Endgame gear impossible to farm without CS?

2

Comments

  • Rawrgh - Raging Tide
    Rawrgh - Raging Tide Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    "I cant make money"

    "whose up for FC?"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    But isn't that point of it being end game? & hard to attain without endless farming/cs/merchanting?


    I don't understand when ppl complain the game is CS only, it's so hard to get $ & get good gears <.< then I see them hyping in Frost all the time & never farming stuff. Or loggin on once in a while, joining a BH squad & QQing about how it's hard to get moneyz.

    Once again, I WAS NOT COMPLAINING. There's a big difference in between describing the current state of things and whining about it. Yeah, it would be nice if acquiring end game gear depended more on running challenging instances and defeating bosses than on merely charging zhen or playing the market, but that's just an opinion.

    Advancement should also be based on you capabilities as a player and not merely as a bean counter, which would mean you could stand a chance against the no lifers and the heavy spenders. Once again, OPINION. Wether you think it right or wrong that someone should be rewarded for what is essentially pathologic behaviour is a different matter entirely, but if you are going to raise the "how things should be" argument you should certainly be able to do much better logging 1-2 hours a day.

    Because if you're logging to the game for longer than a couple of hours on a daily basis then it really is time for you to step away from your computer...
  • VlLKASS - Sanctuary
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary Posts: 1,396 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Once again, I WAS NOT COMPLAINING. There's a big difference in between describing the current state of things and whining about it. Yeah, it would be nice if acquiring end game gear depended more on running challenging instances and defeating bosses than on merely charging zhen or playing the market, but that's just an opinion.

    Advancement should also be based on you capabilities as a player and not merely as a bean counter, which would mean you could stand a chance against the no lifers and the heavy spenders. Once again, OPINION. Wether you think it right or wrong that someone should be rewarded for what is essentially pathologic behaviour is a different matter entirely, but if you are going to raise the "how things should be" argument you should certainly be able to do much better logging 1-2 hours a day.

    Because if you're logging to the game for longer than a couple of hours on a daily basis then it really is time for you to step away from your computer...

    The "complain" part wasn't directed at you, but at several other comments, as well as, threads that pop up quite often.

    Advancement should also be based on you capabilities as a player and not merely as a bean counter, which would mean you could stand a chance against the no lifers and the heavy spenders.
    This game isn't really rocket science... However if you're going that way: If you're logging in only once in a while into the game what kind of capabilities & especially knowledge about game dungeons, bosses, skills, other classes are you going to have? Compare those that have been playing this game for a few years to ppl that hyped up to high lvl in a month or two. Do you mean their capabilities would be the same? (Maybe in a VER VERY rare case they would). Furthermore, if End-game good gear would be so easily attainable even to those ppl, what are the heavy players going to do in the meantime?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver
    HarmOwnie - Dreamweaver Posts: 574 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yeah, it would be nice if acquiring end game gear depended more on running challenging instances and defeating bosses than on merely charging zhen or playing the market, but that's just an opinion.

    that was exactly the point. I know that there are more efficient ways to raise funds than to do runs by yourself but as a player i would like to PLAY with my factionmates and friends. So all the trouble of finding appropriate squads and putting a lot of effort into finishing challenging bosses ( i wont talk here about repair bills and stuff like that) should pay off somehow in the end. Otherwise every players who acutally does runs would be stupid to do so but in my opinion sitting for hours with a catshop doesnt mean much fun to me and i play the game to have fun.

    Another big issue are the solo capabilities of the different characters. In my opinion it is quite unfair that some classes can aquire coins much easier than others. But shouldnt there be some kind of balance? Dont get me wrong i have nothing against venos but after the initial investment of 60kk they turn into crazy farming machines with their hercs. Other classes wont be able to do the same even if the invested the same amount of money in their stuff.

    But worst of all is the fact that pwi seems to remove certain items from the instances like the higher lvl darkness stamps just to make it even harder for players to obtain rank 8 by playing. I mean we dont talk here about casual gaming because 100k times a solo mission = 4kk mobs to kill for rank 8 is a too much if you ask me. If higher bhs also would give the stamps it would be a lot easier to farm rank8 so a player should be able to get rank 8 within 2 years playing for sure
  • Malilizi - Harshlands
    Malilizi - Harshlands Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Actually you can easily farm rank 8 if you have a good squad of friends. However it would require running a butt load of 89 trophy mode ;). Also you don't have to do one man armies alone. You can be squaded with as many people as you'd like.

    Warsong also gives very good rep with Warsong Medals being the best and giving you 625 rep each.

    Level 90+ Wanteds give you 4 rep per Wanted and then you usually get a dog tag too.

    I've almost farmed rank 6 without even trying just from doing all these things. Of course 7k of the rep is just sitting in an alt bank because I have no use for it, but sometimes I like to look at it. b:chuckle

    All of the rank 6 badges can be obtained in game! The ones you think you can only gain through cash shopping come from City of Abominations.

