Share your techniques/Venos are NOT useless!!!

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

Neither are all the examples I gave. Please troll elsewhere?

Like the pot calling the kettle black. *sigh *

Jadsia - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

One thing from the 5aps vs caster debate is our dominance in AoE and the point that we should be moving more toward AoE style instance clearing. Nova, Myriad, Malefic Crush all take chi. A lot of clerics use BB to be lazy, and 5aps generates them as fast as they use them. At higher levels sages get Master Li's Technique, and skills that help conserve / create chi for themselves. Many will think that their chi is a priority over ours.

And then, an int build can't even dd better than a caster if the mob is kiting. -Stunning Blow takes chi. Then there's Ironwood.

LOL at accusing a cleric for using an effective skill that spam heals a party as being lazy.

An int build can be just as effective as a caster against kiting mobs because most int builds I see for the exception of a fist barb (and a claw archer for obvious reasons) has a decent stun skill which allows the Int DD to pound away for a few seconds. So there is pretty much an level playing field with respect to the DD. There are a few exceptions for when it comes to some flying mobs like staunch worms or mobs that cast a reflect buff like the pigs with blades north of the Town of Arrivals where a caster has a clear advantage but that what having friends to help are for.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

*Barb doesn't want to wear armor because it's ugly: unwanted in squad for it
*Cleric prefers to DD and doesn't think Purge is worth getting: unwanted in squad for it
*Archer doesn't want to waste ammo, so they use fists: unwanted in squad for it.
*Wiz sits and meds when out of MP: unwanted in squad for it
*Veno doesn't want herc: squad doesn't want veno

-what's the big f'n deal? You act like it's the only class expected to meet certain requirements.

when did venos die and clerics got purge?

Axelire - Heavens Tear

From a non-veno perspective.

If the instance requires pulling, time your pulls so the squad doesn't have to stand around twiddling their thumbs.

Know when to stow your pet, whether thats with regards to certain bosses or certain spots in instances where your pet isn't going to successfully ninja past.

Know when to amp, which is as often as possible when applicable.

Know when to purge, do it as soon as possible, especially when the target gives indications that it is going to self-buff soon.

Make sure the applicable classes have bramble on. Be alert when someone uses alpha male, and if the barb has demon roar.

Regenbogen - Lost City

veno are the #1 support class
- bramble for tank
- purge
- debuffs(ironwood,myriad rainbow skills,amp)
- chi transfer(the 15sec cooldown on lv11 is so awesome)
- 1by1 luring
- pet as backup tank if the barb dies

Desdi - Sanctuary

I'm sick of seeing lazymancers, fail players, people killing this class...

I have tried several classes and the Venomancer has been the most challenging and versatile class for me. You don't control just your character...you have to control two things at the same time and sometimes those two things, character and pet, have to do different things. Not to mention and set of debuffs they have. When it comes to classes, debuffer is my choice. I don't even need to try out any other class to know..I go for the debuffers, always.

I try to use all the debuffs I have ( Amplify Damage, Ironwood, Myriad Rainbow, Pet debuffs, genie debuffs) all the time because I love doing that. Turning into Fox Form for Amplify Damage at the beginning of every boss fight has become a "second nature" to me. I also love doing other little duties, whatever the squad lacks and needs. Be it a puller or a tank, a DD or someone to escort the Cleric back to the team. I always keep an eye on the guards/walkers and I'm always the one to go after them while the squad handles the boss. If things go wrong I take aggro in whatever ways I can without a second thought. Venomancers have a lot of skills to protect/save themselves and pet tricks to keep the boss from reseting or killing the rest of the squad. Yes even with Polearm or whatever boss you find impossible (don't know about TT3-2/3-3 and Nirvana though. Those must be harder). Not to mention little things like, buffing the tank again after he uses Alpha Male, timing your debuffs with Blademaster Heaven's Flame etc. etc.

There are so many things a Venomancer can do..and should do. Sometimes I just want to kill those fail players -.-

Shneibel - Harshlands

Kinnacat - Lost City wrote: »

I agree, venos are NOT useless:

It makes me rage when a frost squad keeps refusing me. Venos are good DDs, pretty high dmg and we have a pet to make even more. The skills we have have already been mentioned. (amp, myriad, lending hand, etc...)

