I've seen a few archers using fist weapons....

Galliteya - Heavens Tear

Why? Why not make a fist bm. Archer's won't get any skills to use with those fist weapons. Will they? b:cute

Alkaia - Harshlands

Nowadays you can see barbs using fist.
Everybody just looking to get more aps, booring aint it?

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

When an Archer gains enough APS (Attacks Per Second), they're capable of outdamaging their bows. Even without skills, their DPS is more than enough...This is compounded by the massive amount of chi gained from those attacks, which leads to perma-sparking.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Fists and claws, I think, were designed with archers in mind.

Of all the melee weapons, they have the highest dexterity requirements and the lowest strength requirements.

And our bows, crossbows and slingshots do half damage up close. So, for fists to be effective up close the can even do worse damage per second than our regular weapons would do if we were ranged.

And our rank gear gives us -interval which is especially on fists and claws.

And, finallly, we a handfull of skills we can use when we have fists equipped, including our melee range knockback skill, and of course including sparks. (And, yes, we could also use earthquake, but wingspan works underwater and in the air.)

(Our melee skills do higher damage with a bow than with claws, but they do work with claws -- they probably even work with axes.)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

I chose archer specifically because I liked the combination of fists and bow. It's nice to be able to choose when to be ranged and when to fight up close. It is, silly, however, to take the fist thing one step further and go HA in order to increase defenses (i.e. phys def, +HP), or never use a bow. In that case, roll a BM. There's no point playing an archer if you don't use a bow at least a substantial amount.

Ignathas - Sanctuary

made a sin lvl 100 in a month, invested alot but deals way more dmg, archer pure bow again b:victory

Galliteya - Heavens Tear

Well I guess you decided for this girl heehee. I'll stick with archer! b:laughb:cute

LShattered - Heavens Tear

Galliteya - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well I guess you decided for this girl heehee. I'll stick with archer! b:laughb:cute

Archers are a lot of fun stick with it and you could become mega prob:chuckle

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There's no point playing an archer if you don't use a bow at least a substantial amount.

This.

Galliteya, don't roll an archer just to use fists. Despite everything that's been said so far in this thread, a fist BM will far outdamage a fist archer of the same APS. The single advantage of archers over BMs in this field is that archers can get a rank chestplate with a -int bonus on it, making the broken "5.0" slightly more attainable for archers - but this only matters if you're making a sage archer and plan to spend a lot of time/money on it, and then you'd still be better off making a 5.0 demon BM.

My advice? Make a BM, make him/her demon, then make him/her a 5.0 character if you really want to (but I advise against it, because 5.0 is pretty damn broken). Then make an archer and just enjoy killing things with a bow. :P

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Blade archer or gtfo.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I chose archer specifically because I liked the combination of fists and bow. It's nice to be able to choose when to be ranged and when to fight up close. It is, silly, however, to take the fist thing one step further and go HA in order to increase defenses (i.e. phys def, +HP), or never use a bow. In that case, roll a BM. There's no point playing an archer if you don't use a bow at least a substantial amount.

i can do that with my sin

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

i can do that with my sin

But sins are fish....

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

But sins are fish....

i love fish only if its fried or boiled though.

TigerLily - Lost City

I've seen a few archers using fist weapons to...

They use Dark Flash +0 and thinks its god mode for 95+ Frost. That really pisses me of lol. I mean a lvl 60 Magmite will do more dmg.

For fists/claws to be effective for archers you need at least like 2.86 - 3.33 sparked. Doesn't matter that you dont have any fists skills, you only triple spark and auto attack anyway. BMs dont use fists skills either in pve, beside the occasional Cyclone Heal if their macro stops b:chuckle

All archers main weapons is bow, there is no such thing as "fist archers" really. Equipping fists/claws is something archers have to do for single target dps inside certain instances.

And the "BMs deals so much more dmg" is highly exaggerated imo. I have a 100+ BM to and she deals maybe 15% more dmg permasparked than my archer. Its really only assassins that heavily out-dps any other 5.0 class.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

I've seen a few archers using fist weapons to...

They use Dark Flash +0 and thinks its god mode for 95+ Frost. That really pisses me of lol. I mean a lvl 60 Magmite will do more dmg.