    All of the other event gear items are farmable as well. I farmed my cube neck and we started farming someone's Warsong belt before the prices dropped. Trophy mode for 99 has been out of months, though it's a bit of a pain in the butt, but once you have your other end game gear it would be fairly easy to farm the capes too. The hats and boots have always been farmable but I wouldn't suggest doing that unless you're crazy and enjoy torturing yourself. b:shocked

    Of course all of these things take TIME, but that's kind of what MMOs are about and F2P games are even more about this. If you don't want to spend the time then you spend the money!
  • Malilizi - Harshlands
    Malilizi - Harshlands Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Oh and the FC weapons can be obtained through Pasts of the Frostcovered Cities. You need 999 for either the Aqua Dash or the Broadland and people sell them fairly cheap or even give them away if you ask nicely.
  • Maragon - Dreamweaver
    Maragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Malilizi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Oh and the FC weapons can be obtained through Pasts of the Frostcovered Cities. You need 999 for either the Aqua Dash or the Broadland and people sell them fairly cheap or even give them away if you ask nicely.

    this is true....but my bm would like to farm gorenox vanity. where is that available from game content. some people have told me it is but cant seem to come up with from where. And my barb would like to farm a pan gus giant axe. I cant find that from game content either just frost sign force
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    this is true....but my bm would like to farm gorenox vanity. where is that available from game content. some people have told me it is but cant seem to come up with from where. And my barb would like to farm a pan gus giant axe. I cant find that from game content either just frost sign force

    you can only get aquadash and broad land with pasts

    to the OP

    as a ftp player i make about 2 mill a day w/o merchanting

    365 days in a year, pwi is on its 2nd anniversery

    so a ftp on the old servers who was here from the start and does not merchant could have easily made about 1.46 billion coins in profit off grinding and herb/mat farming

    this is not counting tt/lunar/coa/old DT/TW pay
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This game isn't really rocket science... However if you're going that way: If you're logging in only once in a while into the game what kind of capabilities & especially knowledge about game dungeons, bosses, skills, other classes are you going to have? Compare those that have been playing this game for a few years to ppl that hyped up to high lvl in a month or two. Do you mean their capabilities would be the same? (Maybe in a VER VERY rare case they would). Furthermore, if End-game good gear would be so easily attainable even to those ppl, what are the heavy players going to do in the meantime?

    That is a design flaw in the game and is largely due to lack of content. Yeah, there should be content that can be accessed only by the no lifers and endgame goals aimed at them, but the majority of content should be aimed at your average gamer, which really isn't that sick so as to spend the larger portion of his waking life playing the game.

    The problem is people like you don't realize the majority of content made for the no lifers in most MMOs is not the glamorous stuff, but rather activities such as crafting or recasting gear for bonuses, or earning rather small gains in stats or skills after large time investments. Content such as raids is generally accessible to all, even if there are a couple of modes or levels available only to the elites.

    Playing like a degenerate entitles you to nothing, and should actually be discouraged by developers. If really you were going to invest the larger part of your life on an MMO you should be able to be done after relatively few months and thenmove on. The problem is most of the whining and feedback GMs get is from people who continue to log for more than 2 hours a day even though they've been 1xx for months... And people think that's normal and the standard they should aspire to when really is nothing but a couple of hundred people on each server. Yea, that's the people who get to participate in events and get some reward and who are heavy CSers and merchants, a couple of hundred on each server out of a game that even if you're skeptic about the 100k players figure does number users in the tens of thousands. And while the overwhelming majority of us eventually quit because the game stops being fun and does nothing but pressure into giving up something precious to you (time, money, etc.) and changes which benefitted mid to high levels would greatly improve everyone's experience and actually make for better bussiness, PW continues to cater to the people who demand more endgame content being put on the boutique since the game has degenerated into nothing more than acumulation of ig wealth.

    It's the people playing upwards of 2 hours a day that are killing the game, but you think they should be rewarded...
  • Maragon - Dreamweaver
    Maragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And while the overwhelming majority of us eventually quit because the game stops being fun and does nothing but pressure into giving up something precious to you (time, money, etc.) and changes which benefitted mid to high levels would greatly improve everyone's experience and actually make for better bussiness, PW continues to cater to the people who demand more endgame content being put on the boutique since the game has degenerated into nothing more than acumulation of ig wealth.

    and there it is.

    this thread has talked through the cash shop, farming and merchanting but PW itself has forgotten the most fundamental concept in merchanting (the only real way a free player can keep up anymore which was said.) QUANTITY. all over these forums merchanting tips have been given and they all say buy low, sell high and deal in quantity of items. small transactions over tons of items instead of trying to sell a few items very high. PW is trying to cater to the few insane players making a few giant transactions instead of filling up servers with a ton of players that would spend a few dollars here and there for a mount, aero, fashion and the like.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's the people playing upwards of 2 hours a day that are killing the game, but you think they should be rewarded...

