A question to the cleric population

Lupumid - Sanctuary

So yesterday i was in a BH59 with 2 sins and 2 archers. Of course aggro was a mess, so in one particularly big pull(annoying walking mobs at glutt) , the sins stole aggro because assist attacking is for nubs. So since they were dropping like a rock, I invoke to let the cleric heal, yet she didn't. This isn't the first time it happened, every cleric seems to think i invoke for the ugly yellow Buddha lookin thing flailing above my head. I use invoke so the cleric doesn't have to heal me, and we don't end up with a meat market on the ground. I mean yeah the idiots should be assist attacking, so they deserve to die, but it waste our time and mana for you to res them and us rebuff them.

So my question is, why do so few clerics know what invoke is? I mean i learned about the cleric class cause i wanted to know what they're doing, and what i can use to my advantage. Invoke is like a clerics best friend, an invincible meat shield for 20 seconds. Answers pl0x?

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

I have no idea because I know what it is, lol.

My hubby is a barb the same level as me, so we do dungeons and stuff together a lot. (People like getting a barb and cleric for things at the same time. b:pleased)

So... I guess try to explain to them? I'm not sure honestly.

Prophete - Dreamweaver

Maybe because the cleric was scared of getting healing aggro; if the squishy sin dies just after getting an IH, the monster attacks the cleric, and cleric is really squishy.
If the sin HP was still ok, cleric should have thrown in a IH maybe..
Still, it's a waste of mana to try to heal them all while there is a barb in the squad; they should just learn to control their DPS.

GenericBrand - Archosaur

Honestly, when I was in the BH59 level range I do not recall ever seeing a barbarian use invoke (not even for messy pulls/aggro). The cleric probably had no idea what it was. It's a common failing of BH squads. Everyone just assumes every other member of the squad knows your entire skill set, what your plan is at any given moment, and exactly what to do when you use a certain skill.

I know there's not always time to explain clearly when things turn rough but communication is your friend. Even if it's after the fact b:pleased

Also the healing aggro from the assassin that was mentioned before me is highly likely as well xD

Lupumid - Sanctuary

Prophete - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Maybe because the cleric was scared of getting healing aggro; if the squishy sin dies just after getting an IH, the monster attacks the cleric, and cleric is really squishy.
If the sin HP was still ok, cleric should have thrown in a IH maybe..
Still, it's a waste of mana to try to heal them all while there is a barb in the squad; they should just learn to control their DPS.

I used roar before hand. I never run into a group of mobs without roaring. I also always have alpha male in case that happens.

GenericBrand - Archosaur wrote: »

Honestly, when I was in the BH59 level range I do not recall ever seeing a barbarian use invoke (not even for messy pulls/aggro). The cleric probably had no idea what it was. It's a common failing of BH squads. Everyone just assumes every other member of the squad knows your entire skill set, what your plan is at any given moment, and exactly what to do when you use a certain skill.

I know there's not always time to explain clearly when things turn rough but communication is your friend. Even if it's after the fact b:pleased

Also the healing aggro from the assassin that was mentioned before me is highly likely as well xD

Well my point is, the giant yellow yelling thing should be a cue to stop healing me. So is it a case of fail clerics or expecting fail barbs? Also i remember using invoke as i ran towards wyvern in BH51. Some idiot house cats like to save their sparks to double spark uselessly though.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

"Don't heal me heal the squad"

That took 1 second to type lol (:

vristion

Well I can say at those levels there ARE still people learning....

For one, there a several yellowy glowy sparkly things that seem to **** out of all sorts of critters at once when something like a bad pull happens.. Even if the still learning cleric knew what invoke was, they could have a HUGE chance of missing it....not to mention where their camera angle may have been at the second you cast it.

And lets say for the sake of this game's future that person is just new to the game, first character, first set of skillz and so forth, they like so many people before them, you, me etc has yet to learn from our mistakes. Not all of us take the time to research like we feel we should. So take it with a grain of salt, and hope eventually they catch on and become awesome clerics in later more challenging content.

TsarBomba - Heavens Tear

"So my question is, why do so few clerics know what invoke is? I mean i learned about the cleric class cause i wanted to know what they're doing, and what i can use to my advantage. Invoke is like a clerics best friend, an invincible meat shield for 20 seconds. Answers pl0x?"

