LA is bad? I don't know about that.

flamingahole

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Crit works differently for Mage than it does for ranged phsyical or melee.

No. It doesn't. Crit% is crit% whether you're an archer, veno, psychic, barb, wizard or noodle.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

flamingahole wrote: »

No. It doesn't. Crit% is crit% whether you're an archer, veno, psychic, barb, wizard or noodle.

b:laugh Try playing a LA Veno then. Or, don't believe me, and I won't care.

xposed1

The only class that should be wearing light armor was Sins and archers. THE END.

BTW all your validity jumped through the roof when you said a mage with 1% crit actually has .1% crit and 7% crit on a veno is actually 30-70% crit.

Bai b:kiss

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

xposed1 wrote: »

The only class that should be wearing light armor was Sins and archers. THE END.

BTW all your validity jumped through the roof when you said a mage with 1% crit actually has .1% crit and 7% crit on a veno is actually 30-70% crit.

Bai b:kiss

Uhh... Okay. b:bye

I never said it had a .1% crit rate, I said it was like a .1% crit rate. You never get a crit as a mage with 5 dex. One a week was the joke. Getting 3-4 per mob out of 10-12 hits isn't a 7% rate, either, and that's what I'm getting right now. It varies greatly, sometimes I'll get a bunch in a row, sometimes I will only get one crit on a mob out of 10 attacks. These are non-AOE.

If you get an AOE crit, it typically Crits everything the AOE hits, minus a few. So, if I'm in FCC, and I AOE 30 mobs, and it crits, I'll crit maybe 28 out of those 30 mobs. And it'll do that twice in a row, once on Noxious, then on Nova, and the next Noxious might be non-crit. Barrage, if it crits in my experience, will crit on one at a time, maybe two if you're lucky.

Adroit - Lost City

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Uhh... Okay. b:bye

I never said it had a .1% crit rate, I said it was like a .1% crit rate. You never get a crit as a mage with 5 dex. One a week was the joke. Getting 3-4 per mob out of 10-12 hits isn't a 7% rate, either, and that's what I'm getting right now. It varies greatly, sometimes I'll get a bunch in a row, sometimes I will only get one crit on a mob out of 10 attacks. These are non-AOE.

If you get an AOE crit, it typically Crits everything the AOE hits, minus a few. So, if I'm in FCC, and I AOE 30 mobs, and it crits, I'll crit maybe 28 out of those 30 mobs. And it'll do that twice in a row, once on Noxious, then on Nova, and the next Noxious might be non-crit. Barrage, if it crits in my experience, will crit on one at a time, maybe two if you're lucky.

Just pulled that from your *** didn't you? You obviously have no idea how crit works.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Just pulled that from your *** didn't you? You obviously have no idea how crit works.

b:sleep How did you guess?

threepointone

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Uhh... Okay. b:bye

I never said it had a .1% crit rate, I said it was like a .1% crit rate. You never get a crit as a mage with 5 dex. One a week was the joke. Getting 3-4 per mob out of 10-12 hits isn't a 7% rate, either, and that's what I'm getting right now. It varies greatly, sometimes I'll get a bunch in a row, sometimes I will only get one crit on a mob out of 10 attacks. These are non-AOE.

If you get an AOE crit, it typically Crits everything the AOE hits, minus a few. So, if I'm in FCC, and I AOE 30 mobs, and it crits, I'll crit maybe 28 out of those 30 mobs. And it'll do that twice in a row, once on Noxious, then on Nova, and the next Noxious might be non-crit. Barrage, if it crits in my experience, will crit on one at a time, maybe two if you're lucky.

I crit all the time on my Wizard with 5 Dex. And crits are RANDOM, the fact that you crit 28/30 mobs is PURE LUCK, it has nothing to do with whether the skill is an AoE or not. Each mob, when hit, has a percentage (which is your crit rate) to be hit with a crit.

Devoted - Lost City

I heard calliey has 114% crit.

Kerona - Sanctuary

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is not strictly true, since they can debuff their opponents accuracy and channeling rate, and because they have a self healing attack. Leach will not replace bloodpaint on a 5aps character, but its better than most archer heals. And, of course, neither archers nor assassins have the +200% bonus to pdef that foxes get.

Mmm my point was Archers don't get self heals/pdef buffs, because they are ranged and don't need them. Sins get massive evasion/crit buffs/bloodrange because they are in melee range and get walloped on by every mob in existance. Ever tried a sin without bloodpaint? Not fun A veno doesn't get these bonuses, and melee damage from a magic weapon is not pretty. Sure, you can kill things in melee as a veno, but it's not optimal unless you're HA build and glitchin' some fists.

@ Sarra:
Crits are like a huge LOOK AT ME beacon. When you crit you go WOW then when you crit again you go Broken RNG!? You're not actually counting the hits inbetween crits so much as the crits you get. At 10% crit i've tested, I crit about 9-12% of the time depending on how broken the rng is that day. Nowhere near 30-70%. Do some quick tests on your LA veno, garuntee it's not what you actually think.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Kerona - Sanctuary wrote: »

Mmm my point was Archers don't get self heals/pdef buffs, because they are ranged and don't need them. Sins get massive evasion/crit buffs/bloodrange because they are in melee range and get walloped on by every mob in existance. Ever tried a sin without bloodpaint? Not fun A veno doesn't get these bonuses, and melee damage from a magic weapon is not pretty. Sure, you can kill things in melee as a veno, but it's not optimal unless you're HA build and glitchin' some fists.

