No more Pay2Win ?

Bellarie - Raging Tide

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This game is F2P and has always been so.

The difference is that it used to be easier to reach endgame without spending a lot of money. Kita also stated that they'd been played for at least two years on this game, so they already had a good foothold of alts to farm on, and money.

F2P from start to end right now? I'm doubting it's possible. Those people who run around shrieking "I'M 100% F2P LOOK AT ME I DISPROVE YOUR CONSPIRACY CS THEORIES" actually don't tend to mention that they had months upon months of saved money, farmed gear and alts. They are F2P, and that I'm not denying, but I can almost guarantee you that every single one of these players was around months before RT came out and this whole pack and desperate sales **** started. They might be 100% F2P but they're not about to openly admit how much money, gear and shards they may have already saved up before this started, because then it wouldn't make them look as good as they reckon it does.

Not a single one of them will also start a brand new character on a brand new server they haven't played before right now to try and actually prove their theories. Not that they'll admit this, either. Oh, they'll all scream about how free to play this game apparently is, but challenge them to actually play this game in the exact same way a new F2P player would, with no alts, no previous savings and no anything and they won't ****ing do it. They'll wimp out with bull**** excuses about how they shouldn't have to or how it won't prove anything because deep down every single one of them actually knows how futile f2p from scratch actually is.

They just won't admit it because that would make them look stupid and hypocritical.

This. I'd like to see the likes of tweakz get off his/her *** and actually do what you suggest. Start a fresh new character on a new server, and non-CS their way up there. Without alts, without 5aps, and without merchanting. Grinding, farming, and questing only. Prove that this is possible.

You have a very good point: This game is in theory, possible to do completely f2p, but in practice, it became virtually impossible over the past year or so. Merchanting defeats the purpose of f2p in practice, because I highly doubt this game originally intended for people to sit around merchanting in catshop sometimes until maintenence boots them. Kita has two characters with r9, which amounts to at least 600K reputation. While some of that surely was obtained through quests, tabs, stamp drops, etc. The likelihood of getting that much rep without CSing is virtually nonexistent, at least with the way the game is now. Of course, you could technically grind the dq mats needed for the rep badges, but assuming each of Kita's two r9 chars obtained 10K rep from questing/stamp drops, that would still require 23,200 rep badges to achieve the 600K total between the two characters. In addition to the medals/chips, as well as all of the inevitable ingame costs along the way(pots, charms, repairs, etc).

Bellarie - Raging Tide

Tearle - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why would you need 3 assassins... I can sort of understand two I guess, if you want both paths, but why three?

likely that third sin is for 5aps purposes, that way the other two sins don't need to restat for fists.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh, they'll all scream about how free to play this game apparently is, but challenge them to actually play this game in the exact same way a new F2P player would, with no alts, no previous savings and no anything and they won't ****ing do it. They'll wimp out with bull**** excuses about how they shouldn't have to or how it won't prove anything because deep down every single one of them actually knows how futile f2p from scratch actually is.

They just won't admit it because that would make them look stupid and hypocritical.

Either that, or we just know better.

We keep being told about how what we do doesn't work anymore.

We keep being told we're liars.

But then we're challenged to prove ourselves. What, to people who will just turn around and tell us, "yeah, but that was 2 months ago, and besides, you're a liar, so you've proved nothing"?

Yeah, I'll pass.

Regenbogen - Lost City

Tearle - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why would you need 3 assassins... I can sort of understand two I guess, if you want both paths, but why three?

full nv squad

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not a single one of them will also start a brand new character on a brand new server they haven't played before right now to try and actually prove their theories.

Your claim, here, shows that you have not been paying attention.

First, yes: having a long history in the game gives you advantages. Some of the biggest advantages go to people that played other versions before this one, because of the whole "information is power" thing. But having a high level character helps and yes, having a stock of various useful supplies helps.

However, no one can "prove" anything, when addressing an audience that refuses all proof. So in a sense your basic assertion is true -- its just that the rest of it does not mean anything if that was your meaning.

But the thing that shows you have not been paying attention... no, I will not tell you. Instead, let us see how the conversation goes with me spouting stuff you must think is nonsense and fail?

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

I dare say that part in the interview was a rather pathetic attempt at trying to make this game look... not so geared to the "pay to win" aspect that so many people are sick of it, and leave.

Getting to 105 without paying a single dime of real cash should 100% definitely be very possible, hypers were made fairly cheap thanks to all the constant rebirths of the packs in their various forms. (400k for 5 hypers/40 tokens) Then after that, just figure out when/how long you can spend in game, fcing/figuring the best way to maximize experience)

That part actually seems pretty damn plausible to do without paying to play, besides since when does level make you win?

