BM world beside axes and fists?
HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
Posts: 574 Arc User
After having played this game for a while it seems to me like 99% of the BMs go for either fist/claw weapon path or fist/axe combo weapon path ( for HF ). I mean i know that there is the magical number 5 APS and HF as dmg boost for instances but i rly would like to see if the other weapon paths still are valuable options.
In my opinion taking weapons with higher DPH like swords or pikes doesnt seem to pay off anymore because the additional dmg gained from a slower weapon cant outweigh the faster attack rates. If my observation is correct then PWI should care about making the other weapon paths more attractive to play again.
So please take part in the poll and tell me your opinion about the current situation
greetz harm0wnie
In my opinion taking weapons with higher DPH like swords or pikes doesnt seem to pay off anymore because the additional dmg gained from a slower weapon cant outweigh the faster attack rates. If my observation is correct then PWI should care about making the other weapon paths more attractive to play again.
So please take part in the poll and tell me your opinion about the current situation
greetz harm0wnie
Post edited by HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver on
0
Comments
-
pole is still usefull
swords are good for mss...and thats about it
tbh 1/2 our class skills are absolute trash and could use a revamp
(draw blood mage bane and vacatious palm for example)Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Well, I always thought that dev's made two main paths and two side paths. Fists for DDing/tanking, axes for mob control/amping/stunning and then poles/swords for... well, idk what dev's planned for those. Of course it's easy to think that poles were made for range and swords as a compilation of other three but it's not as easy to define those as fists and axes.
Having all four paths balanced could be boring imo. Some paths are better than others but currently you should have at least axes and fists (and -int) when you hit 100. Some people decide not to do that but they are very often seen as fail BMs. After all, now the definition of a "fail BM" is not having the best possible damage output.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Pole's still good. Farstrike I use a few times a week. Meteror rush I use during aoe grinding when I ran of of chi to use HF. Glacial is something I use during boss fights when I have too much chi. Piercing wind I never use in my life.
Sword skills are totally useless. Most of its skills are replaceble by other skills due to their weak effects. Last time I use mage bane was when I'm in the 30's, atmos and spirit chaser around 80's. Myriad's the only one I still use occasionally.
Too many crappy skills in the BM skill trees.0 -
Polearm
Long range and mixes well with both Axe and Fist builds.Venomancers/Clerics rock![SIGPIC]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/110/1/5/Schrodinger_plz_by_McMonster_Ridgeback.gif[/SIGPIC]
Alt main: Traydor_Styx - RT - 960 -
I also keeep a pole around for Glacial Spike & purging... otherwise yeah XD mostly just fists & axes[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
-
Axe - AoE grind (easy leveling)
Polearms - Linear AoE Grind (slower but 2nd fastest leveling)
Fist - PvP/Event/Near In-game AoE Grind (mainly PvP oriented and is useful to Magic type chars.)
These weapons have the fastest (cept fist) grinding in the game.Venomancers/Clerics rock![SIGPIC]http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/110/1/5/Schrodinger_plz_by_McMonster_Ridgeback.gif[/SIGPIC]
Alt main: Traydor_Styx - RT - 960 -
@Seablue: saying that the Sword Weapon Path is useless on a Class named BLADEmaster might indicate that there is a problem isnt it?
@Joshcja - what does mss mean?
wouldnt it make sense to have a larger diversity of bms out there? Why are players who pick skill tree option a) intended to fail whereas those who go with b)are fine in every single situation? Do you also think it's ok if a classes benefits from sage/demon are in favour of 1 side? --> Personally i dont think that it is a good idea to limit possible builds down to a minimum by making it useless to choose something less popular. BTW even at lvl 100 you wont be able to wear all weapons due to stat point restrictionsKupuntu wrote:Having all four paths balanced could be boring imo. Some paths are better than others but currently you should have at least axes and fists (and -int) when you hit 100. Some people decide not to do that but they are very often seen as fail BMs. After all, now the definition of a "fail BM" is not having the best possible damage output.
Another problem of making sword pole useless is that demand on items and also supply on the market of those items is limited.0 -
HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver wrote: »@Seablue: saying that the Sword Weapon Path is useless on a Class named BLADEmaster might indicate that there is a problem isnt it?
@Joshcja - what does mss mean?
wouldnt it make sense to have a larger diversity of bms out there? Why are players who pick skill tree option a) intended to fail whereas those who go with b)are fine in every single situation? Do you also think it's ok if a classes benefits from sage/demon are in favour of 1 side? --> Personally i dont think that it is a good idea to limit possible builds down to a minimum by making it useless to choose something less popular. BTW even at lvl 100 you wont be able to wear all weapons due to stat point restrictions
Another problem of making sword pole useless is that demand on items and also supply on the market of those items is limited.