All this to say, VENOS ARE NOT USELESS.

HERCS:

Oh come on, refused because I don't have a freakin' butt ugly herc? Want me to show you SS of a little Tabby Plumdrop tanking frost and HH bosses? I can do that. Hercs are a very good (and expensive I might add) tank pet. But they aren't the only ones. A lvl 80 Armored Bear with no modified skills can tank frost. A magmite can too (I add them even if I hate those walking piles of rocks, they bring back bad memories).

Aly, lvl 93 (soon 94) Tabby Plumdrop

Aly is a Tabby Plumdrop, rare pet. I tamed her myself at lvl 26, she was the first rare I ever tamed (very proud of that b:victory).

I buffed her with Strong, Protect, Reflect and Blessing of The Pack. Aly's mag def is 18k, phys def 16k, HP 3.3k, reflects 1.5k-3.5.k dmg depending what hits her. Her defense is as good as a herc her lvl. What saves a herc's butt is his HP. Yes, she has a bit less HP, but I got 90% of a herc with her. FB bosses are no problem, even 89 ones. (can't wait to try higher lvl FBs)

The skills cost me 75mill, but now with SoF/nix feathers being around 10k each last time I checked, a herc is around 100mill. The reasons I decided to overpower Aly are :

1- she now has 90% of a herc's power

2- less expensive

3- I love seeing ppl go WAHHHAAAAA THIS IS SO WRONG < (lvl 91 sins couldn't steal agro with demon spark, that made them rage. Some sins also hate it that she resists better than they do. Funny b:laugh)

4- way cuter than a herc

5- she shows ppl that even a little kitty can tank, no need for a herc (I hate those things btw)

All this ^ to say, A VENO DOESN'T NEED A HERC TO BE A TANK.

~If you wish you could use one of your pets all the time, ex: kowlin, shaodu cub..., just overpower it! b:pleased

i do agree veno dont need a herc to tank, but if you spend 75kk for a modifiel pet, why dont you just buy a herc when it need around 15kk more (around)

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver

Shneibel - Harshlands wrote: »

i do agree veno dont need a herc to tank, but if you spend 75kk for a modifiel pet, why dont you just buy a herc when it need around 15kk more (around)

cause herc is uglyb:chuckle

Silest - Sanctuary

As for techniques, well im pretty standard..

tweakz

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

LOL at accusing a cleric for using an effective skill that spam heals a party as being lazy.

Should I go around rewording things you say to discredit you? Troll

Fresh_Aire - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

Should I go around rewording things you say to discredit you? Troll

Why are you here?

......aren't you an APS Veno?

......so you don't know anything about pulling....(or apparently anything else since you're trying to defend how APS isn't OP--)

Gtfo. b:bye

Healforwimps - Heavens Tear

Silest - Sanctuary wrote: »

..I've been mini ranting about that in the veno forum for a while now..

Venomancer is a class that attracts noobs who rush to 100 -.-. They take no time to learn the class and just give the good ones a bad name.

Oh please,maybe once upon a time when veno was head and shoulders above any other classs for soloing,but as it is now almost all classes have those "noobs who rush to 100"

On top of that tweakz has always been somewhat of a snob when it comes to other venos,it doesn't matter what anyone else plays like or does,only his way is the true way.

@OP,instead of whining about others and complaining that you somehow get a bad name((rofl@that btw,does that keep you awake at night?))just stick to your own game and keep your nose out of others business who you probably never have to squad with anyway.

Tamias - Archosaur

Healforwimps - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@OP,instead of whining about others and complaining that you somehow get a bad name((rofl@that btw,does that keep you awake at night?))just stick to your own game and keep your nose out of others business who you probably never have to squad with anyway.

I was also under the impression that he was asking for venos to share their tactics or did I obviously not read to the very end of his post? >__> Which after reading all of the helpful posts Ive found great advice on how to play veno better and Im grateful for that.

At any rate OMFG I want a kitty now for my veno just so I can trick it out roflmao. Time I told some of the archo APS sins to shove it in the face of cuteness.