I learned about the more important barb skills from my friend (who actually was a friend, not someone you'd hit up when you need a barb). But then, not many people talk to people they meet in game on their friendlist just for a nice chat =/ Perhaps that's why? I guess next time you could tell your squad about your skills - what they look like, and what they do and emergency plans etc.

Given your situation, particularly if the sins/archers can't handle the aggro they drew, and there's 4 of them, I'd probably only pick one of the squishies to heal - probably the one with most DPS. They would probably die before IH kicked in, squad heal takes too long to chan and they'd probably all die before it cast. The only heal that would save them is wellspring, because it's fast and instant. But target only. After the adds die I then waste my mp and the squad's time by ressing the 3 other squishies -.- which could have been avoided if squishies attacked the same thing the barb is attacking.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

vristion is a 110% correct

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

This is why I have 3 venos, a wiz, sin, Cleric, BM, and archer. To learn how other classes work.

I ran out of spaces for a barb and psy.

One veno is a Mage, another is LA, and the last is FF only HA/fists (rarely fists). I may be deleting the HA veno and making a barb though... Since I'm leveling my Cleric more than my main veno right now, makes sense to learn about Barb skills.

Meyki - Sanctuary

Lupumid - Sanctuary wrote: »

So my question is, why do so few clerics know what invoke is?

Nobody is perfect. When you see this, tell them what invoke is. I didnt know what invoke is till my early 80s. Then something similar happened in TT2-2 at Astralwalker and barb explained me.

Shaylamis - Raging Tide

im barely know what is invoke really.. or what that do.. nobody teached me that and i must research about it..

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

ecatomb.net, look up all the skills

Klizzahrd - Lost City

There are many vids on Youtube of people demonstrating what each skill looks like.
Its nice to read ab them, but its just as important to know what they look like so you can recognize them.


Here is a nice link that shows their skills so you can recognize them
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtvofdlwLC0

StreamElf - Sanctuary

Meyki - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nobody is perfect. When you see this, tell them what invoke is. I didnt know what invoke is till my early 80s. Then something similar happened in TT2-2 at Astralwalker and barb explained me.

Same here, only i learned it in a gamma (:

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

i didnt see invoke there lol

Angel_Mew - Raging Tide

Only reason I know about it is I do heavy research into this game.

Votum_Laeto - Heavens Tear

Lupumid - Sanctuary wrote: »

So my question is, why do so few clerics know what invoke is?

1. They haven't played a barb/haven't checked out all the skills a barb has.
2. No one ever explained to them what invoke does and/or what it looks like.

One of my boyfriend's characters is a barb near my level and we're usually playing the game together while on the phone. If he doesn't tell me when he has invoked I would not know. And if he hadn't told me, I would have no idea that a barb even has that skill. Not once has anyone (barb OR any other class) said anything to me about invoke or what it does (besides my boyfriend). I still have no idea what the actual animation looks like (if someone would post a screenshot, that'd be great...or I'll get one and post it here, so others can see). When I'm the solo cleric in a squad, my eyes aren't looking at all the pretty animations coming from the barb/others fighting the mobs. I am either scanning the entire area or more likely looking at the squad list, specifically on the HP bars and buffs of ALL squad members. I'm not staring at the barb trying to figure out what skill he used.

Also, remember that just because the animation of a certain spell fills up your computer screen, don't assume that others can see it that well. I usually heal at or near max range (usually because everyone runs ahead so fast that I'm just hitting Ironheart until it's close enough to cast...), and my camera is zoomed out as far as it can go the majority of the time. This means that I am more likely to see something a mob uses then another player, lol. Also, when I played on my laptop (fortunately, not any more!), I could use only the lowest graphic settings, which means I could miss the animations of certain spells/skills.

If you want to help (this applies to all), before starting the instance, ask your cleric (and veno, who should know what it looks like so they can send a spark afterward) (though PM or squad chat) if they know what invoke looks like. If they don't...take the time to show them before starting everything. Trust me, they will appreciate it. One of the most annoying things about squads (both random & faction) is the fact that everyone is always in such a hurry to do everything that no one actually takes the time to explain fairly basic and useful things. Even if a cleric has taken the initiative and looked up all the barb skills to know that barbs have invoke, unless they actually see it in action (preferably without the distraction of being in the middle of a fight...) they would have no idea what it does look like.

Lupumid - Sanctuary wrote: »

Some idiot house cats like to save their sparks to double spark uselessly though.

