I dont wanna be a fail veno
MageMERC - Harshlands
Posts: 1,600 Arc User
I have posted in the general section to get other classes opinons.
My veno is 46 atm so Im getting there but heres the thing
I been doing a lot of bh 59's on this cleric, and I dont think I've EVER seen a veno jump into fox-form at a boss to de-buff the boss.
Im sure I've read other threads where its been stated that aside from luring, one of the biggest roles of the veno is to de-buff the boss to allow the tanks and dd's to make more damage, and for that reason a veno needs those certain fox-form skills.
Can I get some opinions/comments on this please.
My veno is 46 atm so Im getting there but heres the thing
I been doing a lot of bh 59's on this cleric, and I dont think I've EVER seen a veno jump into fox-form at a boss to de-buff the boss.
Im sure I've read other threads where its been stated that aside from luring, one of the biggest roles of the veno is to de-buff the boss to allow the tanks and dd's to make more damage, and for that reason a veno needs those certain fox-form skills.
Can I get some opinions/comments on this please.
Post edited by MageMERC - Harshlands on
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Comments
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It's not only debuff. I haven't come across a boss yet that I had to debuff. I think more important, at least at lower levels, is "amplify damage". This helps the squad deal more damage and so makes the boss go down more quickly. I do this at nearly every boss, except if my pet is tanking, and even then if I can squeeze it in between the heals. The exception being if the boss has low HP to begin with (like 100-500k), here I don't bother, because I am losing some MP when I switch to fox.0
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The only two worthwhile Fox Form debuffs are Sage Soul Degeneration (-20% hp) and Amplify Damage (level 10 version is 20% extra damage for 20 sec, Sage is 30% for 20 sec, Demon is 25% for 26 sec). Amp applied every time it cools down is like adding an extra person to a 5 or 6 person squad, so you definitely want to keep it applied. In most full groups, sitting in fox form and hiting Amp every 30 sec will contribute more damage than if you went all-out nuking.
Supposedly regular Soul Degen (stops hp regen) is useful on certain bosses with insane regen, but I have never seen anyone claiming this name the boss(es).
Purge is useful on Quillhog King, 2-2 and 2-3 Cosmo, Ancient Evil, maybe a few other high level ones I haven't met yet. It's so infrequently used I don't even hotkey it. PvPers say it's devastating against players though.0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Purge is useful on Quillhog King, 2-2 and 2-3 Cosmo, Ancient Evil, maybe a few other high level ones I haven't met yet. It's so infrequently used I don't even hotkey it. PvPers say it's devastating against players though.
Nothing like dropping a Purge on a Demon Wizard that is getting ganked by melees. Even better when the Wizard is 10x and the veno is 30. b:chuckle100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Right now this is a huge complaint of mine.
My 78 Herc veno can solo her BHs in 59 with ease, and 98% of my BHs in there I have soloed. Lately, however, I've been trying to insert myself into squads because it just makes the whole thing faster. It's also reminded me why I hate BH and why I hate stupid squads.
You know there's an issue when there is a three veno squad yet you are the one tanking and amping and passing chi if anybody may need it and luring. There are so many things wrong in a squad if there are three venos, and two of them are so incompetent they can't do the most basic of things.
People say that BH doesn't create noobs and I would heartily like to disagree. By level 7x, if venos didn't know to amp, lure, purge and give chi, they were told to play a different class because that is basic neglect of every role a veno has. Yet now we have these BH idiots who can't play their own class. What's worse is that nobody (besides me) told these venos that they were being downright lazy and not bothering to play their class properly, and that they're probably going to be 10x players one day who still have no idea that they should have levelled purge and maxed amp and yes, Lending Hand is useful if you're planning to play in a squad.
Don't be like the failure venos I described. Players who know what they're doing and know what you're supposed to do will never thank you for it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Theres definatly to many useless venos then useful ones, BH definatly creates high lvl noobs for 2 reasons, especialy if they dont cash shop the hell out of the game,
1) they level to fast without pve'ing mobs dealing with lil different situations and playing with there skills to get to see there usefulness.
2) because all they do is BH and not grinding enough, there not gaining enough cash to level there skills and all they have lvled is the ones they deem maby useful or was just cheap enough to buy and actualy useless anyway.
but yea, this game is basic anyway, and when u see ppl, venos especialy that cant play the most easyiest class properly it makes me feel ill, even in BH, everytime i use BB, obviously that uses 2 sparks and some venos dont even think twice about passing me chi, on some occasions ive had to ask for chi every single time i BB when they shud get the message to pass me chi after every BB or so, then yea on bosses they cant even do the useful thing and amp the damage, instead they sit there holding what ever F key to cast that weak **** envenom parasite over and over and even barly use ironwood scarab to decrease defense.
imo, BH (and FC) creates high lvl noobs, and venos just make noobs them self on the majority.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Kantorek: we hope to see the economy in PWI come back "down to earth" if you will."
