The Mith of Nirvana

XxArchmagexX - Dreamweaver

Yay u get to lvl 100 and suddenly u wanna start trying Nirvana then a fail player comes to u and says "u wont be able to do Nirvana cos all they want is meele classes with 5+ aps" omg FAIL guys dont play attention to them, I have done tons of Nirvi runs as wizard and i know 5aps damage dealers are usefull but ppl also like consisant (slower but much harder) damage also we got our frostblade buff with works great to buff the high aps players, and if there are not much meele classes on squad remember that Undine strike also gives attack bonus to psychick skills so dont allow these nubs to low down your progress I felt really bad the 1st time I heard this but then I decided that I wanna test my luck by miself because, after one s the arquitect of hes own destiny. So try your luck

Note: A good hint to get nirvi squad is to try to start one instead of just waiting to see one on faction or world chat take the lead and start your own squads

Aslo if there is a fail wizard reading this, who wants to start another useless forum discusion with demotivating comments for the new lvl 100s then go ahead but im already telling u, if u cant find a nirvi squad as wizard then its because u FAIL cos I have been on tons of them and alos I know a lot of wizards that like to spam it

Moog - Lost City

First of all what is "Mith of Nirvana".... and secondly... just no wizards will always be picked last for nirv along with psychics unless you have connections.

Not all money in this game is made from farming instances you just need to play smart.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Talk about a straw man argument. (if you don't know what that is, look it up).

Noone is saying wizards literally CAN'T get in ANY nirvana squad. Every wizard that has said what you are raging about has been in plenty of them, trust me.

What we ARE saying is this:

1. You won't be able to FARM Nirvana - at least not even 1/10th as effectively - as a 5 aps assassin/bm.

2. There are many, many squads that WILL NOT TAKE YOU on a Nirvana run, so picking up random squads to spam Nirvana runs isn't an option for you as it is with 5 aps classes.

3. Your Nirvana runs, simply by virtue of the fact that YOU are in them, will take sometimes twice as long as if you were replaced by a 5 aps character.

And show me anyone that likes it "slow and hard" (or whatever you were saying about your damage) as opposed to simply seeing the bosses drop fast. I'll be waiting for your answer b:surrender

Minimus_ - Sanctuary

It's not a myth. When I am on my 5aps bm ppl pm me for Nirv or TT but on the wiz they ask if I can come on bm often (what I stubbornly refuse sometimes lol) What doesnt mean that you can't farm Nirvana or TT as Wiz but you have to have more patience. I find the reward still tempting because playing wiz in TW is worth to play this awesome class.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Minimus_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

playing wiz in TW is worth to play this awesome class.

What I always say - wizards are the lamest class in the game which makes it all the more unfortunate that they are so much damn fun to play.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

What I always say - wizards are the lamest class in the game which makes it all the more unfortunate that they are so much damn fun to play.

A nonsequitor. If it were really that "lame" it wouldn't be that much fun. I won't go thru it again but the thread starter was RIGHT. If u want to go Nirvana, then start your own squad and just have a few friends. Living life in the random element is not life, that's zombie stuff. You think I care about impressing the innumerable random non-entities of cyber world? Might as well stand on a street corner and sing to the passing cars. Oh, they might notice you, but nobody cares.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

XxArchmagexX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yay u get to lvl 100 and suddenly u wanna start trying Nirvana then a fail player comes to u and says "u wont be able to do Nirvana cos all they want is meele classes with 5+ aps" omg FAIL guys dont play attention to them, I have done tons of Nirvi runs as wizard and i know 5aps damage dealers are usefull but ppl also like consisant (slower but much harder) damage also we got our frostblade buff with works great to buff the high aps players, and if there are not much meele classes on squad remember that Undine strike also gives attack bonus to psychick skills so dont allow these nubs to low down your progress I felt really bad the 1st time I heard this but then I decided that I wanna test my luck by miself because, after one s the arquitect of hes own destiny. So try your luck

Note: A good hint to get nirvi squad is to try to start one instead of just waiting to see one on faction or world chat take the lead and start your own squads

Aslo if there is a fail wizard reading this, who wants to start another useless forum discusion with demotivating comments for the new lvl 100s then go ahead but im already telling u, if u cant find a nirvi squad as wizard then its because u FAIL cos I have been on tons of them and alos I know a lot of wizards that like to spam it

no one says you're not going to find a Nirvana squad as a wiz. BUT it will be harder.
And if you're a 5 aps you can just solo it, without waiting for a squad or split profit.
I've been in Nirvana as wizard. It's a waste of everyone's time.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

A nonsequitor. If it were really that "lame" it wouldn't be that much fun. You think I care about impressing the innumerable random non-entities of cyber world?