Blademaster is more of a mistranslation, Warrior is closer to it as far as I know.
MSS = Myriad
The so called best build will attract most players. If you made all the paths "equally good", all paths would have to be able to deal the same amount of DPS/AoE damage with the same amount of -interval/money spent. In which case they all would be the same path.
Also, if you go 3 str 2 dex you should have enough stat points to use all weapons.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
I originally went swords first, but at 6x went swords/axes, and then my 9x levels I started to become a sword/axe/fist hybrid. Though I rarely use my sword anymore, I do have it.
MSS is just an acronym for Myraid Sword Stance, by far one of my favorite skills. It reduces the magical, and physical damage by xx% capped at 50% at level 10/11. Although it along with the other 3 sword skills are EXTREMELY situational. I do like the damage output from Atmos Strike. (which knock backs the mob as well, which is situational, but useful in RB's) I haven't once used Mage Bane to help the squad at all. =x lol Perhaps the most useless skill in all of the paths. ;/ I also kind of like using spirit chaser as a ranged attack, can be useful in fcs to attack the heads/harpies. ;p
As for pole's... well I haven't really tried any of their skills, though the ultimate seems like a nice combo to throw in with HF, from axes.
Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick
What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)0 -
Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »Blademaster is more of a mistranslation, Warrior is closer to it as far as I know.
MSS = Myriad
The so called best build will attract most players. If you made all the paths "equally good", all paths would have to be able to deal the same amount of DPS/AoE damage with the same amount of -interval/money spent. In which case they all would be the same path.
Also, if you go 3 str 2 dex you should have enough stat points to use all weapons.
tbh warrior is missleading the new seeker class fits that niche a lot better than bm's ever did
we're more like barely restrained psycopaths who tote a ton different rusted blades willing to draw them at the slightest provocation and we LIKE useing em
seriously name one good bm you know thats not borderline ADD or who does not see a group of mobs and dive into em with a sadistic grin
bad bm's obvoisly dont count >_>Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
I like it when 3 hybrid bms are in squad, I wood pot, dbb, double spark, cyclone mire and stygean dies in 20 secs and 1 use max HF, the other use max gs and veno uses amp damage and poison. Man barbs are lame tanks now a days.
ooooohhhh man i feel good at full debuff moments.AP classes are a real butt pounding...0 -
ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »I like it when 3 hybrid bms are in squad, I wood pot, dbb, double spark, cyclone mire and stygean dies in 20 secs and 1 use max HF, the other use max gs and veno uses amp damage and poison. Man barbs are lame tanks now a days.
ooooohhhh man i feel good at full debuff moments.
the veno should spam myriad rainbow skills for 25% chance to armor break(-100%pdef) the target...b:thanksi am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »seriously name one good bm you know thats not borderline ADD or who does not see a group of mobs and dive into em with a sadistic grin
Must... keel... dem... all... with ma new nirvana axes b:dirty.0 -
in my experience, raging tide has more axe bm's than anything else. correct me if i'm wrong please.0
-
I feel that polearms are under-used. I really wish another class could use them. They have a good balance and speed and damage.0
-
SaintToadElf - Archosaur wrote: »I feel that polearms are under-used. I really wish another class could use them. They have a good balance and speed and damage.
Other classes can use them.0 -
Really it has nothing to do with using the most "popular build". Most BM's are built to use any weapon and simply choose the most effective one for the situation at the time. Axes handle multiple mobs most efficiently, and fists have the highest single target DPS. That in itself pretty much covers 99% of most common situations.
Swords are decent for Myraid and poles for the occasional Glacial and Farstrike.0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »tbh warrior is missleading the new seeker class fits that niche a lot better than bm's ever did
we're more like barely restrained psycopaths who tote a ton different rusted blades willing to draw them at the slightest provocation and we LIKE useing em
seriously name one good bm you know thats not borderline ADD or who does not see a group of mobs and dive into em with a sadistic grin
bad bm's obvoisly dont count >_>
QFT, Amen.
The good bm's can do this to 4 mobs, with NO cleric. When its over, they'll have about 50 hp left, broken armor and weaps and about 30k worth of drops.b:shutup[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Some of us arent looking for anything logical, like money.
We cannot be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with.
We just want to see the world burn...0 -
Shin_Akuma_ - Sanctuary wrote: »QFT, Amen.
