A Discussion on Stacking (with BH59 in particular)

VWolfFangsv - Dreamweaver

Something I noticed from the OP - you say it's about your squad, not you. I also noticed that your whole squad wanted to kill Ofotis first. And you decided drake was to be first so you rushed to kill drakes guard first. Nobody wants to squad with a person like that, so they left. QQ moar. Big deal.

Ao - Raging Tide

I believe that it's natural for people to do today's chain and as such it's obviously top priority. If the people weren't intending to do that day's chain, they should have shouted 'Forming fail stackers squad' instead, so that no one gets confused. I also believe non-stacking is their own problem. b:surrender

If someone has to kill a boss that is not part of today's chain, they are supposed to ask the others for help after today's chain is finished. I would never refuse to help. >.>

All in all, what I certainly know is that lately I have been sympathizing less and less with such people... who are also the reason I don't do BH anymore. b:sad This story is nothing, they just ragequit the squad. There are really horrific stories no one wants to remember. ><:::

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

I mostly agree with Miugre on this, for different reasons. Mine are; for one. I don't know anyone in the squad, most of the time (While I was at the BH59 stage). So I couldn't give two flying bits about their chain and what bosses were needed, I went with whatever was that day's chain.
Second point, Wine split is 35k, after BH39 if you haven't learned how to stack your BH. You are a complete waste of my time. I can see how you'd need explaining on how stacking your BH would cut back on the time you'd need if and when you got the annoying backwards BH39 or BH51. By the time you're at the 59, if you haven't learned how to stack your BH. You're an idiot, there's nothing more to it than that.

You would've heard the term "stacked" a million times by then and people would've asked a million times by then, and if anyone has half a brain they would've looked on the forum or asked how to get "stacked". Anyway, back to the main point.

When I did BH59, I found the few people that weren't too poor to cough up a whopping 35k for wine splits and just wine the dungeon and do it from start to finish. With a half decent squad the whole dungeon takes less than 20 minutes, and most of it is just running back and forth the valleys of the bosses. And since I solely did stacked runs and even expected from people to just be stacked or know how to by that level and that BH stage. I never encountered the OP's problem.
However, I did refuse to join squads or just leave them if someone wasn't stacked. I really don't feel like waiting for the person to fly back to archo (and yes, most flew. You can argue all you want how it's cost efficient to just port. But I will argue with you with the simple statement of; let's remove all safety labels off of house hold items. The idiots will just kill themselves) and then back to the dungeon.
Anywaaaaaaaaaaay, long story short; wine the damn BH59, do all bosses from Zimo to glut and get on with hypering the rest of the day to level. b:pleased

LyuFong - Sanctuary

That is why I aways kill all bosses in bh runs, even if I need only one boss... Not only you help everybody, but you also have a good chance to get some awesome molds (got my axes this way).

If you want to do things your way, and ONLY in your way,then I suggest you to stay away from mmorpgs.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear

My problem with bh59 is when you ask "is everyone stacked" that means to some people i have bh 1 for quainji and drake and a bh 2 for zimo or something like that. they tell you yes i am stacked i been picking them up every day for the past week. I just facepalm and know its gonna be a long bh

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

This stupidity over BH59 is the reason I no longer do BH's anymore.

Finding a BH29 is extremely difficult on Sanctuary. I've been told to 'go into secret passage and ask', yet that is just plain stupid. Tried it, been there, done that. I've run BH29 for friends, and WC'ed 3-5 times over the course of an hour that I was doing it, and gotten no replies. And on this note, it's getting difficult to find BH39 sometimes.

BH59 is a special case, and the main reason it pissed me off is the constant spamming going on at HH for 'Need a barb for BH59.' You shouldn't ever need a barb if you have an arcane class in squad other than your cleric, or two clerics. My veno was doing wined solo runs at levels 78 and 79, no cleric at all. I got tons of molds due to double drops, it was pretty awesome.