But archers get two melee range skills. Granted, one is a knockback, but that has a relatively long cooldown. Meanwhile, sage archers get a melee attack skill with a 1 second cooldown.

And for damage, sage venos in fox form get a +200% increase on their physical attack. Meanwhile, a +12 dominating power (barbarian rank 8 weapon) has a damage range of 1970-2822 while a +12 Pataka of Melodic Prophecy (veno rank 8 weapon) has a physical damage range of 1752-1925. So.. yes, you do lose some base damage from using a melee range magic weapon instead of axes.

So... a melee range sage veno in light armor will have decent accuracy (one of the higher accuracies in the game) and pdef (comparable to heavy armor), can get a nice physical attack (potentially one of the highest unsparked physical attacks in the game), and has a 70% accuracy debuf (and can get squad buffs, including the archer evasion buff), and self heals (one of which has a six second cooldown). That may not be "better" defense than other classes, but it's not entirely worthless either. They have downsides, yes, but its not like you can't do well with this kind of build.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm a jack of all trades, and have so many other characters it's not funny. My experiences are varied, from LA/AA Veno to HA/LA BM, Sin, Cleric, etc., etc., etc. Basically, in my experiences so far, LA works really well for Archer. What armor would be better, if you could move stat points without consequence to damage? HA? Playing my HA Veno right now, which is basically an Archer that only does magic damage and has **** for range, magic mobs deal a lot of damage to her. Sure, I can tank it, but my HA Veno has about the same HP as my Archer did at the same level, and when it comes to ranged magic mobs, my Veno wouldn't survive without a pet.

My LA Veno is constantly switching between LA and AA. Sometimes mixing and matching. My BM is borrowing some of my Archer's LA for instances, for the increase in MDef. IMO, the LA is a great deal for Archer. You get decent MDef, and decent PDef. You aren't a BM with 12 million PDef, and you aren't a Wiz with 12 million MDef, but you aren't a BM with 6 MDef, or a Wiz with 6 PDef.

I can take 2-3 mobs at once my own level on Archer, and survive. I can't really do that with my Venos, my pets take the aggro. My BM does just fine, as long as they do physical damage only. Marrow Magical is kind of a bandaid, if you get a phsyical and magical mob at the same time, you're screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.

And that brings me to Sin. They get very little benefit from LA. They need more PDef, and don't get it from LA. They get MDef, that they don't really need, until the 50's. So... I don't know, I am just fine with LA. So can someone tell me why, exactly, LA is not the best for Archer? I'd personally go LA regardless...

i gues none of your chars are endgame.
If so, whatever you're trying to say there doesn't really matter. Up to 100 you can wear clown pants if u want, FC will still be easy. At 100 or 101 depends what path you wanna go, and set bonuses and mixed set bonuses can make a big difference.

Fleuri - Sanctuary

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Up to 100 you can wear clown pants if u wan...

This can only be true if you can farm their mold. You will not find clown pants in any packs, nor in any kitty shops.

b:chuckle

Ursa - Dreamweaver

It's a DQ mold, highly underappreciated.

_Leif - Lost City

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

My Crit Rate as reported on my stats page is 7%. In reality, I crit between 30 and 70% of the time. My longest crit chain was 20 crits in a row. b:chuckle

Crit works differently for Mage than it does for ranged phsyical or melee. I don't get many crits when I melee, that's for sure. This was the main reason i went LA over HA... And I noticed this early on when I made an LA build at level 40 on an alt Veno.

Pure Mage, with 1%, I'd crit once every 30-50 mobs, if that, or maybe twice on a long long boss. Basically a 0.1% crit rate. That was with 5 dex.

If you're going to post any sort of math on archer forums, you have to at least minor in mathematics in college. That said, I'm not exactly sure you know how statistics and probability work:

http://www.amazon.com/Probability-Dummies-Deborah-Rumsey/dp/0471751413/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295584298&sr=8-1

Kerona - Sanctuary

Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »

But archers get two melee range skills. Granted, one is a knockback, but that has a relatively long cooldown. Meanwhile, sage archers get a melee attack skill with a 1 second cooldown.

And for damage, sage venos in fox form get a +200% increase on their physical attack. Meanwhile, a +12 dominating power (barbarian rank 8 weapon) has a damage range of 1970-2822 while a +12 Pataka of Melodic Prophecy (veno rank 8 weapon) has a physical damage range of 1752-1925. So.. yes, you do lose some base damage from using a melee range magic weapon instead of axes.

So... a melee range sage veno in light armor will have decent accuracy (one of the higher accuracies in the game) and pdef (comparable to heavy armor), can get a nice physical attack (potentially one of the highest unsparked physical attacks in the game), and has a 70% accuracy debuf (and can get squad buffs, including the archer evasion buff), and self heals (one of which has a six second cooldown). That may not be "better" defense than other classes, but it's not entirely worthless either. They have downsides, yes, but its not like you can't do well with this kind of build.

I never said it couldn't be done. Sarra said she had a harder time tanking in LA with her veno when her pet died (as she has considerable magic in her char). I was explaining why. Personally, I have a HA melee veno so none of this is new to me. b:surrender