Or maybe they like to save their sparks for Flesh Ream...just a thought. b:chuckle

Shaylamis - Raging Tide wrote: »

im barely know what is invoke really.. or what that do.. nobody teached me that and i must research about it..

Invoke is actually shortened name for the skill called "Invoke the Spirit". It's a level 59 skill with only 1 level, that has the following effect: All damage taken will be reduced by 90% and movement speed is also reduced by 50%, for 20 seconds. It costs the barb 2 sparks, has a cooldown of 1 minute, and has a channel + cast time of 3 seconds. It is only available in tiger form. As a side note, it is also useful for a barb to use it because it helps him save on repairs.

Lupumid - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well my point is, the giant yellow yelling thing should be a cue to stop healing me. So is it a case of fail clerics or expecting fail barbs?

I don't think it's fail on anyone's part (ever heard of positive thinking? :P), but I do think in this cases like this it's the barb's responsibility to share with the cleric what their skill does. It's THEIR skill, after all. I've taken the time to explain BB & RB to people who don't know about them, as well as making it a point to use the skill(s) while I'm with them. I haven't told them to look it up themselves, or any of that ****. Just looking up a skill & reading what it does doesn't mean you understand why/when/how it's used/useful & most it definitely doesn't mean you will recognize the skill when it's used (BB/RB are kinda hard to miss, lol, but for general, non-AoE skills I don't really pay attention to any of them when they are used, there are more important things to worry about).

Also, do you realize that anyone running across this post would still have no idea what invoke does until they read my post? 16 responses & no one bothered to actually explain what it does b:sad

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i didnt see invoke there lol

Neither did I. I watched the entire video 2x specifically looking for that skill to be shown. And on that note, I will try to post a video of a barb using invoke later today.

Aya__ - Heavens Tear

1) maybe they didnt notice sin had aggro
2) maybe they didnt know turtle animation and had no idea what OP did, i ve seen people who didnt know their own skills let alone other classess
3) maybe they were afraid to let go of tank even for a while
4) maybe they had problems with switching between squad members fast
5) maybe they were afraid of heal aggro (OP said he roared so that's back to point 2 - not knowing other classess skills)
6) maybe they didnt care about dders - i ve seen clerics like that too
7) maybe they were like me, if i was going to focus on someone else for a while i would warn tank first, so barb suddenly turtling with almost full hp would surely surprise me a lot....
im not saying i wouldnt heal that sin - i probably would, but i wouldnt expect turtle from barb for it, stacked ihs would keep him healthy for these 2-3 sec i would need for switching to sin, casting wellspring and switching back to ihing barb. and if sin died before i did this and res would be needed - then i would have lots of time to type what im going to do and that barb would be on their own for few seconds...

Lupumid - Sanctuary

Votum_Laeto - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Or maybe they like to save their sparks for Flesh Ream...just a thought. b:chuckle

With normal attacks and beastial rage i get enough chi while FR is on cool down to spam ream. The only reason i would ever freak about chi is if I'm at 0 and someone goes double spark happy. Quoting from a fellow barb, "if your having trouble with chi, your not playing your barb right".

Also, i know what BB and RB do, i know what all the skills in this game do. Maybe if we didn't fly through the 60-70s we could spend a little more time learning about the people around us. If you don't know what a skill does it's nobody's fault but your own for not asking.

GenericBrand - Archosaur

Gonna go out on a limb here and assume you didn't bother to explain anything to the cleric after the fact b:shutup

Swannx - Archosaur

Just type "ress." People aren't mind readers! Especially not boyfriends... b:chuckle

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

I am guilty of this as well and I do have Barb and know some good one on Sanc.I don't know what the skill animation looks like as I possibly never seen it used.I could of been busy looking at that battle field.I don't go out and duel with Barbs hardly like a simple boss kill.

My Barb is not at the lvl to acquire this skill don't know if it will ever be.

Klizzahrd - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i didnt see invoke there lol

I didn't post that to show invoke. That was to just a video that helped me play my cleric a bit better.

Was trying to be nice and thought perhaps others might find it useful. sheesh.

Votum_Laeto - Heavens Tear

Here are the pictures I've gotten.

Lupumid - Sanctuary wrote: »

This isn't the first time it happened, every cleric seems to think i invoke for the ugly yellow Buddha lookin thing flailing above my head.