The good bm's can do this to 4 mobs, with NO cleric. When its over, they'll have about 50 hp left, broken armor and weaps and about 30k worth of drops.b:shutup
4 mobs?
Dude I pull 15 mobs, look at them all Smile, use dance emote and watch them all drop from 3 AoE skills are once >:D
After which I have perfect HP, about 150k worth of drops (when lucky), and my axe never looked more beautiful than when it's soaked in blood and has it dripped from the blade.
Heck I did it with a sword, ohgawd yes! Those were near orgasmic moments when my dude finished off the mobs 0 -
Isn't faster to just fist the 4 mobs then AoE them?
I gather all chief sins in that 1 area, 1 wave per minute = sexy
To bad i'm stopping at 90, i will never experience the Avalanche Crusher in 3rd map with a 40 second aggro time.AP classes are a real butt pounding...0 -
Reality: Gorenox Vanity and decides = cash for developers.
Interval has replaced skill. I'm at lvl 90 and already I'm feeling the pain of not being able to afford 3+ aps:
whisper: may I join
reply: what aps are you?
whisper: 1.54 without buffs
No reply.............
Mabey the developers could not anticipate this but this game is just a matter of who can afford int gear and who can't.
As for axes, there are only two real options and 1 is faaaaaaaaaaaaar too unrealistic for almost everyone that isn't washed in cash. The third option still requires your credit card or your soul or both.
When/if the developers wake up and decide to make the game more skill based as opposed to gear based then we can have this discussion about weapon paths. For now other than periodic bouts of PvP skills are mostly irrelevant.
I've read alot of what Micheal Dark has had to say but guess what he is no different in terms of being a 3+ aps character as well. Not calling you out or anything but until you guys admit that its a broken mechanic and everyone put pressure on the developers to have it fixed this game remains somewhat of a joke in certain terms.
I used to play a game and I and many others left. Threatened with non-existance, the developers finally woke up and made the relevant changes/nerfs. Now its quite a good game once again. Too bad I really like PWI for the time being but now that I am lvl 90 I have reached a point where finding a squad is based on what gear I have/don't have.
Now I am wondering what the skills in my skill bar are for...............0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »I've read alot of what Micheal Dark has had to say but guess what he is no different in terms of being a 3+ aps character as well. Not calling you out or anything but until you guys admit that its a broken mechanic and everyone put pressure on the developers to have it fixed this game remains somewhat of a joke in certain terms.
I used to play a game and I and many others left. Threatened with non-existance, the developers finally woke up and made the relevant changes/nerfs. Now its quite a good game once again. Too bad I really like PWI for the time being but now that I am lvl 90 I have reached a point where finding a squad is based on what gear I have/don't have.
Now I am wondering what the skills in my skill bar are for...............
You have a point. If you look at my level 92 build, it should be pretty obvious that I ain't getting 5 aps instantly when I hit 100, if ever. Not like I care that much.
If there was no 5 aps, developers would have made something else "OP". That would either be a good thing for BMs (if it was related to us) or a bad thing if it was, say, magic skill DPS or something. All in all, there will always be something that's OP and costs a lot.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »Reality: Gorenox Vanity and decides = cash for developers.
Interval has replaced skill. I'm at lvl 90 and already I'm feeling the pain of not being able to afford 3+ aps:
whisper: may I join
reply: what aps are you?
whisper: 1.54 without buffs
No reply.............
Mabey the developers could not anticipate this but this game is just a matter of who can afford int gear and who can't.
As for axes, there are only two real options and 1 is faaaaaaaaaaaaar too unrealistic for almost everyone that isn't washed in cash. The third option still requires your credit card or your soul or both.
When/if the developers wake up and decide to make the game more skill based as opposed to gear based then we can have this discussion about weapon paths. For now other than periodic bouts of PvP skills are mostly irrelevant.
I've read alot of what Micheal Dark has had to say but guess what he is no different in terms of being a 3+ aps character as well. Not calling you out or anything but until you guys admit that its a broken mechanic and everyone put pressure on the developers to have it fixed this game remains somewhat of a joke in certain terms.
I used to play a game and I and many others left. Threatened with non-existance, the developers finally woke up and made the relevant changes/nerfs. Now its quite a good game once again. Too bad I really like PWI for the time being but now that I am lvl 90 I have reached a point where finding a squad is based on what gear I have/don't have.
Now I am wondering what the skills in my skill bar are for...............
