Random:FCC and Venos

Segreta - Sanctuary

Okie so its maintenance time at the moment,so I was feeling like writing a random post.

This is about Venomancer and FCC(Especially,not surprising,Herc-Venos and Non-Herc-Venos).

I don't want put this as a rant,but just as an"Analysis",of the matter.

Point 1 - Boss Tanking
Some(If not most),think that an Herc is required in FCC for tanking bosses,but I guess most people have no idea of a Glacial Walker's capabilities.In detail:

-First Boss(The one that spawn explosive mines)-
Tankable...until you have to recall your pet because of the mines,yes even Herc-venos have to do that(Unless maybe their Herc have blessing of the pack).

-Second Boss(The one that spawn 2 Dragoons)-
Tankable,also tanked him + 1 Dragoon without too much troubles.

-Third Boss(The freezed guy)-
Tankable as long as his agro dosen't switch like crazy every 10 secs.

-Fourth Boss(Bishop Spawner)-
Tankable as long as I don't get sleep(Which dosen't really happen often,did more than one time without even got sleep once)

-Fifth Boss(The SUPER MIGHTY crazy dude)-
Tankable until I have to recall my pet due to his deadly aoe(And yes unlike an Herc tanks to Roar I can re-take agro when I want).

-Sixth Boss(The good-night-I-put-ya-to-sleep-feel-my-weak-aoe)-
NOT Tankable since it put asleep continuously(Even if some skilled barbs/BM can cancel some if not most of his aoes).

-Seventh Boss(Exp room boss,hands-spawner)-
Tankable,not much to say.

-Eights Boss(The Pole-apprentice)-
Not tankable,oh wait,herc can't tank this one either b:surrender

-Nineth & Tenth boss(Huge Phoenix and the oversized Snowman)
They're not tankable because of their Seals which prevent Heal spamming,would be tankable otherwise,yes Herc can tank these 2.

Point 2 - "I Need Veno/Herc for FCC"

Funny thing is the other day I asked someone in world chat why he Herc-its-so important in FCC and he basically said"I don't known",guess these dudes are epic facepalm,they request something and they don't even known why b:surrender.

Not to mention that in most of lv.75>95 squads I see characters having equipment worth not even half of an Herc and yet these people wants you to have one,which,again,its kinda funny.

Point 3 - What you can do with an Herc in a FCC
Basically,with an Herc,you don't have to heal-spamming so you can also send some more Amplify Damage and Myriad Rainbow which surely helps,or at least this is what I thought,since some days ago when I found that calling back(By set to manual and then attack again),the pet gives enough time to cast an amplify damage too.
Not to mention that with my GW's Roar I can get agro back even if my pet dyes,and that's the agro-controlling for me which an Herc can't have without sacrificing his only avaiable attack skill.

And yes Herc's Reflect does kinda some useful Damage with a GW can partially compensate with Flesh Realm + some else Lv.5 skill.

---

Again,this is not a rant,just my little analysis of the matter,I found out that is way better to form a squad myself rather than explaining the random-clueless-dude-asking-for-herc-withouth-having-an-idea-of-what-he-is-asking that an Herc is over-rated for FCC.

uhm that's it,maintenance time has just started guess I'll do something else now.

b:bye

Wahayv_Adage - Sanctuary

+1 to your post. I have a herc, but when playing my 2nd veno, an LA veno (level 8x or so) I use my armored bear to tank. It works out VERY nice, and I have surprised many doubtful (and not to mention... rude) people. Don't let the ignorant people get you down.

As I see it, you can have the best pet in the game, but if you don't have the skills to manage your character successfully, that epic pet won't mean anything. Happy gaming.

CaitSidhe - Harshlands

Um. Quick note. The only boss a Herc cannot tank in FC is the 8th Boss.

All other bosses can be tanked with a herc as long as you have quick reflexes when calling your pet back

Also, I remember my first FC without a Herc, I just had my Stoney (Magimite) with it I was able to pretty much do the same as with the Herc, just with alot more healing and screaming at the computer :P

Edyn - Dreamweaver

heya,

Wahayv you think i could do same with my cub? keep it up to my lvl, but i dont have an armored bear atm, and dunno if ill try to get on yet since im happy with my litlle cub.

Wahayv_Adage - Sanctuary

I'm not sure what the phys and magical defenses are on the cub, but I use the armored bear's skills as well as his basic defenses to help soften the blows from bosses.

Easiest way to find out: Try tanking, but make sure you got a good barb with you to take aggro if it doesnt work out so well.

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

Just a small note... Having a herc or not having one is really only important to Non-venos.. o.o; Most people who PLAY Venos know that not having a herc doesn't mean you can't do things. YOu know that little white Bear? Yeah, its beast. I have a herc and I love my herc to death. He simply makes MY life easier as a veno. While you have to spam heal to tank without one, I only have to heal every now and again. So lets not, let this boil into a Herc-Veno Bashing thread. Those are just as obnoxious as the "Venos without hercs Suck" threads.