*One week later*
"Frankieraye: Lucky Corals and Platinum Charms are going to be in the Boutique indefinitely."
*few months later, PWI puts rank8/9 into the CS insanely cheap, raising gold 1mill+*0 -
Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »imo, BH (and FC) creates high lvl noobs, and venos just make noobs them self on the majority.
Given that most FC squads will take level 80 players at lowest these days and typically most squads are 85+ I'd have to disagree with your statement.
If a venomancer doesn't know to Amp, Purge, pass chi and use Ironwood by level 80, they were already failures. If anything, FC would slap some brains into the little morons because it's the one instance where venos will have to pass chi the majority of the time and they will be asked to use Amp if they're too stupid to do it themselves.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think I saw maybe five venos amping the boss in all the BH59 runs I did. There were a couple who used Lending Hand to tank, but when I tanked and had a veno in a squad I never got one spark.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Given that most FC squads will take level 80 players at lowest these days and typically most squads are 85+ I'd have to disagree with your statement.
you can disagree as its ur opinion, but its not just venos that fail in FC, theres alot of BMs aswell, about 30% of FC runs i do, on the occasions i have to keep BB up till my MP is about dry on even the 1st few lures in FC due to the BM failing to spam aoes till all the mobs are dead, instead i see some of them aoe the target till its dead then attack the gate guard, then start swinging at the individual mobs when theres still like 10 of them about (yay to waste mp), its also similar with areas dealing with bishops, alot of the time they just swing there attack and dont bother to stun...wish i cud figure why.
this is some people around the 85 lvl aswell, idk if there just being tight on there MP useage with aoes, or just to stupid to finish them off with aoes, its harder to notice higher lvl noobs in FC apart from BM and veno, as all the other classes have to do is simply DD and that doesnt take a rocket scientist to do.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Kantorek: we hope to see the economy in PWI come back "down to earth" if you will."
*One week later*
"Frankieraye: Lucky Corals and Platinum Charms are going to be in the Boutique indefinitely."
*few months later, PWI puts rank8/9 into the CS insanely cheap, raising gold 1mill+*0 -
Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »Stuff
You clearly misunderstood. First of all, I was specifically talking about venomancers and not BMs because this thread is about venomancers.
Second of all, the part of your opinion I disagreed with was that FC makes a fail veno. Like I said: if a venomancer (or any class if you're going to be so generic about it) can't play their class by 80+ then they were already failures. FC did not make them any more or any less of a failure because they clearly didn't already know what they were doing.
I never said other classes don't fail in FC, because they do. I never said that people aren't failures after FC, because some are. What I said was that FC does not make a failure, because by level 80 or above you should already know your class nearly inside-out, with the exception of demon or sage skills.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »I have posted in the general section to get other classes opinons.
My veno is 46 atm so Im getting there but heres the thing
I been doing a lot of bh 59's on this cleric, and I dont think I've EVER seen a veno jump into fox-form at a boss to de-buff the boss.
Im sure I've read other threads where its been stated that aside from luring, one of the biggest roles of the veno is to de-buff the boss to allow the tanks and dd's to make more damage, and for that reason a veno needs those certain fox-form skills.
Can I get some opinions/comments on this please.
Buffs/Debuffs/Lending Hand are the most important of the Veno's jobs if their pet is not tanking.
I remember when I first started running TTs with my faction...3 venos in squad one herc tanking, one DDing and helping to heal, one healing and the third debuffing boss and DDing while debuffs in cooldown. It was more fun to see everyone in the squad working together instead of trying to outdamage each other.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lvl10XBarb
Lvl10XArcher
lvl10XAssassin0 -
XylolyX - Heavens Tear wrote: »Buffs/Debuffs/Lending Hand are the most important of the Veno's jobs if their pet is not tanking.
I remember when I first started running TTs with my faction...3 venos in squad one herc tanking, one DDing and helping to heal, one healing and the third debuffing boss and DDing while debuffs in cooldown. It was more fun to see everyone in the squad working together instead of trying to outdamage each other.
