Give us Barbs what we need to compete
Comments
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Fritigern - Lost City wrote: »It's getting more annoying now with more sins especially getting up to 9x-10x now.
Barb's IMO have a pretty sparse skill set to begin with.
PVP wise it's ridiculous. With a sin perma-sparking with stun stun stun! b:cry
"just use claws"? LMAO
So we all just use claws and fists now?
Restat my barb so I can use fists/claws and sacrifice VIT to do it I suppose?
A lot of classes need skill revamps.
But I'm not holding my breath. We all know well by now that PWI won't do jack about it.
(Barb agro stone?) b:puzzled 5 gold from the cashshop. One time use. Lasts 20 seconds.
b:bye
At first barbs complain about the cost of repairs... and now they complain about the lack of repairs. ironic... isn't it.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Wolfenrix - Sanctuary wrote: »Barbs need skills that can compete with the power hungry high damage dealing.
While it would be nice if they increased the aggro generated by FR me thinks the flaw with what OP is talking about here lies in the "power hungry" part....
Fuzzy consistently runs with some of (if not THE) most OP geared people on me server and lets see..
Tanked RB? check
Tanked ALL TT? check
Tanked Lunar? check
Tanked Nirvana? check
Tanked Warsong? check
Tanked every fb instance? check
Tanked every WB on the map? check
Barbs are not "outdated" or "useless buff machines" or anything close. If you run with people you trust it is never a problem to tank. Yes, perhaps that 5aps fist bm or the R8 sin with +12 nirvana dags can do it quicker... so what? The people Fuzzy choose to run with are not "power hungry" and if we decide before hand who is going to tank an instance the rest of us govern ourselves accordingly. Doesn't mean that as a barb Fuzzy never gets to tank, even when running with the OP geared crowd.
Also, this thread makes it sound like every barb on every server is running into every bm/archer etc who is 5.0aps. Fuzzy just doesn't buy that for a minute. Yes, there are quite a few out there, but when compared to the majority of 9x+ players (thanks to bh, hyper fc, whatever) they are an extremely small segment of the population. An average hybrid built barb who actually puts some effort into farming half decent gear should not have a problem AT ALL when attempting to hold agro from a similarly geared party of their own level rage.
Not every sin/bm/archer out there is 5aps and not every barb is having problems in the agro control dept.
....just Fuzzy's two cents. b:thanks[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Fuzzy, you, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. b:victory
*cough* OP just needs to FOCUS. >_>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »At first barbs complain about the cost of repairs... and now they complain about the lack of repairs. ironic... isn't it.
Actually, higher DPS squad members mean a lower repair bill for me.
The faster a boss dies, the less hits(damage) I take.
When a tank class is no longer needed, Something is wrong.
Plain and simple. b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I really don't have many issues as a Barb in terms of being a tank-class. Most end-game instances, when farmed properally w/ a decent squad, I'll be the big, bad buff machine. The thing is, do I tank a lot? When needed, yes. My build is hybrid - not much into the dex, but vit/str is a nice mix. My gear is very good for my level, but an equal geared -int user, will for sure take aggro from me, which I'm okay w/ that. However, when I'm not tanking, I do many other things that make people want me in the squad. Here are some examples that make me "wanted" in Nirvana runs:
-I have Demon Strength Buff; Working on HP :P
-I can run chests
-I will make the squad consistently for each run
-I can tank if needed; Always buff a dead party member when he/she rezes right away
-I will bank and sell/split at the end
-I ALWAYS debuff the bosses when not tanking; A Constant demon devour every second is always on the boss, thanks to me - which is equal imo to a veno's amp
-I will teach new people the ropes
b:victory0 -
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
remember our fallen heroes0 -
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Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »
And the whole "free wine" thing, that's YOUR fault, because you give in to them. You encourage them. I have never asked for free wines when doing bounty hunter. But if I see a world chat for "XXX instance needs a barb, free wines!" then I'm definitely going to take it over paying for it.
i'm pretty sure that most of those squads just need the barb and the free wines are for everyone. i've seen many "LF DD, free wines, random drops" too and I honestly dont think that i'm so precious that they will give just me free winesb:chuckle
btw, isn't funny that mainly barbs Q.Q about not being able to keep aggro/tank etc because of -int? I guess regular DDs are used to 3rd+ drop pick/not being desired b:chuckle0 -
ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »i'm pretty sure that most of those squads just need the barb and the free wines are for everyone. i've seen many "LF DD, free wines, random drops" too and I honestly dont think that i'm so precious that they will give me free winesb:chuckle
btw, isn't funny that mainly barbs Q.Q about not being able to keep aggro/tank etc because of -int? I guess regular DDs was used to 3rd+ drop pick/not being desired b:chuckle
DDs in general are a lot nicer then barbs. Back in the days where the barb tanks... they QQ about repair cost and demand first pick of mats. And now... us dd tank and dd... and yet we don't ask for first drops.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Wolfenrix - Sanctuary wrote: »Barbs need skills that can compete with the power hungry high damage dealing.
give Barbs Attack level +1 every 5 levels
example:
Level 5 attack lvl +1
Level 10 attack lvl +2
Level 15 attack lvl +3
Level 20 attack lvl +4
Level 25 attack lvl +5
..........etc up to .............