Above are 2 pictures where Invoke is clearly being used while fighting a boss in the outside world. Unless you zoom in to look closely, you can't even see the 'Buddha' guy at all. I'm willing to bet that it's significantly harder to see in instances, whether it's at a boss or not.

GenericBrand - Archosaur wrote: »

Gonna go out on a limb here and assume you didn't bother to explain anything to the cleric after the fact b:shutup

b:thanks

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

Not to mention it is rather dark in instances to see the animation.

Flickerfae - Sanctuary

I'm going to add another point to the 'clerics don't watch animations' tally.

Well, that's not entirely accurate. We watch animations, to see who the ranged DDers are hitting in case their targets switch aggro. We watch boss animations, particularly bosses who have known aoe or effect attacks that we need to anticipate. We watch the barb for roar/flesh ream/etc to make sure that he's gotten the aggro of all the mobs in range before we start healing.

Also, we watch 5 HP bars.

Also, we watch 5 status effect sets in case someone needs a quick purify, or if buffs need to be restacked.

Also, we watch for roaming mobs.

Also, we keep an eye on where the other members are, in case someone wanders out of heal range or into a set of said wandering mobs.

Also, we check the chat box, in case someone has a special request or needs to afk or whatever.

And, oh yeah, we need to glance at our own bars every now and then, just in case we catch damage we didn't expect.

So, yeah. While barb animations are a really handy tool to watch, there is a whole lot of other stuff clerics are doing at any one time, so it's really easy to miss something. I can't tell you how many time I've glanced at the health bars, only to check back with my barb and realize I'm not sure whether he roared or not at the 5 mobs attacking him. Animations are easy to miss, particularly at distance.

So yeah, while I am also one of the people who didn't know what invoke was until this thread, so I find it very likely that your cleric didn't either. However, I doubt that even explaining it to the cleric beforehand will help. When things go sideways like that, the cleric is frantically calculating aggro and healing speeds, watching health bars, and button mashing... watching the barb becomes the last thing the cleric thinks of doing... because, hey, you're the one with the stacked IHs, so you'll be fine.

Try typing it in the chat box, if you have the time, otherwise, just chalk it up to one of those things that just happens in instance from time to time. Accidents happen, and accepting that is part of playing the game.

Healladiin - Harshlands

Lupumid - Sanctuary wrote: »

So yesterday i was in a BH59 with 2 sins and 2 archers. Of course aggro was a mess, so in one particularly big pull(annoying walking mobs at glutt) , the sins stole aggro because assist attacking is for nubs. So since they were dropping like a rock, I invoke to let the cleric heal, yet she didn't. This isn't the first time it happened, every cleric seems to think i invoke for the ugly yellow Buddha lookin thing flailing above my head. I use invoke so the cleric doesn't have to heal me, and we don't end up with a meat market on the ground. I mean yeah the idiots should be assist attacking, so they deserve to die, but it waste our time and mana for you to res them and us rebuff them.

So my question is, why do so few clerics know what invoke is? I mean i learned about the cleric class cause i wanted to know what they're doing, and what i can use to my advantage. Invoke is like a clerics best friend, an invincible meat shield for 20 seconds. Answers pl0x?

what I do when I see the sins (and especially sins below lvl 80 srry all u sin nubs on harshlands) start spiking like crazy(I mean their health drops to 20% in 2 seconds like it always does) is I stop healing them and just let them die. if the sins don't force stealth to save their own posterior hind partsb:byeb:bye then they deserve to become carne asada on the floor. so when aggro is a mess and I see people start spiking like that and I KNOW that tossing IHB's around like government stimulus money isn't going to work I just let them die. what I do do is I concentrate on the tank. he's the only one I need to keep alive. the rest of you...........even fellow clerics if u pull aggro............ARE EXPENDABLE TO ME.
HEALLADIIN lvl 71 cleric harshlands

Votum_Laeto - Heavens Tear

My thoughts exactly, Flickerfae

GenericBrand - Archosaur

Fastest way for me to know when the barbarian has used invoke is when I see the damage reduction status effect by their name in squad list (red/white icon). Most of the time I don't even see the animation when it's used as others have mentioned.

And the only reason I know this is because someone took the time during my first TT run to show me and I happened to notice the added icons after the 5th time >.> so, yeah.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

funny that we are supposed to know barbs skills when they dont know it even


why 90% barbs dont wait for purify after invoke?