Would you care to switch servers and tell that to the venos my alt ends up in a squad with? These days, certainly in any BH I end up in, the veno with the Herc is the veno to do everything. And it's starting to **** me off a great deal.
It's faster for me to squad up by quite a while (easily half an hour saved at least in a whole chain) but soloing is certainly far less trouble, has far less of a chance to fail and is in fact far nicer then squadding. Simply because, in a squad, my veno is left to do every role that any venomancer has. It's like a veno with a Herc these days is a free ticket for everybody to do stupid **** and hope the Herc veno fixes it. Or at least... that's certainly what BH59 squads are looking like right now.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MageMERC - Harshlands wrote: »I have posted in the general section to get other classes opinons.
My veno is 46 atm so Im getting there but heres the thing
I been doing a lot of bh 59's on this cleric, and I dont think I've EVER seen a veno jump into fox-form at a boss to de-buff the boss.
Im sure I've read other threads where its been stated that aside from luring, one of the biggest roles of the veno is to de-buff the boss to allow the tanks and dd's to make more damage, and for that reason a veno needs those certain fox-form skills.
Can I get some opinions/comments on this please.
To get this back on topic:
Amp damage every time it resets, purge if you see that the boss has a buff to it that is giving it some benefit, toss sparks to your tanks if they need them (clerics and dd's need sparks too if the tank doesnt), keep the party brambled (for those who don't QQ about being brambled), and remember not to hit like a ton of bricks if you are using your pet to tank.
I felt the same way you do right now when I started my veno. I was so scared to run in parties with my friends until I was "sure" I had control over my veno because I did not wanna be that "failed BLEEP veno" that killed the party because I didn't know how to lure, or I didn't do all I could to keep the party alive. Truth is playing by yourself is alot different then playing in a party. Just be mindful of what is going on with the party members and take the time to read through what your skills do, and you should do fine.0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Would you care to switch servers and tell that to the venos my alt ends up in a squad with? These days, certainly in any BH I end up in, the veno with the Herc is the veno to do everything. And it's starting to **** me off a great deal.
It's faster for me to squad up by quite a while (easily half an hour saved at least in a whole chain) but soloing is certainly far less trouble, has far less of a chance to fail and is in fact far nicer then squadding. Simply because, in a squad, my veno is left to do every role that any venomancer has. It's like a veno with a Herc these days is a free ticket for everybody to do stupid **** and hope the Herc veno fixes it. Or at least... that's certainly what BH59 squads are looking like right now.
LMFAO you too huh. You wanna save time and run it in squad but OMFG!!!!
And God forbid you have to be the one to tank because every DD in the party thinks it is cute to **** aggro off the herc, get themselves killed, and then QQ they died and it is all the hercs fault. In the meantime, you have parasitic nova'd your way into hades and back to try and save the idiots. OOOOO how in hades did I forget that ...
PARASITIC NOVA IS A MUST for a veno. You are going to rely HEAVILY on this in the higher level instances, especially if you have aggro bouncing all over the place, or people in party with "pulling genies" who just pulled the entire room because they are too impatient to wait 3 seconds for your pet to stow and come back out =\0 -
EmeraldFire - Lost City wrote: »And God forbid you have to be the one to tank because every DD in the party thinks it is cute to **** aggro off the herc, get themselves killed, and then QQ they died and it is all the hercs fault. In the meantime, you have parasitic nova'd your way into hades and back to try and save the idiots. OOOOO how in hades did I forget that ...
So true.
My last impressive steal was of a 79 cleric who couldn't be bothered to wait for the Herc to go and grab Drake.
Get this: a 79 cleric, CHARMED I will add, and she couldn't tank Drake. She double sparked before my Herc could even go and grab Drake after the lure, took aggro, died shortly afterwards, at which point aggro bounced around between the other DDs because none of them waited for the Herc to get aggro back and it took a near entire squad wipe for people to learn that if you don't wait for the Herc to take aggro, you're going to get it instead.
Given that Drake was also the last in the chain, I was well beyond even trying to get aggro back. The squad had been predominantly fail the entire run, and at one point I took my Herc's bash off out of spite so they'd all grab aggro. Childish perhaps, but hey I had a lot of fun watching that mess.
(And that was only one example of a failure squad where my poor veno alt was left to tank, give chi, amp and lure in a run. I have so many stories I could tell. )[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
Given that Drake was also the last in the chain, I was well beyond even trying to get aggro back. The squad had been predominantly fail the entire run, and at one point I took my Herc's bash off out of spite so they'd all grab aggro. Childish perhaps, but hey I had a lot of fun watching that mess.
