I've seen a few archers using fist weapons....

Ignathas - Sanctuary · January 2011

let the pros talk
<--- pro

anyway i had 5 aps archer and now i got 3.33 aps sin, archer pure bow again..
but.. lol.. honestly so far with my 3.33 aps i can steal even keep agro from endgame 5aps bms, i even could steal agro for sometime from striking dragon +12 O,O and my max dmg is higher.. minimal dmg is way lower tho.. well i hit like 42k crits, got demon wolf emblem wich is 40% crit dmg and demon dagger devotion. and my rank 8 daggers are only +4, with immac or even flawless garnets in it b:shutup
can an archer or bm hit 42k in nirvanas O,o with +12 wep maybe.. so i say f.. aps :>
on my archer i dont remmember how much i hit but maybe like 10k tops with deicides.. maybe, dont even think i did.. either way archers/bms are the same, bms only have hf and more defence, archers have more crits.. speaking of crits.. archer like 35% sin is 37%, so sin has even more crit, and with daggers the dmg is close to insane..
another thing - epic -fail fist/claw sins = i mean wth is that :> they loose dmg cos theyre dex, alot, they loose crit cos they have to put points in str, fists initial dmg is lower, either way deicide sin is as pathetic of a dd as archer

and btw 3.33 sin also has perma spark cos of sin skills >.> and has subsea strike wich is better then extreme poison, also cuthroat but w.e.. and has bp so easier to tank.. anyways i put barb/bm/archer in same category, and sin as best dds with no equal >,.,<
as for the archer - there is None better for a tw, i mean just pure evil sniping everyone and noone can do nothing about it :P it also has cute elf ears and looks good in general..
well i like those 2 classes and they have different roles in this game in my oppinion and i got those 2 cos i like them, and generally it all depends on who like what and goals in game..
if 100% sure wont do sin for a dd, then ye using claws/fists can be an alternative for archer for instance runs, but archers in my oppinion are created for tw/pvp not for farming, cos there are classes better suited for that

Clandore - Lost City · January 2011

Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »

:P it also has cute elf ears and looks good in general..

QFT - fish just look creepy

Ignathas - Sanctuary · January 2011

Clandore - Lost City wrote: »

QFT - fish just look creepy

as for the archer - there is None better for a tw, i mean just pure evil sniping everyone and noone can do nothing about it :P it also has cute elf ears and looks good in general..

Sereneai - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

But the Assassin gets Wolf Emblem. Too lazy to do the math though.

not if we're using fists, we don't. the only way to use wolf with fists is to carry a dagger to cast it, then swap to fists as we attack.

OFC, i do that with a bow already b:surrender

Galliteya - Heavens Tear · January 2011

I love using a bow heehee. Archer is 24 now and I'm using the crossbow from fb19 with 2 phys attack gems socketed. I'm kicking butt..and what I like is I'm standing away from them. Answer me this if you would pweaseb:cute. Is frost arrow+Normal+Normal+Knockback a good combo or is there something better? I've been using vicious arrow alot but I think I'm waisting mana by using it as the mob dies the arrow is still ticking away.

And I'm using the aim skill which is rank 4. I think I waisted spirit leveling it as I use it for chi only. I don't let it charge ><. I will use fists if I can find a good one and when I'm able to spark. But I will still trust my bow better. That's why they call us archer's right? We're not fistchers b:laugh.

I think the guide is a bit outdated but I'm still trying to follow it closely. I've kept my frost arrow and blaze arrow leveled. Do I want to level knock back or just keep it at level 1?

Why didn't knock back work on my fb19? I fired it and they kept on coming at me

. b:cute

Fleuri - Sanctuary · January 2011

Galliteya - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why didn't knock back work on my fb19? I fired it and they kept on coming at me . b:cute

Some monsters are immune to knockback. Most monsters in FB places have that immunity. The only way I know to find out which monsters are immune is to try it on them.

Mooy - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »

as for the archer - there is None better for a tw, i mean just pure evil sniping everyone and noone can do nothing about it :P it also has cute elf ears and looks good in general..

I can't see much different between elf ears and normal ears...or maybe because the ears got covered by my hair.

ColdAsLife - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Galliteya - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why? Why not make a fist bm. Archer's won't get any skills to use with those fist weapons. Will they? b:cute

Because :

Claws with -0.5 int. for level 76 are outdamaging Bow of Demonhunter ( Rank 8 bow ). I have a lvl 101 archer friend and he prefers to use his claws instead of his bow on bosses. Why ? Because on the short run ( a mob ) the bow will be the better choice - range, high damage, the mob has low hp, quickly dead mob. But, on the long run ( on bosses ) the bow is being outdamaged because of the low APS and the inability to stay perma sparked.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

Fists allow you to do crazy **** like out DPS +12 bows with +5 fists at a stationary target over an extended period of time...lol

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear · January 2011

R9 Wiz > 5.0 R8 sin b:chuckle

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fists allow you to do crazy **** like out DPS +12 bows with +5 fists at a stationary target over an extended period of time...lol

Really now... someone should probably go tell those +10 perma spark claws that they should be holding aggro from me.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

What is your base damage and attack level? What is your base damage Triple Sparked? You really think you can match claw users' DPS over an extended period of time?

Your boss dies in less than 30s with other high DDs, that is probably why you have aggro initially. Fight a bigger target, like a world boss, and the claw users will gain back aggro.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear · January 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is your base damage and attack level? What is your base damage Triple Sparked? You really think you can match claw users' DPS over an extended period of time?

Your boss dies in less than 30s with other high DDs, that is probably why you have aggro initially. Fight a bigger target, like a world boss, and the claw users will gain back aggro.

