Items on sale cost more than they do off sale = GG

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TheDan - Sanctuary
TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
edited November 2010 in General Discussion
http://i56.tinypic.com/2s61nkk.jpg

With current gold prices, it pretty much costs more to buy orbs/packs during the sale, than when they're off sale.

Example: To buy 50 packs

800 x 22.5 = 18M (on sale)

380 x 45 = 17.1M (off sale)

I'm just baffled by the logic behind 2x drops as well as these sales. TBH it's pretty much more profitable to farm on 1x with a stable market, than to farm on 2x drops with a flooded market. The market is still hurting from the last 2x drop event... and to make things worse, to have both sales and 2x drops simultaneously, the halved money farmed is even more de-valued due to the buying power of coin --- > gold prices doubling from 380k to almost 800K here.

TL;DR =

Farming on 1x > Farming on 2x

Buying off sale > Buying on sale

Discuss.
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Post edited by TheDan - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    I agree, especially since 2x starts in about 13 hrs, Nirvana and TT will surely be overfarmed dropping cannys to like 350K or near it.

    Gold is 800K - 900K, buy and sell respectively on HT atm, just need to give it time to see if this is the new average.

    GMs, can we have a response to this?
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  • sleepcat
    sleepcat Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Well, it was probably their intentions from the start. It's just bad PR for them to admit it was their plan, so they will never actually say it. Pretty ingenious strategy.
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  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    sleepcat wrote: »
    Pretty ingenious strategy.

    Very.
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Cheaper mat prices + higher gold = people charging to buy mats (in turn raise mat prices by a little from higher demand). It's not rocket science b:bye.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Yes, they want bucketloads of cash being charged while they're away eating their TD dinners.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Gryphyyn - Heavens Tear
    Gryphyyn - Heavens Tear Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    "Bank and Tank" baby....this is how these games are developed. Better to leave while you're still ahead.

    In the short term, the game will generate revenue; however, in the long run, they will have shortage of new players. Definitely bad PR.

    Time for this game to get a respirator.
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  • Roseary - Sanctuary
    Roseary - Sanctuary Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    I vote they leave 2x drop on for a long time. Prices on things need to go down anyway while gold prices should go up.
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  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Roseary - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I vote the leave 2x drop on for a long tim. Prices on things need to go down anyway while gold prices should go up.

    That might do more harm than good. Sure you can get your gears done, but if you are farming for money, you don't benefit much really.
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  • Deora - Lost City
    Deora - Lost City Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That might do more harm than good. Sure you can get your gears done, but if you are farming for money, you don't benefit much really.

    2x drops, you get 2 of whatever you would've only gotten one of otherwise

    Prices drop 50%ish

    You have 2 items instead of 1, 100%

    I see no loss

    I never understood why people hated 2x drops... learn to use it to your advantage idiots... (not pointing directly at you)
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

    Gold is 800K - 900K, buy and sell respectively on HT atm, just need to give it time to see if this is the new average.

    What the . . b:shutup . . hm maybe it's time to change and download soon. b:bye
    Though maybe i am come back when earthguard come out or economy stable again.
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  • Veritas_ - Raging Tide
    Veritas_ - Raging Tide Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    http://i56.tinypic.com/2s61nkk.jpg

    With current gold prices, it pretty much costs more to buy orbs/packs during the sale, than when they're off sale.

    Example: To buy 50 packs

    800 x 22.5 = 18M (on sale)

    380 x 45 = 17.1M (off sale)

    I'm just baffled by the logic behind 2x drops as well as these sales. TBH it's pretty much more profitable to farm on 1x with a stable market, than to farm on 2x drops with a flooded market. The market is still hurting from the last 2x drop event... and to make things worse, to have both sales and 2x drops simultaneously, the halved money farmed is even more de-valued due to the buying power of coin --- > gold prices doubling from 380k to almost 800K here.

    TL;DR =

    Farming on 1x > Farming on 2x

    Buying off sale > Buying on sale

    Discuss.

    my 4th steps today
    1.logged in
    2.waitied til sl is off
    3.checked gold price
    4.uninstalled the game
  • NightRage - Raging Tide
    NightRage - Raging Tide Posts: 1,582 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Veritas_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    my 4th steps today
    1.logged in
    2.waitied til sl is off
    3.checked gold price
    4.uninstalled the game

    Aww but you've already spent 10s of thousands! What a waste. You finally could have moved up to a 2nd-world country with that money.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Deora - Lost City wrote: »
    2x drops, you get 2 of whatever you would've only gotten one of otherwise

    Prices drop 50%ish

    You have 2 items instead of 1, 100%

    I see no loss

    I never understood why people hated 2x drops... learn to use it to your advantage idiots... (not pointing directly at you)

    It devalues the item and even after 2x drops is over, the price remains lower than it was before 2x. It may eventually get close to what it was before, but the market has effectively been devalued, so if all you do is farming during 2x and then sell when drops are back to normal, you make out a little better... overall it's a bad thing.
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  • _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary
    _DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,294 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    sleepcat wrote: »
    Well, it was probably their intentions from the start. It's just bad PR for them to admit it was their plan, so they will never actually say it. Pretty ingenious strategy.