I got pissed off at having a 6 person squad turn into a 3 person slog by boss 3. "Oh, I only needed Drake." "Sorry, that squad is nub." *No reply*

I got my veno from level 1 to level 65 before BH even existed, and didn't even do BH's until level 70. Sadly I BHed my Cleric from level 40 to level 70, and now have to go do a bunch of quests with extremely low drop rate for quest drops because I'm 20 levels above the mobs that drop the quest drops. b:surrender Oh well. Not making that mistake on my Archer.

Ao - Raging Tide

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

BH59 is a special case, and the main reason it pissed me off is the constant spamming going on at HH for 'Need a barb for BH59.'

Same here. b:laugh This is what happen every day.

Player X shouts: Bh 59 need barb pm me!
Later Player X shouts again: BH 59 LF BARB LAST SPOT!!
And finally I see the same person being desperate again: BH 59 NEEDS BARB LAST SPOT WINED NO FEE SQD READY TO GO PM ME PLEASE!!!!!

And I pm player X and tell them *you dont need a barb for bh 59... any magic class can be a tank, only magic bosses in bh/fb 59*

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Little bit of clarification on this one:

I did not kill Zimo's guard, I killed Drake's guard because Drake was the target. And although I'd started killing it already when "ofo" came up, I did in fact finish the kill deliberately. You call it selfish without understanding why - when in the OP, I said:

Zimo/Drake whatever the point is still the same. You just did what you wanted to do without consulting the squad and kept doing it your way instead of caring about what the squad wanted.

I have been in squads that do not understand the stacking system at all. Some of them understand it after being given the explanation. Then again, I've also been in squads where I'm trying to explain it and some selfish person kills the Zimo guard or whoever without even listening. I figured this time I should take out the correct guard and then explain why.

In other words you assumed they wouldn't understand because other people didn't and just decided to assume they were ignorant and do what you wanted. Then explain yourself later. I can't figure out one reason why that wouldn't backfire. I just love it when people judge me based off the actions of people that didn't have anything to do with me. I just love it when people just do what they want to do and then talk down to me later about is best for me. /sarcasm. Honestly though, I hope you've learned a valuable (if cliche) lesson.
When you make assume things about people you make an (insert slang word for gluteus maximus here) out of U and ME.

The other person wasn't being selfish because "I wanted zimo and they wouldn't let me." To want them to kill Zimo would have been selfish of me. I just wanted to do the chain, and this person selected ofo without even asking the squad if everyone was stacked or if diverting from chain order was okay.

Wrong the other person was selfish because they weren't paying attention to you, and as a member of your squad they should have been. They should have said something before you entered the instance or at least before you had attacked. Once you had attacked though, they should have just went with it since what was done was done and they hadn't said anything to make you think otherwise before you attacked. It wasn't rude to ask things be done different, or to ask for help for a boss that you guys might not need because they want to find out if the squad is right for them. That is what should be done before you enter the instance. That way, if it isn't the right squad you can find someone to help you while it's still worth someone else's while and thus in a timely manner. And they can complete all of their quests too. By the way, when someone says "I need OFO first," that is them effectively asking if it's okay if OFO is done first. That is why the rest of the squad responded with an affirmative. They were saying, I need OFO first. Is that okay?

I actually did ask the squad if they were doing the Drake chain when I joined it. Some people don't understand this question, I guess. -_- But really, is it necessary to do that every time? I think if there's no discussion on the matter, the squad should default to the order that best benefits everyone involved (i.e. the chain). It should've been up to the ofo person to suggest doing ofo first. But then again, the worst part was when the other person asked "who first?" when we got there. Comments like that just tempt this kind of on-the-fly deviation and the resultant problems, I guess.

