What`s the sence to play veno ?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You've said it yourself, an herc isn't really important in squads...

It takes as much effort to put red text in a reply than it does to quote properly.

edit: I mean, you obviously took the time to type something... but apparently you don't want a reply to it... so why bother responding to it at all? Is it really too hard to bracket the text "/quote" and then put your responses there? I mean really. b:bye

Krel - Heavens Tear

i think the lvl available to gain a herc should be 70..why should a lower lvl veno aquire a super tool??? why not place a super weapon for each of the otehr classes in the cash shop????????????

TigerLily - Lost City

Herc and nix are endgame pets for venos. Its not really something you're suppose to have at lvl 10. Its something you save for and maybe have money for at 90+.

All classes comes with massive endgame costs, paying 80 mil for a pet is pretty low if you compare it to all the hundred of millions you will spend on endgame gear, lvl 11 skills and refines eventually b:surrender.

Zairi - Dreamweaver

Never ever will i have a Herc because its plain UGLY!!!
I refuse to have the sight one the mob blocked by an ugly golden Ogre.b:shocked

Besides that the "new" Glacial Walker is less ugly and just as good as a Magmicite.

If ever i most likely will go for the Nix because actually that one looks nice and if i spend 80 million coins it has to look good. b:chuckle

Im not that high jet but judgeing from the stats if i fail to tank a boss with my Pebble (Glacial Walker) and a Herc Veno doesnt its more likely me who sucks not the Pet.b:laugh

And uh.. i didnt knew that to transfair sparks to others or to amplify damage a Herc is required. :P
As for Reflect i can just put that on the Pebble too, like others stated before.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

It takes as much effort to put red text in a reply than it does to quote properly.

edit: I mean, you obviously took the time to type something... but apparently you don't want a reply to it... so why bother responding to it at all? Is it really too hard to bracket the text "/quote" and then put your responses there? I mean really. b:bye

Seriously? I mean, should i dot my i's with little hearts too? And what is this? You did took the time to say you won't acknowledge a response that didn't live up to your anal retentive standard? I would think anyone that heavily invests their time in an MMO would know to get a screen that isn't defeated by glare... or really just go to Wal-Wart and get at least a shower curtain if you can't afford any better. Must really suck to know when you go in the net that you have to avoid any music sites that use dark red lettering over a black background. But then i'm guessing your type of music would call for different color schemes. Maybe something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVJ11GXzXQ

Way to go Michael "Dark".

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seriously? I mean, should i dot my i's with little hearts too? And what is this? You did took the time to say you won't acknowledge a response that didn't live up to your anal retentive standard? I would think anyone that heavily invests their time in an MMO would know to get a screen that isn't defeated by glare... or really just go to Wal-Wart and get at least a shower curtain if you can't afford any better. Must really suck to know when you go in the net that you have to avoid any music sites that use dark red lettering over a black background. But then i'm guessing your type of music would call for different color schemes. Maybe something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfVJ11GXzXQ

Way to go Michael "Dark".

Time to get this thing locked up for good.

You misunderstood. He meant that you just could have posted it after it his post, not inside it. Posting your comments in quotes is always a bad idea. Say whatever you want but I wouldn't get butthurt over that.

Tonttuu - Heavens Tear

Zairi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Never ever will i have a Herc because its plain UGLY!!!
I refuse to have the sight one the mob blocked by an ugly golden Ogre.b:shocked

Besides that the "new" Glacial Walker is less ugly and just as good as a Magmicite.

If ever i most likely will go for the Nix because actually that one looks nice and if i spend 80 million coins it has to look good. b:chuckle

Im not that high jet but judgeing from the stats if i fail to tank a boss with my Pebble (Glacial Walker) and a Herc Veno doesnt its more likely me who sucks not the Pet.b:laugh

And uh.. i didnt knew that to transfair sparks to others or to amplify damage a Herc is required. :P
As for Reflect i can just put that on the Pebble too, like others stated before.

sure glacial walker is better than herc with glacial u can solo TT's in squad mode and so on rite ? b:cute

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Time to get this thing locked up for good.