For fists/claws to be effective for archers you need at least like 2.86 - 3.33 sparked. Doesn't matter that you dont have any fists skills, you only triple spark and auto attack anyway. BMs dont use fists skills either in pve, beside the occasional Cyclone Heal if their macro stops b:chuckle

All archers main weapons is bow, there is no such thing as "fist archers" really. Equipping fists/claws is something archers have to do for single target dps inside certain instances.

And the "BMs deals so much more dmg" is highly exaggerated imo. I have a 100+ BM to and she deals maybe 15% more dmg permasparked than my archer. Its really only assassins that heavily out-dps any other 5.0 class.

+1
when archers come in my fc squad they use fist/calw on boss either dark flash or anhilator of souls and its not even refined or sharded and that would be okey IF they had more aps but most only have the rank top that gives -5 im like put ur bow on u deal more dmg which makes the boss go faster

Brigid - Harshlands

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

+1
when archers come in my fc squad they use fist/calw on boss either dark flash or anhilator of souls and its not even refined or sharded and that would be okey IF they had more aps but most only have the rank top that gives -5 im like put ur bow on u deal more dmg which makes the boss go faster

Hey now, me and my [Instant Strike Fist] do plenty of damage. But yeah, you really do need more than just rank top. I think mine only slightly outdamages my bow, and I'm at 2.5 sparked (-0.20 total).

Also, there's a situational aspect as well. On Asoteric Runewolf, for example, the last thing you want to do is use fists. You'll spend half your time running away from his AOE. On Dreadindra though, using fists may make things easier when dealing with bishops, assuming you aren't sacrificing too much damage to do it. And finally on full runs, using fists and triple sparking to purify the attack speed debuff results in much higher overall damage than shooting at 0.5/sec.

Mourey__ - Dreamweaver

Fist archer is a great idea, becousse 5aps is like 200mil cheaper than for assassin or blademaster. Also you must know damage is little lower, but with good refine of weapon and level 11 blazing arrow, you can kick ***. Well it's still good to make a sin or bm later, transfear get and 5aps here, after you get enough money on archer for the missing parts.

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Mourey__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fist archer is a great idea, becousse 5aps is like 200mil cheaper than for assassin or blademaster

5.0 sins out DPS 5aps archer by alot.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

i can do that with my sin

With one target. Kinda overlooking the part that gets archers into RB over sins.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

Mourey__ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fist archer is a great idea, becousse 5aps is like 200mil cheaper than for assassin or blademaster. Also you must know damage is little lower, but with good refine of weapon and level 11 blazing arrow, you can kick ***. Well it's still good to make a sin or bm later, transfear get and 5aps here, after you get enough money on archer for the missing parts.

im confused how is it cheaper?

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Hey now, me and my [Instant Strike Fist] do plenty of damage. But yeah, you really do need more than just rank top. I think mine only slightly outdamages my bow, and I'm at 2.5 sparked (-0.20 total).

Also, there's a situational aspect as well. On Asoteric Runewolf, for example, the last thing you want to do is use fists. You'll spend half your time running away from his AOE. On Dreadindra though, using fists may make things easier when dealing with bishops, assuming you aren't sacrificing too much damage to do it. And finally on full runs, using fists and triple sparking to purify the attack speed debuff results in much higher overall damage than shooting at 0.5/sec.

THIS ERKS ME THE MOST THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I KICK ARCHERS FROM SQUAD like really
/facepalm
how stupid can you be i told them u shud use bow on this bow its alot better than running away and i got the answer "no i use fist cause chi faster=sparking=better dmg="

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide

Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »

im confused how is it cheaper?

BM hasn't got easy chest interval piece, and sins with daggers are 0.1 behind fists.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

Boogiepanda - Raging Tide wrote: »

BM hasn't got easy chest interval piece, and sins with daggers are 0.1 behind fists.

ya i know about the bm but sin can use claws/fist too...

Elviron - Dreamweaver

5.0 APS Setup for an Archer

---

1.) Cultivation : Demon
2.) 2x TT99 LA pieces (boots + bracers would be ideal since the rank8 leggings are good)
3.) 2x TT99 HA Ornaments (Lionhearts that is)
4.) Lunar Glade Cape

5.) Gorenox Vanity
6.) Rank8 Chest (Cheap if you cashed in on the rep sale)

OR

5.) Decides
6.) Rank 4/Rank6/Rank7 chest pieces


5.0 APS Setup for a BM

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Since they cannot get the interval on the rank armour,

They would need to compensate with either an additional -.05 or -0.10 depending on their other equips. This basically leads to the path down either -> Love: up and down tome [OR] pan gu tome [OR] Nirvana Leggings which are indeed expensive

If youre a sage demon, you need to invest more.