BTW is it just me or did everyone forget back in the day that there used to be no hercs just ugly pieces of rocks for tanks? XD

Devinettie - Heavens Tear

Theres something I noticed here, Everyone keeps saying use the skills you have amp purge lending hand Myraid ect... Use them as often as you can blah blah...


My Veno has over 8k mana... Drop down to fox form I go down to 6k.... thats 2k mana just to throw amp & Myriad and stand back up.. Thrown Ironwood then the DoT spells then regular DD spells then back down into fox Amp & Myriad..back up.. Throw Heal mana.. and notice now.. Barb yells for chi..throw chi.. and as soon as the barb yells.. Bm or Sin goes ME too!!! Continue to throw spells starting again with Ironwood then DoT while in cool down.. by the time you get all that done.. drop back down into fox and amp, myraid agian.. and repeat... while the whole time.. Healin pet as needed Running its Bash, Flesh ream, and Howl (all lvl 5), and Running Genie skills...


Now.. heres the things that bother me...

People calling me lazy because I have a Dmg Macro and a Dmg/Heal macro which I can throw and is timed so as soon as it finishes I can drop down Amp & myraid, which gives me time to controll pet and genie.
Barb yelling at me not to use Ironwood because his is better
Barb complaining about Bramble and how it makes his toon move funny
Archers complaining about pulling agro AFTER I throw Ironwood.
People demanding chi after a party wipe... yes I can give chi.. But Cleric gets first dibs, I'm not a Chi machine.. you can make chi on you own as well, and Barbs need to lean how to manage it.
People telling me DoT spells are worthless... thats 3k dmg being done.. while throwing regular hits is not a waste.

The major thing that bothers me.. LF Veno for TT 2-3 for Lureing

Okay.. goes on TT... watched a Sin Or BM lure with a freakin Zeal.. and Sploot.. they are dead.. Yells at veno for not lureing. Or.. here's a good one.. watching a Veno with a Kowlin.. use a Zeal to lure and getting herself killed. Why Yell for a Veno to lure.. if your just gona get yourself killed trying to lure it yourself anyways?

Kinnacat - Lost City

Shneibel - Harshlands wrote: »

i do agree veno dont need a herc to tank, but if you spend 75kk for a modifiel pet, why dont you just buy a herc when it need around 15kk more (around)

For a few reason I mentioned in my post:

1- she now has 90% of a herc's power

2- less expensive

3- I love seeing ppl go WAHHHAAAAA THIS IS SO WRONG < (lvl 91 sins couldn't steal agro with demon spark, that made them rage. Some sins also hate it that she resists better than they do. Funny )

4- way cuter than a herc

5- she shows ppl that even a little kitty can tank, no need for a herc (I hate those things btw)


I could have gotten a herc, but I like my kitty a lot better! =3

tweakz

Kinnacat - Lost City wrote: »

For a few reason I mentioned in my post:

1- she now has 90% of a herc's power

Impossibabble

2- less expensive

But also far less value

3- I love seeing ppl go WAHHHAAAAA THIS IS SO WRONG < (lvl 91 sins couldn't steal agro with demon spark, that made them rage. Some sins also hate it that she resists better than they do. Funny )

Fail sins.

4- way cuter than a herc

Pure opinion. I'd bend over for a Herc.

5- she shows ppl that even a little kitty can tank, no need for a herc (I hate those things btw)

No need to upgrade weapon or armor either. What's point of playing game now?

Tamias - Archosaur

tweakz wrote: »

Impossibabble



But also far less value



Fail sins.



Pure opinion. I'd bend over for a Herc.



No need to upgrade weapon or armor either. What's point of playing game now?

If it were me I wouldnt see the kitty as any less valuable if it can do what the herc does except with less HP. Though on the sin part I would agree tat is a bit fail-ish.

But can you give us the stats Kinn on the kitteh and have them compared to someone who has the same lvl herc?

Kinnacat - Lost City

Tamias - Archosaur wrote: »

At any rate OMFG I want a kitty now for my veno just so I can trick it out roflmao. Time I told some of the archo APS sins to shove it in the face of cuteness.