Segreta - Sanctuary

CaitSidhe - Harshlands wrote: »

Um. Quick note. The only boss a Herc cannot tank in FC is the 8th Boss.

All other bosses can be tanked with a herc as long as you have quick reflexes when calling your pet back

Also, I remember my first FC without a Herc, I just had my Stoney (Magimite) with it I was able to pretty much do the same as with the Herc, just with alot more healing and screaming at the computer :P

Yes but I found out that re-calling(uhm making the pet disappear and appear again),its more effective rather than set your pet to manual to make him walk back to you(Yes Herc is way faster than a GW so its easier with it),especially at Adawolf-bosse,tried many times to make my pet walk back,but its too slow to get out of his aoe in time^^(Especially when its using a skill,just won't respond fast enough O.o).

But yes,I can do the re-calling thing since with Roar its not a prob getting agro back.

Now I think about it,with Tough as Third skill(So would be Bash-F.Realm-Tough-Roar),I would be able to throw a few attacks too other than Amplify & Myriad(This one dosen't even have channelling or animation o.O).

PS

I want to say,again,if wasn't already obvious,that Im NOT saying that asking for a Herc Veno only its unreasonable,if you're spending YOUR money on Teles to form a FCC squad you're free to choose whoever you like I won't argue.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Great post Segreta b:victory
This should clear up many doubts and if anyone will ever say "normal pets can't tank", I'll definitely send them check this thread.

I had done a couple of FCCs before getting a Hercules and it went just fine. I was even asked to tank a few bosses and did it successfully with my Armored Bear and the Shaodu cub (my cub has roar so I used it when the Barbarian and the Blademaster died at slashy mighty). They seemed to be surprised with my Cub then because I did save my team from a squad wipe and tanked it successfully. I miss roar b:sad

Venomancers should be encouraged to join FCC. If they are not welcomed then they should go look for anothern squad or make one themselves! There are people out there who won't mind. Those who claim that they can't survive the bosses unless the Hercules tanks (like the bishop boss) should stop doing FCC and go learn how to play their class....

I remember once a Barbarian admitted that he doesn't tank because he was lazy...b:sweat

Alphae - Lost City

It's pretty common knowledge among venos that all (except 1) boss in frost can be tanked by free tank pets, rare spawn tank pets, and the herc.

I rage SO MUCH sometimes when I see people generalizing about herc venos vs. non-herc venos. A herc (or nix) is just a piece of elite gear like anyone else might work for, like a BM/sin might work for interval cape, like a wizzie might work for lunar rings, like anyone might work for nirvana gear or weapon. Do you need a nirvana wep or armor to succeed end-game? No. Does it help? Sure. Is it gear? Of course.

Herc is GEAR, NOTHING more, NOTHING less.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

+10, great post

And good contributions all.

Unfortunately hercless venos being left out of FC squads has nothing to do with actual gameplay or a real need. Whenever i've debated this it has come to either the investment made on herc somehow proving skill or the idea that herc provides a better safety margin, which is outright ridiculous for the 90+ squads that usually run this instance...

Many people have become unconcerned with matters of speed or efficiency, and simply try to impose their point of view regardless of reason. This is unfortunate since it has fostered divission and leads to players being excluded from gameplay without good reasons. The worst of it is that the most vocal people taking the "herc is required" position usually don't play veno themselves or only do so in a pet cleric capacity. You'll find most herc'ed venos actually suportive on this, they know better.

Edit; I forgot to credit Gwendolyne with first bringing up that this is rarely an issue amongst venos themselves.

BloodyQueen - Dreamweaver

I FC'ed before and after i got my herc i don't think it made a huge difference. Getting herc didn't make me more wanted or unwanted and now with the squads i get they often have 2bms and a sin or two and takes few secs to get bosses down. They often get bm/sin instead of barb and still want herced venos and i rly don't get why... when bms hf one ofther another and with every1 sparking i can hardly hold aggro with herc and when boss fight lasts few secs it's pointless... b:surrender so it's true that ppl don't know why they want herc venos when they can get any other veno with any other pet even with an antelope. b:laugh They think they can save repair costs with herc tanking but when they steal aggro...

I remember once when i was still in my 80s we were at fourth boss and barb told me to tank with herc i just went ahead and attacked then he kept FR'ing boss stealing aggro and was yelling at me to tank x.x b:laugh i so LOL'ed at that. Seems they all don't know what they want. b:surrender

Gwendolynne - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

+10, great post

And good contributions all.