    ...

    words cannot describe how wrong that statement was
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Malilizi - Harshlands
    Malilizi - Harshlands Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    this is true....but my bm would like to farm gorenox vanity. where is that available from game content. some people have told me it is but cant seem to come up with from where. And my barb would like to farm a pan gus giant axe. I cant find that from game content either just frost sign force

    Well A) FC weapons are actually not very good. Besides for the Pan Gus they are fairly mediocre and are easily replaced by Lunar weapons, which you can still farm.

    B) It would have been very very difficult for you to farm those weapons anyway. Especially if you were trying to farm them on level (85) so that you could use them.

    Old FC consisted of having to first open squad mode by running solo mode about six times, which took a large amount of time, and then running FC, which was incredibly hard. Most of the mobs AoE'd and knocked down BB and the bosses all had special abilities that just demolished tanks. It could be done but you would have needed people with very good gear to help you with it.

    Farming the 15-20mil it takes to get a FC sign is far easier, less time consuming, and cheaper in the long run if you factor in charms, dolls, and pots.

    All of the FC weapons and gear have a chance to drop from the bosses in FC. I believe that gold weapons can only drop from the end boss since I haven't see them drop anywhere else.
  • Rocabye - Lost City
    Rocabye - Lost City Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That is a design flaw in the game and is largely due to lack of content. Yeah, there should be content that can be accessed only by the no lifers and endgame goals aimed at them, but the majority of content should be aimed at your average gamer, which really isn't that sick so as to spend the larger portion of his waking life playing the game.

    The problem is people like you don't realize the majority of content made for the no lifers in most MMOs is not the glamorous stuff, but rather activities such as crafting or recasting gear for bonuses, or earning rather small gains in stats or skills after large time investments. Content such as raids is generally accessible to all, even if there are a couple of modes or levels available only to the elites.

    Playing like a degenerate entitles you to nothing, and should actually be discouraged by developers. If really you were going to invest the larger part of your life on an MMO you should be able to be done after relatively few months and thenmove on. The problem is most of the whining and feedback GMs get is from people who continue to log for more than 2 hours a day even though they've been 1xx for months... And people think that's normal and the standard they should aspire to when really is nothing but a couple of hundred people on each server. Yea, that's the people who get to participate in events and get some reward and who are heavy CSers and merchants, a couple of hundred on each server out of a game that even if you're skeptic about the 100k players figure does number users in the tens of thousands. And while the overwhelming majority of us eventually quit because the game stops being fun and does nothing but pressure into giving up something precious to you (time, money, etc.) and changes which benefitted mid to high levels would greatly improve everyone's experience and actually make for better bussiness, PW continues to cater to the people who demand more endgame content being put on the boutique since the game has degenerated into nothing more than acumulation of ig wealth.

    It's the people playing upwards of 2 hours a day that are killing the game, but you think they should be rewarded...

    You know I think your figures are a bit off. Two hours a day for most MMO's of this magnitude is a joke. Two hours a day on anything is pretty casual honestly, no matter what you're doing. And anyone that plays this game only 2 hours a day gets nowhere, and I know this because I played that much when i was active for about 5 days (and got nowhere..im lvl 19 gg). I don't play this game anymore because constant questing bored the hell out of me but I do know a bit about it. And what I do know is that 2 hours a day is hardly the gamebreaking player. Lets be real here:

    1) The avg person is awake for about 16 hours a day.

    2) Younger kids, because they need less sleep, are generally awake 18+ hours a day

    3) 2 hours out of a 16 hour day is not much at all...its practically nothing. You still have 14 hours to play with friends, hang with family, exercise, etc etc. Even with half of those 16 hours taken by school/work...that still leaves 6 hours in the day to study/play with friends/do rl stuff.

    My point is that 2 hours a day for any activity is pretty moderate. You're acting like 2 hours daily is hardcore and it really isn't. The majority of Americans watch about that much TV on a daily basis...and if i remember correctly the figure was actually higher than 2 hours.

    I agree with everything you say except for that. Being someone who has played 2 hours a day for a limited amount of time (a week max) I can tell you that I didn't get anywhere fast at all. Also, you said this in another post, but I'm gonna tell you right now that 3-4 hours daily is not no-lifing. Its definitely playing too much, but I wouldn't call it no-lifing. No-lifing is more like 6-8+ a day.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Absolutely, the game is 100% possible to get end-game gear without CS. The only catch is a player needs to be decent and has to have patience, the latter of which people (including myself) don't have very much of. So your choice is, in this case of having little to no patience and wanting things now / to get things sooner, either a mix of CS and farming, or fully CS your **** and just play that way. There's so many reasons one does any of the above it's rather silly to judge a person based on how much they CS, but without a doubt endgame gear is possible without cash shopping.