Level 100 attack lvl +20
the sins and bms can tank and deal high damage, they have become arrogant and we barbs need to be able to do the job of tanking that we were intended to do but we cant if we cant deal enough damage to take, keep and hold agro.
Either we barbs get to deal more damage or bms and sins have to max at 3.0-maybe 3.5 atks per secs.
Actually, there is my 2 ideas
1) barbs get attack lvl +1 every 5 lvls
2) Bms, Sins, fist weapon users max out at 3.0-3.5 aps
.........or one other massive great idea
GIVE BARBS THEIR OWN HAIR DESIGNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DDs know better than anyone about "keeping up" with the competition. Maybe we look power hungry to you because we know what it's like to not be wanted in a party, so we constantly try to better ourselves by refining our weapons and finding ways to do better damage in order for us to be more accepted into parties. DDs come at a dime a dozen and are essentially treated like **** by tanks and clerics because they think we're not "necessary."
What did we do when we couldn't keep up? We refined our weapon.
What did you do when you feel not as wanted? Well....
Anyways, Fuzzy's got the right idea.0 -
Nerf standard defences to what is nearing a pitifully low level and give barbs a toughen skin skill to boost defence for the tank class.
Watch the other classes learn control then! b:chuckle0 -
Pre-interval craze, as a BM you were close to S.O.L. to be needed for anything other than RB.
BM's were the low man on the totem pole with Archers/Wizards being far more desired.
Barb's and Clerics were a must and ALWAYS got the best drops.
BM's were considered "Filler" and 99% of the time got last pick.
"Well I guess I will take a wheel of seven and some mirages"
Barbs, meet "How BM's use to feel", spend some time and get to know each other."Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Nerf standard defences to what is nearing a pitifully low level and give barbs a toughen skin skill to boost defence for the tank class.
Watch the other classes learn control then! b:chuckle
b:surrender Barbs already have defense boost. They get three, in a decent squad. Shapeshifting Intensity (Passive), Aura of the Golden Bell, and Vanguard Spirit/Greater Protective Aura. BM's have it the same, with Marrow instead of SI. It's a nasty trade off, but still. BM's are supposed to be sub-tanks/DDs or tanks. So, that works out.
I'm going to make a thread about genocide, now. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Give the agro rating on Flesh Ream and other agro skills a good substantial boost. That's all that needs to be done.
And get rid of the freaking Jones blessings. Every time I run BH and see a sin or fist BM with +5 weapon, blood moon bracers and a JJ blessing I know there's gonna be problems. DD's shouldn't have to remove half their gear and auto-attack just to give the tank a chance to keep them alive.0 -
5.0 barbs have better survivability than any other class and close dps to bm's... why in the hell they need atk lvls?
there was no pre-interval just ppl being stupid and not considering it, everything was there in the game from day 1.SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »Pre-interval craze, as a BM you were close to S.O.L. to be needed for anything other than RB.
BM's were the low man on the totem pole with Archers/Wizards being far more desired.
Barb's and Clerics were a must and ALWAYS got the best drops.
BM's were considered "Filler" and 99% of the time got last pick.
"Well I guess I will take a wheel of seven and some mirages"
Barbs, meet "How BM's use to feel", spend some time and get to know each other.
wiz were not more desired in the past and now even less
bm were always wanted but only those competent enough to stun, buff and dragons0 -
Wolfenrix - Sanctuary wrote: »
.........or one other massive great idea
GIVE BARBS THEIR OWN HAIR DESIGNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This i totally agree with! Barbs should at least be able to use head fashion ;(
Rest of the post is just silly. If the strongest 1v1 pvp class got +20 extra attack level endgame it would just be broken.
I do think developers should boost up the aggression on Flesh Ream a bit, but doubt they give a ****.0 -
Yes, because before packs we totally had:5.0 barbs have better survivability than any other class and close dps to bm's... why in the hell they need atk lvls?
there was no pre-interval just ppl being stupid and not considering it, everything was there in the game from day 1.
wiz were not more desired in the past and now even less
bm were always wanted but only those competent enough to stun, buff and dragons
Nirvana legs
Scroll of tome
-interval capes
Easily available lunar claws. There were some lunar weps but like, 2 at the most on any given server, that's after being out for a year.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
If anything a tweek to their aggro abilities, but to increase their damage would be way out of line. On a personal thought of the aggro, I would even hold off on that.