Only if in order to play, you have to win. Lots of people play for fun, not to win.

If this is your personality, however, you will be even MORE unhappy with wizards 100+, I am certain. Although with Rank 8 available through a drive-thru window now, you really won't have the same experience we did as lvl 100 wizards up till now. PVP will be MUCH better for you now than prior to this sale.

You ARE getting your rank 8 badges now, aren't you? I am sure the sale will be back, but I wouldn't take the chance that I am wrong if I were you. Rank 8 weapon is toooo good not to get (well, I'm not getting it on this toon, but will have it on my sanctuary wizard).

After watching the rise of the tideborns, 5 aps, etc., this is the single BEST thing I've seen that might actually make wizards worth playing again, whether it requires a cat shop or not. Still doesn't help against well played sins, make us useful in nirvana, etc, etc, etc, but it will make us even better killing machines in group pk and TW.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

You think I care about impressing the innumerable random non-entities of cyber world?

What have I said that is supposed to be impressive? That I play a fail class? Yea, I'm sure LOADS of people will be impressed by that.

Fact is, not a few 100+ wizards have said virtually the same thing as I have. You will see in time we are right. And be less able to handle it than any, I'd recon.

Alias - Dreamweaver

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Only if in order to play, you have to win. Lots of people play for fun, not to win.

If this is your personality, however, you will be even MORE unhappy with wizards 100+, I am certain. Although with Rank 8 available through a drive-thru window now, you really won't have the same experience we did as lvl 100 wizards up till now. PVP will be MUCH better for you now than prior to this sale.

You ARE getting your rank 8 badges now, aren't you? I am sure the sale will be back, but I wouldn't take the chance that I am wrong if I were you. Rank 8 weapon is toooo good not to get (well, I'm not getting it on this toon, but will have it on my sanctuary wizard).

After watching the rise of the tideborns, 5 aps, etc., this is the single BEST thing I've seen that might actually make wizards worth playing again, whether it requires a cat shop or not. Still doesn't help against well played sins, make us useful in nirvana, etc, etc, etc, but it will make us even better killing machines in group pk and TW.



What have I said that is supposed to be impressive? That I play a fail class? Yea, I'm sure LOADS of people will be impressed by that.

Fact is, not a few 100+ wizards have said virtually the same thing as I have. You will see in time we are right. And be less able to handle it than any, I'd recon.

They get it too.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Only if in order to play, you have to win. Lots of people play for fun, not to win.

If this is your personality, however, you will be even MORE unhappy with wizards 100+, I am certain. Although with Rank 8 available through a drive-thru window now, you really won't have the same experience we did as lvl 100 wizards up till now. PVP will be MUCH better for you now than prior to this sale.

You ARE getting your rank 8 badges now, aren't you? I am sure the sale will be back, but I wouldn't take the chance that I am wrong if I were you. Rank 8 weapon is toooo good not to get (well, I'm not getting it on this toon, but will have it on my sanctuary wizard).

After watching the rise of the tideborns, 5 aps, etc., this is the single BEST thing I've seen that might actually make wizards worth playing again, whether it requires a cat shop or not. Still doesn't help against well played sins, make us useful in nirvana, etc, etc, etc, but it will make us even better killing machines in group pk and TW.



What have I said that is supposed to be impressive? That I play a fail class? Yea, I'm sure LOADS of people will be impressed by that.

Fact is, not a few 100+ wizards have said virtually the same thing as I have. You will see in time we are right. And be less able to handle it than any, I'd recon.