    Also, just as positively, those who have the least amount of patience, whether it be with farming stuff for free (either from getting bored of constant dungeon runs / merchanting / sucking at the game) or wanting their **** and levels now, tend to get bored the fastest, which is not a game design flaw (as this scenario is with nearly all MMORPGs) but a character trait (I personally call it a flaw) in a person.
  • Maragon - Dreamweaver
    Maragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Malilizi - Harshlands wrote: »
    Well A) FC weapons are actually not very good. Besides for the Pan Gus they are fairly mediocre and are easily replaced by Lunar weapons, which you can still farm.

    B) It would have been very very difficult for you to farm those weapons anyway. Especially if you were trying to farm them on level (85) so that you could use them.

    Old FC consisted of having to first open squad mode by running solo mode about six times, which took a large amount of time, and then running FC, which was incredibly hard. Most of the mobs AoE'd and knocked down BB and the bosses all had special abilities that just demolished tanks. It could be done but you would have needed people with very good gear to help you with it.

    Farming the 15-20mil it takes to get a FC sign is far easier, less time consuming, and cheaper in the long run if you factor in charms, dolls, and pots.

    All of the FC weapons and gear have a chance to drop from the bosses in FC. I believe that gold weapons can only drop from the end boss since I haven't see them drop anywhere else.

    ☆Gatherstorm
    ☆Silverrain
    ☆Everfragrance
    ☆Ghost Cry Thorn
    ☆Ghost Cry Soulsphere

    so far as I know these are the only golds that drop from the last boss all the greens drop.

    besides that is not the point...the point is the rest of them ARE ONLY AVAILABLE FROM FROST SIGNS. yes it may be easier to farm coin then it had been to run frost. but again thats not the point. The point is they are removing content. options are either farm for coin, merchant or just swipe the card.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Wait a sec, why are people equating elite end game equipment (pre-nirvana) gear as normal? That was for people who put in the time to farm for it (and even before packs, merchanting let people acquire the mats from people who did farm it), not for general run of the mill people. So easy solution, Lunar/FCC is end game content and the whole argument goes away. Casual can still get the average gear of before, it's kind of why crafting was allowed. Especially with OHT gear, just craft that until you get 3* or gold and you have casual play gear. And OHT crafting is easily affordable for people playing 1-2 hours a day.

    The problem becomes when people want the same high end gear as the "no-lifers" without putting effort into earning it as it is. Just stop wanting it, and settle with average rewards for average effort. Common sense here.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

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  • Maragon - Dreamweaver
    Maragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Wait a sec, why are people equating elite end game equipment (pre-nirvana) gear as normal? That was for people who put in the time to farm for it (and even before packs, merchanting let people acquire the mats from people who did farm it), not for general run of the mill people. So easy solution, Lunar/FCC is end game content and the whole argument goes away. Casual can still get the average gear of before, it's kind of why crafting was allowed. Especially with OHT gear, just craft that until you get 3* or gold and you have casual play gear. And OHT crafting is easily affordable for people playing 1-2 hours a day.

    The problem becomes when people want the same high end gear as the "no-lifers" without putting effort into earning it as it is. Just stop wanting it, and settle with average rewards for average effort. Common sense here.

    Noone complaining (well at east very few) are looking for a handout here. they want to be able to do runs (i.e. ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME not just grind, farm lower instances or merchant) gather mats over time and eventaully reach the same point after the same amount of effort is put in. if a hard core player puts in 8 hrs a day for 6 months or a year and gets all top end game gear (I'm just picking numbers for example) then a semi casual player should expect to be able to do the same over abt 3 years. I personally dont want to dart to 100. I'd rather take my time, enjoy the game, FARM MY GEAR, and eventually have an end game gear build.

    NOONE IS WANTING A HANDOUT. I dont know why people keep spewing this. The people who are getting the handout is the people that already have this end gear as they are more and more becoming the only ones that can feasible get mats from these bosses because either the bosses difficulty has been set to an almost broken level or the drop rate is so so low that farming is just unfeasible unless you can do speed runs to kill it enough times to get the same drop rate as the people that have the gear had when they were farming it.(from what I have read from these higher levels on the forums)

    again I am not talking about a handout I am talking about an equal shot given the same amount of effort. where some ppls effort is crammed into a short amount of time and others is spread out
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Noone complaining (well at east very few) are looking for a handout here. they want to be able to do runs (i.e. ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME not just grind, farm lower instances or merchant) gather mats over time and eventaully reach the same point after the same amount of effort is put in. if a hard core player puts in 8 hrs a day for 6 months or a year and gets all top end game gear (I'm just picking numbers for example) then a semi casual player should expect to be able to do the same over abt 3 years. I personally dont want to dart to 100. I'd rather take my time, enjoy the game, FARM MY GEAR, and eventually have an end game gear build.

