 from jones blessing = 52(55)% additional dmg to the dmg the psy would make from skill while wiz only gets 30%. So even if our basic dmg without any att lvl modifications would be slightly higher i doubt it will be after adding the att lvl based dmg. Someone calculated a build where in theory it is possible for a wiz to get +85 att lvls but what are 85 att lvls if a psy with equal gear would be able to get 110 att lvls then. +att lvl > weapon dmg%?

Def vs -Chan for a Wiz?

Since phys ornaments dont have -chan modifiers on them the question is what kind of equip would benefit the wiz more in the long run because all the def is useless if you your wiz attackspeed is too slow to attack the enemy while hih -chan makes your wiz even more squishy against physical attacks

Does sage even more need -Chan?

Since Sage wiz got less channeling reductions from their sage skills ( only stonerain ) the question do we need even more chan than demon to be able to compete?
I mean a Sage wiz will do more dmg than a demon wiz with a decent weapon in terms of DPH since the 5% passive mastery will >= the fixed dmg added from what i've heared but without any -chan the demon wiz will be able to cast a lot faster especially when you take demon spark and demon quarff into account. How do you see that?

greetz harm0wnie

Ruxal - Harshlands

Look with respect to the dph question. In a game where almost every character is different based on what gears, shards and refines you have it difficult to say well this is how you get your dph higher than a psychic. I think that wizards should focus more on what works for them and forget about who has the higher dph. So instead of worrying about how to get your dph higher than a psy, worry about getting it as high as you possibly can. I know a full (I mean complete set, max refine, best shards) r9 psy. I can't afford that kind of gear so I don't worry about bettering his dph.

In fact the same goes for dps. I went through great lengths to point out that demon psys can be fast casters but even then I don't focus on trying to out dd anyone. Instead I focus on maximizing what my character can do. Why did I look at psychics cast animations then? Simple because in the process of maximizing my dd output I needed a benchmark. Who cares if they have the better dps or dph, point is mine is good as well. Also as I stated up front, everyone has different gears, refines and shards so that even if a player has a psy, my wiz might still be a better dd than their psy because mine is better built.

Now as far as the def versus -chan goes my take is that it depends on what you want from your character and your approach to PvP (I assume PvP is your focus here). In PvP how many of your opponents use physical attacks? Sin, BM, Barb, Veno Physical atks + Pet Phys attack, Archer and of course there is Wiz BT. Good so alot of them. So right there is a partial answer to your question. If you want to survive being 1/2 shot you are going to need some physical defense. Question is how much? From reading your post you seem to be a sage wiz. Well how much depends on what gear you can afford or how lucky you are for e.g. I got lucky with packs and have a puzzle cube badge necklace. I could swap it out for a -6 chan necklace and I do plan to buy 1 and perhaps put them on my skill bar to change according to the situation. But for now the puzzle cube gives me a significant damage buffer in PvP.

So what I would say is this: Determine based on your gears, pots, genie skills, refines and what ever else (heck even lag on your connection) what level of survivability you need in order to be competitive. For me, I can survive a 1/2 shot from a sin or bm or even an archer and that buys me enough time to launch my counterattack. With sutra or dquaff I have enough speed and power to take most of them out. No one can really say numerically what works so it boils down to getting out there and actually fighting some people to determine exactly what balance of def/-chan you will need.

Look, as a sage wiz your build is about power and not speed. Still, you have sutra. That means that during your window of opportunity you should have more power than a dwiz to put your opponent down. For you I would say chi and not -chan is your friend. You have Master Li, spyro, chi pots and cloud eruption. To get skills off in time you have sutra and chan pots. I addition you can still get about -12 from rings (fc/lunar/oht) and another -12 from sleeves and chest. If you are rich/lucky you can get -3 from a warsoul helm and -6 from a lunar cape. In total that is still a respectable -33% chan and that is not bad.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

@harm0wnie

look at your skills, what seems to affect a lot of the components for dmg?
Improve that and your dph will go through the roof.
Channel is good, but not something to die for. Get enough to be able to cast an ulti while seal/sleep. Get more if you can but don't trade pdef for it. Get your crit rate as high as possible because...DPH...remember? Better chance to do double damage.
PM me ingame, I'll show you some tricks, lol.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Since this here is about wiz dmg i would like to hear more about how to get the wiz DPH higher than the psy dph I mean im Sage so my focus is on high AOE dmg from my ultis and not on fast casts for 1v1 PvP or PK. Nevertheless some -chan would also be great because the ultis are the spells with the longest channeling in the wiz arsenal. So the questions i would like to get answered are:

How can i get my normal hits (DPH) higher than a psychic?