You misunderstood. He meant that you just could have posted it after it his post, not inside it. Posting your comments in quotes is always a bad idea. Say whatever you want but I wouldn't get butthurt over that.

You mean like this?

Or is this any better?

And i didn't get "butthurt" (i'm actually quite enjoying myself) but apparently i'll have to start using something to indicate sarcasm. Thanks for the pro tips. Er, i meant //Thanks for the pro tips//.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Herc and nix are endgame pets for venos. Its not really something you're suppose to have at lvl 10. Its something you save for and maybe have money for at 90+.

I would disagree.

Unlike gear, which has a requisite level therefore clearly defining what stage in the game you should be able to use it, Herc has no requisite level. If you have the money for a Herc at level one (either through some serious saving on other characters or through simple use of the catshop) then there should be nothing stopping you from getting one.

My veno got her Herc at 6x after I saved up and saved up and saved up and bought SoF slowly over time. There's nothing in the game that says I should have waited until 90+ to get it, and there's nothing in the game that says I should have had to wait to buy my Herc after working damned hard to save up for one.

Similarly, Hercs aren't a necessity, because as has been said, a Magmite or Walker with the same buffs is easily just as good.

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

Well here's what I have to say about this (coming from a non-veno user).
When I run FFs/TTs and I specifically ask for a Veno. This is how my PM list looks like

xx Herc veno
xx Herc veno
xx Herc veno
xx Veno with walker but can tank ^^

Erm, Ok. I always ask the squad or primarily the tanker. If I am tanking. I usually invite the Hercless veno. For one, if I wanted the veno to tank that would mean I would have to go axes or else I'd still be stealing aggro, the other classes would have to hold back a bit as well (Plus, I know how hard it is for the veno without a herc to get in to an FF/TT squad so a nice gesture can brighten someone's day up :P).
Now usually when there's a barb in the squad. I'll ask him/her if she would like the Veno to tank. But then I also specifically tell him if he does want the veno to tank that I and the other fist/claw users will have to hold back. I understand the barb wanting to cut back on his/her repair costs. But if that means that all other DDs will be randomly getting aggro'd and killed or that we have to go a lot slower to be able to have the Herc/Pet keep aggro on the bosses..
Well, no thanks. I'd rather tell the barb that he just tanks and invite any venomancer for the reason why I wanted one. Debuffs, buffs, giving chi when needed.

Now, that of course is me. But there's plenty of buttfaces on here that will most likely "WANT" a hercules veno. And 9/10 times it'll be the tanker that wants a hercules to be there to take some tanking load off of him/her.
All in all, it's just like the new "claw/fist" fad. A month or two ago, I have never or rarely have ever seen someone WCing "LF Claw BM/Archer for 4 man nirvana squad".
So, just like venos and hercs. BMs and Archers also now have a new requirement they must meet when going in to a couple of instances.
You can either take a bit more time to find a squad that doesn't care that you don't have one. Or just give in, save up for one and find squads easier.
When it comes down to it (that phrase has been used a lot in this topic ._.) Hercules pets ARE available, so there's no point in arguing how it "used to be done". And the sheer amount of venos that own a Hercules make it very, very, very easy to find a herc veno for your squad. And a lot of people will take advantage of that and do exactly as I said. Go for the herc veno purely because there's enough of them and it comes with a sense of security when there's a herc veno in the squad (for some).

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

No it cannot be done without cashshop if all venos were to have hercs. Simple common sense. Charging ZEN, however, is the only way to bring that stuff into circulation. It will never dry out, because it's the source. No matter how many people do it. b:bye

Um.. where do coins come from? They come from quests and grinding, the more people quest and grind, the cheaper everything becomes. As soon as BH missions started, people stopped questing and grinding for xp, so the coinage dried up, causing prices to go up over time. Packs are a whole other issue on the economy (10 mil notes from best luck tokens).

Doing BH and CS missions are coin sinks, you get more xp at the cost of less coin. This forces people to cashshop to make up for the lack of coin, that or they end up a high level with crappy gear.

