Permanent tiger packs, at 25% reduction

Axelire - Heavens Tear

Calindil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah, totally. Any prospective mods in need of a role model that's got condecension down to a fine art, look no further than , he's got it going on.

Not gonna mention names for obvious reasons, though I've mentioned his name to you before in PMs, Axe, lol. For those of you playing along at home, he's posted in this topic already.

And as for the choice of wording of "indefinitely"... what option are we left with but to assume it means "very long term at the least", or "exit of which will coincide with the introduction of a similar yet new pack"? I mean, really. To argue that it doesn't mean "for all eternity" in a literal sense is self-evidently moot, in the context of a game that isn't gonna be around forever.

b:quiet You virgin poster, you posted too much sense in one post. NOT ALLOWED! Server is back up, get online please. i gotz extazy cardz yayz

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

I got almost no chance to kill 1v1 without a few crits in a row with my current gear.

Fixed it for you.

A mage with a similar coin budget as a BM at 10x should be about 50/50 chance to win/lose with an advantage to the mage, I think. It really depends on skill and luck. You could take the budget of an -interval tome and get at least +11 if not +12... You're right, there is no comparison in PvE, but in PvP even if your gear is slightly worse, you should still have the slight advantage if you know how to play your class. b:bye

EDIT: And before you say it, no it's not about BM's not knowing how to play their class, it's about HA users being very weak to magic, and mages being very strong with it.

Calindil - Heavens Tear

Axelire - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:quiet You virgin poster, you posted too much sense in one post. NOT ALLOWED! Server is back up, get online please. i gotz extazy cardz yayz

wtf, ecstacy cards again? no u.

prof

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Fixed it for you.

A mage with a similar coin budget as a BM at 10x should be about 50/50 chance to win/lose with an advantage to the mage, I think. It really depends on skill and luck. You could take the budget of an -interval tome and get at least +11 if not +12... You're right, there is no comparison in PvE, but in PvP even if your gear is slightly worse, you should still have the slight advantage if you know how to play your class. b:bye

in my experience of insanely refined characters, bm definitely becomes the hardest opponent for a mage(this excludes a robed cleric that does nothing but heal). I don't suppose you've ever seen 2-4pc magic defense gear refined to +10/11/12? with sutra? and 15~25k hp ontop of that?

b:bye

Michael_Dark - Lost City

prof wrote: »

in my experience of insanely refined characters, bm definitely becomes the hardest opponent for a mage(this excludes a robed cleric that does nothing but heal). I don't suppose you've ever seen 2-4pc magic defense gear refined to +10/11/12? with sutra? and 15~25k hp ontop of that?

b:bye

You and your private server fantasy builds... How many people on LC have full +10 sets? Oh, maybe two dozen people? How many 10x are on the older servers? Hundreds? Maybe 1000 or more?

Guess what? People with full +10 sets and +12 weapons still die.

Also, since a mage doesn't need an interval tome, that's an extra +12 or two +11 refines that the mage can have.

The same BM with 15-25khp? How about a mage with close to 20k pdef, 20k matk and 12k unbuffed hp?

Take off your blinders and look at both sides of the coin.

b:bye

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

You and your private server fantasy builds... How many people on LC have full +10 sets? Oh, maybe two dozen people? How many 10x are on the older servers? Hundreds? Maybe 1000 or more?

Guess what? People with full +10 sets and +12 weapons still die.

Also, since a mage doesn't need an interval tome, that's an extra +12 or two +11 refines that the mage can have.

The same BM with 15-25khp? How about a mage with close to 20k pdef, 20k matk and 12k unbuffed hp?

Take off your blinders and look at both sides of the coin.

b:bye

all of which is still very earnable through in-game means! It just takes some hard work and budgetting!

If I can get "pack" gear and great refines without spending a dime, anyone can. Jsut ask my boyfriend.. My obsession with frivilous things is the only thing that prevented me form doing it sooner. But oh, its on now. out to prove to the world that this game is still very much free to play! b:dirty

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

Pretty much predicted it.

What baffles me is the slight reduction on sunshine fail-packs that nobody bought. Considering tigers are far cheaper and better, they're guaranteeing themselves pretty much zero sales on that.

600k gold sucks, but I can live with it. Enough grinding for DQ's and I can grab a few silver charms and some fash from the event boutique anyway. Have about 70 dyes that will bump up in value now, so might turn those to cash and play pack merchant for a bit. Economy isn't really "broken" atm, it's just a lot different than it once was.

sangodoc

sethh wrote: »

I think you should be quiet for this moment. Don't even know your "own" game. 600k to get a piece of gold?
You need my dollar to eat, np i'll give u. Just be quietb:shutup

Uh... I don't work for the company, so I don't make any money from them at all. Not one cent.

