How to Fix the All Servers Economy
Rhyme - Harshlands
Posts: 1,004 Arc User
Remove Wedding Wines from the Boutique Agent so that you cant trade 10 tokens for one, then trade it for the Triumph Money, which can be NPC'd for 99,999 coins. Once these are removed, tokens will drop WAY below 10k. Things will be so much cheaper to buy with tokens that their will be no need for boutique gold for many items, thus causing prices to drop. Back would be such a risk at 400k gold, if you were to get tokens from a pack you would be losing almost 90% of your money.
Also, remove perfect hammers from the shop completely. Gold will be permanently fixed at 200k as long as perfect hammers and chest of coins coexist.
By remove 2, yes just 2, aspects of the game the servers economic problems will be fixed. But since GMs really don't care about our opinions enough to relay them to the Devs. This is just a pipe dream.
Feel free to comment or post a counter-argument
Also, remove perfect hammers from the shop completely. Gold will be permanently fixed at 200k as long as perfect hammers and chest of coins coexist.
By remove 2, yes just 2, aspects of the game the servers economic problems will be fixed. But since GMs really don't care about our opinions enough to relay them to the Devs. This is just a pipe dream.
Feel free to comment or post a counter-argument
Post edited by Rhyme - Harshlands on
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Comments
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Fail..................[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks0 -
*cough* perfect tokens of best luck *cough*
Tokens at 10k are fine.
10 perfect tokens every half an hour are not =pb:dirty0 -
Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »
Also, remove perfect hammers from the shop completely. Gold will be permanently fixed at 200k as long as perfect hammers and chest of coins coexist.
By remove 2, yes just 2, aspects of the game the servers economic problems will be fixed. But since GMs really don't care about our opinions enough to relay them to the Devs. This is just a pipe dream.
Feel free to comment or post a counter-argument
Erm.. where would people get their hammers for their lvl50 chest(the weapon they get from chest)??0 -
Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »Remove Wedding Wines from the Boutique Agent so that you cant trade 10 tokens for one, then trade it for the Triumph Money, which can be NPC'd for 99,999 coins. Once these are removed, tokens will drop WAY below 10k. Things will be so much cheaper to buy with tokens that their will be no need for boutique gold for many items, thus causing prices to drop. Back would be such a risk at 400k gold, if you were to get tokens from a pack you would be losing almost 90% of your money.
Also, remove perfect hammers from the shop completely. Gold will be permanently fixed at 200k as long as perfect hammers and chest of coins coexist.
By remove 2, yes just 2, aspects of the game the servers economic problems will be fixed. But since GMs really don't care about our opinions enough to relay them to the Devs. This is just a pipe dream.
Feel free to comment or post a counter-argument
Your logic amuses me.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To be or not to be.
Current Goals: none.0 -
Implying they actually care enough to take action...0
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Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »Remove Wedding Wines from the Boutique Agent so that you cant trade 10 tokens for one, then trade it for the Triumph Money, which can be NPC'd for 99,999 coins. Once these are removed, tokens will drop WAY below 10k. Things will be so much cheaper to buy with tokens that their will be no need for boutique gold for many items, thus causing prices to drop. Back would be such a risk at 400k gold, if you were to get tokens from a pack you would be losing almost 90% of your money.
Also, remove perfect hammers from the shop completely. Gold will be permanently fixed at 200k as long as perfect hammers and chest of coins coexist.
By remove 2, yes just 2, aspects of the game the servers economic problems will be fixed. But since GMs really don't care about our opinions enough to relay them to the Devs. This is just a pipe dream.
Feel free to comment or post a counter-argument
+1 but why fix the economy? No one actually plays anymore except maybe TW or to afk catshop or chat with guildiesb:surrender0 -
Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »*cough* perfect tokens of best luck *cough*
Tokens at 10k are fine.
10 perfect tokens every half an hour are not =p
See, you missed the point. If tokens were to drop below 10k each, half of the people who currently take risks with packs won't. Currently, Gold is about 400k. If someone were to buy 50 packs it would cost 13,200,000 coins, and if they got all tokens (750) it would be around a 5m loss because tokens are fixed at 10k. If wedding wines were removed, and tokens dropped to about 5-6k, they would lose 10m coins.