As for her gears, I just recently became a merchant, and I gotta say after spending 1500 gold (buying d orb packs, and reselling the orbs, [for the record it was in game cash I spent, not real life money, but still... ffs... 1500 gold... @ like 800k-1m at the time... is hard to fathom even to me... as to why I didn't even get one d orb flame]) and not getting a single d orb flame to sell... I think it would have been far simpler to just take the money I made and ran with it to 105, sure it would have taken a little bit of time, but should still be far faster getting that goal, then getting the goal of some great gear without cash shopping. (I am not saying it's impossible to farm gear/merchant for 5.0/rank 8/9, but their are a lot of intangibles on that road far easier to just pay for it with real cash) =x

Okeano - Harshlands

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

F2P from start to end right now? I'm doubting it's possible. Those people who run around shrieking "I'M 100% F2P LOOK AT ME I DISPROVE YOUR CONSPIRACY CS THEORIES" actually don't tend to mention that they had months upon months of saved money, farmed gear and alts. They are F2P, and that I'm not denying, but I can almost guarantee you that every single one of these players was around months before RT came out and this whole pack and desperate sales **** started. They might be 100% F2P but they're not about to openly admit how much money, gear and shards they may have already saved up before this started, because then it wouldn't make them look as good as they reckon it does.

Not a single one of them will also start a brand new character on a brand new server they haven't played before right now to try and actually prove their theories. Not that they'll admit this, either. Oh, they'll all scream about how free to play this game apparently is, but challenge them to actually play this game in the exact same way a new F2P player would, with no alts, no previous savings and no anything and they won't ****ing do it. They'll wimp out with bull**** excuses about how they shouldn't have to or how it won't prove anything because deep down every single one of them actually knows how futile f2p from scratch actually is.

They just won't admit it because that would make them look stupid and hypocritical.

I started over on HL around mid-Jan, after RT came out. I had no saved up TT mats, 0 coins, no farming alts, now I have billions in gears, coins, and merchanting goods. I had to start out by selling teles, fashions, wines, one piece at a time. It didn't happen over night. No one say it doesn't take time to build up, but it's completely do-able. There was never but one time where I actually have to farm to have coins to spend. That one time I believe all my coins were in battle packs and I literally didn't have enough coins to tele. Other than that, I never had to constantly farm/grind for money once I had a base fund for merchant. Wifey and I tele'ed everywhere, had good flyers, 8 mil worth bracers by 60 and etc.

I believe WarrenWolfy started an alt on LC just to see how he'll do with merchanting and it has a few hundred golds and he barely plays it. Again, you don't have to believe what he or I said. Less people merchanting = more profits for merchants.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

That would make sense it we were talking about pimping 1 character. Cause nirvanas back then cost well over 700M excluding the weapon and shards. (even if u run your own you still need to split among your pals)
person in question got:
-Lv105 Demon Rank8/9 Assassin
-Lv102 Sage Rank9 Assassin
-Lv102 Demon Veno
-Lv101 Sage Cleric (Full Light of Nirvana)
-Lv101 Sage Barbarian (Soon full Shadow of Nirvana)
-Lv9x Sage Psychic
-Lv9x Demon Assassin

of course refined and sharded.
I think the pple just wanna know if this person started selling DQs or something for their 5 billion+ coinage lol

And kit didn't CS? Yeah, I call bull****. That, or they literally don't sleep. At all.

Ruxal - Harshlands

7 Pages of responses that do nothing other than show jealousy.

If this promotion is able to bring new players to the game then power to it.

As for the lvl 105 sin, congrats on your accomplishment.

To PWI developers: Your love child (assassins) now dominate the server. Throw a wiz a bone pls b:victory.

LShattered - Heavens Tear

Bellarie - Raging Tide wrote: »

This. I'd like to see the likes of tweakz get off his/her *** and actually do what you suggest. Start a fresh new character on a new server, and non-CS their way up there. Without alts, without 5aps, and without merchanting. Grinding, farming, and questing only. Prove that this is possible.

You have a very good point: This game is in theory, possible to do completely f2p, but in practice, it became virtually impossible over the past year or so. Merchanting defeats the purpose of f2p in practice, because I highly doubt this game originally intended for people to sit around merchanting in catshop sometimes until maintenence boots them. Kita has two characters with r9, which amounts to at least 600K reputation. While some of that surely was obtained through quests, tabs, stamp drops, etc. The likelihood of getting that much rep without CSing is virtually nonexistent, at least with the way the game is now. Of course, you could technically grind the dq mats needed for the rep badges, but assuming each of Kita's two r9 chars obtained 10K rep from questing/stamp drops, that would still require 23,200 rep badges to achieve the 600K total between the two characters. In addition to the medals/chips, as well as all of the inevitable ingame costs along the way(pots, charms, repairs, etc).