    NOONE IS WANTING A HANDOUT. I dont know why people keep spewing this. The people who are getting the handout is the people that already have this end gear as they are more and more becoming the only ones that can feasible get mats from these bosses because either the bosses difficulty has been set to an almost broken level or the drop rate is so so low that farming is just unfeasible unless you can do speed runs to kill it enough times to get the same drop rate as the people that have the gear had when they were farming it.(from what I have read from these higher levels on the forums)

    again I am not talking about a handout I am talking about an equal shot given the same amount of effort. where some ppls effort is crammed into a short amount of time and others is spread out

    so you want a handout because other people have better gear

    guess what

    the person with a +12 weapon adn endgame armor will alwayys be > than a dumbass with +3 armor and a +2 tt 90 green weapon

    because asking to be put on par with the top geared players for 0 effort on your part isnt a handout at all

    *facedesk*
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's the people playing upwards of 2 hours a day that are killing the game, but you think they should be rewarded...

    Umm... Just look at all the requirements to farming gear. Past Helm, Past Boots, Nirvana gear, especially weapons... Warsoul.

    This game was designed for the hardcore player, not the casual one. Just because most stuff is available through packs doesn't negate it, it just gives people who can't spend that much time in-game an alternative.

    I'm pretty sure most of the people who have played this game and remember how it used to be before packs came out would agree that the catering to the casual gamer is actually what ruined this game the most.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • SmellsFishy - Dreamweaver
    SmellsFishy - Dreamweaver Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Noone complaining (well at east very few) are looking for a handout here. they want to be able to do runs (i.e. ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME not just grind, farm lower instances or merchant) gather mats over time and eventaully reach the same point after the same amount of effort is put in. if a hard core player puts in 8 hrs a day for 6 months or a year and gets all top end game gear (I'm just picking numbers for example) then a semi casual player should expect to be able to do the same over abt 3 years. I personally dont want to dart to 100. I'd rather take my time, enjoy the game, FARM MY GEAR, and eventually have an end game gear build.

    NOONE IS WANTING A HANDOUT. I dont know why people keep spewing this. The people who are getting the handout is the people that already have this end gear as they are more and more becoming the only ones that can feasible get mats from these bosses because either the bosses difficulty has been set to an almost broken level or the drop rate is so so low that farming is just unfeasible unless you can do speed runs to kill it enough times to get the same drop rate as the people that have the gear had when they were farming it.(from what I have read from these higher levels on the forums)

    again I am not talking about a handout I am talking about an equal shot given the same amount of effort. where some ppls effort is crammed into a short amount of time and others is spread out
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    so you want a handout because other people have better gear

    guess what

    the person with a +12 weapon adn endgame armor will alwayys be > than a dumbass with +3 armor and a +2 tt 90 green weapon

    because asking to be put on par with the top geared players for 0 effort on your part isnt a handout at all

    *facedesk*

    Failed.....b:chuckle

    Maragon wants to farm his own gears as part of his enjoyment of the game but guess what, tough luck because PWI doesn't make money from it. HOWEVER, farming lower instances and selling to cash shoppers, who charges zen ($$$ into PWI's pocket).
  • Maragon - Dreamweaver
    Maragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    SmellsFishy - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Failed.....b:chuckle

    Maragon wants to farm his own gears as part of his enjoyment of the game but guess what, tough luck because PWI doesn't make money from it. HOWEVER, farming lower instances and selling to cash shoppers, who charges zen ($$$ into PWI's pocket).

    thanks for pointing out the fail troll.

    And this is exactly my point. (warning i'm gonna comment on packs)

    I would probably buy gold from the AH and use for nicer mounts, aero, fashion, etc. EXCEPT the very things PWI put into the cash shop to increase revenue and allow people to just buy their gear have driven the prices of gold up too far for me to afford. since I dont NEED fashion, better aero, mounts and the like I dont buy that gold. therefore buhbai money to pwi. is it really that much from me compared to this guy i saw yesterday with +12 nrivana daggers? not even close. but as I commented before pwi has forgotten a basic principle of merchanting: many small transactions > then a few giant ones.

    and yea thanks again for pointing out people that flame without reading...its always funny
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Noone complaining (well at east very few) are looking for a handout here. they want to be able to do runs (i.e. ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME not just grind, farm lower instances or merchant) gather mats over time and eventaully reach the same point after the same amount of effort is put in. if a hard core player puts in 8 hrs a day for 6 months or a year and gets all top end game gear (I'm just picking numbers for example) then a semi casual player should expect to be able to do the same over abt 3 years. I personally dont want to dart to 100. I'd rather take my time, enjoy the game, FARM MY GEAR, and eventually have an end game gear build.

    NOONE IS WANTING A HANDOUT. I dont know why people keep spewing this. The people who are getting the handout is the people that already have this end gear as they are more and more becoming the only ones that can feasible get mats from these bosses because either the bosses difficulty has been set to an almost broken level or the drop rate is so so low that farming is just unfeasible unless you can do speed runs to kill it enough times to get the same drop rate as the people that have the gear had when they were farming it.(from what I have read from these higher levels on the forums)

    again I am not talking about a handout I am talking about an equal shot given the same amount of effort. where some ppls effort is crammed into a short amount of time and others is spread out

    Everyone is not quite unanimous on that, as some are equating end game gear to being average. And some do not want to put in the same amount of time, even over longer period, in this thread. Those are the ones my post was aimed at, as it cuts off one bad arguement from the thread.