Unfortunately hercless venos being left out of FC squads has nothing to do with actual gameplay or a real need. Whenever i've debated this it has come to either the investment made on herc somehow proving skill or the idea that herc provides a better safety margin, which is outright ridiculous for the 90+ squads that usually run this instance...

Many people have become unconcerned with matters of speed or efficiency, and simply try to impose their point of view regardless of reason. This is unfortunate since it has fostered divission and leads to players being excluded from gameplay without good reasons. The worst of it is that the most vocal people taking the "herc is required" position usually don't play veno themselves or only do so in a pet cleric capacity. You'll find most herc'ed venos actually suportive on this, they know better.

Edit; I forgot to credit Gwendolyne with first bringing up that this is rarely an issue amongst venos themselves.

Yes, exactly. We as Venos tend to stick together on the whole Herc is just like +ing a Weapon. You know? My herc = Your GW +10. You could really look at it that way. The only difference is.... I had to farm for months for my Herc, THen level it, and then put it to practice in learning how to use it. But I still love my variety of pets. I use my Kowlin a lot for Pulling, I use my Shaodou Cub and my Wolfkin all teh time too. We're Venos we love Pets b:dirty. People who wanna exclude you because you lack some OP Pet... Meh forget about them. There are several people who will take you, its all in the matter of finding them.

Also, I want to note about the Unsummoning of Pets as a way to save them from death in a running situation, thats pretty awesome. I always play my Pets on manual and hot key their skills like a secondary set to my own... Even in Nirvana I can get my pet back to me safely without unsommoning it (in most cases), its all in learning the Cues and timing it right. I think that as a whole, its situational, and any veno who can know when its a good time to put it away o save it, or when she can just call him back (in the interest of saving time) without it interrupting HER ability to do her job, is a damn good veno, Regardless of what pet they are using.

Pets are simply tools, like someone else said in another post, they are jsut gear, and having them doesn't make you good for anything. I know several Venos who run around with Hercs even at level 95+ who still don't know what some of their foxform skills do, or who don't Amp/Degen when its appropriate. Its sickening, we're the BEST debuffing class in the game and a lot of Venos don't utilize it because they have to switch forms.. o.o;;;

To me those are the Venos you don't want in your parties. People should be WC'ing (Need Skilled Debuff Veno for FF), instead of Herc Veno... XD Most DD take aggro at higher levels anyway.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

+10, great post

And good contributions all.

Unfortunately hercless venos being left out of FC squads has nothing to do with actual gameplay or a real need. Whenever i've debated this it has come to either the investment made on herc somehow proving skill or the idea that herc provides a better safety margin, which is outright ridiculous for the 90+ squads that usually run this instance...

Many people have become unconcerned with matters of speed or efficiency, and simply try to impose their point of view regardless of reason. This is unfortunate since it has fostered divission and leads to players being excluded from gameplay without good reasons. The worst of it is that the most vocal people taking the "herc is required" position usually don't play veno themselves or only do so in a pet cleric capacity. You'll find most herc'ed venos actually suportive on this, they know better.

Edit; I forgot to credit Gwendolyne with first bringing up that this is rarely an issue amongst venos themselves.

Manray , Desdi , my veno wants to be come just like u b:chuckleb:thanks

Mauntille - Heavens Tear

Great post.

A couple tidbits I might add:

On the sleep boss, Messenger, you should be able to tank him regardless of if you have a herc if you prep for it. He's speaks in common chat right before his sleep/aoe and does this combo about every 30 seconds. Level 10 Adrennaline Surge (sleep immune) will match this cooldown and you should get 2-3 casts before you run out of energy. For those couple you'll miss with the genie, you can use apoth pots and sparking to stay awake. If you're really worried about it, coordinating with a party member to have them cast Absolute Domain would help as well. Definitely takes more effort, but hey, it's more fun that way. Also, his sleep doesn't always hit everyone, so if you miss immunity on one cast or two, you might get lucky.

Myriad should be used regardless of what pet you're tanking. It's an instant cast so it shouldn't be slowing you down at all. Fox myriad is particularly useful on pulls and the elementos. If you're lucky, you can land a break on both elementos before starting your DD helping out both sides.

I haven't verified this myself, but I've heard that stowing your pet can detract from the xp you get on the bosses, so you may want to be a little wary doing this if your squad is xp-centric. Really, no one shoud be complaining about xp on an FF run, but I've heard of venos getting yelled at for this.

Don't be afraid to keep some chi for yourself. Lending is awesome when you're throwing sparks to people who are doing their jobs and deserve it, but I hate people who take a veno along as a free chi-pot. A well timed nova is much better use of sparks than passing them to someone who is just milling about.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Great posts everyone. This is going to be a good thread.b:pleased

Segreta you should add these pieces of information on your first post. This is turning into a good guide for FCC! Ha ha and I was actually thinking of making one...you were faster!