GV = 14 mill or less clean on sanc
tt 90 gold bracers = 5-6 mill
if you cant make 20 mill by level 90 you probly BH spamed
bet all your gear is +2-3 with flawless as well
ya i wouldent take you on runs either
(my level 53 wizzie is stilling on roughly 4 mill no merchanting)Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
I've made more than 20 mil by level 90, but I've spent it buying things called skills and other gear and a charm here or there etc. I didn't sit on 20 mil and no I did not spam BH. In fact I also use the cash shop however not heavily. Not every BM running around has on vanities and not every bm running around has on tt90 gold. In fact there are many bms who do not fit the 3+ aps build who are 90+.
By your and all the other "pro" players who all just happen to have a full complement of FC helm, fist, rings, robes, full mountchrasher gear all +4 and up and the vaunted tt90 gold fist everyone else is a fail. I worked just as hard as any other player getting to where I am. I dislike to here you people who make it seem as if there is some basic formula that all you do is follow these steps here and uber gear setup ala as described above comes out. Furthermore I may add that all these gears we speak of are nice +ed and sharded beyond what the ordinary bm can afford!
The forum has degenerated to the haves and have nots. Everyone can't afford it. But beyond that point is one more important than that. I'm reffering to what the OP points to. Its the fact that a broken system (ala not nerfing aps) and the fact that the sword and pole skills offer little in comparison to fist and axes that has collapsed the bm line into a steryotipical build. Unless you can afford a set of uber axes (once again pls forgive me and all the other bms who are not able to be as awesome as you) fist is almost the be all end all of the class.
In short swords and poles could as well not exist.
Your shortsighted post aside I have played other PvP oriented games where balance (in some respect) is considered good. For now PWI ignores balance, ignores skills and is in its present state a almost completely gear depenant game.0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »By your and all the other "pro" players who all just happen to have a full complement of FC helm, fist, rings, robes, full mountchrasher gear all +4 and up and the vaunted tt90 gold fist everyone else is a fail. I worked just as hard as any other player getting to where I am. I dislike to here you people who make it seem as if there is some basic formula that all you do is follow these steps here and uber gear setup ala as described above comes out. Furthermore I may add that all these gears we speak of are nice +ed and sharded beyond what the ordinary bm can afford!
I considered myself an above average BM in terms of skill, knowledge of my class/game and gear. I now think I'm an average BM and will be that before hitting 90. After getting to 90/92, my gear will be way below average.
At 90, you are expected to have FCC gold fists, TT90 gold wrists and 3 pieces of TT90 green. As Josh said, we are talking about 30m-35m investment depending on the refines/server. And even that is nothing compared to what you expected to have at 99+.
If you can't get it, there's nobody else to blame than you yourself. I accepted it, got what I could and decided that it's what I'm getting. I will not be getting too many Nirvana runs done but that's inevitable unless I really start running TTs like crazy. My friend has been spamming TT1-3 for a month or two now and he's still 5m short of getting his FCC gold fist but he said he's going to do it at 85.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
And when have I blamed anyone for my position? I am just saying that I don't like players who because they are in a better position than yourself think that you are fail for it.
The facts are that as I approach endgame the game is gear dependent. Had I known this I would have skipped levelling my skills up and saved up for fancy gear as well. In fact here is the new and improved bm guide:
1) Set up your stats so you can use both axes and fist (usually a 3str/2dex build or a hybrid that incorporates a little vit).
2) Put everything into getting gear for 90+. Forget skills except HF (keep at level 1 since most players in FC don't know the difference) and about 2 AOES.
3) Tactics stun and use your -intv build to auto attack to victory.
4) Buy a HP charm for PvP
Think that about covers it.0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »And when have I blamed anyone for my position? I am just saying that I don't like players who because they are in a better position than yourself think that you are fail for it.
The facts are that as I approach endgame the game is gear dependent. Had I known this I would have skipped levelling my skills up and saved up for fancy gear as well. In fact here is the new and improved bm guide:
1) Set up your stats so you can use both axes and fist (usually a 3str/2dex build or a hybrid that incorporates a little vit).
2) Put everything into getting gear for 90+. Forget skills except HF (keep at level 1 since most players in FC don't know the difference) and about 2 AOES.
3) Tactics stun and use your -intv build to auto attack to victory.
4) Buy a HP charm for PvP
Think that about covers it.
maxing every usefull skill eats about 14 mill for all weapons if you count 79 skills
if you cant have the basic gear and skilsl needed by your class at 90+ you are a fail
QQ moarGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »
The forum has degenerated to the haves and have nots. Everyone can't afford it. But beyond that point is one more important than that. I'm reffering to what the OP points to. Its the fact that a broken system (ala not nerfing aps) and the fact that the sword and pole skills offer little in comparison to fist and axes that has collapsed the bm line into a steryotipical build. Unless you can afford a set of uber axes (once again pls forgive me and all the other bms who are not able to be as awesome as you) fist is almost the be all end all of the class.