"It's all about the quest n grind baby, keep the coins flowin ya know." )

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear

Jhalil - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well here's what I have to say about this (coming from a non-veno user).
When I run FFs/TTs and I specifically ask for a Veno. This is how my PM list looks like

xx Herc veno
xx Herc veno
xx Herc veno
xx Veno with walker but can tank ^^

Erm, Ok. I always ask the squad or primarily the tanker. If I am tanking. I usually invite the Hercless veno. For one, if I wanted the veno to tank that would mean I would have to go axes or else I'd still be stealing aggro, the other classes would have to hold back a bit as well (Plus, I know how hard it is for the veno without a herc to get in to an FF/TT squad so a nice gesture can brighten someone's day up :P).
Now usually when there's a barb in the squad. I'll ask him/her if she would like the Veno to tank. But then I also specifically tell him if he does want the veno to tank that I and the other fist/claw users will have to hold back. I understand the barb wanting to cut back on his/her repair costs. But if that means that all other DDs will be randomly getting aggro'd and killed or that we have to go a lot slower to be able to have the Herc/Pet keep aggro on the bosses..
Well, no thanks. I'd rather tell the barb that he just tanks and invite any venomancer for the reason why I wanted one. Debuffs, buffs, giving chi when needed.

Now, that of course is me. But there's plenty of buttfaces on here that will most likely "WANT" a hercules veno. And 9/10 times it'll be the tanker that wants a hercules to be there to take some tanking load off of him/her.
All in all, it's just like the new "claw/fist" fad. A month or two ago, I have never or rarely have ever seen someone WCing "LF Claw BM/Archer for 4 man nirvana squad".
So, just like venos and hercs. BMs and Archers also now have a new requirement they must meet when going in to a couple of instances.
You can either take a bit more time to find a squad that doesn't care that you don't have one. Or just give in, save up for one and find squads easier.
When it comes down to it (that phrase has been used a lot in this topic ._.) Hercules pets ARE available, so there's no point in arguing how it "used to be done". And the sheer amount of venos that own a Hercules make it very, very, very easy to find a herc veno for your squad. And a lot of people will take advantage of that and do exactly as I said. Go for the herc veno purely because there's enough of them and it comes with a sense of security when there's a herc veno in the squad (for some).

/respect

I noticed a change when people started calling themselves "Herc Veno" instead of just veno. That label changed perceptions of what a veno's true role was.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You mean like this?

Or is this any better?

Yes, much better. I don't care what color. I just like quoting the text I am responding to. When I press the quote key, if none of your text comes up, I can't respond to what you're saying directly, so I don't. I don't care about your grammar, your spelling or how you like to phrase anything. See it's a page later, and this response has context. b:surrender

edit: and re-read that, I wasn't being disrespectful.

Yindra - Sanctuary

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Um.. where do coins come from? They come from quests and grinding, the more people quest and grind, the cheaper everything becomes. As soon as BH missions started, people stopped questing and grinding for xp, so the coinage dried up, causing prices to go up over time.

Actually:

• Lack of money -> prices go down
• Too many items on sale -> prices go down
• Lots of money -> prices go up
• Lack of items on sale -> prices go up

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually:

• Lack of money -> prices go down
• Too many items on sale -> prices go down
• Lots of money -> prices go up
• Lack of items on sale -> prices go up

Correct. Dev's might have started thinking about this hyper/frost/3xBH/etc. (in China, you can't use hypers in frost) before the anniversary and thinking "I think we should have some kind of coin flood since people will stop grinding if we introduce this". Ie. to balance coin flooding in economy and out of economy. They failed though.

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually:

• Lack of money -> prices go down
• Too many items on sale -> prices go down
• Lots of money -> prices go up
• Lack of items on sale -> prices go up

Good point I didn't think about that. Imagine if nobody earned coin and just kept dumping coins into sinks, would there eventually be no coins??