I love FCC because it's fun. Unlike the other dungeons which are typical "stand still and press buttons" you have to use your skills in many ways (timing, thinking, reflexes) and probably Venomancers have to do the hardest part. Barbarians just press skills, clerics just press skills and need quick reflexes, DDs just press skills but Venomancers have to do much more including the pet which is like a second character (that's why I love Venomancers! ).

I always tell my squad to ask me when they need chi and that makes things a lot easier. I can manage my chi better. I've felt like I had been used a couple of times but most of my squads, luckily, were polite (always saying "if you can" or "if you have").
I would like to add the fact that being Demon/Sage helps a lot. You can use Parasitic Nova and still have a spark to pass. Lastly, I think it's important to start will full chi. You won't have to worry/waste time & skills to build it. You will be ready to pass spark and even if you use it, you'll be able to build it fast with a pet heal or two.

Mauntille's comment on the Messenger boss is a really good point and MANray_ your words are so true. I've seen those posts where you were trying to explain it...it's such an irony that they still ask for pet/herc tank even though they steal aggro anyway or have to gimp their damage and talk about 'LF people for FCC fast run" duh
Well, with the Hercules, I have noticed that it's easier to tank concerning the aggro issue. It can keep aggro better than any other tank pet because of Reflect but still....Sins, Psychics, Wizards have stolen aggro...

Originaly posted by Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear
Manray , Desdi , my veno wants to be come just like u

Thank you very much for your support Phoenix! It makes me really happy to know that there are people who appreciate my posts b:thanks

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Thanks for your kind words and for your further contributions. I'm learning a good things on this thread which i'll certainly try to put into practice on my next FC run.

tweakz

Segreta - Sanctuary wrote: »

Point 1 - Boss Tanking[/COLOR]
Some(If not most),think that an Herc is required in FCC for tanking bosses,but I guess most people have no idea of a Glacial Walker's capabilities.In detail:

-First Boss(The one that spawn explosive mines)-
Tankable...until you have to recall your pet because of the mines,yes even Herc-venos have to do that(Unless maybe their Herc have blessing of the pack).

At level 90, Herc is 8.1 m/s, GW is 6.3. Herc has better chance of getting out of trap and not placing someone else in tanking position.

-Second Boss(The one that spawn 2 Dragoons)-
Tankable,also tanked him + 1 Dragoon without too much troubles.

And you could ironwood, amp, and DD just like you could with a Herc right?

-Third Boss(The freezed guy)-
Tankable as long as his agro dosen't switch like crazy every 10 secs.

IOWs: not reliable.

-Fourth Boss(Bishop Spawner)-
Tankable as long as I don't get sleep(Which dosen't really happen often,did more than one time without even got sleep once)

IOWs: not reliable.

-Fifth Boss(The SUPER MIGHTY crazy dude)-
Tankable until I have to recall my pet due to his deadly aoe(And yes unlike an Herc tanks to Roar I can re-take agro when I want).

If you're unsummoning because the GW is that slow: then you're losing aggro and if the one who picks up aggro is on the other side of the boss: your GW is not going to use roar very quick.

-Sixth Boss(The good-night-I-put-ya-to-sleep-feel-my-weak-aoe)-
NOT Tankable since it put asleep continuously(Even if some skilled barbs/BM can cancel some if not most of his aoes).

IOWs: no

-Seventh Boss(Exp room boss,hands-spawner)-
Tankable,not much to say.

woot!

-Eights Boss(The Pole-apprentice)-
Not tankable,oh wait,herc can't tank this one either b:surrender

Since you're stretching the capabilities of a GW beyond what it's good for, we have to admit here that a Herc CAN tank it. However, it wouldn't be smooth just like the bosses above listed IOWs as "not reliable".

-Nineth & Tenth boss(Huge Phoenix and the oversized Snowman)
They're not tankable because of their Seals which prevent Heal spamming,would be tankable otherwise,yes Herc can tank these 2.

I think the bird is mag only and does fixed aoe dmg. There is no reflect for melee so you simply need a good mag/ range tank. (I used to use Eldergoth Marksman with Protect and Claw)

Point 2 - "I Need Veno/Herc for FCC"[/COLOR]

Funny thing is the other day I asked someone in world chat why he Herc-its-so important in FCC and he basically said"I don't known",guess these dudes are epic facepalm,they request something and they don't even known why b:surrender.

For the reasons you gave above alone, you should be able to see why they would be asking for a Herc. Lets give some more: Reflect dmg, less time wasted healing: more time for debuff/ dd.

Not to mention that in most of lv.75>95 squads I see characters having equipment worth not even half of an Herc and yet these people wants you to have one,which,again,its kinda funny.