Every MMO out there has always had the same line in terms of aggro vs surviablity. The harder you hit on average the easier you are to kill. The better you are at aggro, the less you hit for. That is why there are aggro skills, hate resets, ect.
Now if a Barb is pissed off because they are no longer desired, lol, I am sorry. Sgt hit it on the head pretty well a few posts ago comparing want/need of a BM in the past to how Barbs are feeling now.
Sorry to put it this way, but tell me, how does that feel Mr. Barb that is in the cornor QQ'ing because they are not in demand.
That said, even tho I can out do a Barb with DPS vs Aggro ratio, I still prefer a Barb to tank most things unless it is timed ( Warsong bosses ) or a high DD pulls aggro and will not let off, thus making healing ping pong, causing issues for the squad or cleric. Barbs still have a place in tanking, do not worry about that. If they want to take the time to look for it, or stop waiting for WCs of free wine, or repairs paid for. Be like the rest of the classes and be part of the squad, not god in your own head.0 -
Taleon - Heavens Tear wrote: »If anything a tweek to their aggro abilities, but to increase their damage would be way out of line. On a personal thought of the aggro, I would even hold off on that.
Every MMO out there has always had the same line in terms of aggro vs surviablity. The harder you hit on average the easier you are to kill. The better you are at aggro, the less you hit for. That is why there are aggro skills, hate resets, ect.
Now if a Barb is pissed off because they are no longer desired, lol, I am sorry. Sgt hit it on the head pretty well a few posts ago comparing want/need of a BM in the past to how Barbs are feeling now.
Sorry to put it this way, but tell me, how does that feel Mr. Barb that is in the cornor QQ'ing because they are not in demand.
That said, even tho I can out do a Barb with DPS vs Aggro ratio, I still prefer a Barb to tank most things unless it is timed ( Warsong bosses ) or a high DD pulls aggro and will not let off, thus making healing ping pong, causing issues for the squad or cleric. Barbs still have a place in tanking, do not worry about that. If they want to take the time to look for it, or stop waiting for WCs of free wine, or repairs paid for. Be like the rest of the classes and be part of the squad, not god in your own head.
How much you want to bet the OP is a **** barb with **** gears... who is just greedy and wants to get first pick again.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
I know right?ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »btw, isn't funny that mainly barbs Q.Q about not being able to keep aggro/tank etc because of -int? I guess regular DDs are used to 3rd+ drop pick/not being desired b:chuckle
Barbs never support removing -interval or any of the sorts, but they QQ about not holding aggro. They can, of course, become fist barbs but they are stubborn and not want to. But what about the magic classes? You then have the balls to say we QQ? We damn have a much better reason to QQ. b:angry
Bull****, when lower level (and thus rarely any -interval) I was wanted even less in squads than BMs for TTs as an example. BMs can amp and support the squad, it's not about THEIR dps per se, but about benefiting the whole squad.SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »Pre-interval craze, as a BM you were close to S.O.L. to be needed for anything other than RB.
+1there was no pre-interval just ppl being stupid and not considering it, everything was there in the game from day 1.
wiz were not more desired in the past and now even less
bm were always wanted but only those competent enough to stun, buff and dragons
Yes we "totally" had that. Maybe not 5aps, seeing as there was no Nirvana or Scroll of Tome, but you don't need 5aps to outDPS anything other than -int fists/claws. Plus the fact that it was a possibility smells of broken -- game mechanics and balance is not decided by community but by what's possible. (usually it's only a matter of time until the community catches up to it anyway)Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Yes, because before packs we totally had:
Nirvana legs
Scroll of tome
-interval capes
Easily available lunar claws. There were some lunar weps but like, 2 at the most on any given server, that's after being out for a year.
Chinese servers? They've been farming that stuff (including gold mats for both TT99 set bonuses) in early phases and was fairly common. Not my fault the american servers aren't hardcore enough.0 -
And yes, I do play a Barb too, take a look if you feel the need to. There should never be a situation where a Tank class ( Barb in this case or even BM if you want to look at them ) that is designed to be tanking should be able to hold aggro all the time. If they can, then the game is out of balance, there needs to be checks and balances to keep high DDs in line.0
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I hate tanking so it's all good.
Sometimes I hide my good weapon so another barb could tank. b:pleased
But I do agree that something has to be done about our out-dated argo skills for the barbs that actually rolled this class to be the tank in the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh0 -
umm im a pure tiger barb and think my damage is perfectly fine. and when i it 89 and get 1 mill coin to use my demon true form it will be even higher.
barb's damage is fine
and dont go saying i have noting to compare it to i have 9 other chars. 6 of which are above 50
again barbs damage is fineKilling level 80's with a lvl 60 is a lot more fun than killing level 90's with a level 100.0 -
RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »I hate tanking so it's all good.