Also, nothing I said was wrong.

Honestly, the only difference between you and I is that I have some say in things that happen to the wiki, we have some different opinions, and I won't tell you to shut up just because I don't like your opinion.

Have a nice day. b:pleased

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@Sangdoc: arguing about the difference between between "indefinitely" and "permanently" is just playing semantics. especially since "permanently" implies the game will last forever, while "indefinitely" more closely fits the premise that the game will go off-line at some point, and they are just milking the population for fun and profit until that day.

or maybe the change from "permanently" with coral packs, to "indefinitely" with tigers is a Minor localization

When you're talking about the meaning of words of course it's semantics. That's what semantics means. But just because it's semantics, doesn't mean it's irrelevant. Words mean things, but interpreting them however you like and pretending that your misinterpretation is right just makes you look foolish.

Also, "permanently" doesn't imply the game will last forever, that's just silly. If someone had actually said it, which they didn't, it would just mean that it wouldn't ever leave the game for however long the game is around.

And as I said, the Tiger packs will probably go away in a couple of months, after the Genesis expansion will be released. That's far sooner than until "game will go off-line at some point"; an argument which clearly had nothing to do with my point.

Furthermore, they never said "permanently" with Coral packs either, they said "indefinitely" with that.

If I'm right, then it's only two months or so, which is hardly "permanent" at all.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um:

ndefinitely adverb
for a period of time with no fixed end

permanently adverb
always and forever

From that, you can easily figure that until you get the end, "indefinitely" is exactly "permanently". After all, just because there is no deadline right now does not mean that there will someday be one. And because there is none, it's effectively the same as being permanent.

That's absurd. b:beatup One means it will definitely never end, while the other means that it may end at any time. Those are two totally different meanings, so saying that they're equivalent is simply nonsense.

One gives you (reasonably) definite knowledge that things won't change, while the other lets you know that things may change at any time, and leaves the door open to speculation. If you're treating those two words the same then you're just ignoring the possibilities, but that doesn't mean that they are effectively the same thing.

And for those of you twisting my words to try to say that I'm claiming all packs will go away, please read what I'm actually saying. I'm just saying that it seems both reasonable and likely that after the Genesis expansion is released that packs without rewards for the Earthguard will likely go away. I'm not claiming that they won't be replaced with other packs.

Seriously, it's really frustrating to talk to the few of you that have to interpret everything I write in the worst possible light, or simply invent some new interpretation for my words that was never intended. b:surrender

Alphae - Lost City

Sangodoc wrote: »

When you're talking about the meaning of words of course it's semantics. That's what semantics means. But just because it's semantics, doesn't mean it's irrelevant. Words mean things, but interpreting them however you like and pretending that your misinterpretation is right just makes you look foolish.

Words also have connotations. You didn't impress anyone playing semantics last time, and you're not doing it now. b:bye

Perhaps a more accurate description is: in the Boutique indefinitely, or until such time as new classes are released, PWI can slap 3 more items in a pack, give it a new label, and release it "for the Earthguard."

NightRage - Raging Tide

I think it's safe to say that gamble packs will be in the game permanently so we can put all the word games away and quit riding PWE leg.

Akyeno - Heavens Tear

NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think it's safe to say that gamble packs will be in the game permanently so we can put all the word games away and quit riding PWE leg.

After the first few words of your post, I thought you were going to say "Game is Dead"b:chuckle.

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

wow are you trying to play smartass, they removed the 1* D.Orb from event boutique long ago anyway, do you even play the game?

Yes I'm pissed, I'm ****ing raging right now. I've been piling up coins to buy gold for next refine sale but there's no ****ing way I can do that with 600k gold permanently. I need to refine my **** and weapon and now I'm supposed to just take it for 600k a pop?

I've been saying over and over again that we need a non-cash-shop ****ing way to farm D.Orbs but nobody listens this pisses me off beyond reason.

**** boutique exclusive extreme-gameplay-altering and power from the cash shop. **** this stupid game.

dude quit the ****ing game already. your rage will get nothing accomplished accept make people laugh at you and your nerd rage for a good 10 mins like i did.

NightRage - Raging Tide

Akyeno - Heavens Tear wrote: »

After the first few words of your post, I thought you were going to say "Game is Dead"b:chuckle.

That goes without saying.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Sangodoc wrote: »

Furthermore, they never said "permanently" with Coral packs either, they said "indefinitely" with that.