That's why I tell venos that QQ about price of Herc to roll a Wiz. Wiz are much cheaper: no ammo cost, same repair cost, and more demand in FF than Hercless venos. Also, many of us would ask ourselves: why the hell are they doing FF if they still don't have a Herc?

Point 3 - What you can do with an Herc in a FCC [/COLOR]
Basically,with an Herc,you don't have to heal-spamming so you can also send some Amplify Damage and Myriad Rainbow which surely helps,or at least this is what I thought,since some days ago when I found that calling back(By set to manual and then attack again),the pet gives enough time to cast an amplify damage too.

Myriad is 0 ch/cast time. Recalling pet reduces DPS which affects aggro as well.

Not to mention that with my GW's Roar I can get agro back even if my pet dyes,and that's the agro-controlling for me which an Herc can't have without sacrificing his only avaiable attack skill.

Roar on pets sucks. I face palm every time I see a veno using it. It's like the Herc veno that starts a macro with Lucky Scarab on melee mobs.

And yes Herc's Reflect does kinda some useful Damage with a GW can partially compensate with Flesh Realm + some else Lv.5 skill.

Ok, but the bosses in FF are [?] which pretty much makes Flesh Ream on them worthless.

---

Again,this is not a rant,just my little analysis of the matter,I found out that is way better to form a squad myself rather than explaining the random-clueless-dude-asking-for-herc-withouth-having-an-idea-of-what-he-is-asking that an Herc is over-rated for FCC.

Looks like a rant to me. I've run FF a lot, and thus ended up running with other venos a lot. I see what other people's perspective is on them. Most of them are too lazy to cast Amp more than once per boss if that even with someone else tanking. Their DPS is most often horrid partly due to the fail build advice being spread by the gang of trolls on this forum. A Herc veno tend to play more serious and even if they're lazy: at least they have a Herc! Otherwise, any other class would most likely make a better choice.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Looks like a rant to me. I've run FF a lot, and thus ended up running with other venos a lot. I see what other people's perspective is on them. Most of them are too lazy to cast Amp more than once per boss if that even with someone else tanking. Their DPS is most often horrid partly due to the fail build advice being spread by the gang of trolls on this forum. A Herc veno tend to play more serious and even if they're lazy: at least they have a Herc! Otherwise, any other class would most likely make a better choice.

You were doing so well and just had to blow it on the last paragraph... Constructive posts are always welcome, even if we don't like the tone or conclussions they come to, but this attacks are just unacceptable. I will not be baited into flaming on this forums again, if you're looking for that let's take it up to general because, regardless of what you may think, this subforum is actually helpful and most of it's posters genuinely open to civil debate. What is it with you nowadays? I hate to say it but Tear is right, this isn't your usual Modus Operandi.

I guess everyone is a troll on this forums except for you, is that it? I'll say it again politely, please, if you want to be a part of the discussion do so in civil terms and spare us your little remarks. Now, if you want to flame you know where to find me. It's not the first time i have had to take you down and i'm more than willing to have another go if it will buy us some more months of quiet. Bring it on. b:sin

Silest - Sanctuary

Words cannot express how TIRED I am of that guy...

Anyway, I didnt know the other pets could handle themselves in FCC(besides armored bear). That's pretty impressive.

And yeah, herc is making barbs lazy. Very. Lazy.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You were doing so well and just had to blow it on the last paragraph... Constructive posts are always welcome, even if we don't like the tone or conclussions they come to, but this attacks are just unacceptable. I will not be baited into flaming on this forums again, if you're looking for that let's take it up to general because, regardless of what you may think, this subforum is actually helpful and most of it's posters genuinely open to civil debate. What is it with you nowadays? I hate to say it but Tear is right, this isn't your usual Modus Operandi.

I guess everyone is a troll on this forums except for you, is that it? I'll say it again politely, please, if you want to be a part of the discussion do so in civil terms and spare us your little remarks. Now, if you want to flame you know where to find me. It's not the first time i have had to take you down and i'm more than willing to have another go if it will buy us some more months of quiet. Bring it on. b:sin

weee we are successful trolls. b:victory

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Looks like a rant to me. I've run FF a lot, and thus ended up running with other venos a lot. I see what other people's perspective is on them. Most of them are too lazy to cast Amp more than once per boss if that even with someone else tanking. Their DPS is most often horrid partly due to the fail build advice being spread by the gang of trolls on this forum. A Herc veno tend to play more serious and even if they're lazy: at least they have a Herc! Otherwise, any other class would most likely make a better choice.

While I don't agree so much with that 'fail build' part, I do think that very often people see a herced veno as a repair cost saver, nothing else. I haven't done that many FCCs yet but I have not seen a single veno use amp there, ever. Herced or not.