That's "reckon". Ok. You missed the point of my post. Re-read. It had nothing to do with your assertion that you play a fail class. On the other hand, it has everything to do with my assertion that I play the best class. And, I don't have to be a 5 aps sin to get in a squad because I've got friends. "Winning" is a term of art. Just what are you "winning"? Friends? If you're talking about winning in pvp, well ok. No problem. But, there's always somebody out there bigger than you and always will be.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

That's "reckon". Ok. You missed the point of my post. Re-read. It had nothing to do with your assertion that you play a fail class. On the other hand, it has everything to do with my assertion that I play the best class. And, I don't have to be a 5 aps sin to get in a squad because I've got friends. "Winning" is a term of art. Just what are you "winning"? Friends? If you're talking about winning in pvp, well ok. No problem. But, there's always somebody out there bigger than you and always will be.

None of this made any sense.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

None of this made any sense.

Yes it does, but u didn't understand my first post either....ijs. I'm more concerned about the rank sale though, than squabbling over the quality of our class. So let's just agree to disagree. I think wizards are awesome. You think they suck. There.

I don't like being manipulated into spending money on a game. This is what it feels like. Just to keep up with the middling we have to spend 80 bucks? It's nice that high quality is available, but if it's available, then of course the question becomes will it continue to be high quality? I've got doubts with this new expansion coming out. I've got a feeling this is a money grab. Sooo...I'll just continue with my cheap garb and lunar wep and see how it goes until everything settles down.

_Leif - Lost City

I just wanted to say, since noone brought it up.

You know the word "myth" is spelled with a "y" right?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I think wizards are awesome. You think they suck. There.

No. You think wizards are awesome for all purposes. I think they are awesome for limited purposes.

Most agree with me.

There.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I've got a feeling this is a money grab.

Well, yes, but the money grab isn't at the Rank 8 level. Its at the Rank 9 level. Its just in order to make you spend $ on the rank 9 medals, etc., they have to get most people to Rank 8 first.

Rank 8 is the real deal. It will always be significantly better than the other options we had until now. And the only "new" thing that will likely be there in the near future is a perhaps cheaper Rank 9 and warsoul, but those will always cost FAR more than $73.

If you are waiting for $73 Rank 9 or better, I think you will be waiting for a long time.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I've got a feeling this is a money grab. Sooo...I'll just continue with my cheap garb and lunar wep and see how it goes until everything settles down.

Thats what I am doing - keeping my gear.

Course, I have another end game wiz on another server that is now Rank 8 so I get super wiz TW fun on 2 servers for a fraction of what I had to spend on this bozo b:victory

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

No. You think wizards are awesome for all purposes. I think they are awesome for limited purposes.

Most agree with me.

There.



Well, yes, but the money grab isn't at the Rank 8 level. Its at the Rank 9 level. Its just in order to make you spend $ on the rank 9 medals, etc., they have to get most people to Rank 8 first.

Rank 8 is the real deal. It will always be significantly better than the other options we had until now. And the only "new" thing that will likely be there in the near future is a perhaps cheaper Rank 9 and warsoul, but those will always cost FAR more than $73.

If you are waiting for $73 Rank 9 or better, I think you will be waiting for a long time.



Thats what I am doing - keeping my gear.

Course, I have another end game wiz on another server that is now Rank 8 so I get super wiz TW fun on 2 servers for a fraction of what I had to spend on this bozo b:victory

Well, I'm already rank 7, soo....I changed my mind and gonna get rank 8. What can I say?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Well, I'm already rank 7, soo....I changed my mind and gonna get rank 8. What can I say?

Anyone who wants to matter as a wizard at level 100 better get rank 8 rep now, no matter what their level. I think the sale will come around again, but doubt it can go cheaper than less than one cent ($0.009) per wraith officer badge, after all, so there's little harm in buying now and possibly a years delay till next christmas to get the same price.

And I just looked. Rank 8 weapon unrefined has higher damage than a +9 scaredevil and twice the crit hit %. I knew it was good, but didn't know it was that good.

Jiblet - Sanctuary

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Anyone who wants to matter as a wizard at level 100 better get rank 8 rep now, no matter what their level. I think the sale will come around again, but doubt it can go cheaper than less than one cent ($0.009) per wraith officer badge, after all, so there's little harm in buying now and possibly a years delay till next christmas to get the same price.

And I just looked. Rank 8 weapon unrefined has higher damage than a +9 scaredevil and twice the crit hit %. I knew it was good, but didn't know it was that good.

Thanks, but I'll still with my lowly Nirvana weapon until rank 5000 becomes availableb:laugh

Shevanel - Sanctuary

Maybe waiting a while Jib.