You really do have a strange fetish for bringing up tweakz, don't you?

Jenovadeath - Lost City

Take this into consideration before everyone says oh its quite possible. It is possible it realy is but there were alot and I mean alot of ppl that played this game like it was the thing to do for more than two years. Before Bh it was RB and 3rd map aoe grinding that helped everyone go from 92-93 too 98-99 after bh things got way easier then they added frost in to the mix which became the csers play ground with hypers.

This to my understanding is still the pretty much best way to lvl and gain large amounts of xp% at the higher lvls I'm just saying however A class thats only been out a year and a month or two now hitting the max lvl cap without cash shopping is complete and utter bs especially with the other players that were already at 100+ before that expansion ever hit this version of pw.

Its just nonsence go to any popular mmo site that reviews and links downloads for mass amounts of f2p p2p and p2w mmos and almost all of pwis reveiws talks about how cash shop oriented this version is and how much alot of ppl have spent just to be the best especailly on the pvp servers. I think the mmo awards were kinda **** theres no way that the pos mmofps that won was the acuall winnner I played it and its basically a duke nukem clone mmo style for the most part.

Just saying however theres no way they did it with out cash shopping wether it was an alt of someones main that cash shopped alot or anything. I know alot of farming can be done but to get to that point to be able to get a regular static farming group takes alot in todays gear to be able to get into squad with some classes.

Jenovadeath - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dare say that part in the interview was a rather pathetic attempt at trying to make this game look... not so geared to the "pay to win" aspect that so many people are sick of it, and leave.

Getting to 105 without paying a single dime of real cash should 100% definitely be very possible, hypers were made fairly cheap thanks to all the constant rebirths of the packs in their various forms. (400k for 5 hypers/40 tokens) Then after that, just figure out when/how long you can spend in game, fcing/figuring the best way to maximize experience)

That part actually seems pretty damn plausible to do without paying to play, besides since when does level make you win?

As for her gears, I just recently became a merchant, and I gotta say after spending 1500 gold (buying d orb packs, and reselling the orbs, [for the record it was in game cash I spent, not real life money, but still... ffs... 1500 gold... @ like 800k-1m at the time... is hard to fathom even to me... as to why I didn't even get one d orb flame]) and not getting a single d orb flame to sell... I think it would have been far simpler to just take the money I made and ran with it to 105, sure it would have taken a little bit of time, but should still be far faster getting that goal, then getting the goal of some great gear without cash shopping. (I am not saying it's impossible to farm gear/merchant for 5.0/rank 8/9, but their are a lot of intangibles on that road far easier to just pay for it with real cash) =x

LMAO I'm srry but wow the bolded says it all for this and you just became a merchant yet you had nearly 1.5 bil to spend on gold for dorb packs. FoS FFS

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Lets put it this way, it was only possible because of the gms spamming cash shop items.
Ex. Packs--->hypers,crab meat,charms,etc

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Jenovadeath - Lost City wrote: »

LMAO I'm srry but wow the bolded says it all for this and you just became a merchant yet you had nearly 1.5 bil to spend on gold for dorb packs. FoS FFS

That was over the full period of the month that it was on sale for 30 silver. It wasn't just one day. =x I realize people have done similar but that for me... pisses me off, annoying to spend that much gold (especially over a small period of time) and have nothing to really show for it. ;/


Also for the record, I am not interested in 105, and I do believe I already said grats to kita on another thread, but honestly it's hard for me to grasp the kind of accomplishment it is, when I myself am not interested in getting there/feel it's hollow with how cheap hypers have become. =x

ugysekell

I only spent 20 dollars on this game back in 2009 when gold was only 300k lol so I didn't get too much coins for it... Well, I got a mount and some gear. I saved up for my Herc ingame (took me 3 months) and I can farm enough money with it + Nirvana helps a lot. I don't have epic gear like R8 but I don't PVP so I don't care and the stuff I have (TT) is more than enough to survive PVE. So it depends what you do, if you want to win in PVP you will have to spend real money, but PVE can be enjoyable for free. Cheers! (:

Okeano - Harshlands

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

To PWI developers: Your love child (assassins) now dominate the server. Throw a wiz a bone pls b:victory.

They already gave you R8 for 1/10 of its original price. Now go chew that in a corner while we big boys run Nirvana.