Segreta - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

QQ Stuff

Okie let's say something

-
You're assuming in your whole post that what I was trying to say that a Veno with a GW is as good as Veno with an Herc which I don't remember to have said anywhere,thus making your whole tone easily marked as flaming.
-
You said things that I already said myself when I talked about the capability to dosen't have to spam heal(And thus having more time to Debuff&DD),so you ignored something I said and you purposely put something presuming that I didn't said,that's another flaming technique.

Taken from the first post:
Basically,with an Herc,you don't have to heal-spamming so you can also cast some more Amplify Damage and Myriad Rainbow which surely helps,

Roar on pets sucks. I face palm every time I see a veno using it. It's like the Herc veno that starts a macro with Lucky Scarab on melee mobs.

Not all bosses run like crazy like that FCC boss,you're saying a general expression"Roar on pet sucks",regardless,which is absolutely not true when you have to steal agro from the squishy Sin,either you don't known these basic,either your pet never died in a boss,either your pet never lost agro,or either you're just flaming.

That's why I tell venos that QQ about price of Herc to roll a Wiz. Wiz are much cheaper: no ammo cost, same repair cost,

Lol what?,Wiz are much cheaper than Venos since when lmao,I have a Wiz and it eats tons of pots not talking about he dosen't have a pet that saves his repair bill as you mentioned,this one was a pretty fail one.

y the hell are they doing FF if they still don't have a Herc?

LMAO Epic facepalm I don't even wanna comment this one.

Myriad is 0 ch/cast time. Recalling pet reduces DPS which affects aggro as well

You have to recall(Or just make him walk back),your fatty herc at Boss 1 and at Adawolf one(And thus reducing DPS),don't make me laugh.

For the reasons you gave above alone, you should be able to see why they would be asking for a Herc. Lets give some more: Reflect dmg, less time wasted healing: more time for debuff/ dd.

A good skilled pet Out-damaged most low 90s DDs,and keep agro as well as an Herc(Actually my pet steal from same-level Hercs all the time),why should I worry to do EVEN more damage if Im already the biggest DD out there?,pretend from others to dela more DPS rather than QQ at me,at 100+ its another story your Herc won't even be able to keep agro.

Also

(From the first post)
And yes Herc's Reflect does kinda some useful Damage with a GW can partially compensate with Flesh Realm + some else Lv.5 skill.

Uhm look I already wrote what you just said and you either didn't care to read or just pretend that I didn't write anything about Reflect does useful damage.

Another fail hit uh

If you're unsummoning because the GW is that slow: then you're losing aggro and if the one who picks up aggro is on the other side of the boss: your GW is not going to use roar very quick.

That boss hit like a little girl if someone gets a few hits and die from him before my GW gets agro back he should go get a freaking decent equip lol.

And you could ironwood, amp, and DD just like you could with a Herc right?

I never said that,again,you're flaming.

At level 90, Herc is 8.1 m/s, GW is 6.3. Herc has better chance of getting out of trap and not placing someone else in tanking position.

What's your problem to let other tank that nub boss for some secs?,you have to tank all and anything?,you're talking like without your herc tanking everyone dies in a few hits lol,you're too much full of yourself Herc or not Herc FCC bosses are easy to tank by almost any melee class.

omg omg someone else is tanking my freaking herc have to tank QQ

IOWs: not reliable.

Again,you're assuming that,if my pet dies/lose agro for some secs its 100% squad wiped the world will end everyone will die fire will rain from the sky and the mountain will crack lol I rarely see anyone die in a FCC at 90+ because have to tank for some seconds.

woot!

Provoking tone.

Looks like a rant to me. I've run FF a lot, and thus ended up running with other venos a lot. I see what other people's perspective is on them. Most of them are too lazy to cast Amp more than once per boss if that even with someone else tanking. Their DPS is most often horrid partly due to the fail build advice being spread by the gang of trolls on this forum. A Herc veno tend to play more serious and even if they're lazy: at least they have a Herc! Otherwise, any other class would most likely make a better choice.

That's because you're too used to rant that you can't tell the difference from a simple analysis(Proven),than a rant.And the second part of that its full of steryotypes.

Now,if you want to hear a Rant here I go.

You can't think for one second that the time/money you spent to getting an herc was almost equally-matched by someone like me that its using a free pet,that's unacceptable for you and you have to proven to me,but for real you want to prove yourself,that your decision was right and its not possible someone else is doing almost the same as you with wayyyy less effort.You just want be in the center of the situation and always love to have everything under control,because you just don't trust anyone.
That's egocentric,if you want put this in one word.

And to finish:
You're the Typical Herc'ed Veno I described in my Parody Post
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=883322

You enter in a discussion where the only point that a non-Herc pet can"Perform",in a FCC just fine,and YOU come here and put on the never-ending QQ drama explaining us noobs how awesome is your Herc when nobody said that a non-herc Pet can perform in a FCC just as well.