And still, unfortunately your "lowly nirvana weapon" (I haven't seen it's stats in a while) doesn't have as much atk as an equally refined r8 (afaik from Mendy's thread - haven't done the research, nor read the forums enough for comparisons)

Kinda a pity really... Either way, we all know you not only ****, but you have the gear to survive R8/Nirvana Archers, sins and 5.0 BMs easy.

EDIT: Excuse my forgetfulness.

I just remembered in that thread it was pointed out that the G15 wep was wrongly coded or whatever in pwdatabase, and is meant to have more attack then it does.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Jiblet - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thanks, but I'll still with my lowly Nirvana weapon until rank 5000 becomes availableb:laugh

Yea, and im keeping my tt99 +10. I wasn't really talking about anyone that already had their weapon, certainly not someone already with a nirvana weapon.

But for those that don't (such as Pearl whose not 100 yet), you'd better get rank 8.

I am not waiting for Rank 5000. But a good rank 9 sale or 500k raptures . . . .

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Yes it does, but u didn't understand my first post either....ijs. I'm more concerned about the rank sale though, than squabbling over the quality of our class. So let's just agree to disagree. I think wizards are awesome. You think they suck. There.

I don't like being manipulated into spending money on a game. This is what it feels like. Just to keep up with the middling we have to spend 80 bucks? It's nice that high quality is available, but if it's available, then of course the question becomes will it continue to be high quality? I've got doubts with this new expansion coming out. I've got a feeling this is a money grab. Sooo...I'll just continue with my cheap garb and lunar wep and see how it goes until everything settles down.

I agree. I heard with new expansion new gear will come and make rank 8 worthless. that's why they selling it now for cheap.b:chuckle

Shevanel - Sanctuary

The way I've been looking at it -

Even though Rank8 will become obsolete, it's amazingly affordable for most people, depending on which means you aquire it. Having it will enable farming for the new gear a faster process. Instead of 80% of the population using tt99/99gold and 20% using lunar, a large minority will be using rank8, and will make farming easier, and for mage classes, fairer.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »

The way I've been looking at it -

Even though Rank8 will become obsolete, it's amazingly affordable for most people, depending on which means you aquire it. Having it will enable farming for the new gear a faster process. Instead of 80% of the population using tt99/99gold and 20% using lunar, a large minority will be using rank8, and will make farming easier, and for mage classes, fairer.

Question is, is it worth to spend 70 bucks?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Well, if it makes Rank 8 worthless, then it will make nirvana weapons worthless also unless you also recast to get the attack levels. Rank 8 is clearly better than TT99, TT99 gold and lunar (the "used to be" end game weapons of choice for most wizards), and is as good (or darn near as good) as 1st round nirvana.

Worth $70? I don't know. Did you refine a TT99 or lunar weapon to +7/+8 before? This is supposedly (can't open pw calc from work) cheaper and better unrefined. Rank 8 with even a cheap +4/+5 should kick the pants off a +8 anything other than nirvana.

So for new 100 wizards, again, there is no real substitute at this point for Rank 8. Its clearly the best choice for all but those willing to put 200m-300m coin into their weapons (even at inflated gold prices, $73 for rank 8 in comparison is a mere 60m coin) BEFORE refining costs. AND you get a g12 top (with channeling) and pants and a 4% crit ring.

I really don't know how anyone can even be thinking this over at this point.

Pearlwood - Lost City

Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »

The way I've been looking at it -

Even though Rank8 will become obsolete, it's amazingly affordable for most people, depending on which means you aquire it. Having it will enable farming for the new gear a faster process. Instead of 80% of the population using tt99/99gold and 20% using lunar, a large minority will be using rank8, and will make farming easier, and for mage classes, fairer.

Well, I'm already R.7 so naturally I will get R.8. I suspect R8 will become obsolete, but the facts are facts...it's better than what I would have had by a long shot, cause I don't do uber $... and even if I could, the game would then cease to be fun. I mean, the R7 Marshal's ring by itself is quite an item, can only imagine the R8, R9 stuff and beyond.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I suspect R8 will become obsolete.

Er, don't "suspect" it. KNOW IT. The people that raged the most over this were the people that thought that their gear was forever good, or that the Rank 8 gear they acquired prior to the sale was super rare and powerful and just for them.

