Items on sale cost more than they do off sale = GG

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, players set the market price of gold, but it is in direct reaction to the PWI controlled sales. Players have very little effect on the system.

Once the collective player base has determined the values of ingame items, it's a relatively slow process to shift those values. On the other hand, PWI can manipulate the availability of said items and dramatically alter their value, on the drop of a hat. This is exactly what has just happened when they dropped the price on Tiger packs. It has nothing to do with the holiday season or people wanting to spend money.

People put Gold up for auction because they want ingame coins. When a Tiger pack contains a base 230k worth of npcable wealth, halving the Gold cost of a Tiger pack effectively doubles the coin value per Gold spent. The sale directly influences the Gold to Coin transfer ratio. Players have nothing to do with that shift, it is entirely in the hands of PWI.

False. Just to note that a sale like this, once again, is directed at people who buy zen. Why would PWI make a sale for people who don't? A person who buys zen isn't going to turn around and sell it for coins then buy the packs from a catshop. How dumb is that?

PWI cannot manipulate the availability of said items and dramatically alter their value because they a) do not set the price of gold or packs, b) do not make people push "o" and determine how many packs a person can afford to buy, and c) they do not make packs available outside the boutique.

The gold trade only correlates to packs in the situation of an F2P player wanting to buy gold via AH, whether it be for buying the pack with the intention of using it, or re-selling it. The holiday is naturally when people spend more -- hence why so many sales are placed for the holidays and Black Friday in every single market there is to buy **** from. This is mimicked in MMO's. However, packs are not the only thing on sale -- look at the list. The demand for gold is extremely high because players want to buy gold as they see other players opening packs or buying d.orbs and think they need to as well. It's due to a blatantly hedonistic playerbase. Taste is a major influence in economics in general, but especially so here. Even so, players have set the price as to what they will buy a gold at, and the fact that players have the option to determine the quantity supplied of gold and packs (neither of which PWI determines) means players directly affect the supply and demand of both gold and packs. This isn't PWI's fault. They try to influence things but the determinant is what price people will buy gold or packs at. It's interesting how many people blame a business so extensively for the player-to-player economics that occurs.

volst

There's no supply and demand. It's just a couple people buying all the cheap gold and reselling for higher. People who have no clue think that's the normal price and the cycle starts. Last time I checked there's over 300 gold being sold and less than 200 buying. Almost 100 buying are 100k less than top buying price, so they aren't really in a hurry or in need of it.

There is still a ton of tiger packs in shops that haven't sold from the previous non-thanksgiving-sale period. No reason to buy gold for them from auction considering it costs more because of fees.

Dragon orbs dont npc for anything. So why should gold prices be compensated just because it's on sale?

There's gonna be more sales in xmas and new years eve. Stop the complaining already. Just quit and celebrate the holidays like your supposed to.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

volst wrote: »

Dragon orbs dont npc for anything. So why should gold prices be compensated just because it's on sale?

Because they have a set typical price. Typical price for 10 is 2.7 gold. When they're on sale, they're 1.7 gold. This sale they are 1.35 gold. Why would altering their price effect the value of gold? lol Really, you need to ask that? Because they are needed by many people. When all of a sudden something needed at a set price has it's price reduced by 50%? Demand to get them at this sale price prompts people to buy up the lower priced supply of gold until it's exhausted and until gold equals roughly what they would have to pay for the item at normal price is equalized. Perception that you are still getting a deal may even push prices of gold higher and temporarily become overvalued.

However, there are far too many people who know how to use the most simple functions of a calculator to figure out if it's better to buy Dragon Orbs at %50 off with high gold prices or just wait till the sale is over.

And really, Dragon Orb Oceans on sale for 50 gold? You know at non-sale prices, it would cost 370 gold to make one out of 1* orbs? 232 gold at 1* typical sale price. And even with 1* orbs at 50% off, they would still cost you 185 gold. So don't think there aren't a bunch of high level farmers trying to buy as many as they can. Even at 800k gold, they're still cheaper than buying them at 50 gold then they are when gold is 550k and they sell at 75 gold.

If you can't figure out how that would affect supply or demand of gold directly, then I don't know what to say.

Meeeeowwwwww - Raging Tide

Haha yea, I agree this 2x drop is too recent from the last one, >.<, well, guess more TT Farming? Haha, but, still TONS of mats I still have to sell from the last 2x, and gold is crazy O.O;;

But I like it

Vikapov - Sanctuary

I kinda have a feeling PW is benefitting cashshoppers.
Normal price in coins for orbs when tigerpacks are out of boutique is like 95k without sales.
Now 100k+ and 50% off b:cry b:cry
Fake sales b:sad

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Vikapov - Sanctuary wrote: »

I kinda have a feeling PW is benefitting cashshoppers.

They completely are.

They're devaluing the worth of in-game coins and raising the value of real currency.