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Dandelyn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Good point I didn't think about that. Imagine if nobody earned coin and just kept dumping coins into sinks, would there eventually be no coins??

packs bring large amounts of coins




the source!
the source of evil

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

you have to really love it now, to go on without a herc. it got down to a choice between my cleric and my veno recently, because of the costs of running both. i have up my cleric, because with charms, scrolls, dolls and posts its impossible for our family to afford. and you have to figure that the higher you get, the less help you will get from any guild...i've been in so many, and in each one, no matter how often i offer to help others, no one wants me, and i recieve help for maybe two quests. once they find out all i have is golems and AA, no one wants my help....

and its bloody stupid, to make coin sinks, taking away coin chests and other means for the poor of the game to try to get ahead a little. now, without the coin chests, i will never be able to have enough to shop the AH for gear i need to advance.


so, you go on, because there are beautiful and fun pets to be caught and played with. look at it as a way to relax, going out in the prettier parts of the map to play, and listen to the music....its the best i've been able to do, at my level.

LadySam - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What`s the sence to play with veno when maby 1 on 1000 venos can afford herc b:sad . Always when i get in squad they ask me : "Do you have herc"
Well this sucks . After 90 + when you`ll have to do RB and FFs they won`t inv. venos without herc . b:surrender
The cost of one herc is 80 mil ! Now days there`s no way to get that much without CS . b:cry
So tell me what`s the sence to play with veno ?

TigerLily - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I would disagree.

Unlike gear, which has a requisite level therefore clearly defining what stage in the game you should be able to use it, Herc has no requisite level. If you have the money for a Herc at level one (either through some serious saving on other characters or through simple use of the catshop) then there should be nothing stopping you from getting one.

My veno got her Herc at 6x after I saved up and saved up and saved up and bought SoF slowly over time. There's nothing in the game that says I should have waited until 90+ to get it, and there's nothing in the game that says I should have had to wait to buy my Herc after working damned hard to save up for one.

Similarly, Hercs aren't a necessity, because as has been said, a Magmite or Walker with the same buffs is easily just as good.

I did not say you should wait, if you have the cash get both pets at lvl 1. Legendary pets makes your life so much easier as veno, specially leveling.

I had my nix at lvl 20 and my herc at 60 without cash shopping, but as an old player that can make money in game relatively easy that wasn't a big deal. I knew i needed them for farming and would have great use of them.

But for new players that doesn't cash shop and just play casually, aiming to have your endgame pets at 8X-9X is pretty reasonable imo. If you know what you want and can get them earlier, than congrats.

Just so silly with all these lvl 30-60 venos raging and having major panic attacks because they cant get Nix/Herc - they assume its every venos rights to get cash shopped pets asap. Herc and nix is after all the best pets you can get and it makes you char so much stronger, its not something that's suppose to be easy to get.

tweakz

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you have to really love it now, to go on without a herc. it got down to a choice between my cleric and my veno recently, because of the costs of running both. i have up my cleric, because with charms, scrolls, dolls and posts its impossible for our family to afford. and you have to figure that the higher you get, the less help you will get from any guild...i've been in so many, and in each one, no matter how often i offer to help others, no one wants me, and i recieve help for maybe two quests. once they find out all i have is golems and AA, no one wants my help....

Guilds are just wrong when they advertise "helpful". Every guild is helpful. We have a pool of people we can organize with for free. The problem is people asking for help and pestering. I don't expect someone to fly or tp across the map to help me with a boss that I can find already forming squads for. I also happen to grind a lot near a boss people need daily (and it costs me over ~100k of time to do usually.) I don't think people should have to sacrifice to help.

and its bloody stupid, to make coin sinks, taking away coin chests and other means for the poor of the game to try to get ahead a little. now, without the coin chests, i will never be able to have enough to shop the AH for gear i need to advance.

I'm a non cash shopper who's admittedly bad at the market. I still manage to place in the top 5 for venos in the event most of the time, and even got first place once without the multi-box trick. I can't keep up with the heavy cash shoppers (understandable), but I can do decent.

so, you go on, because there are beautiful and fun pets to be caught and played with. look at it as a way to relax, going out in the prettier parts of the map to play, and listen to the music....its the best i've been able to do, at my level.

Ugh.. there's a real life out there that holds much more beauty than anything in this game. Do you not even have a window where you are?

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Yes, much better. I don't care what color. I just like quoting the text I am responding to. When I press the quote key, if none of your text comes up, I can't respond to what you're saying directly, so I don't. I don't care about your grammar, your spelling or how you like to phrase anything. See it's a page later, and this response has context. b:surrender

edit: and re-read that, I wasn't being disrespectful.