    Most likely.

    When gold hits a high total in a short space of time, most peoples reaction is "OMG think of how much I'd get if I charged and sold the gold!" So people immediately charge a ton of zen to sell, and PWI get incredibly rich from it.
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »
    It devalues the item and even after 2x drops is over, the price remains lower than it was before 2x. It may eventually get close to what it was before, but the market has effectively been devalued, so if all you do is farming during 2x and then sell when drops are back to normal, you make out a little better... overall it's a bad thing.

    Yeah, skaidraid edges went from 800k down to 150k last 2x. Atm they're back up to 250k, but I forsee them going back down to 100k. The market values don't recover back to their original values essentially. Markets flooded and unstable; prices just don't rebound.
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  • Jhalil - Heavens Tear
    Jhalil - Heavens Tear Posts: 865 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    The gold price is horrible I admit (*stares at MsE). But the double drops come at a perfect timing for me, I need to farm my Nirvana pants, so the lower the cannies the more it benefits me in this situation. Of course after I get my nirvana pants I'll be all "Q_Q NIRVANA MATS SO CHEAP NOT ENOUGH MONEY IN DOING IT T_T" But until then, just go with the flow.

    Known, you should know by now that adding "Can a GM reply to this" or something like that doesn't actually work :x
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  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Deora - Lost City wrote: »
    2x drops, you get 2 of whatever you would've only gotten one of otherwise

    Prices drop 50%ish

    You have 2 items instead of 1, 100%

    I see no loss

    I never understood why people hated 2x drops... learn to use it to your advantage idiots... (not pointing directly at you)
    Except for when double drops ends and prices stay the same.





    As for me I got lucky. I saw the announcement almost as soon as it was posted. Immediately took the 75mil in my bank I had been saving up, bought as much gold as I could afford at 540k each. I waited for the sale to start and bought a ton of d orbs.


    Now I'm sitting on 1k d orbs for 75mil, gonna resell in a week at 120k each
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  • volst
    volst Posts: 180
    edited November 2010
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    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Items on sale cost more than they do off sale = GG

    That's more of a problem on the player's part. First half of people greedy enough to buy all the cheap ones and resell for higher, and the other half being stupid enough to buy them at the higher price to let the first half think it's fine.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Veritas_ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    my 4th steps today
    1.logged in
    2.waitied til sl is off
    3.checked gold price
    4.uninstalled the game
    And nothing of value was lost.
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  • ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver
    ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,457 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    my 4 steps today

    1)wake up
    2)check the game updates
    3)????
    4)PROFIT!!

    thnx pwib:thanksb:thanks
  • KingThis - Heavens Tear
    KingThis - Heavens Tear Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Dont blame the GM's blame the players that actually set the price at that :P
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    KingThis - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Dont blame the GM's blame the players that actually set the price at that :P

    You really can't be that naive...
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  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    While gold prices are much higher than they usually are, and will likely go up even more in the next few days, they are in fact the right price, because that's what people will pay for gold. If people would not pay a higher price it would not sell, and the prices would go down so sellers could get rid of it -- or they'd smartly hold onto it until prices rise again, but either way the price would go down. Really this should be a relative lesson of laissez-faire economics. Unfortunately, what most people want, especially buyers, is their price of gold, so they QQQQQQQQQ about high gold prices and unintelligently blame GM's or PWI for the price, when it's the price other players will pay for gold that determines how much gold, and other things, will cost.
  • Moog - Lost City
    Moog - Lost City Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Except for when double drops ends and prices stay the same.





    As for me I got lucky. I saw the announcement almost as soon as it was posted. Immediately took the 75mil in my bank I had been saving up, bought as much gold as I could afford at 540k each. I waited for the sale to start and bought a ton of d orbs.


    Now I'm sitting on 1k d orbs for 75mil, gonna resell in a week at 120k each



    You really think people are gonna buy them 120k each a week later after this event? D orb prices are gonna be quite a lot lower for at least 2 or 3 weeks after this.