Now, in order for people to buy more packs, gold would have to drop to 200k to get the safe-guard people are used to.
Before people found out about the wedding wines, there was a 1 week span where gold was 280k and tokens were 6.5k. Then, when news spread of wedding wines gold jumped up to 400k and tokens were firmly at 10.5k.0 -
Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »Remove Wedding Wines from the Boutique Agent so that you cant trade 10 tokens for one, then trade it for the Triumph Money, which can be NPC'd for 99,999 coins. Once these are removed, tokens will drop WAY below 10k. Things will be so much cheaper to buy with tokens that their will be no need for boutique gold for many items, thus causing prices to drop. Back would be such a risk at 400k gold, if you were to get tokens from a pack you would be losing almost 90% of your money.
This is correct. This is why tokens are floating right at 10k with buy slightly under and sell slightly over. This is an artificial price that only people who buy under 10k really know about because many of them just NPC the tokens in this fashion.
Also removing the 10m big note from packs would be another help.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »But since GMs really don't care about our opinions enough to relay them to the Devs. This is just a pipe dream.
Feel free to comment or post a counter-argumentImplying they actually care enough to take action...
I am well aware of that fact, but what is life without hope?0 -
Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »I am well aware of that fact, but what is life without hope?
Implying that the game has life.
You know what goes here.0 -
how to fix the economy? kill perfect tokens, as was mentioned.
how to make at least some people at least a little happier, at least temporarily? drop perfect hammer prices to three gold. that makes them marginally more affordable for the lvl50 chest, without affecting gold prices in the short to medium term at all. (are there any servers with gold prices below 333k coin? i doubt it.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »This is correct. This is why tokens are floating right at 10k with buy slightly under and sell slightly over. This is an artificial price that only people who buy under 10k really know about because many of them just NPC the tokens in this fashion.
Also removing the 10m big note from packs would be another help.
See, that would be to much to ask, and MANY people would be upset if that was removed. Now, I'm basing this off of the sale price of packs.
On Sale
1 Gold = 400k
50 Packs = 13m
1 token = 10k
Player X opens 50 packs and gets 720 tokens and 2 best lucks
Player X sells the tokens for 7.2m and the best lucks for 10m making 4m profit
1 Gold = 400k
50 packs = 13m
1 token = 5k
Player X opens 50 packs and gets 720 tokens and 2 best lucks
Player X sells the tokens for 3.6m and the 2 best lucks 10m making 600k profit
Off Sale
1 Gold = 400k
50 Packs = 18m
1 token = 10k
Player X opens 50 packs and gets 720 tokens and 2 best lucks
Player X sells the tokens for 7.2m and the best lucks for 10m losing 800k
1 Gold = 400k
50 packs = 18m
1 token = 5k
Player X opens 50 packs and gets 720 tokens and 2 best lucks
Player X sells the tokens for 3.6m and the best lucks for 10m losing 5m
As you can see, off sale, best lucks are not the main problem. Tokens act as a safe-guard. Once token prices drop, packs become WAY to risky, thus causing gold prices to drop to reproduce the safe-guard.0 -
Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »As you can see, off sale, best lucks are not the main problem.
you posted four different scenarios, in exactly none of which tokens produced as much coin as best lucks. so where do you get the notion that best lucks are not the problem, if all of your own models show them to be the largest coin source? ISTM you mainly demonstrated (assuming we take your models at face value) that pack sales are a problem, by causing any of those scenarios to be a net coin source.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0 -
LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »you posted four different scenarios, in exactly none of which tokens produced as much coin as best lucks. so where do you get the notion that best lucks are not the problem, if all of your own models show them to be the largest coin source? ISTM you mainly demonstrated (assuming we take your models at face value) that pack sales are a problem, by causing any of those scenarios to be a net coin source.