If by “extended period of time” you mean hours and hours… for which I already fallen asleep and stop attacking. I would have to agree with you. I have tanked enough instance and world bosses to know I can hold majority aggro over perma spark users... short of a few seconds affected by any aggro skill. Boss in my world should not last more then 5-10 minutes. So sure… lets say a run of the mill claw user can out damage me in the 11th minute… but then I have no intention of getting myself involved in such a squad.

EDIT: Base dmage is more of less the same for all archers using the same weapon. My may be slightly higher as I am probably the last pure dex archer with a decent weapon.

Ignathas - Sanctuary · January 2011

Mooy - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can't see much different between elf ears and normal ears...or maybe because the ears got covered by my hair.

lucky you.. im bald b:surrender

Zhadi - Archosaur · January 2011

:< messed up. read next post.

Zhadi - Archosaur · January 2011

pure archer here.
and yes, I have to agree with Kiyoshi.
Unless the person has 5 aps with +10 or higher, it's kinda hard for them to keep aggro from me still. During celestial tiger event, I'm the only bow user during bosses and I always manage to rack up enough points to stay up in the top 5.
Usually a boss will only last for 2 of my sparks if that..
triple spark + cloud eruption + triple spark again = perma spark for the duration of the boss.
World bosses... tanked plenty of them with 5 aps'ers DD'ing.
Just because a lot of people fail to use an archer's bow to it's max potential, does not mean it sucks. Learn to play.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

@Kiyoshi

Is this before R9 or after? Ast had about 35k average base triple sparked with a +12 Jaden, and I had about 7k triple sparked with +5 claws, but attacking at 5/s.

I grabbed aggro after a period of time simply because I could keep myself sparked continuously and because I could spam Frenzy. I don't see how +10 claws would lose to anything except R9's attack level bonus.

Ignathas - Sanctuary · January 2011

was qq' ing in the very same forums about how archers are better dds then clawchers, until i restatted to claws, and ofc after i got 4-5 aps that was not even a discussion..
of course 3+ aps archer is way better DD to bosses and immobile mobs then archer with similar grade weapon but ranged..

well, then i tried sin for a dd... b:pleased

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

Really I'd like to just level up a sin for PvE clawing purposes and restat myself to pure dex too

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · January 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

@Kiyoshi

Is this before R9 or after? Ast had about 35k average base triple sparked with a +12 Jaden, and I had about 7k triple sparked with +5 claws, but attacking at 5/s.

I grabbed aggro after a period of time simply because I could keep myself sparked continuously and because I could spam Frenzy. I don't see how +10 claws would lose to anything except R9's attack level bonus.

Qui my sparked bow did more dps than your sparked +5 claws but my unsparked bow only does like half the dps and you cant permaspark with bows. My +12 R9 bow does around same dps sparked as +10 lunar claws but again theres no permaspark there.

If you are using a genie to feed chi to a bow you can't use that genie for frenzy like you can for claws... In the last tiger event I know a +10 R9 bow was able to get 6k contribution on the same boss that my +10 claws were able to get 9.5k contribution.

And qui if you want moar dex why don't you go level more? Do your cube!

Ignathas - Sanctuary · February 2011

small correction
DPS = Damage Per Second
bows will never have more dps then claws, unless fail clawcher, for bow its like 1.5 DPS max, for claws its normally 5DPS meaning if you want to outdmg a clawcher ur
DPH = Damage Per HP must be 3.33 higher then the DPH of a claw user, normally 5 times higher.. that is possible maybe in tts, cos they got less defence, but impossible in nirvanas..
More defence = claws better, less defence = bows Could be better depend on a bows.. in those tiger or nien beast events those bosses have like 0 defence, so max hits can be way better then max hits vs bosses with high physical def

Kaste - Sanctuary · February 2011

Btw, I seen Archer with high APS sparked while wielding these:

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/8286

Now imagine these:

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/8285 b:shockedb:shocked

Not that I would support Archer using melee weapons, but that seems to be. .badass.
PWcalc time!

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f75afc149a85dc13. . .why not?

XyewX - Archosaur · February 2011

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fists and claws, I think, were designed with archers in mind.

Actually i think they were made for bm's because of the fact the bm's have actual fist skills 100% designed for fists/claws

Fleuri - Sanctuary · February 2011

XyewX - Archosaur wrote: »

Actually i think they were made for bm's because of the fact the bm's have actual fist skills 100% designed for fists/claws

Yes, made for blademasters, with archers in mind.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · February 2011

XyewX - Archosaur wrote: »

Actually i think they were made for bm's because of the fact the bm's have actual fist skills 100% designed for fists/claws

BMs almost never use skills with fists lol. They just demon spark -> auto attack like the other classes.

Fleuri - Sanctuary · February 2011

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

BMs almost never use skills with fists lol. They just demon spark -> auto attack like the other classes.

This got me to wondering, so I looked up the blademaster fist skills:

Vacuous Palm -- an anti-kiting skill, does not work on bosses, usually costs 1 spark
Shadowless Kick -- interrupt
Cyclone Heel -- partially compensate for lack of demon spark, and help build chi
Drake's Breath Bash -- maybe aggro an add (probably needs skill and no lag), partially compensate for lack of blazing arrow, costs 2 sparks

All of those skills seem to be very situational, and almost never useful in nirvana (except cyclone heel, when opening combat and low on chi).

So, anyways, I can totally imagine people using them, and I can totally imagine people not using them.

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

People cast cancel DBB by switching weapons so it does not take the 2 sparks but gives the fire buff. Sins can also cast cancel Power Dash so it gives the crit buff without using the 2 sparks. That's where it is useful

ZilCaVanz - Lost City · February 2011

lol i use nv 1st cast claw +10

im still pure dex,i use str neck/belt/ring/helm while using claws

got 515 dex with bow gear lol.

I've seen a few archers using fist weapons....

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