Sometimes I hide my good weapon so another barb could tank. b:pleased
But I do agree that something has to be done about our out-dated argo skills for the barbs that actually rolled this class to be the tank in the game.
all I can do is /facepalm to your comment. why even play a barb then ? and why have two barbs in a squad ?
and with the exception of a few people at earily 90's, I have little issues with aggro. yeah I know that will change at 99. but there is nothing wrong with the classes if they can pull off the Barb. Their might be something wrong with the mob if any other class can continually live thru it yes. but that does not make the class messed up.
instead of looking at inv being the problem, look at what the problem might really be. pre 4.0+ in speed, why did a BM not tank ? why did a Sin not tank ? both classes are able to, any class should really be able to pull off a Barb if they go full out. Most of the time it would mean that class ( and I did say most, because that is not always the case ) go splat. fix your mobs and you might have a better solution to the problem, not the thrown out explination it is all the inv that is the problem.
oh wait... they did that. and I do not think I know many barbs at all that are willing to step foot in a 3-3 now short of doing BH. take the game back off training wheels and make it challenging again already.0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »DDs in general are a lot nicer then barbs. Back in the days where the barb tanks... they QQ about repair cost and demand first pick of mats. And now... us dd tank and dd... and yet we don't ask for first drops.
Obviously. You've proven here to be a virtual Ray of Sunshine.
RedMenace
\just because you hang with idiots, doesn't mean all of us are
\\I don't think all archers are like *you* either
\\\anyone who wants aggro that badly is welcome to it. Enjoy!A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
Robert A. Heinlein0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Yes, because before packs we totally had:
Nirvana legs
Scroll of tome
-interval capes
Easily available lunar claws. There were some lunar weps but like, 2 at the most on any given server, that's after being out for a year.
Clueless people were clueless. If someone just had believed 4-5 aps was possible people like Shinzoko could have been able to pull it off, easily. Chinese people had those builds like... four years ago? People farmed their TT99 HA + LA (since people thought half LA was good for fists...), then farmed their FB89 TM capes and Deicides and lastly got the tome. It costed a fortune if you CSed it but on the other hand, if people had done it here as well, poor ones would have started to get fists and at least -0.15 int.
Some people knew it was possible yet they were laughed at. If Trophy modes had been easier/actually here before packs achieving -0.20 int (TT99 HA + TT99 wrist + TM cape) would have been easily possible, even without int on the fists.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Taleon - Heavens Tear wrote: »Blah blah blah
Did I say inv. was the problem?
I play a barb because I like melee up close and having high survivability. Does one must like to tank in order to roll a barb? BHs at lvl 100s are usually made up of random classes so I sometimes get in squads with many barbs. Now get your reading comprehension on and drop the assumption off.
Actually, now that I think about it, interval is OPed for PvE. When every other class go for a weapon that they have no skills for and stack on interval, you know there's some major major benefits for doing so. You're in denial if you refute the fact that interval is severely OP'ed for PvE.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh0 -
You're lvl84 there's barely any -int DDs at that level.Furries - Dreamweaver wrote: »umm im a pure tiger barb and think my damage is perfectly fine. and when i it 89 and get 1 mill coin to use my demon true form it will be even higher.
barb's damage is fine
and dont go saying i have noting to compare it to i have 9 other chars. 6 of which are above 50
again barbs damage is fine0 -
Increasing aggro on flesh ream isn't really going to change much. Barb can hold aggro better... yet the 5aps BM's/sins etc can still handle whatever happens and kill quick enough for the aggro to not really matter much to them. Same as now.
What's the fix to address balance? I don't know. A solution would seem to me, to be as far away as deep space 9 is from earth, were it real.0 -
Taleon - Heavens Tear wrote: »all I can do is /facepalm to your comment. why even play a barb then ? and why have two barbs in a squad ?
.
Go do BH 100 or even Nirvana when you need fillers. Ive been in 3 barb squads, the other day i did Warsong BH with 3 clerics. Not like specific classes matters for your daily BH, you invite the guy that needs it and can hurry up.
A lot of people dont play barb for tanking! I know so many barbs that hate both pve and tanking, they play barbs for pvp mainly or other more personal reasons. But i do agree that "forgetting" the good weapon or "oops safety lock" is kinda annoying. When you know they're just being cheap with repair bills and use calamity's or some OHT axe so they dont have to tank b:angry.0
![http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/drkpl2/TaleonSigaxesFac4.jpg[/SIGPIC]](http://i904.photobucket.com/albums/ac249/drkpl2/TaleonSigaxesFac4.jpg[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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