For Sins

---

Although they get the same mods as an archer, daggers have a slower atk rate to fists (although lower dagger aps would be more effective than higher fist aps due to the dmg output of daggers being DEX based).

But if you wanna still hit 5.0 with a sin, you would need to go the nirvana leggings or tome or both depending on your cultivation i guess.

While technically more expensive, sins can out dps archers/BMs with a lower aps. And While sins can use fists/claws, their DPS would be way lower than when using daggers. Pretty sure Dagger 4.0 DPS > Fist/Claw 5.0 DPS. Its like if archers had 5.0 with bows (If I had...I would npc my fists).


And for Runewolf,

Usually if a BM is around, HF is expected at the start, so for the initial battle I switch to fists and take advantage of the DPS with HF (since i do hit at 5.0 aps with demon spark). I can choose to spark with bow but am most likely to steal aggro and move runewolf away from the melee DDers like sins and BMs which would only **** everyone off. So yea I start out with fists and if the battle goes beyond the first "SLASH" run, I switch to bows so that I can attack from outside the aoe range when everyone is running for their lives.

Fist_Mama - Harshlands

im lvl 95 and only do with 90-95 squad we cant kill by first slash

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For Sins

---

Although they get the same mods as an archer, daggers have a slower atk rate to fists (although lower dagger aps would be more effective than higher fist aps due to the dmg output of daggers being DEX based).

But if you wanna still hit 5.0 with a sin, you would need to go the nirvana leggings or tome or both depending on your cultivation i guess.

While technically more expensive, sins can out dps archers/BMs with a lower aps. And While sins can use fists/claws, their DPS would be way lower than when using daggers. Pretty sure Dagger 4.0 DPS > Fist/Claw 5.0 DPS. Its like if archers had 5.0 with bows (If I had...I would npc my fists).

Sage Sins can only reach 4 aps. Unless you could Windshield.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Well so yea, what I used to do was, if it was a APS based squad (BM, Sin Tanking Rune), I would run up spark and hit till he starts his SLASH, (by this time I would have 3 sparks as well), then run to max range, shift to bow, spark and atk.

If we have a barb tanking (a more traditional squad), then I just atk with bow since there would be too much aggro switching (barb aggro skills <.<) and the cleric would most likely support the barb and I would eventually die b:chuckle.

95+ Runs with 4 other APS DDs, I wouldnt need to switch to bow 99% of the time, since the boss dies before the first slash.

The important thing with playing an archer is to know when to use which weapon. I love both my rank8 bow and my gorenox vanities and it gives a greater deal of versatility in the gameplay.....with the right stuff.

@Olbaze
Ty for that information .

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

5.0 APS Setup for an Archer

---

...

5.0 APS Setup for a BM

---

...

For Sins

---

dagger blah blah blah

OR

Use the same setup as archer and do same damage

I fixed that for you. You can't say archer is cheaper than sin when they both can use the exact same 5.0 setup. Its just that sins have access to a more expensive and effective setup that archers dont have access to.

Elviron - Dreamweaver

Agreed Ast .

The reason I assumed sins would stick to daggers given that dagger aps is not that far behind a fist and the damage output would be rather high to compensate for the loss in aps.

How I would love bow aps at 4.0 or even 3.33.

Neodaystar - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Originally Posted by Elviron - Dreamweaver View Post
5.0 APS Setup for an Archer

---

...

5.0 APS Setup for a BM

---

...

For Sins

---

dagger blah blah blah

OR

Use the same setup as archer and do same damage


I fixed that for you. You can't say archer is cheaper than sin when they both can use the exact same 5.0 setup. Its just that sins have access to a more expensive and effective setup that archers dont have access to.

Not exactly the same damage if the sin also uses the setup as the archer. Archer will deal slightly more due to the magic damage from blazing arrow buff.

Brigid - Harshlands

Neodaystar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not exactly the same damage if the sin also uses the setup as the archer. Archer will deal slightly more due to the magic damage from blazing arrow buff.

But the Assassin gets Wolf Emblem. Too lazy to do the math though.