BTW is it just me or did everyone forget back in the day that there used to be no hercs just ugly pieces of rocks for tanks? XD

GO OVERPOWERED TABBY PLUMDROPS! b:victory Looks like I'll have to find out rare pet times again. b:quiet

I wasn't there at the beginning, but wow lol. No hercs. Must have been heaven! (for me at leastb:avoid ) Lol @ ''ugly pieces of rocks for tanks''. xD

Nuku_Nuku - Raging Tide

i seen a video of what Mystics can do and i am impressed.
they look like a little bit of every class there is now including tideborns.
if they can truly have a pet that can be used anywhere than that is for me.
i like venos cause of its soloist abilities but if a better 1 comes down the line than I'm gonna switch.
the only way i will stay a veno is if we can tame the same pets that are universal.
the only thing i question about the new race is the amount of mana it uses. i am self contained and only need mana positions in boss areas.
i am also tired of the glass jaw the venos has because i am more of a button masher than a strategist but I'm getting used to it.
venos are only good for solo-ists like me but is by far the weakest class when it comes to 1 on 1 on mobs(without the aid of pets).
we are by far the best self containing class out there. the new races looks like they are gonna go threw mana fast.
to me the mystics have the defense buffs of a tideborn,healing power of a cleric and pet taming of a veno. as being a tank, well i think it depends on the build of them. pure int-not,light armour-not, heavy armour-look out barbs.
only time will tell on what the new race can do.
i am loyal to no class,this game is way too grindy to be loyal to it.

NiaJade - Harshlands

Axelire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

From a non-veno perspective.

If the instance requires pulling, time your pulls so the squad doesn't have to stand around twiddling their thumbs.

Know when to stow your pet, whether thats with regards to certain bosses or certain spots in instances where your pet isn't going to successfully ninja past.

Know when to amp, which is as often as possible when applicable.

Know when to purge, do it as soon as possible, especially when the target gives indications that it is going to self-buff soon.

Make sure the applicable classes have bramble on. Be alert when someone uses alpha male, and if the barb has demon roar.

I put my pet on Manual and use Pet Tame to lure - but even using this method I can tank the next mob I pull as my pet continues to tank the one I just pulled. I am a veno that can handle the same mob (not boss) my pet can.

I agree - in some areas, my herc tends to pull aggro even if another pet can get by. Not sure why but over time, I learned...

With Bramble, I have Demon Bramble and let them know this before we begin, and ask 'who wants me to keep them brambled' because I have some that get angry at me for it, even if my pet is 20 levels higher than them (they think they will pull aggro oddly enough).

I also tank bosses in fox form because I am almost pure int., and because I find the fox form skills better for tanking or co-tanking a boss. I use human form for mobs, less I get in too deep and need to leech hp.

For skills, my aim is to get all of the demon skills.... as well as all possible skills for veno.

On another version I use a Golem when I co-tank and a Herc when I tank. I find the Golem just as capable if I have a good fast cast on me.

While I have both of the rare pets, that is more a want then a need. I really feel it is much akin to giving a regular person > an expensive car or a generic brand. In the end, it's all about how well they drive the car..... not it's price tag that makes the difference.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Impossibabble

Only in your little self proclaimed bubble, dear Tweakz.

But also far less value

Not to her and apparently the people that squad with her and rage.

Fail sins.

Anyone not named Tweakz or an exact copy of you is fail. (even then the copy would be considered fail by you cause it's not exactly... well .. you )

Pure opinion. I'd bend over for a Herc.

Ever forgot yours is also JUST an opinion ? Your not PW veno god, stop acting like one.

No need to upgrade weapon or armor either. What's point of playing game now?

Proving people like you wrong.

Y'know Tweakz, ever since my post on actually wanting to learn and understand more about my veno, in which you fought vigorously to make me kneel to your devine powah and I R pro, i USED to think you actually had a point.
ah excuse me you do, Such a shame their all so selfcentred.
Apparently you dont believe non herced veno's deserve a spot in FCC.
Yet at the same time you can not believe your awesome sauce powerfull words do not bring across your message that veno's are one, if not THE, most versatile classes in the game.

tweakz wrote: »

I know I'm not the only one that feels this, but if you don't have a Herc; wth are you doing FF for? Hercs aren't wanted just because they can tank things other pets can't. They're wanted because they're a baseline for dps which only a small amount of pets can beat. Those pets often don't make up the difference from Reflect, and require more healing = less DD from you. If you're one of those venos who refuses to live up to what most other venos have: why try to impose yourself on others. Accept the limitations you choose by refusing to get a Herc.