    Thing is, a casual player would not feasibly be able to farm their gear even before the change according to the time most groups seemed to take. 1-2 hours a day would not allow for running the instances anyways, how would they farm them? It becomes much more time consuming and difficult compared to the earlier ones. They would have to cease being casual players to dedicate the timeto do the instance anyways, which would ruin the whole point. Wouldn't it?

    Mostly will be a waiting game for post-patch farming to get a clear picture. The no-skilled CSers immediately kept failing and complaining, while some end game gears with skill quickly figured one way to beat it. As the strategy is shared amongest their faction/friends, it gets improved and refined to allow lower gear to accomplish. The thing is, with the prices skyrocketing, no one will want to lose their cash cow. So it will take a while before someone disgruntled shares the strategies to common forums, so people can imitate it. It's gonna take awhile to get a final idea of what level of gear is required to finish it, and see how off it is. Which might be what the devs are waiting for.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • Maragon - Dreamweaver
    Maragon - Dreamweaver Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Thing is, a casual player would not feasibly be able to farm their gear even before the change according to the time most groups seemed to take. 1-2 hours a day would not allow for running the instances anyways, how would they farm them? It becomes much more time consuming and difficult compared to the earlier ones. They would have to cease being casual players to dedicate the timeto do the instance anyways, which would ruin the whole point. Wouldn't it?

    how long did a run take before the patch? I had always heard 3-1 was relatively easy. and even 3-3 was doable in a resonable amount of time.

    besides 1-2 hrs a day would be average. some days more some less. if they want to run the instance 1-2x a week then they could take the time. thats what a casual player does. make time i he wants to do something.

    and as far as end game gear being average. In a perfect game no it would not be. However with the cash shop being capable of making people incredibly over powered end game gear has in fact become the norm. the average has been skewed. now the people with that end game gear are overly farming the instances (which pwi evidentally doesnt like) and I have seen even complaining that things are far too easy now. so in an effort to push the average back the other direction they have made the instances harder. so now rather than most people having average gear. there is a group of people with elite end game gear. and another group of people with pretty normal gear who cant work toward the gear even if they wanted to because u need it to get it.

    18 months ago the gear I have now would have been considered pretty good for my lvl. now? its very average.

    I know you are going to twist what I said telling me I want everything given to me and how i'm a moron and thats ok.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ValenaHaiko - Heavens Tear
    ValenaHaiko - Heavens Tear Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There are many known cases of people playing without spending anything that have managed top tier endgame gear. However for the vast majority this remains out of reach. MMOs are meant to be time intensive yet the current emphasis on cash shopping has broken the game to a large extent. This is an issue of proportion.

    Someone playing around 2 hrs a day is too much of a casual (which is ridiculous) to hope for truly endgame gear without either a) becoming a succesful merchant or b) making a sizable financial investment.

    a) The cat shop system favors those able or willing to devote their comp 8-12 hours a day (at least) to merchanting. Furthermore, only a relatively small proportion of merchants will accomplish sufficient profit from their activity to pay for endgame gear. Not everyone can become succesful merchanting, there simply are not enough resources in game (either farmed or cash shopped) to allow for this, and competition is heavy.

    b) Charging $15 US a month (the more common p2p rate) is simply not enough to allow you to buy your way through the game. The best you can hope for is that such an amount will complement profitable, if not succesful, merchanting. At least twice that ($360 US a year) would be required for you to keep up with the joneses. And then only if you have managed to make it into the elite of top factions and/or playing groups.

    Now, do bear in mind that when i speak of 2 hours a day i don't simply mean effective gameplay (running instances, farming, grinding) but time you must devote to learning many of the game's systems, reading guides, looking through databases and even fun activities from which you're unlike to obtain profit (pvping, chatting). Unless you're as efficient as a robot and multitask on all such activities in such a way that you're turning a significant hourly profit every single time you log in, 1-2 hours a day is nowhere near enough time. People who like to brag about how one year or two may be sufficient to accomplish most endgame goals usually neglect to tell you how much time they have spent logged on. 1-2 hours a day, 3-4 on weekends, is not considered active by many guilds. Logging on 3-4 hours a day or more (and i do mean this with all due respect) does effectively make you a no lifer.

    So i will rephrase this; Endgame gear is impossible to farm without CS unless you're an extremely time efficient and succesful merchant, or you devote an unhealthy amount of your time to the game. The best you can hope for while still managing to lead a balanced healthy life or without extravagant spending will be medium refines on a lunar weapon...

    ^^ well said. All those bragging about it, mostly started very early in the game, when money was really easy to be made, less competitions, and gold price was very low.