So please, don't pick out one single detail and demonize me for it. o.O

Yes, it's necessary to do that every time. If you don't ask it then you have no right to complain about the squad agreeing to a different order. Either go with the flow, or let people know from the beginning what your needs are. If theirs differ and they can't be reconciled you don't mess up their BH when you leave because you got it worked out from the beginning. To assume that everyone does things the way you do, and thus that will benefit them best is a bit narcissistic. I know plenty of people who will grab their BHs but then for whatever reason, be unable to do them that day and do them later. Ideally, everyone will need the same bosses. But don't join a squad that plans on doing a boss you do not need if you do not want have to kill something you don't need. Being a team is sometimes about sacrificing a little bit of your time for them, and vice versa, so that everyone involved can reach a goal that isn't obtainable by themselves. You needed their help to beat your boss, why shouldn't you give them the same thing back in return. How is it selfish of them to ask you to help them out after they've done you a favor. And yes they are doing you a favor, they let you join their squad when they could have gotten someone else.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Ao - Raging Tide wrote: »

Same here. b:laugh This is what happen every day.

Player X shouts: Bh 59 need barb pm me!
Later Player X shouts again: BH 59 LF BARB LAST SPOT!!
And finally I see the same person being desperate again: BH 59 NEEDS BARB LAST SPOT WINED NO FEE SQD READY TO GO PM ME PLEASE!!!!!

And I pm player X and tell them *you dont need a barb for bh 59... any magic class can be a tank, only magic bosses in bh/fb 59*

lmao

I see "Need barb for bh 59"

Then a every 30 seconds for the next hour, sometimes, the same, exact, line, over and over and over and over and over again. I also tried the whisper thing, but got tired of the flames by 8 year olds playing their cousin's gf's dog's account that don't know what they're doing. Oh, wait, it's a 28 year old, and it's their account, and they still don't know what they're doing, because they used Hypers/Oracles to get from level 1 to level 74 in 3 days, and have no skills learned at all. >_>

Alasen - Heavens Tear

There's just one problem with your reasoning. RANDOM BH squads usually have a sin (like mine.. lol). If i were in a squad with a cleric or wiz or psy tank... It'd be like hitting it with a veno pet tanking. hit it with rib strike then sit on my **** for a bit while the "tank" builds up hate. If there's a barb i don't need to worry about getting my butt chewed out if i yank hate onto me..... and boss dies alot faster. Yes mages can tank 59, but depending on what's in your squad you'll still probably want a barb.

As for the stacking... I do my BH's on my 7x sin. Then i turn them in and get the next ones then wait till the next day to keep them stacked. Now I don't know if i stacked them wrong or what. you do #1, then turn it in get 2 and wait till the next day. Next day u get 1, do 1 and 2, turn them in and get 2 and 3 then wait till the next day. THIRD day u get 1 (and you're stacked), do all 3, turn em in and get the next and next day u got 3 again & keep repeating.

Sometimes I get in squads (actually most of the time) where half the squad has different bosses. Say I've got Ofo Drake and Glutt. Somone's got Zimo, and someone else has Qianji. We do the whole cave... I've NEVER ran into one person that threw a fit about having to do the whole thing. If you dont' slack off and know what you're doing it takes an hour or less... As far as I'm concerned the OP was a idiot and selfsih as hell in her reasoning and actions. Keep in mind some people dont' DO BH every DAY.. hence those that dont' have "today's" BH. Also like to point out on that note that whoever said peopel who dont' have today's BH are fail... is just a total moron. But that's my opinion.... heh

Toliman - Raging Tide

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There's just one problem with your reasoning. RANDOM BH squads usually have a sin (like mine.. lol). If i were in a squad with a cleric or wiz or psy tank... It'd be like hitting it with a veno pet tanking. hit it with rib strike then sit on my **** for a bit while the "tank" builds up hate. If there's a barb i don't need to worry about getting my butt chewed out if i yank hate onto me..... and boss dies alot faster. Yes mages can tank 59, but depending on what's in your squad you'll still probably want a barb...

1. Wizard can get agro from barb at Drake.
2. Wizard is good tank for Zimo too (physical attack of Zimo is high, magical reduced to 500-1200 with good arcane armor).
Fire spells can hit metal Zimo very hard.
3. Wizard can heal himself if cleric busy.