And this proves you're just here for trolling.

tweakz

Segreta - Sanctuary wrote: »

Okie let's say something

-
You're assuming in your whole post that what I was trying to say that a Veno with a GW is as good as Veno with an Herc which I don't remember to have said anywhere,thus making your whole tone easily marked as flaming.

This is you:

"Again,this is not a rant,just my little analysis of the matter,I found out that is way better to form a squad myself rather than explaining the random-clueless-dude-asking-for-herc-withouth-having-an-idea-of-what-he-is-asking that an Herc is over-rated for FCC."

Not all bosses run like crazy like that FCC boss,you're saying a general expression"Roar on pet sucks",regardless,which is absolutely not true when you have to steal agro from the squishy Sin,either you don't known these basic,either your pet never died in a boss,either your pet never lost agro,or either you're just flaming.

Assassins have many evasion techniques of their own: they don't need your help. Barbs can do aggro resets.

Lol what?,Wiz are much cheaper than Venos since when lmao,I have a Wiz and it eats tons of pots not talking about he dosen't have a pet that saves his repair bill as you mentioned,this one was a pretty fail one.

Probably fail build. I have wiz also. b:bye

A good skilled pet Out-damaged most low 90s DDs,and keep agro as well as an Herc(Actually my pet steal from same-level Hercs all the time),why should I worry to do EVEN more damage if Im already the biggest DD out there?,pretend from others to dela more DPS rather than QQ at me,at 100+ its another story your Herc won't even be able to keep agro.

DPS doesn't equate to aggro. Nice try fooling any noobs out there.

Have fun with your very own troll post. b:bye

Silest - Sanctuary

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I haven't done that many FCCs yet but I have not seen a single veno use amp there, ever. Herced or not.

Because you haven't played with me~

And they should be using amp+extreme poison and ironwood ~_~ that combo pretty much turns DD's into Gods.. Those bosses have all that hp, and you don't herc tank EVERY boss in FCC. So there's no excuse to not use amp =/.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Even if the Hercules is tanking they have no excuse for not using it. You can throw an attack or even two between your heals easily...excused are only the Venomancers who are tanking with a Walker/Magmite/Bear/Cub.

Also, FCC runs give you perfect stones often so you shouldn't have problems with your genie's stamina either. I absolutely love amplify damage + extreme poision + heaven's flame (+ myriad's breaks). Venomancers are debuffers and they should have Extreme Poison in my opinion...
Non-Hercules Venomancer ought to have it as a subtitude to Amplify Damage that can't use while tanking.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

While I don't agree so much with that 'fail build' part, I do think that very often people see a herced veno as a repair cost saver, nothing else. I haven't done that many FCCs yet but I have not seen a single veno use amp there, ever. Herced or not.

Silest - Sanctuary wrote: »

Because you haven't played with me~

And they should be using amp+extreme poison and ironwood ~_~ that combo pretty much turns DD's into Gods.. Those bosses have all that hp, and you don't herc tank EVERY boss in FCC. So there's no excuse to not use amp =/.

And it's also cause he hasnt played with me yet b:chuckle

Me STAYS in foxform during bosses to amp, SD, and myriad.
Me also tries to time amp with HF.
I thinks the only boss i dont foxform is Adawolf b:surrender

Edit: @Desdi, I usually run with 3 genies, str based, dex based, and magic based.
Str genie's got tangling mire on it and cloud eruption (I use this the most)
Mag genie has basic protection and pulling skill on it, like AD, ToP, etc.
Dex genie(still working on it) Has extreme posion, ToP, badge of courage(that could be good for those stun mobs).

Segreta - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Assassins have many evasion techniques of their own: they don't need your help. Barbs can do aggro resets.

lmao you were talking about all the time that a non-herc its non-reliable and that there there and there the poor squads members can get agro and god knowns what tragedy may happen without the pet tanking,don't try to reflect that on me that was you b:bye

You're assuming in your whole post that what I was trying to say that a Veno with a GW is as good as Veno with an Herc which I don't remember to have said anywhere,thus making your whole tone easily marked as flaming.

This is you:
"Again,this is not a rant,just my little analysis of the matter,I found out that is way better to form a squad myself rather than explaining the random-clueless-dude-asking-for-herc-withouth-having-an-idea-of-what-he-is-asking that an Herc is over-rated for FCC."

That its supposed to mean that I said that a GW is as good as an Herc?,you're using too much of your imagination,there's nothing there.

Probably fail build. I have wiz also

And your Wizard for some miracle eats less mp than a Venomancer?,what he have lv.1 Skills?,he never get hitted?,do he even PvE anymore or its just your TW tool?
You're assuming that Venomancer = Herculus thus making in the mid-term the Venomancer the most expensive class,that's totally a fail logic,Venomancers doesen't have to get an herc to*Enjoy* the game,something that maybe you never thought.