    Besides, I totally agree about the amount of time involved, and the computer resources needed. Those time can be devoted to a much more rewarding experience somewhere else in real life.
  • Telarith - Sanctuary
    Telarith - Sanctuary Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    how long did a run take before the patch? I had always heard 3-1 was relatively easy. and even 3-3 was doable in a resonable amount of time.

    besides 1-2 hrs a day would be average. some days more some less. if they want to run the instance 1-2x a week then they could take the time. thats what a casual player does. make time i he wants to do something.

    and as far as end game gear being average. In a perfect game no it would not be. However with the cash shop being capable of making people incredibly over powered end game gear has in fact become the norm. the average has been skewed. now the people with that end game gear are overly farming the instances (which pwi evidentally doesnt like) and I have seen even complaining that things are far too easy now. so in an effort to push the average back the other direction they have made the instances harder. so now rather than most people having average gear. there is a group of people with elite end game gear. and another group of people with pretty normal gear who cant work toward the gear even if they wanted to because u need it to get it.

    18 months ago the gear I have now would have been considered pretty good for my lvl. now? its very average.

    I know you are going to twist what I said telling me I want everything given to me and how i'm a moron and thats ok.

    Lunar was a 4+ hour run, 3-2/3-3 with average gear I think was 2-3 hours or so if doing all the bosses and not using an alt to keep the instance open. But that is just to do the run; it does not count forming the party, any AFKs, party wipes, and dailies being done as well. That pushed it out of the reach of most casual players to be able to do. And many who do those instances have static group of friends that they go to those with, which hedges out people joining in who may or may not be on and have the time to do it.

    The main things with your post, is it seems to focus on the patch that upped the difficulty of 3-X TT mode. That is a specific concern, and doesn't really fit within the thread title as it is more general. The patch would be a different concern, and I'm not arguing that it isn't messed up (haven't done that one as I like 2-3 anyways). As long as there are options for end game gear, one avenue being shut down does not mean only CS is available as long as other avenues are there. And it is possible to farm other mats to sell to get the needed ones from AH. Not a perfect fix, but does mean CS is not the only route to getting the gear.

    Also I think most of the posts against your point is due to MANray. If you read their post, it becomes quite obvious why other people are talking about handouts and such in their replies. Not sure why I was mentioned as being one, as I can't recall a post saying such anywhere in this thread. You may not want to be lumped in with MANray when people make their replies, but you just did that to me. So you should at least understand how people made such replies to you. That didn't even require twisting to notice.
    Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura

    Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx

    :NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.
  • SmellsFishy - Dreamweaver
    SmellsFishy - Dreamweaver Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Lunar was a 4+ hour run, 3-2/3-3 with average gear I think was 2-3 hours or so if doing all the bosses and not using an alt to keep the instance open. But that is just to do the run; it does not count forming the party, any AFKs, party wipes, and dailies being done as well. That pushed it out of the reach of most casual players to be able to do. And many who do those instances have static group of friends that they go to those with, which hedges out people joining in who may or may not be on and have the time to do it.

    The main things with your post, is it seems to focus on the patch that upped the difficulty of 3-X TT mode. That is a specific concern, and doesn't really fit within the thread title as it is more general. The patch would be a different concern, and I'm not arguing that it isn't messed up (haven't done that one as I like 2-3 anyways). As long as there are options for end game gear, one avenue being shut down does not mean only CS is available as long as other avenues are there. And it is possible to farm other mats to sell to get the needed ones from AH. Not a perfect fix, but does mean CS is not the only route to getting the gear.

    Bravo...bravo!
    Well said..well said! The bold text summarizes it all.
  • Foxgrit - Lost City
    Foxgrit - Lost City Posts: 421 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Good thing the game is dead. If they opened a new server everyone would be screwed trying to farm their gear without CS. Seeing as the only people who can complete some of these instances after their changes are those who already had farmed their gear before the change. Honestly I have to say its rather unfair to the low levels trying to farm gear since now they have to buy it from a 10x since it was changed to become impossible for people to farm at the level it is needed who do not already have gear 2 tiers above what they are farming for.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Rocabye - Lost City wrote: »
    You know I think your figures are a bit off. Two hours a day for most MMO's of this magnitude is a joke. Two hours a day on anything is pretty casual honestly, no matter what you're doing. And anyone that plays this game only 2 hours a day gets nowhere, and I know this because I played that much when i was active for about 5 days (and got nowhere..im lvl 19 gg). I don't play this game anymore because constant questing bored the hell out of me but I do know a bit about it. And what I do know is that 2 hours a day is hardly the gamebreaking player. Lets be real here:

    1) The avg person is awake for about 16 hours a day.

    2) Younger kids, because they need less sleep, are generally awake 18+ hours a day

    3) 2 hours out of a 16 hour day is not much at all...its practically nothing. You still have 14 hours to play with friends, hang with family, exercise, etc etc. Even with half of those 16 hours taken by school/work...that still leaves 6 hours in the day to study/play with friends/do rl stuff.