(And that was only one example of a failure squad where my poor veno alt was left to tank, give chi, amp and lure in a run. I have so many stories I could tell. )
LMAO so sad, but ya sounds all too familiar. And you are right it might very well be childish, but I have done it too out of frustration. Everyone triple sparks, crits like mad, and the **** aggro like crazy.
I am married to a mage in game, so I opted for Roar instead of Bash. That way if he accidentally takes aggro I know I can get it back real fast, but TBH there have been many times I have turned it off and just let aggro go because of everyone trying to get done so fast. Figured what is the point.
Clerics do make some of the best DD's in the game, but I do not call DD'ing clerics clerics, they are metal mages to me. Said this before, if your greatest accomplishment as a cleric is lvl 11 tempest you are a metal mage not a cleric. Clerics heal and are mindful of their parties HP. If lighting sparks are flying and people are dieing, then ya. Being that I am on Lost City, ya I am REALLY spoiled when it comes to clerics. Aniuta, RedsRose,Nauth, Celebrianne, Southward, even PC..We have some REALLY good clerics on our server, and they set high standards,so blessed in that area.0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Would you care to switch servers and tell that to the venos my alt ends up in a squad with? These days, certainly in any BH I end up in, the veno with the Herc is the veno to do everything. And it's starting to **** me off a great deal.
It's faster for me to squad up by quite a while (easily half an hour saved at least in a whole chain) but soloing is certainly far less trouble, has far less of a chance to fail and is in fact far nicer then squadding. Simply because, in a squad, my veno is left to do every role that any venomancer has. It's like a veno with a Herc these days is a free ticket for everybody to do stupid **** and hope the Herc veno fixes it. Or at least... that's certainly what BH59 squads are looking like right now.
I'd squad with you anytime Airyll.
It's always fun to squad with people that know how to play their toons and have fun while doing it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lvl10XBarb
Lvl10XArcher
lvl10XAssassin0 -
Renza - Raging Tide wrote: »imo, BH (and FC) creates high lvl noobs, and venos just make noobs them self on the majority.
Actually...a lot of mediocre Venos that I've worked with were people who couldn't deal with their original classes that were told 'Hey! Go Veno! It's the easiest class! =D'. And thus they did. And, while they do manage to get stuff done due to the way Venos can just let the pet do all the work for simpler things, they implode under the weight of their own idiocy when it comes to anything that requires any actual effort. So I'd be inclined to think it's not really a creation process, so much as the character of the person behind the toon shining through more than anything.0 -
XylolyX - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's always fun to squad with people that know how to play their toons and have fun while doing it.
x infinity[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681
AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682
GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=9382820 -
Lure, debuff, use pet to save people, deal damage.
As long as you're doing at least that much, you're not failing.0 -
basics .BUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681
AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682
GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=9382820 -
Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »basics .
Absolutely. More is better. But do at least that much and then you can worry about the fiddly bits.0 -
Also pets don't gain exp from quest exp.. so go ahead and bh all day..road to fail venoRenza - Raging Tide wrote: »Theres definatly to many useless venos then useful ones, BH definatly creates high lvl noobs for 2 reasons, especialy if they dont cash shop the hell out of the game,
1) they level to fast without pve'ing mobs dealing with lil different situations and playing with there skills to get to see there usefulness.
2) because all they do is BH and not grinding enough, there not gaining enough cash to level there skills and all they have lvled is the ones they deem maby useful or was just cheap enough to buy and actualy useless anyway.
but yea, this game is basic anyway, and when u see ppl, venos especialy that cant play the most easyiest class properly it makes me feel ill, even in BH, everytime i use BB, obviously that uses 2 sparks and some venos dont even think twice about passing me chi, on some occasions ive had to ask for chi every single time i BB when they shud get the message to pass me chi after every BB or so, then yea on bosses they cant even do the useful thing and amp the damage, instead they sit there holding what ever F key to cast that weak **** envenom parasite over and over and even barly use ironwood scarab to decrease defense.
imo, BH (and FC) creates high lvl noobs, and venos just make noobs them self on the majority.0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »Would you care to switch servers and tell that to the venos my alt ends up in a squad with? These days, certainly in any BH I end up in, the veno with the Herc is the veno to do everything. And it's starting to **** me off a great deal.