In short swords and poles could as well not exist.
Your shortsighted post aside I have played other PvP oriented games where balance (in some respect) is considered good. For now PWI ignores balance, ignores skills and is in its present state a almost completely gear depenant game.
Thats exactly what my observation was that PWI is killing the diversity of BM builds because sword and pole tree dont offer anything to leave out fists and axes for it. The poll also indicates that the majority of the bms go with those builds because they are the only way to max out the benefits of the class.
But even worse off than physical users who cant afford the magical 5 APS are magical users especially the wiz because their long cast times cant be reduced because -chan gear only affects channeling so hit rate for magical casters remain relatively low compared to the phy users. Clerics arent hit that hard from the current developments because they are wanted for their healskills and not for their dmg
greetz harm0wnie0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »Reality: Gorenox Vanity and decides = cash for developers.
Interval has replaced skill. I'm at lvl 90 and already I'm feeling the pain of not being able to afford 3+ aps:
whisper: may I join
reply: what aps are you?
whisper: 1.54 without buffs
No reply.............
Mabey the developers could not anticipate this but this game is just a matter of who can afford int gear and who can't.
As for axes, there are only two real options and 1 is faaaaaaaaaaaaar too unrealistic for almost everyone that isn't washed in cash. The third option still requires your credit card or your soul or both.
if your taking about FF in relation to APS, the problem was on the other end. you need axes for FF, fists are just icing on the cake, that can make things go a little faster with high DPS. axe AOEs and stuns are what makes BMs valuable in FF, not fists, so the person asking was an idiot, and your better off without the squad.
if your talking about TT, got some bad news, BMs have always gotten the short end of the stick in TT, along with archers, wizards and to a lesser extent venos. until you can tank or solo, or get a good group of friends to run with, your gonna get DD by level picks.
for axes, you dont need to get GXs even though they are the industry standard, i've been rocking a set of OHT 2* axes with sac strike for 6 months on my BM and never had a problem, and have completed RB delta several times with them. they probably wouldnt cut it for TW, but their fine for everything else.
and anyone looking for an APS for delta (i've seen this too often for it to be a joke) is a moron of the first order.
TT90 gold fists are a waste of money, and twice the price of vanities at lease. if you want to farm high end instances as a BM you have to get your interval up, there just aren't 2 ways about it. Its not as hard to do as your making it out to be, but nothing is gonna fall in your lap.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »maxing every usefull skill eats about 14 mill for all weapons if you count 79 skills
if you cant have the basic gear and skilsl needed by your class at 90+ you are a fail
QQ moar
Define "skills and gear needed by your class". Everyone should have 'decent' equips for their level but then again, everyone has their own definition of decent.SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »TT90 gold fists are a waste of money, and twice the price of vanities at lease. if you want to farm high end instances as a BM you have to get your interval up, there just aren't 2 ways about it. Its not as hard to do as your making it out to be, but nothing is gonna fall in your lap.
If you have 1.43-1.54 aps at 100 you need to have really good friends to take you in TT/Nirvana. Plus running 1-3 at 100 isn't exactly the best idea since people think you're a noob. It's not hard to join 1-3 squads but people expect you to do 2-2 or 2-3 at that level (now that 3-x is harder).
Start farming your gear early on or you are going to regret it later.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0
![http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/110/1/5/Schrodinger_plz_by_McMonster_Ridgeback.gif[/SIGPIC]](http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs43/f/2009/110/1/5/Schrodinger_plz_by_McMonster_Ridgeback.gif[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
Categories
- All Categories
- 181.9K PWI
- 697 Official Announcements
- 2 Rules of Conduct
- 264 Cabbage Patch Notes
- 61K General Discussion
- 1.5K Quality Corner
- 11.1K Suggestion Box
- 77.4K Archosaur City
- 3.5K Cash Shop Huddle
- 14.3K Server Symposium
- 18.1K Dungeons & Tactics
- 2K The Crafting Nook
- 4.9K Guild Banter
- 6.6K The Trading Post
- 28K Class Discussion
- 1.9K Arigora Colosseum
- 78 TW & Cross Server Battles
- 337 Nation Wars
- 8.2K Off-Topic Discussion
- 3.7K The Fanatics Forum
- 207 Screenshots and Videos
- 22.8K Support Desk