I mean i know wiz got higher weapon multiplier but to me it looks like the +att lvls the psy gets lead to higher dmg in total especially if you take the new endgame gear with all the +att lvls into account. Because 22(25)att lvl + 30 from jones blessing = 52(55)% additional dmg to the dmg the psy would make from skill while wiz only gets 30%. So even if our basic dmg without any att lvl modifications would be slightly higher i doubt it will be after adding the att lvl based dmg. Someone calculated a build where in theory it is possible for a wiz to get +85 att lvls but what are 85 att lvls if a psy with equal gear would be able to get 110 att lvls then. +att lvl > weapon dmg%?

Def vs -Chan for a Wiz?

Since phys ornaments dont have -chan modifiers on them the question is what kind of equip would benefit the wiz more in the long run because all the def is useless if you your wiz attackspeed is too slow to attack the enemy while hih -chan makes your wiz even more squishy against physical attacks

Does sage even more need -Chan?

Since Sage wiz got less channeling reductions from their sage skills ( only stonerain ) the question do we need even more chan than demon to be able to compete?
I mean a Sage wiz will do more dmg than a demon wiz with a decent weapon in terms of DPH since the 5% passive mastery will >= the fixed dmg added from what i've heared but without any -chan the demon wiz will be able to cast a lot faster especially when you take demon spark and demon quarff into account. How do you see that?

greetz harm0wnie

for DPH...refine your weapon past +2?

Adroit - Lost City

Ruxal, your walls of text are TL,DR. I'd love to know how you somehow beat sins 1v1, because something tells me you are talking about the baddie ones.. because a good sin will not give you a chance lol.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

good sins don't give a chance to your charm to tick, lol.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

feared sins (and yes I truly do take them down even if stunned first but that is a different discussion)

You and Pearlwood should have lunch, ijs.

And Adroit/Ursa, the explaination is quoted above: he is still fighting sins that stun first. C'mon, its kinda cute. "Coochie coochie coo, little wiz. Whose a big boy wizzie? You are! yes you are!!"

Wait till he meets a rank 9 sin that doesn't even bother to stun you anymore . . . .

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

look at your skills, what seems to affect a lot of the components for dmg?

Shhhhh, don't them READ their skills.

TY 30 gold ocean orbs, my R8 on sanctuary is +10 now, muhahahaha

Ruxal - Harshlands

I said "even if" and no they were not noob sins that I fought but neither were they r9. Furthermore im on a PvP server so it is almost never 1v1. I would expect someone with r9 weapon +anything to rip through me duh but I would also expect a r9 wiz to be able to handle a r9 sin so lemme ask all of you who been replying: which of you is a r9 wiz?

BUT since my post are not appreciated and only regarded as giant walls of text and you all intend to ridicule me because I say I have a roughly 50% record once I engage sins in battles then I will exit myself from your discussions seeing as the way you guys see things cannot be disputed.

Have fun, I'll sitck to being in game and enjoying myself there.

Adroit - Lost City

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

I said "even if" and no they were not noob sins that I fought but neither were they r9. Furthermore im on a PvP server so it is almost never 1v1. I would expect someone with r9 weapon +anything to rip through me duh but I would also expect a r9 wiz to be able to handle a r9 sin so lemme ask all of you who been replying: which of you is a r9 wiz?

BUT since my post are not appreciated and only regarded as giant walls of text and you all intend to ridicule me because I say I have a roughly 50% record once I engage sins in battles then I will exit myself from your discussions seeing as the way you guys see things cannot be disputed.

Have fun, I'll sitck to being in game and enjoying myself there.

When you see that a sin can kill a 14k hp (unbuffed) bm that is 100 skilled (1000% pdef) in < 4 seconds without even sparking (check my vid cheze vs NyKage).. you get the idea that nothing will save you from a sin. Besides my personal experience that tell me that there is no chance against a good sin, I see r9 wizards get totally destroyed by sins pretty regularly.