If I'm right, then it's only two months or so, which is hardly "permanent" at all.

With all due respect, you're arguing off the assumption that the normal state of the game is to have no packs in the boutique, and that the periods when there are packs are exceptions to this norm.

The more useful question to ask is, "Will there be packs in the game the majority of the time from now until the end of the game?" If so, then it's more accurate to say the normal state of the game is to have packs in the boutique, and to call the periods without packs a pack hiatus. In that respect, the packs are "permanent" since they'll continuously be in the game from now until the game ends, except for brief periods when they're in hiatus.

Kinda like the grocery store "permanently" stocks milk, even though they might occasionally run out of stock. Nobody is trying to say the store will never run out of stock - that packs will be available for purchase every second from now until the game ends - which is what you're arguing against. They're saying that from now until the end of the game, you'll be able to randomly pop open the boutique and have a reasonably good expectation (significantly more than 50%) to see some type of pack available for purchase. That this isn't a packless game where packs are occasionally added to the boutique for special occasions; it's a game with packs where the packs are occasionally removed from the boutique seemingly only to sustain the type of semantic argument you're making.

Frankly, at this point, I think most of us would have a lot more respect for PWE if they were just honest about this and state that packs are permanent, although they might occasionally be removed to build up demand for a new type of pack being prepped for release.

evilramen

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

With all due respect, you're arguing off the assumption that the normal state of the game is to have no packs in the boutique, and that the periods when there are packs are exceptions to this norm.

The more useful question to ask is, "Will there be packs in the game the majority of the time from now until the end of the game?" If so, then it's more accurate to say the normal state of the game is to have packs in the boutique, and to call the periods without packs a pack hiatus. In that respect, the packs are "permanent" since they'll continuously be in the game from now until the game ends, except for brief periods when they're in hiatus.

Kinda like the grocery store "permanently" stocks milk, even though they might occasionally run out of stock. Nobody is trying to say the store will never run out of stock - that packs will be available for purchase every second from now until the game ends - which is what you're arguing against. They're saying that from now until the end of the game, you'll be able to randomly pop open the boutique and have a reasonably good expectation (significantly more than 50%) to see some type of pack available for purchase. That this isn't a packless game where packs are occasionally added to the boutique for special occasions; it's a game with packs where the packs are occasionally removed from the boutique seemingly only to sustain the type of semantic argument you're making.

Frankly, at this point, I think most of us would have a lot more respect for PWE if they were just honest about this and state that packs are permanent, although they might occasionally be removed to build up demand for a new type of pack being prepped for release.

Gm/Mod will never respond to the real problem directly, instead they cherry pick the problem that they can some-what explain. In this case the wording of "indefinitely" and "permanently". Quite sad really.

Spirit_Age - Raging Tide

I think I'm gona quit the mmo scene and go to RTS games. Who is with me?

Moog - Lost City

I must say when i saw 25% tiger packs in boutique again I was very happy. I immediately used all the gold I bought at 400k two days ago and bought 300 tiger packs to sell, i love moneyz b:pleased

Thrashbarg - Dreamweaver

What most people fail to notice is the "price of gold" in game has no real meaning to the company making the game.

The "price of gold" is $1 per unit. All the gold you "buy" at the auction house has already been paid for with a REAL dollar, this is what the company cares about, REAL dollars. They will (and should) do whatever they can to get people to spend more REAL dollars.

"Everyone" knows the sunshine packs are crappy compared to the tiger packs, so sales went down noticeably last week. The tiger pack sale is simply a corporate response to an obvious drop in income.

No one is making you buy gold or packs. It's like the lottery, if it provides needed services (hp/mp food=low cost health care?) then I am glad people who have money to waste do so in this way. If you spend all your money on packs trying to get a scroll of tome that you think you NEED, then I feel a bit sorry for you (and a bit amused at your inability to understand probability).

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Fixed it for you.

A mage with a similar coin budget as a BM at 10x should be about 50/50 chance to win/lose with an advantage to the mage, I think. It really depends on skill and luck. You could take the budget of an -interval tome and get at least +11 if not +12... You're right, there is no comparison in PvE, but in PvP even if your gear is slightly worse, you should still have the slight advantage if you know how to play your class. b:bye

EDIT: And before you say it, no it's not about BM's not knowing how to play their class, it's about HA users being very weak to magic, and mages being very strong with it.

Well this is refreshing, a sensible post from you. At least I enjoy writing a reply this time to you.