^^ this is taken from another forum you posted in.
now lets see you heavily contradicting yourself in your CORE message.

tweakz wrote: »

As a veno, I could blame other venos for our lack of demand. Simple things like Amp timed with others like Ironwood, Tangling Mire or Extreme Poison can boost a squad's effectiveness dramatically. Most venos I've seen in action are a waste of squad space; when even a poorly equipped one can contribute to major gains.

A veno is MORE than her/his pet.
And that goes for ANY other class for that matter.

tweakz wrote: »

I can make much more than 1m per hour in more ways than one as a caster.
....

I out dps most archers I squad with 1-1 w/o pet as veno.

tweakz wrote: »

I was stealing aggro from barbs with a pure mag VENO long before 5 aps came along.

tweakz wrote: »

Lmao, really? 4minutes to kill: 2 of me (veno even w/o pet) and a cleric could do it in 3, and that's with a mere +10 TT99 weapon.

One of my favorites

tweakz wrote: »

-It would help if you actually backed up this nonsense instead of repeating it. Where is your source concerning *because they're squishy*? "anybody" isn't a source.

I commented on this one before; use your own advice, Tweakz.
Anybody isn't a source.

Neither are you, neither are you the sole pool of ultimate, sound, bullet proof, failsafe or undeniable soure of information and fact on playing this game, a veno or any other class.
but when it comes to ACTUAL advice giving you only present unsourcefull answers that only reflect your views on the class in general.
anyone else NOT in YOUR elite clique = fail.
anyone NOT dropping down to your words = fail.
anyone NOT stroking your ego on how epic you are = fail.


I do believe you know alot of the veno class, i am not denieing that at all. and you have a small, very small piece of my respects for learning your class the way you did, whether or not that means anything to you, is long since the point.
But you go around trying to "educate" others yet all you do is go around slapping their fingers with a ruler like an overstressed and heavily underpaid teacher, calling them fail.
Yet giving them room to learn, expierence and grow into a veno that could come remotely close to what you might believe to be a "good" veno, you do not.

Kinnacat - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

Impossibabble



But also far less value



Fail sins.



Pure opinion. I'd bend over for a Herc.



No need to upgrade weapon or armor either. What's point of playing game now?

Mhmmmmmm. Well, congratz. You just insulted me big time. Good for you, idk who you are in game. Aly would love to claw your... behind.

Impossibabble... I guess that means impossible.

Here are the stats comparison:

Herc lvl 93

HP (without blessing) : 4270

Attack: 2828

Phys Def (with strong) : 23130 (86%)

Mag Def (with protect) : 18503 (83%)

APS: 0.8

DPS (no bash or other agro skill): 2262


Aly lvl 93

HP (with blessing of course): 3328

Attack: 2183

Phys Def (with strong): 16614 (81%)

Mag Def (with protect): 18123 (82%)

APS: 0.8

DPS (no bash or other agro skill): 1746


Of course, Aly has her stats lower. She's not a 200$ pet from CS. The % for the defense isn't big enough to make a difference. A herc's HP saves it, but with blessing Aly can do it. Her attack is a little lower, but it's not a big difference. Are the small differences worth the approximative 15 millions? Maybe for others, but not to me. And besides, isn't it fun to see a little brown and white tabby cat tank big bosses? b:laugh


Less value? To me she's what has most value in all I own. You can't trade a herc, so the value goes down to 0. Aly would probably sell for 100mill. But that's never gonna happen, she never left my pet bag and she wont now either.


Fail sins, nope. Aly kept agro because she had a few shots in advance on them. With her reflect, she managed to keep agro. If a pet hits once or twice and any player hits constantly after that, the pet will lose agro. If the pet has time to hit a couple of times, with reflect, it will keep agro.