Everyone in the wizard community (and almost everyone in pwi) knows that sins are disgustingly OP, I'm just curious why its taking you this long to come to the same conclusion. Low IQ? No experience? Who knows.. and I really don't care what it is.. but if you can't figure out something that simple, you really aren't going to have much to offer anyway. Cya.

Korrok - Harshlands

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

When you see that a sin can kill a 14k hp (unbuffed) bm that is 100 skilled (1000% pdef) in < 4 seconds without even sparking (check my vid cheze vs NyKage).. you get the idea that nothing will save you from a sin. Besides my personal experience that tell me that there is no chance against a good sin, I see r9 wizards get totally destroyed by sins pretty regularly.

Everyone in the wizard community (and almost everyone in pwi) knows that sins are disgustingly OP, I'm just curious why its taking you this long to come to the same conclusion. Low IQ? No experience? Who knows.. and I really don't care what it is.. but if you can't figure out something that simple, you really aren't going to have much to offer anyway. Cya.

It's cause he's on Harshlands. Sins here aren't even close to the same level as Cheze. Not even remotely, skill or gear wise.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

When you see that a sin can kill a 14k hp (unbuffed) bm that is 100 skilled (1000% pdef) in < 4 seconds without even sparking (check my vid cheze vs NyKage).. you get the idea that nothing will save you from a sin. Besides my personal experience that tell me that there is no chance against a good sin, I see r9 wizards get totally destroyed by sins pretty regularly.

Everyone in the wizard community (and almost everyone in pwi) knows that sins are disgustingly OP, I'm just curious why its taking you this long to come to the same conclusion. Low IQ? No experience? Who knows.. and I really don't care what it is.. but if you can't figure out something that simple, you really aren't going to have much to offer anyway. Cya.

Can you post this video again pls? I don't want to look it for in all thread.

Adroit - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Can you post this video again pls? I don't want to look it for in all thread.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=982272

I've got 3 vids of me and 4 vids of other people 1v1ing atm, should be adding another one of me soon (when I catch up on homework >.>)

MageFizban - Lost City

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

I said "even if" and no they were not noob sins that I fought but neither were they r9. Furthermore im on a PvP server so it is almost never 1v1. I would expect someone with r9 weapon +anything to rip through me duh but I would also expect a r9 wiz to be able to handle a r9 sin so lemme ask all of you who been replying: which of you is a r9 wiz?

I've seen a (+10) full r9 (+12 wep) wiz be torn apart like paper by a sin with 1st cast nv daggers. There goes your argument.

AND with sins, it's usually 1v1 and when you're least expecting it. Unless they're super lame/fail and hunt in packs like they sometimes do. I swear, they're the only class that does that.

Don't be a b:shutup and leave the forums now. You're like the only demon wiz here. Who else can we troll?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=982272

I've got 3 vids of me and 4 vids of other people 1v1ing atm, should be adding another one of me soon (when I catch up on homework >.>)

ty.b:thanks
Haa ha I already see how Ruxal killing this sin. :-))))

Hudini - Heavens Tear

Korrok - Harshlands wrote: »

It's cause he's on Harshlands. Sins here aren't even close to the same level as Cheze. Not even remotely, skill or gear wise.

gear doesnt get much better then joppe or vipers tbh.

your just a moron.

yes a sin heavily geared can solo a r9, but they are a one and done deal.

btw is that bm even 5 aps sparked?

Adroit - Lost City

Hudini - Heavens Tear wrote: »

gear doesnt get much better then joppe or vipers tbh.

your just a moron.

yes a sin heavily geared can solo a r9, but they are a one and done deal.

btw is that bm even 5 aps sparked?

one and done? Please explain And the bm is sage (you know from the sage fairy and the sage chi skill etc), so sparking doesn't increase aps lol

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Hudini - Heavens Tear wrote: »

gear doesnt get much better then joppe or vipers tbh.

your just a moron.

yes a sin heavily geared can solo a r9, but they are a one and done deal.

btw is that bm even 5 aps sparked?

does you has a brain? A sin is One and Done?
oh lol.
Does it matter if it's sparked or not? did u see him spark a lot? Do you ever went through the sin's skill tree to see what skills a sin has (yeah, everyone knows about BP). Well, go read, you might find a lot of interesting stuff about skills that gives you a 2nd life for free, about skills that make you avoid attacks or make incoming attks do 1 dmg, self purify, dmg amp, crit buffs, attk lvl increase, movement debuff protection and so on. Interesting lecture if I might say so, very well deserved the time spent on it.