But again, the point is invalid, because I am sure the mages you talk about with insane pdef have +10 cube necklaces and warsong belts... invest that much into them (elemental versions) as well instead of more aps, you don't need so much anyway to kill a wiz in 3 seconds when you start to hit him up. Then behold Gush hits for 3-4k even with 2nd cast nirvana... while you have 16k HP or more. Magic marrow would make you invincible.

Frankly the reason what you said is more "realistic" than what prof said, and you think he has fantasy "private server" builds, is because people just prefer offense over defense. Naturally, wizards are supposed to be better at it. Most BMs share same mentality, but again, it's the fault of the player here... theoretically, it's very hard for a mage to kill said BM, just like it is for a BM to kill said mage if he used axes. And it's not necessarily due to low damage -- but because of aps, which means everytime BM gets close, even with that insane pdef, wiz is still going to get owned unless he uses some immunity. Without APS though, both would probably not be able to kill each other. Balanced? Definitely more than now.

Thrashbarg - Dreamweaver wrote: »

What most people fail to notice is the "price of gold" in game has no real meaning to the company making the game.

The "price of gold" is $1 per unit. All the gold you "buy" at the auction house has already been paid for with a REAL dollar, this is what the company cares about, REAL dollars. They will (and should) do whatever they can to get people to spend more REAL dollars.

"Everyone" knows the sunshine packs are crappy compared to the tiger packs, so sales went down noticeably last week. The tiger pack sale is simply a corporate response to an obvious drop in income.

No one is making you buy gold or packs. It's like the lottery, if it provides needed services (hp/mp food=low cost health care?) then I am glad people who have money to waste do so in this way. If you spend all your money on packs trying to get a scroll of tome that you think you NEED, then I feel a bit sorry for you (and a bit amused at your inability to understand probability).

But that's the point! There's other stuff in the damn boutique, exclusive to it, that we want to buy, not just the ****ing packs!

Why must D.Orb prices be affected by the freaking demand for packs? Stupid boutique exclusive ****. b:infuriated

Russiee - Raging Tide

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

But again, the point is invalid, because I am sure the mages you talk about with insane pdef have +10 cube necklaces and warsong belts... invest that much into them (elemental versions) as well instead of more aps, you don't need so much anyway to kill a wiz in 3 seconds when you start to hit him up. Then behold Gush hits for 3-4k even with 2nd cast nirvana... while you have 16k HP or more. Magic marrow would make you invincible

Have you ever PvP'ed in the air? I guess not. 50% Damage reduction in air when dropping helps a ton. Also 3-4k Gush? Then get them to 55% and Nuke? Kinda goes without saying.. or do you want everything handed to wizards on a diamond platter? Ohaigaiz. We do the highest DPH, therefore I demand you nerf everyone else just to make it fair for us.

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

Spirit_Age - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think I'm gona quit the mmo scene and go to RTS games. Who is with me?

im already in starcraft 2 myself. mid level diamond zerg.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Russiee - Raging Tide wrote: »

Have you ever PvP'ed in the air? I guess not. 50% Damage reduction in air when dropping helps a ton. Also 3-4k Gush? Then get them to 55% and Nuke? Kinda goes without saying.. or do you want everything handed to wizards on a diamond platter? Ohaigaiz. We do the highest DPH, therefore I demand you nerf everyone else just to make it fair for us.

At that rate you would need to do like 4 times the damage with the nuke compared to Gush -- criteria to be met:

1) Has to crit
2) You need your sleep on cooldown -- a decent player knows wizard skills and cooldowns
3) They must not have any genie skills to counter it. Problem is decent players will avoid exhausting their genie until they "catch you".
4) They must be oblivious to the fact that you'll nuke them after poking and kiting.

I mean, considering the fact that we cannot make a slight mistake, and we have to be in the air even (which yes I don't do :P), is it so wrong to expect that a big mistake from them should make them bypassed?

If they can predict the above, where few competent people can, then you can't do much apart from maybe using a Sutra and praying for 4 crits in a row. Why would this work? Because it would be unexpected for them. b:laugh

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well this is refreshing, a sensible post from you. At least I enjoy writing a reply this time to you.

But again, the point is invalid, because I am sure the mages you talk about with insane pdef have +10 cube necklaces and warsong belts... invest that much into them (elemental versions) as well instead of more aps, you don't need so much anyway to kill a wiz in 3 seconds when you start to hit him up. Then behold Gush hits for 3-4k even with 2nd cast nirvana... while you have 16k HP or more. Magic marrow would make you invincible.