What I'm trying to show, sale or no sale, that tokens act as a safe guard. No matter what, you can guarantee that you will get 7.5m from packs. If the safe-guard is decreased, gold will be forced to decrease to reproduce the safe-guard0 -
it seems we're working on different basic assumptions. mine is that gold prices are driven mainly by supply and demand; you seem to think they're driven mainly by speculation. short of actual experimentation, i don't think we can know which one of us is correct.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.0
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LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »it seems we're working on different basic assumptions. mine is that gold prices are driven mainly by supply and demand; you seem to think they're driven mainly by speculation. short of actual experimentation, i don't think we can know which one of us is correct.
There is actually proof of mine, I do not remember when, which may cause lack of validity. Gold prices were shockingly at 280k DURING a pack sale, and tokens were sitting at 6k. Then, almost instantly, someone found out that you can trade 10 tokens for a wedding wine, then pretty much NPC it for 100k. All tokens were bought out and immediately "NPC'd" gold prices shot up to 400k where they have firmly sat for the past 6 months.0 -
LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »you posted four different scenarios, in exactly none of which tokens produced as much coin as best lucks. so where do you get the notion that best lucks are not the problem, if all of your own models show them to be the largest coin source? ISTM you mainly demonstrated (assuming we take your models at face value) that pack sales are a problem, by causing any of those scenarios to be a net coin source.
Reread his first post. He describes how people are NPCing tokens, generating new coin from regular tokens.
I know more than a few players who have made plenty of coin buying tokens, NPCing them, buying more, NPCing them... it's also causing quite a bit of inflation this is generating new coin that previously did not exist... some people do this with thousands of tokens. It's also why tokens will never sell below 10k.
Rhyme actually has a valid point.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Reread his first post. He describes how people are NPCing tokens, generating new coin from regular tokens.
I know more than a few players who have made plenty of coin buying tokens, NPCing them, buying more, NPCing them... it's also causing quite a bit of inflation this is generating new coin that previously did not exist... some people do this with thousands of tokens. It's also why tokens will never sell below 10k.
Rhyme actually has a valid point.
Best lucks are still worse ijs.0 -
Best lucks are still worse ijs.
Best lucks are more visible. In my case I'd make more off NPCing tokens than I would getting best lucks. Last 50 packs I opened = all tokens.
NPCing tokens just creates a token sink and increases coin supply. Even with the token sink, tokens will never go lower than 10k.
Remove the sink, tokens will drop in price even further, so will gold prices. That would = win.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
why remove wedding wines? they serve a great purpose in making cheap bh wines. I don't even have to farm all of the same required materials to make BH wines of any sort... Go farm hell for a while, sell mats and herbs to cat shops and make ~200k, buy 20 tokens = 2 wedding wines = 2 BH wines of any sort.
= cheaper than buying wines from cat shops and far less than from the NPC. If wedding wines are removed, BH wine prices will shoot up, and likely other game items as well.
I don't think the economy is broken, I think people just don't know how to work it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »why remove wedding wines? they serve a great purpose in making cheap bh wines. I don't even have to farm all of the same required materials to make BH wines of any sort... Go farm hell for a while, sell mats and herbs to cat shops and make ~200k, buy 20 tokens = 2 wedding wines = 2 BH wines of any sort.
= cheaper than buying wines from cat shops and far less than from the NPC. If wedding wines are removed, BH wine prices will shoot up, and likely other game items as well.
I don't think the economy is broken, I think people just don't know how to work it.
But it does bring back the wine/mat business, which was a great money maker at first.
...and the 5/5/5/5 deal rofl.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Fixed a bug in my spreadsheet. Taking into account chances to get each item as a reward and their market values:Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Best lucks are more visible. In my case I'd make more off NPCing tokens than I would getting best lucks. Last 50 packs I opened = all tokens.