Hudini - Heavens Tear

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

one and done? Please explain And the bm is sage (you know from the sage fairy and the sage chi skill etc), so sparking doesn't increase aps lol

sorry didn't pay that much attention, i was like laptop lecture laptop lecture laptop, if he was a demon would he be 5 aps, how is that?

As for the comment on sins being one and done from a TW perspective a sin will come out kill a person and then be mercilessly *****, which is great for a target that is worth it. Obviously a sin can 1v1 most classes, I think even a carebear would understand that. As for my wise little carebear talking about sin skill trees, I am well aware of DN, it has saved many a sin from my wrath, are you aware that it has a long CD and just means you have to hit them again?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

again? when? when in stealth?
chill Hudini, this trick is just not working, maybe cause you're missing a "o"?

Hudini - Harshlands

o and here i changed my avatar for you. yea i made a 90 wizard before oracles or packs came out....and this one was 90 before packs and bhs.

Hudini - Harshlands

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

again? when? when in stealth?
chill Hudini, this trick is just not working, maybe cause you're missing a "o"?

carebear wants to talk pvp

i think Houdini looks kinda lame.

Adroit - Lost City

Hudini - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sorry didn't pay that much attention, i was like laptop lecture laptop lecture laptop, if he was a demon would he be 5 aps, how is that?

As for the comment on sins being one and done from a TW perspective a sin will come out kill a person and then be mercilessly *****, which is great for a target that is worth it. Obviously a sin can 1v1 most classes, I think even a carebear would understand that. As for my wise little carebear talking about sin skill trees, I am well aware of DN, it has saved many a sin from my wrath, are you aware that it has a long CD and just means you have to hit them again?

he is 3.33 base, so he is usually at 4.0 when he glitches cyclone. His fists are +11 2nd cast nv with -int and berzerk (not zerk obv) and some other stat.

You have obviously not seen a good sin in TW. I'll make sure to add in some sins in TW in my next vid

Hudini - Harshlands

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

he is 3.33 base, so he is usually at 4.0 when he glitches cyclone. His fists are +11 2nd cast nv with -int and berzerk (not zerk obv) and some other stat.

You have obviously not seen a good sin in TW. I'll make sure to add in some sins in TW in my next vid

I have, some of the best, but why does everything go to the best geared possible?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

carebear wants to talk pvp

i think Houdini looks kinda lame.

yeah, you know, that sin in that vid was a carebear. That statement just show the lvl of ignorance you're up to. Take your PvP server and shove it where sun doesn't shine, I don't have enough fingers to name all the ppl that if they rolled a char on your awesome PvP server you won't be able to step outside of SZ.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

have I mentioned that i love Ursa's posts and signature? XD

Adroit - Lost City

Hudini - Harshlands wrote: »

I have, some of the best, but why does everything go to the best geared possible?

its not all about gear, and your comments suggest that you haven't seen a good sin in TW.

BTW.. I Ursa

Korrok - Harshlands

Hudini - Heavens Tear wrote: »

gear doesnt get much better then joppe or vipers tbh.

your just a moron.

yes a sin heavily geared can solo a r9, but they are a one and done deal.

btw is that bm even 5 aps sparked?

Cheze's gear is on par, if not better than theirs and he's obviously extremely good at his class. I'd say better than Viper and Joppe even, though I've never seen them really 1v1 a good player.

I'm just saying, there's no one on par with Cheze's skill/gear mix on harshlands, since everything on HL boils down to "lolololol we haz 15 more ppl here dan u y u so nub QQmoar"

Hudini - Harshlands

Korrok - Harshlands wrote: »

Cheze's gear is on par, if not better than theirs and he's obviously extremely good at his class. I'd say better than Viper and Joppe even, though I've never seen them really 1v1 a good player.

I'm just saying, there's no one on par with Cheze's skill/gear mix on harshlands, since everything on HL boils down to "lolololol we haz 15 more ppl here dan u y u so nub QQmoar"

you are a moron. He doesnt have a video of them so they arent as good? They can solo any rank 9 +12 on the server, but like you said your completely ignorant yet make stupid statements. Im not taking away form cheze, he looked pro, if there's such a thing on a sin.

Ursa, you dont know **** about pvp, I rolled HT first, the level of skill difference involved is so drastic its not funny.