Frankly the reason what you said is more "realistic" than what prof said, and you think he has fantasy "private server" builds, is because people just prefer offense over defense. Naturally, wizards are supposed to be better at it. Most BMs share same mentality, but again, it's the fault of the player here... theoretically, it's very hard for a mage to kill said BM, just like it is for a BM to kill said mage if he used axes. And it's not necessarily due to low damage -- but because of aps, which means everytime BM gets close, even with that insane pdef, wiz is still going to get owned unless he uses some immunity. Without APS though, both would probably not be able to kill each other. Balanced? Definitely more than now.

You know, I don't mind you when you're not being a pissy little troll either. You always get inflamed at this issue... I would suggest Preparation H.

Magic Marrow certainly does not make a BM invincible.

The fact is, an equally geared mage has about the same chance to kill a BM as the BM does the mage.

A mage with a +3 set and a +5 weapon isn't going to be much effort to an interval BM who can hit 5aps sparked. However against a BM with +5 Deicides, +3 armor and maybe one or two pieces of interval? Mage definitely has the advantage.

It's not until the BM starts to highly outgear (which isn't quite as obvious because BMs need to specifically tailor their builds for interval) the mage, the results aren't as uneven as you think.

Just the interval tome itself would get a whole set of gear from +5 to +7, maybe even to +8, or give a weapon a +12... on top of that the BM still needs to refine.

Sorry, I don't see the mage as a weak class. It's not. You just think it is.

Kairu_ - Sanctuary

Sangodoc wrote: »

*sigh* When will people learn the difference between "indefinitely" and "permanently"? b:surrender

"Until further notice" doesn't mean it's permanent.

In fact, considering the absence of Earthguard items in the packs, it seems pretty likely that the old packs will all go away after the Genesis expansion comes out, much as the Anniversary Pack went away after the Rising Tide expansion came out.

Oh, and the game will keep on surviving just fine, Joel. Thanks for your concern. b:chuckle

and then you find people with half a brain. anni pack left what was it 4 months after the annivisary (or was it 5 i lost count) so a 1 month pack lasts 5 months so a pack till release which is 2-3 months will last about a year going by that logic. and then theirs the second part of your post that's pretty dense for a mod to say since your trying to point out a trend. anni pack left and another pack took it's place WITH HIGHER TOKEN OF LUCK RATE AND SIGNIFICANTLY DECREASED RATE FOR ANY OF THE OTHERS. it used to be in 50-100 packs from anni you could actually get something decent besides a best luck token. now it's like what 200-300 before you do. the next packs with a smaller rate (going by the trend the previous 3 have had since your trying to point out a trend it seems) you'll get what a best luck token every 50 lol. and a decent item every 500-1k, meh that about sounds right.

and yes if you look at most the other things when untill further notice means 3-4 months. and if pwi likes the result it has on their wallets then the'll either keep it or make a mock of it to keep it high. if your going to try to stand up for your job and a greedy company at least put some more effort into thinking.


ps: i insulted a mod, watch him abuse his power and ban hammer me if he can't come up with something else good to say. considering I'd say the same thing to a player if they mentioned a post without thinking of the consequences or that somebody with a little intelligence (but horrible grammar) may read it.

edit: as for the game keeping on surviving that can go 2 ways. 1 FW is released and this crazy high gold prices and screwed up economy will draw them to a new game but that's a win win for pwe since they still get payed and hence don't give a rats ***. or 2 things will occur just like a few sanctuary high rollers (can't mention names on forum) just left because it ended up to easy for paying. and payed so much to reach end game and then the end game utterly failed with nothing to do but pk/TW vs the same 1-3 factions every week getting increasingly boaring) will come along and spend more money on the game to reach the curren't top players while 80% of the non csers will probably stop around 80/90 when the cs/no life/merchant vs life/non cs/non merchant difference starts to kick in and they realize how far their behind like so many have. and theirs always the wave of people who will probably quit either at or soon after the next expansion if they don't fix the rubberbanding (95% of the people i know already hate it and the game's current glitches and a new race will only add to the issues). especially since you'll get maby 1 more race after this one. if you guys don't start fixing serious glitches by then the game will just end up a glitchfest with few players because of the plathora of glitches. heck pvp servers despise the rubberbanding more then any others (i know i have chars on pvp servers in the pk range and rubberbanding really effects some of the kiting there).

but all in all: if they leave for FW pwi gets payed. if only csers play they get payed. if lagg fest makes it hard for ranged classes then more 5aps's will join since it'll be 10 times easier to catch their pray without them squirming or running away so the'll still get payed. essentially pwe gets payed no matter how you look at the situation so as mentioned previoiusly they really won't give a rats *** and are just gonna give all the players the runaround untill the game finally collapses while milking everybody for every last cent they have