Myrrmidonna - Dreamweaver

Vikapov - Sanctuary wrote: »

I kinda have a feeling PW is benefitting cashshoppers.

Why shouldn't they? Cashshopers are the ones who're paying their wages. That's what all F2P games are about when you get down to it b:surrender

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

volst wrote: »

There's no supply and demand. It's just a couple people buying all the cheap gold and reselling for higher. People who have no clue think that's the normal price and the cycle starts. Last time I checked there's over 300 gold being sold and less than 200 buying. Almost 100 buying are 100k less than top buying price, so they aren't really in a hurry or in need of it.

There is still a ton of tiger packs in shops that haven't sold from the previous non-thanksgiving-sale period. No reason to buy gold for them from auction considering it costs more because of fees.

No offense, but you're unaware of the facts.

I bought and sold 600 Tiger Packs yesterday for a profit of ~9 million and then purchased 270 more Gold to repeat the process. I'm sure many other Pack merchants on my server had similar sales and purchased similar amounts of Gold.

Had I sold that 270 Gold in the AH at a high selling price, then purchased 270 more Gold to replace it at a low buying price I would have lost money.

If somebody out there is actually making profit buying/selling Gold in the AH directly, then congratulations to them, because I've never been able to do it with anything more than maybe 10 Gold bought/sold per day, and even then the profits were slim.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why would PWI make a sale for people who don't?

They kinda did, actually. This sale was perfect for F2P people like myself who stockpiled
Gold back when it was selling for ~360k.

Even if the in-game market somehow magically disappeared and every other player stopped putting Gold into the game, I still would have earned a profit thanks to the Tiger Pack sale, since the NPC value of the items in the Packs alone are worth ~515k per Gold.

Roughly speaking, I'd estimate about 25% of my current total wealth has been because I've correctly understood and predicted supply and demand forces in the game slightly better than most (but not all) of my competitors. However, the vast majority of my wealth has come from just correctly predicting what PWI is going to do with their cash-shop sales. So yeah, supply and demand is important, but PWI's actions are what I care about more than anything else when it comes to earning a profit as a merchant.

MrMime - Raging Tide

I am a GM and I refuse to comment/touch this controversial topic that actually have some meaningful substance.

Instead, I will browse forums for some unimportant topics (commenting on cute pictures of kittens, saying thank you to mod-loving ppl like RedRose's kissup attempt, and trying to find reasons to close down this thread), be back soon with the hammer!

storehammy

No MrMime.
Your request for the ban hamster's ban hammer has been denied.
You has insufficient credentials to acquire the ban hammer.
b:surrender

Axelire - Heavens Tear

b:surrender

Too tired to care. Just play the game and take advantage of the "market forces".

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

They kinda did, actually. This sale was perfect for F2P people like myself who stockpiled
Gold back when it was selling for ~360k.

Even if the in-game market somehow magically disappeared and every other player stopped putting Gold into the game, I still would have earned a profit thanks to the Tiger Pack sale, since the NPC value of the items in the Packs alone are worth ~515k per Gold.

Roughly speaking, I'd estimate about 25% of my current total wealth has been because I've correctly understood and predicted supply and demand forces in the game slightly better than most (but not all) of my competitors. However, the vast majority of my wealth has come from just correctly predicting what PWI is going to do with their cash-shop sales. So yeah, supply and demand is important, but PWI's actions are what I care about more than anything else when it comes to earning a profit as a merchant.

Problem is I'd say 99% of F2P players have next to no idea about marketing strategies besides the basic "look at AH for price check on spare item, pop into catshop". Most players want to play a mmo to socialize, level, fight in dungeons and w/e, not sit in a west arch catshop for several months. If I look in my faction I see maybe 2-3 players with skills in marketing out of 200.

So you managed to manipulate a market very few others did and get rich with a lot of calculations and good predictions. Grats. Fact remains the game is still far too expensive for everyone else who didn't. Advanced marketing should not be a requirement to do well in a mmo.

And pack merchanting definitely isn't available to the majority either. Can you imagine if 100 players turned to pack merchanting at your level? 27000 gold demanded a day and 60000 packs sitting in catshops. The competition in the market is already bad enough as it is. O_o

On a separate note, 750k gold in sanc atm isn't bad. If orbs are 50% off and gold was 570k when they were full price, they definitely do seem cheaper than they were.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

So you managed to manipulate a market very few others did and get rich with a lot of calculations and good predictions. Grats. Fact remains the game is still far too expensive for everyone else who didn't. Advanced marketing should not be a requirement to do well in a mmo.

I agree with most of what you're saying, except that it's not "advanced" marketing skills that are lacking. It's "basic".

From talking to various players I'd estimate that roughly 95% use Monkey Economics. They spend whatever they have on whatever they want the instant they want it.

The only reason merchants make money is because we're doing really obvious things that other people just aren't doing.