This game is ever changing. The first people to get any of the stuff in the packs (prior to the packs coming out) certainly felt the same way when all someone had to do is spend $1, click and get lucky to get the same gear.

This is no different. Its just the people that were getting op opening the packs and (god forbid) using the tokens to get rank 8 to beat down those people playing prior to the release of the packs are now the ones boo boo boo'ing the hardest when another group of players is basically given the means to do the same to them.

It's happened before. It's happening now. And it will happen again. Don't suspect it. KNOW IT.

Oh, and btw, Rank 8 is already obsolete in terms of stats (recast nirvana, Rank 9), its just those things are astronomically more expensive now than Rank 8. Which is why I said, all we have to do is wait for the Rank 9 sale. Be it this summer or next Christmas, you can bet your bottom dollar (and many will) that its coming. Its just a matter of when.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

can only imagine the R8, R9 stuff and beyond.

Don't have to imagine. Rank 9 is here.

Pearlwood - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Er, don't "suspect" it. KNOW IT. The people that raged the most over this were the people that thought that their gear was forever good, or that the Rank 8 gear they acquired prior to the sale was super rare and powerful and just for them.

This game is ever changing. The first people to get any of the stuff in the packs (prior to the packs coming out) certainly felt the same way when all someone had to do is spend $1, click and get lucky to get the same gear.

This is no different. Its just the people that were getting op opening the packs and (god forbid) using the tokens to get rank 8 to beat down those people playing prior to the release of the packs are now the ones boo boo boo'ing the hardest when another group of players is basically given the means to do the same to them.

It's happened before. It's happening now. And it will happen again. Don't suspect it. KNOW IT.

Oh, and btw, Rank 8 is already obsolete in terms of stats (recast nirvana, Rank 9), its just those things are astronomically more expensive now than Rank 8. Which is why I said, all we have to do is wait for the Rank 9 sale. Be it this summer or next Christmas, you can bet your bottom dollar (and many will) that its coming. Its just a matter of when.



Don't have to imagine. Rank 9 is here.

I don't KNOW IT until it happens. lol I suspect it. But, according to you and many posters here, things can only get better for wizards, right? Any change is good because according to you wizards were gimped, nerfed, squashed, quashed, screwed, spewed, bludgeoned, terrorized, traumatized, persecuted, prosecuted, crippled, and flogged. Our class was subjected to a grave injustice. Well, I guess I'm happy then. Somebody up there actually likes us. woot!


edited for poetical flourishment

Jiblet - Sanctuary

Couple of comments on posts made above:

1 - you are 100% right that if i was a new lvl 100 wizzy I'd be going r8....if you haven't already got a nirvana weapon it would *almost8 be crazy to get one. To be honest, if I was r8 now I'd seriously be considering liquidating all the assets in my bank and raising the coin for r9, but I just can't be bothered until I know what is going to come next

2 - We can all make educated guesses at what will happen next (my vote also goes for a r9 sale, probably somewhere around April at the latest) but we don't know for sure. personally I'm praying that something comes out as a step on from nirvana that will require a nirvana weapon to make b:laugh. Hey, I can hope......

3 - Shev, I may have decent gear but r9 weapons are going to still fux me over....I was testing with my brother (r9 weaponed sin) and he can have me for breakfast in a 1v1 before I can do anything to stop him, even fullbuffed with 17.5k pdef and 12.5k hp. Thankfully he's just a freakb:pleased

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I don't KNOW IT until it happens.

You miss my point again, apparently. IT has happened.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

But, according to you and many posters here, things can only get better for wizards, right?

Nope. My complaint was never anything but 1 vs 1 (and even small group) pk with wizards AND pve farming (useless in Nirvana). I challenge you to find any post by me saying anything inconsistent with that.

And for those two aspects of the game, Rank 8 changes little. It helps you compete a bit better, sure, because it does more damage and gives us some easy to get armor pieces with an extra few hundred mdef.

But our weakness wasn't really raw damage. It was lack of stuns, long channel/cast times (the -6% on the chest helps, but only a fraction of a second), no movement skill, no real self buffs or party buffs, the fact that alot of classes can chase almost as well as we kite, if not better (archer, bm, sin, veno), psychics and archers have better range for some skills (one thing that made me seriously consider demon as opposed to sage), etc. None of these things are mitigated by Rank 8.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Well, I guess I'm happy then. Somebody up there actually likes us. woot!