Yes, that is pure opinion. But uhhh... I don't think many ppl find a herc cuter than a little kitty... =x

O.o;;;; So you're telling me I fail, because I overpowered my favorite pet? I upgrade and refine my armor and weapon. I play for different reasons. 1- it's fun. 2- it helps me get away of what I want to forget.

tweakz

Sure, compare unbuffed Herc to buffed pet. lol -90% of power! You're misrepresenting which is dishonest.

Kinnacat - Lost City

tweakz wrote: »

Sure, compare unbuffed Herc to buffed pet. lol -90% of power! You're misrepresenting which is dishonest.

*sigh* I buffed Aly with blessing so her HP is closer to an unbuffed herc. Do venos usually put blessing on a herc? I think the norm is Strong + Protect + Reflect + agro skill. I would have preferred to keep bash instead of blessing, but Aly needed the HP.

Stats for tweakz, king of all venos, always right:

Herc lvl 93

HP (with blessing): 5551


Aly lvl 93

HP (with blessing): 3328

There, happy?

Firenzeball - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Sure, compare unbuffed Herc to buffed pet. lol -90% of power! You're misrepresenting which is dishonest.

Do us all a favor: please shut up and cower behind your small little desk. b:bye

Kinnacat - Lost City

Firenzeball - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Do us all a favor: please shut up and cower behind your small little desk. b:bye

b:laugh


Oh btw, thank you to those that support me and Aly. =3 To the haters, just don't go over my limit please.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

Kinnacat - Lost City wrote: »

b:laugh


Oh btw, thank you to those that support me and Aly. =3 To the haters, just don't go over my limit please.

I think it's pretty awesome that you are using your cute kitty to tank big bosses. That shows great skill in your class. Lol ignore tweakz in his own little world because he obviously thinks that he can play cleric better than I can as well. b:chuckle

Tamias - Archosaur

b:shocked

Oh my god what is this I dont even...

That cat is OP end of story lol. Stop making me want a kitty now QQ

Anyways, could the kitty tank if the veno is anything other than AA? Because after seeing this it makes me feel as if the herc's a luxury pet that's great for HA/LA veno's where the pet heal does a little bit less. Since Im curious about the playstyle of kittens I figure the best person to ask is Kinn lol.

Kinnacat - Lost City

Tamias - Archosaur wrote: »

b:shocked

Oh my god what is this I dont even...

That cat is OP end of story lol. Stop making me want a kitty now QQ

Anyways, could the kitty tank if the veno is anything other than AA? Because after seeing this it makes me feel as if the herc's a luxury pet that's great for HA/LA veno's where the pet heal does a little bit less. Since Im curious about the playstyle of kittens I figure the best person to ask is Kinn lol.

Sorry, what's OP? >.<;

I'm not a full AA veno, I'm a vit/mag hybrid. I have -36% channelling to make up for the mag loss. I would love to answer your question, but I only ever played AA hybrid vit/mag. I honestly don't know. You would probably be ok with HA or LA, since I can heal for about 95% HP in one shot with Aly. As I said, I have no experiance with HA or LA, so I can't tell for sure. Sorry. b:surrender

Too bad we're not on the same server btw, I would get you a tabby lol. I wouldn't be able to give it all the skills, but I would at least try to lvl it up to your veno's lvl. If you want to tame one yourself, you can pm me and I'll give you some useful tips. I've been taming since lvl 20, so I have quite a bit of experience. =]

Kinnacat - Lost City

SaintDominic - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think it's pretty awesome that you are using your cute kitty to tank big bosses. That shows great skill in your class. Lol ignore tweakz in his own little world because he obviously thinks that he can play cleric better than I can as well. b:chuckle

Lol alright, I'll stop answering to tweaks. If he goes over my limit I'll fight back tho.

Actually, I think any veno could have done this. All it took was a bit of thinking and math. I really like my little Aly, she means a lot to me. Since I got her a lvl 26, I wanted to make her the most powerful tabby plumdrop in the whole game. Now at lvl 93, that wish finally came true! If there's something you really want, just believe, don't lose hope, work for what you want, and it will come to you. Anything is possible! ^.^