Lucky Corals: worth 327k
45.0% of value comes from luck tokens
11.0% from best luck tokens
4.3% lunar ornament
4.0% lunar weapon
3.1% championship scroll
Tiger Pack: worth 398k
36.6% of value comes from luck tokens
21.6% from best luck tokens
5.7% lunar wing trophy
3.5% lunar ornament
3.3% lunar weapon
Back when token prices were >10k, the market price was higher so people would cat shop them, meaning it wasn't new coin being created. But now that they've bottomed out at 10k or lower, the NPC trade generally makes more sense. So yeah, they could be a huge new source of coin.0 -
Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »But it does bring back the wine/mat business, which was a great money maker at first.
...and the 5/5/5/5 deal rofl.
but that still exists in a round about way. imo, like it or not - tokens are are what drives the majority of the economy nowadays. I think instead of complaining about it, people should adjust to it. There's always going to be the people who don't read these forums to see what can be done with what, and just don't bother to make a cost/benefit analysis - this allows you to still Sell X item, buy tokens, make w/e your niche is - and sell that item for profit. Wanna sell BH wines? Set up at the Head Hunter. Ive had good experience with dropping money on tokens and making herb yuanxiao and crab meat - set up at head hunter over night and sell herb for 700, crab for 1900 = profit.
Want to make more money? I started out a shop with 400k and after a couple weeks I had 10 million coins. Bought gold, sold D.orb 1 star for 75k turn around and repeat. When gold prices rose, so did my prices and eventually I was buying stacks of 18 gold each day and selling d.orb 1 stars at 80k each. It was priced nicely that if someone wanted to buy 10 only, they were paying less than it would cost to buy 2 gold + handling fee and be left with 20 silver unused - yet on my end it gained profit on the unit price of each d.orb. During the d.orb sale my 75k price would make profit even if gold was selling at 405k each (not very much, but still a small profit - and the constant supply of d.orbs made sure people knew that when they wanted em, I was there).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Retired..0 -
It's not that you can make normal wines out of the wedding wines, it's that you can also make 99,999 coins out of one of them. So the proposal is really to remove just the 99,999 coin option.Baalbak - Dreamweaver wrote: »why remove wedding wines? they serve a great purpose in making cheap bh wines.
There's enough people using the 99,999 coin option these days that it's almost certainly become a huge source of new coin, and thus inflation. If Packs were still in the Chinese version they'd almost certainly have removed this option by now, but our version doesn't have nearly the same level of inflation problems.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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You would rather have cheap BH Wines than 200k gold prices?
I doubt that is the case.0 -
gold is fine at 400k. so stop talking.AP classes are a real butt pounding...0
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Props for a useful thread out of all the chaos. The diminishing of threads like this, ones that are worth reading, was the reason I stopped vising the General Discussion. Franky, I'm shocked that it's from Rhyme...
I had no idea that you can trade wedding wine for Triumph Money. I guess I didn't explore the options with tokens far enough. This does explain the 10k price of tokens. Wow, I gained a lot of useful information and insights from this thread. I'm... almost speechless...0 -
Lorminstra - Heavens Tear wrote: »Erm.. where would people get their hammers for their lvl50 chest(the weapon they get from chest)??
b:bye who use those **** weps
anyways, if remove the hammer, sure gold price will drop to ~200k, but then again it'd be easier for people to get more packs and more tokens, not to mention they'll able to get lots more stuffs from boutique since money isnt like 2 years ago, now that they can easily obtain. EX: packs, hh, nirv, ...
conclusion: more +12, nirv gears(cuz packs are now half priced of original)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^me
already quit pwi, and yet my gears are still superior than 95% of you people.0 -
Wow what an elaborate argument. I mean, any advice from a cash shopping level 82 is 100% true. You give valid points in your argument and back it up with examples.ArchSaber - Sanctuary wrote: »gold is fine at 400k. so stop talking.b:bye who use those **** weps
Seriously, the weapons are really really really bad.0 -
The 2+ step trade items from tokens that are profitable are generally not as well known until they become discussed here. e.g. tokens -> wedding wines -> BH/FB wines. Or tokens -> chips -> dice tickets.Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »I had no idea that you can trade wedding wine for Triumph Money. I guess I didn't explore the options with tokens far enough.0
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