    I only managed to stock up around 36 gold last night at 590k. I tried to use 90 mil to stuck up but I guess I got massively overbided when I went to sleep. I feel that tiger packs are better to invest in since people are constantly buying them prices usually don't stay down after a sale.
  • Darksylph - Heavens Tear
    Darksylph - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    While gold prices are much higher than they usually are, and will likely go up even more in the next few days, they are in fact the right price, because that's what people will pay for gold. If people would not pay a higher price it would not sell, and the prices would go down so sellers could get rid of it -- or they'd smartly hold onto it until prices rise again, but either way the price would go down. Really this should be a relative lesson of laissez-faire economics. Unfortunately, what most people want, especially buyers, is their price of gold, so they QQQQQQQQQ about high gold prices and unintelligently blame GM's or PWI for the price, when it's the price other players will pay for gold that determines how much gold, and other things, will cost.

    Gold price is determined solely by the HIGHEST value thing, per price, sold. Thats the packs;

    Tiger packs at 1g. Gold = 450k
    Tiger packs at 75s. Gold = 600k (450k per pack)
    Tiger packs at 50s. Gold = 900k (450k per pack)

    Can you be so naive as to not see that PWEs manipulation of this 1 items controls the market price on gold? PWE is DIRECTLY responsible, 100% for this.
  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Moog - Lost City wrote: »
    You really think people are gonna buy them 120k each a week later after this event? D orb prices are gonna be quite a lot lower for at least 2 or 3 weeks after this.


    I only managed to stock up around 36 gold last night at 590k. I tried to use 90 mil to stuck up but I guess I got massively overbided when I went to sleep. I feel that tiger packs and the 10 star orbs are better to invest in since people are constantly buying them prices usually don't stay down after a sale.
    That's for you.


    On Raging Tide there is absolutely no market for dragon orbs.


    Finding someone selling them is extremely rare, almost never happens.

    I will have absolutely zero competition in selling them.
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    While gold prices are much higher than they usually are, and will likely go up even more in the next few days, they are in fact the right price, because that's what people will pay for gold. If people would not pay a higher price it would not sell, and the prices would go down so sellers could get rid of it -- or they'd smartly hold onto it until prices rise again, but either way the price would go down. Really this should be a relative lesson of laissez-faire economics. Unfortunately, what most people want, especially buyers, is their price of gold, so they QQQQQQQQQ about high gold prices and unintelligently blame GM's or PWI for the price, when it's the price other players will pay for gold that determines how much gold, and other things, will cost.

    One thing you're not factoring is that PWI is setting a relative value for that gold by what they are offering for sale. Unlike any real economy, PWI's sales directly affect the actual value of gold, and the gold goes up or down according to what they chose to value it at. Examples include Chest of Coins and packs.

    To say that the gold price isn't directly influenced by what decisions PWI makes is absurd.
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  • Regenbogen - Lost City
    Regenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    gold 1kk b:surprised

    time to make moneyZ b:cool
    i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Gold price is determined solely by the HIGHEST value thing, per price, sold. Thats the packs;

    Tiger packs at 1g. Gold = 450k
    Tiger packs at 75s. Gold = 600k (450k per pack)
    Tiger packs at 50s. Gold = 900k (450k per pack)

    Can you be so naive as to not see that PWEs manipulation of this 1 items controls the market price on gold? PWE is DIRECTLY responsible, 100% for this.
    You keep looking at PWI sales, and while that can influence the severity at how many people want to buy gold, this has always been the same regardless of packs. You need to look at how naive you are -- see below:

    Look in your HT auction house. All day yesterday there was tenfold buyers than sellers, and gold was at 650K. Less sellers, less supply. Less supply means less quantity, coupled with higher demand, means higher prices. Now gold prices are 800K to reflect the demand for gold. Gold is a very elastic good. Notice how tokens are still the same? There's an enormous supply of them. Tokens are relatively inelastic and are unresponsive to the change in price of other things. This does not negate the fact that people will buy gold at the price it sells for, and the price it sells for is always correct because people will buy it -- they have the freedom not to, but they do because they can and have chosen to.

    The only people that don't get it are the ones who are overly idealistic about what gold prices should be.
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited November 2010
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    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The only people that don't get it are the ones who are overly idealistic about what gold prices should be.

    The actual value of the gold is still mostly determined by what PWI backs it with.

    If you look at the strategy PWI is actually taking, it is to maximize their income by devaluing coin against gold and increasing the value of gold against real life cash.

    Whether or not you want to blame PWI for raising the in-game value of gold deliberately is something else. Their actions are directly responsible for it.

    If packs and perfect hammers were completely eliminated from the boutique, the value of gold would fall and another item that can be directly or indirectly value-associated with coin will set the price.
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