Cool, i respect your answer. I do apologize to you and Kupuntu if i was overly hostile.

Hercs only use reflect when tanking, my point being that in a squad context this slows things down as this means greatly gimped damage for every other member of the group. For raw dps output, a Wanderer or a Scorp will outperform an herc if an actual tank (Barb, BM, Sin, etc.) is handling the boss.

A veno fortunately no longer relies on simply reaming her oponent in PvP, which means the pet has become less of a factor. While the nix far advantages every other pet, there remain other choices for competent and skilled venos, such as Sawfly or Skatefish. Pounce a Shaodu Cub gets, although IMO Occult Ice makes for a better choice if fighting without a nix. Basically a veno's best bet is to somehow manage to purge her target without getting killed in the process, which requires skill and not a CS pet. Ideally the Absolute Domain + Feral Concentration combo would be the better choice but i'm well aware this tactic is not unexpected and can be responded to. Now i won't go into much detail since this is only an opinion and as i have stated previously a carebear lowbie has no place discussing PvP tactics, i merely respond to your comment. But i think in the end we both agree that while PvP does require the best of gear available to any given player, it comes down to skill and tactics to be succesful. Hence my comment about the nix not being a win button.

Muah - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

your join date is may 2009, which means you've been playing for 14 months at least. not everything is attainable after doing a quest or at the drop of a hat. if you want it work for it, if you dont want to make you character more useful by getting a valuable tool for it that requires some work to get, you only have yourself to blame.

would you descriminate against a level 8x still using a TT60 sword or the supply stash sword, or against a lvl 100 barb still wearing lvl 7x mold gear "cause the repair costs are lower"? Hell yeah you would because its obvious that these people are not interested in improving their character, they just want to level up, and be a 100 with **** gear, where guess what, you'll get kicked from squad as soon as someone looks at your gear.

like you said, it would take you 3 months of casual playing at your current pace to save up for a herc, this sounds about right for most people, and about the amount of time most people take to get one. so make an effort to get one. a lvl 100 veno without a herc and a nix is an undergeared veno.

nobody is taking a 9x cleric with level 80 gear on a RB delta
nobody is taking a 9x barb with 7x mold anywhere
nobody is taking a bm without a good deal of int gear to nirvava (interval gear is considerably more expensive than a herc btw)

high level gear is expensive and take some work to get it, but its quite rewarding when you accomplish a goal.

+1 and someone was right it is QQ. >_> As for the bold statement. It is true.. because if you go to BH's or anything where you will be hit and the gear is what protects you.. being undergeared means you will probably be 1 hit.. a Barb(for example) with **** gear in BH100's will get 1k'd in RB or cause a squad wipe. That means you failed and need to go back out(even skilled barbs can be 1k'd at wave 3). The herc in a way makes up for the under geared tanks b:chuckle . I know from experience.. I've had tanks die and I spam healed long enough til the boss/mobs died or til the clerics got everyone up. Including themselves at times. Its just another weapon in your arsenal.

also...

Those buffs the herc comes with aren't exactly cheap (they are rare scrolls).. the amount it would take to attain all of the buffs would cost you a herc in time and coin. So that point is moot.

Acquired Baby Hercules at lvl 79. And Baby Phoenix at lvl 87. And I still grinded to 102.. Time to lvl the pets againb:cryb:surrender

Siuki - Dreamweaver

every veno can get money for herc if starts farming. i usually see venos getting herc at lvl 80ish. i farmed money in tt for herc at lvl 75 or smth close to that. And no1 have ever asked me "do i have herc" when i join squad. wait for double drop weeks and farm tt nonstop. even with low tt mat price you will save up millions. Also no1 have asked me to ever tank any of FC bosses, so i was more wondering why they didn't ask me do i have dd pet which is much better than herc in FC.

vristion

If you can stay away from the ubber fly gear and ZOMG awesome new mounts, and dont require a wardrobe of shoes to match every dress and blouse you have... Hold off on needing absolutely every slot filled with your current lvl TT gear (especially considering the herc is your best armor anyway)....you could/would have a herc in no time.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Ew. Not just a necro, but a necro of a thread I remember to be really stupid.