Edit: It is good to do stacking BHs, but if you kill same bosses with same squad more than once, it is boring.

Alasen - Heavens Tear

And my sin's pulled hate off a wizard once, hence everything i just said..... and yes they had good gear.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And my sin's pulled hate off a wizard once, hence everything i just said..... and yes they had good gear.

In case if squad has multiple tanks, cleric(s) must use BB.

Problem solved.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

if the sin deals more damage... let him tank?
if he cant tank then hold back just like every other DD does since the dawn of time
it's not like barbs have a skill to hold aggro no matter what.

if the sin steals agrro from a wiz that gives his max dps the he would probably steal aggro from the barb too (or wiz' weapon is...week)

Silest - Sanctuary

Lmao, quest past 59. The resetting is annoying.

Abstractive - Archosaur

To OP: Get a charm, refine those equips and weapon and solo the damn thing, praying to God you survive.

/end joke

Fleuri - Sanctuary

I am just wondering, how much time would it have taken to click squad chat and type:

Drake

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Alasen - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There's just one problem with your reasoning. RANDOM BH squads usually have a sin (like mine.. lol). If i were in a squad with a cleric or wiz or psy tank... It'd be like hitting it with a veno pet tanking. hit it with rib strike then sit on my **** for a bit while the "tank" builds up hate. If there's a barb i don't need to worry about getting my butt chewed out if i yank hate onto me..... and boss dies alot faster. Yes mages can tank 59, but depending on what's in your squad you'll still probably want a barb.

As for the stacking... I do my BH's on my 7x sin. Then i turn them in and get the next ones then wait till the next day to keep them stacked. Now I don't know if i stacked them wrong or what. you do #1, then turn it in get 2 and wait till the next day. Next day u get 1, do 1 and 2, turn them in and get 2 and 3 then wait till the next day. THIRD day u get 1 (and you're stacked), do all 3, turn em in and get the next and next day u got 3 again & keep repeating.

Sometimes I get in squads (actually most of the time) where half the squad has different bosses. Say I've got Ofo Drake and Glutt. Somone's got Zimo, and someone else has Qianji. We do the whole cave... I've NEVER ran into one person that threw a fit about having to do the whole thing. If you dont' slack off and know what you're doing it takes an hour or less... As far as I'm concerned the OP was a idiot and selfsih as hell in her reasoning and actions. Keep in mind some people dont' DO BH every DAY.. hence those that dont' have "today's" BH. Also like to point out on that note that whoever said peopel who dont' have today's BH are fail... is just a total moron. But that's my opinion.... heh

Your reasoning is flawed.

1) As a DD, you need to learn how to control your damage. Learn now, or you will be dieing a lot in FCC, and be labeled as a noob/hyper noob/oracle noob. Really, though, if you can pull aggro off a wiz at any boss in BH59, congrats. Unless the wiz is level 70 and you are level 79, I really don't see it happening.

2) Learn your skills. Use lower-aggro skills... And you should know you can't sleep/stun most bosses, and the BH59 bosses are in the 'can't' catagory (FB19 bosses can be stunned, IIRC). If you're spamming high aggro skills, you could potentially pull aggro off a lazy barb anyway.

3) Communicate with your squad? make sure everyone knows what is going on. Anyone who doesn't communicate, boot them. Or leave. Even if you have a Barb. My rule anyway for random squads. Or if someone is dragging an alt along. Someone on follow for the entire instance that isn't even auto-attacking? Either they leave, or I leave. End of story. Level your character by playing it.

This is all completely pointless as nobody ever has any kind of magic class ever tank BH59 anymore. Only Barbs. It's really dumb, and pointless, and a waste of time. Randoms wouldn't even let my BM tank 39, and I have interval gear, so thus, took aggro from the Barb repeatedly. Same in 51. I out-leveled that gear and it has gone to my Veno now. XD