A good skilled pet Out-damaged most low 90s DDs,and keep agro as well as an Herc(Actually my pet steal from same-level Hercs all the time),why should I worry to do EVEN more damage if Im already the biggest DD out there?,pretend from others to dela more DPS rather than QQ at me,at 100+ its another story your Herc won't even be able to keep agro.

DPS doesn't equate to aggro. Nice try fooling any noobs out there.

Yes my GW outdamaged most low 80-90 DDs that's excactly what I said,i never said that DPS equate to agro.

You're probably too used to be lv.100+ by too much time to remember the"Average",game lv.1-60 lv.60/80 those nubs days yes,a Pet usually outdamaged any DD below 90,unless its pretty good equipped(And no,not everyone like you have Gold stuff highly refined).

Do you want keep flaming so I can post more of your fail flaming attemps?

b:bye

LadyMaraJade - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

Also, many of us would ask ourselves: why the hell arnt they doing FF if they still don't have a Herc
Errrrrr really?? Why the hell not b:angry hercless venos can do just has well in Fcc and even tank some if not all the bosses in Fcc and can still amp purge if timed right dosnt mean we cant or shouldnt be aollowed to do fcc * ive even taken and helded arggo form a lvl 95 barb in there with a armoured bear*

Looks like a rant to me. I've run FF a lot, and thus ended up running with other venos a lot. I see what other people's perspective is on them. Most of them are too lazy to cast Amp more than once per boss if that even with someone else tanking.Their DPS is most often horrid partly due to the fail build advice being spread by the gang of trolls on this forum. A Herc veno tend to play more serious and even if they're lazy: at least they have a Herc! Otherwise, any other class would most likely make a better choice.

Yes the Herc is the best pet around In Pwi but because others dont have one for their own reasons doesnt mean by far they are fails its how you play and use your skills both herc & hercless venos alike *its just a herc veno can tank more bosses then a non herc veno*

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

manray, Desdi , my veno wants to be come just like u b:chuckleb:thanks

Ive been in a team with Desdi more then once b:thanks and WoW if you get a chance to talk too Desdi or even team up with her do it she is every helpfull and full of advice:P

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Maybe I need to meet Desdi too, lmao. Too many times I've squaded with fail venos, so tbh id rather just be the only one in squad. But Desdi's posts are always helpful. And while I do my best to pull my weight in squads, I'm not always good at coming up with advice on the spot.

Silest - Sanctuary

I've squaded with a number of experienced/good venos and most of their style and knowledge I've incorporated into my own.

Even if the Hercules is tanking they have no excuse for not using it. You can throw an attack or even two between your heals easily...

I have this thing where, if I miss a heal(while boss tanking), herc is gonna die. So while I'm spamming heal, I'm spamming extreme poison to compensate. On Holeen phase 2 though my comfort zone is a bit bigger, and I've been using both.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

It's absolutely hilarious that once again Tweakz manages to make a simple comparison/analysis thread into a flame the noob/fail build veno =\
Once again the entire thread changes from a well argumented and tested theory-sharing into a "get a herc or else you dont matter!" discussion when Tweakz runs his mouth.

The simple fact someone can not even voice their honest, well balanced and tested OPINION in a FORUM for crying out loud proves you take this game WAY too serious.
It also proves you have nothing better to do than needlessly spam your nasty comments and foul, ill-based half assed, **** opinion on nothing else than threads that boost your own self esteem as being a High lv. end game Veno with amazing gear and pet.
It proves that you have no other knowledge of antything other than watching others **** up you fail to realise the biggest **** up of all is you.
It proves you are unable to voice your opinion in a normal matter, conversate, discuss and debate other possabilities.

When i simply went out and TRIED to get a better understanding of my class and share that information and findings, others were more than helpfull in trying to guide me in the right direction. You on the other hand did exactly what you are doing now.
Slapping someone on the fingers, telling them their stuck on stoopid if they dont change the way YOU want them to and if they bounce off the idea with a simple "i dont see the point in that." you go on a rant and make it personal by calling them a failure in their class.

Segreta made a VERY good post in showing that it IS possible to go into FCC WITHOUT a herc. Making YOUR obsession about a herc'd veno lose it's credibality.
She never once said a herc was unnesesairy, she merely proved the option of FCC without a herc IS possible.
Get off your high horse and sniff the reality that it's YOU who is stuck on stoopid with a tunnel vision to one way only, The herc.
It is YOU that fails to see the concept of an MMORPG, A MULTI MASS online role playing Game, and turned it into a selfish, my way or the high way solo gaming world behind your computer where your stuck in your own mind of make pretend your better than the rest.