    My point is that 2 hours a day for any activity is pretty moderate. You're acting like 2 hours daily is hardcore and it really isn't. The majority of Americans watch about that much TV on a daily basis...and if i remember correctly the figure was actually higher than 2 hours.

    I agree with everything you say except for that. Being someone who has played 2 hours a day for a limited amount of time (a week max) I can tell you that I didn't get anywhere fast at all. Also, you said this in another post, but I'm gonna tell you right now that 3-4 hours daily is not no-lifing. Its definitely playing too much, but I wouldn't call it no-lifing. No-lifing is more like 6-8+ a day.

    Look, i know it's somewhat relative but let's get a couple of things straight.

    Kids should not be getting less than 8 hour sleep a night, that they can easily manage doesn't mean it's healthy. Is the other way around, seniors do effectively require less sleep. And your comment on time management does seem to leave out the fact most people either work 8 hours a day or dedicate an equivalent amount of time to productive activities. Even if you're lucky enough to only work 6 hours a day you still have to take into account meals and commute times. And don't tell me that owning your own bussiness will afford you more time, those people work longer hours as a general rule.

    So, out of 24 hours you sleep for eight and work for eight, which leaves you eight hours. A couple you miss in either commutes or meals, that's six. One you have to give to general hygiene (showers, brushing your teeth, shaving/make up, clipping your nails, physiological needs, etc.), one to exercise, and one to general household stuff (paying bills, running errands, buying groceries, laundry, etc.) which makes three. That's for your friends/family and leisure which, amongst adults, may also include music, books, movies, etc. Some of us actually do go to the theater... Now, you may say you don't exercise or don't actually spend a full hour a day in toiletries (which you should if we are talking about a healthy life) but even making whatever adjustments you like an adult will rarely have more than four hours (weekdays) to do as he/she chooses. Personally i have a maid that takes care of most stuff around the house, but i do take more than a couple of hours for meals since i do enjoy fine dining and either i'll go out and have a few drinks with some friends or will cook for myself while watching the tele. And as an adult i may sometimes have a friend over...

    Two hours seems about right to me, for a full week (playing three on weekends) that's two eight hour shifts worth of playtime, which is certainly what i would consider comitted to a hobby. More than that and you're cutting into some other important aspect of your life. Two hours a day with a wife and kids i don't see how i could manage, as it is i may not log in everyday already. Four hours a day is already the equivalent of a part time job.

    Sure, i understand there may be special cases. If you're stuck on an hospital doing a round of chemo then by all means play for as long as you like.

    And for the people who seemed to have jumped at my comment about those playing over two hours ruining the game just look at what is it exactly such players demand from the GMs/devs. The shut-ins, basement dwellers, lonely kids and no lifers in general do have an inordinate amount of clout over the comunity. And do use their power to further their own ends, not to benefit us all...
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    And for the people who seemed to have jumped at my comment about those playing over two hours ruining the game just look at what is it exactly such players demand from the GMs/devs. The shut-ins, basement dwellers, lonely kids and no lifers in general do have an inordinate amount of clout over the comunity. And do use their power to further their own ends, not to benefit us all...

    I only play a couple hours a day at most, but way to be an idiot. Insult those you disagree with much?

    Thank you, I have a life, I'll choose when and how much time I wish to spend, but your 'observations' are just pure stupidity. Maybe you would like to dictate how much time someone should spend, and I don't necessarily agree or disagree... it's not really my place to put time constraints on others' time spent for entertainment, but I certainly don't berate anyone who doesn't follow your idealistic tripe.

    Seems you're just butthurt because some people can spend more time in-game than you and can advance further? This is an Oriental MMO. It's designed to suck all of your free time and money. Yes, it's a game, but it was originally designed to have very long term goals, some of which would take years to accomplish. That isn't necessarily a bad thing and no matter how much excessive verbiage you want to throw at the truth doesn't change it.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Oneji - Heavens Tear
    Oneji - Heavens Tear Posts: 310 Arc User
    edited September 2010
    Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »
    I only play a couple hours a day at most, but way to be an idiot. Insult those you disagree with much?

    Thank you, I have a life, I'll choose when and how much time I wish to spend, but your 'observations' are just pure stupidity. Maybe you would like to dictate how much time someone should spend, and I don't necessarily agree or disagree... it's not really my place to put time constraints on others' time spent for entertainment, but I certainly don't berate anyone who doesn't follow your idealistic tripe.

    Seems you're just butthurt because some people can spend more time in-game than you and can advance further? This is an Oriental MMO. It's designed to suck all of your free time and money. Yes, it's a game, but it was originally designed to have very long term goals, some of which would take years to accomplish. That isn't necessarily a bad thing and no matter how much excessive verbiage you want to throw at the truth doesn't change it.

    Let me think about this........Nob:bye.

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