Has nothing to do with liking us. EVERYONE gets Rank 8, don't forget. And as we get Rank 8, SURPRISE!!!! Cash shopped sins get Rank 9. Its now to the point that you need to get expel off first AND have the sin make a mistake in order to beat them.

No, all in all, cheap Rank 8, Rank 9 available for just cash, cheap orb sales, cheap charms, all just made our job much, much harder in pk in the long run.

If you run out and get rank 8 and refine to +10 before everyone else has a chance to get rank 8 and rank 9 and refine theirs to +10, you can have a few months of fun with your Rank 8 wiz yet.

But it won't be long till everyone catches up to you. And psychics, for one, with their better stuns, cast time, buffs, etc are going to be much more challenging.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

You miss my point again, apparently. IT has happened.



Nope. My complaint was never anything but 1 vs 1 (and even small group) pk with wizards AND pve farming (useless in Nirvana). I challenge you to find any post by me saying anything inconsistent with that.

And for those two aspects of the game, Rank 8 changes little. It helps you compete a bit better, sure, because it does more damage and gives us some easy to get armor pieces with an extra few hundred mdef.

But our weakness wasn't really raw damage. It was lack of stuns, long channel/cast times (the -6% on the chest helps, but only a fraction of a second), no movement skill, no real self buffs or party buffs, the fact that alot of classes can chase almost as well as we kite, if not better (archer, bm, sin, veno), psychics and archers have better range for some skills (one thing that made me seriously consider demon as opposed to sage), etc. None of these things are mitigated by Rank 8.




Has nothing to do with liking us. EVERYONE gets Rank 8, don't forget. And as we get Rank 8, SURPRISE!!!! Cash shopped sins get Rank 9. Its now to the point that you need to get expel off first AND have the sin make a mistake in order to beat them.

No, all in all, cheap Rank 8, Rank 9 available for just cash, cheap orb sales, cheap charms, all just made our job much, much harder in pk in the long run.

If you run out and get rank 8 and refine to +10 before everyone else has a chance to get rank 8 and rank 9 and refine theirs to +10, you can have a few months of fun with your Rank 8 wiz yet.

But it won't be long till everyone catches up to you. And psychics, for one, with their better stuns, cast time, buffs, etc are going to be much more challenging.

I must agree. Unfortunately you are 110% right.

Jiblet - Sanctuary

Something has changed a little 1v1 in the average wizzy's favour.

Due to a lot of wizzies finding it hard to farm their eq as you head towards endgame there does seem to be a far lower percentage of 100+ wizzies with decent eq than say sin's, BM's or other 5aps chars. The ability to cheaply obtain (either via rl cash or ig coin) rank 8 does benefit wizards more than it benefits classes that find it easier to farm comparable levels of gear.

Put it this way - how many nirvana'd up wizzies did you see compared to 5aps BM/Sin/archers two weeks ago?

The change bringing increased ease to obtain R8 has had far less of a positive impact on those chars when compared to the average 100+ wiz, meaning that although the r8 giveaway benefits all it actually benefits some classes to a greater extent, wiz being one of these.

As for the other comments about our lack of skills etc, I generally agree although not all is accurate (I'm pretty sure I'd consider distance shrink as a movement skill for example).

Psychs tho.....at least on Sanctuary I don't see them as a major worry. May be different on other servers but it's still sin's and that odd uber BM that bother me (Damn you chrisn....damn you to hell if you're reading this b:laugh)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Sorry OP but undine and frostblade are not going to make up for shoddy dmg output per second.

A few wizards in the first page had it right (before this turned into a typical "QQrank8QQcashshop" topic) when they said you'll be fine if you have connections. Generally I won't go with a wizard with my cleric or BM doing a random Nirvana squad (only do those when my wife isn't on, otherwise, we just do Nirvana alone), and it doesn't help that most wizards I went with don't know how to run chests and tend to **** up more than any other class in Nirvana, and my 100 wizard couldn't even beg for a squad in the same fashion. However, I do have some good friends who are wizards and I'd go with them because (aside of, duh, being friends) Nirvana is not the only instance in this game and wizards are quite useful in other areas, so it wouldn't be smart to burn bridges to that degree.