It's faster for me to squad up by quite a while (easily half an hour saved at least in a whole chain) but soloing is certainly far less trouble, has far less of a chance to fail and is in fact far nicer then squadding. Simply because, in a squad, my veno is left to do every role that any venomancer has. It's like a veno with a Herc these days is a free ticket for everybody to do stupid **** and hope the Herc veno fixes it. Or at least... that's certainly what BH59 squads are looking like right now.
b:chuckleb:chuckleb:chuckle
i totally feel ya on this, and everyone else talking about the lazy venos.
in LC i am this veno with a herc that ends up doing everything, even if there's another veno or two in the squad... i end up luring everything (unless i just decide to take on the whole group of mob), and i even usually end up luring AND catching the bosses myself because the other venos just stand around like "durr... whats we doin in here again?"
if there's a herc and non herc veno in the squad, the herc shouldnt be the one luring, because everytime its stowed and resummoned, it has to be rebuffed which takes even more time and trouble for the one with the herc, the non herc veno should be the one to lure with a good luring pet (take ur pick, kowlin, eldergoth marksman, toughed cub/bear, whatever you like) and the herc should be standing buffed with bash on auto ready to catch the mob and tank it while the squad helps the herc kill the mob, the other veno readies another mob to come to the herc and squad, NOT the herc having to lure every mob, catch every mob, heal herc while buffs are reapplied, then lure another mob to repeat the whole process over again.
the lazy nub venos should just quit playing the class, they're making the pro's look bad b:angryi'm pro all classes, and against none in particular..
but the age old QQ about venos is just that. OLD.
QQ'd about a nix lately? check out this thread n tell me who's "OP" lol..
(copy and paste this to address bar):
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1021720 -
Ok i'm gonna argue the other side, because i've had my Veno (level 101) a loooooooong time, waaaay before BHs even existed and oracles werent even available from Jolly Jones yet. (I mention this so people dont think i'm a BH Oracle noob).
If you really really think about Amp Damage, it isnt that beneficial, not as much as everyone thinks. Lets do some math here shall we?
Amp lasts for 20 seconds out of every 33 seconds (30 second Cool Down + 3 seconds for channel & cast & general human reaction time). So it increases damage 20/33 for 60.6% of the time. At 20% increase thats a (.20 x .606) = 12.1% increase in overall damage output.
Now we also take into account that for 7 seconds (6 second CD + general human reactions & cast time (no channel) the veno goes into fox & is not damage dealing.
The Veno is if full time Damage Dealing, responsible for roughly 20% of the parties damage output. I'm using rough terms here, but we'll say 20% per 4 DPSers & 10% per healer & tank. These figures can fluctuate depending on many factors, but i think its a good rough estimate. Of the 20% the Veno is responsible for, 10% is pet, 10% is Veno. as mentioned above, 7 of every 33 seconds its now not DPSing, so its losing 21.2% of its own damage output. that comes from its 10%, so the party is losing 2.12% of the damage output in total.
So we take the 12.1% increase from Amp, subtract the 2.1% from Veno halting DPS, and we get a 10% increase in overall damage output.
Ok so the Party is performing at 110% instead of 100%. If a boss would take 3 minutes to go down, it will instead 2:43 to go down, thats a 17 second savings. And thats your average BH or Frost boss.
Um.... whoopie?
Maybe for a long long boss like a 15 minute boss you might say there's something to it, but even at a 15 minute boss, its reduces to 13:48, or a 1 minute & 12 seconds savings in time. Are you REALLY in that much of a rush to need that 1 minute scraped off your total time?
I used to Amp all the time, and then occasionally got lazy, and started to realize, there really wasnt any difference. Constantly swapping to fox & back is honestly a pain in the ****. But if there was a good time savings, it would be my duty. But i started to realize, there really wasnt much time savings, the differences is unnoticeable.
Most people want the Veno to Amp so they can stroke their e-peen with the increased numbers, but it really isnt anything of significance in overall performance for the team.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »Stuff
Your maths are false in scenarios where there's more then one venomancer.
For example, why don't you sit down and calculate the amount of damage increased and time saved in a squad of three venomancers if all were coordinating their Amps so that there is a near consta-amp on the boss.
Your maths only works on one scenario and that is the scenario when there is one veno in a squad. It looks compelling until you bother to realise that many squads comprise of at least two venos and I've seen squads of up to four venos. At this point the maths changes and, lo and behold, Amp becomes more useful. Arguing the other side is valiant but if you only look at one small aspect (which is all you've done) then it's still not the most impressive thing in the world, even with all the big numbers.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I'm the OP
I just wanna say thanks for all the great info and its restored my faith that good veno's do exist - and also give me tips on what to work towards myself.
Just as a sideline, I been doing bh59 for quite a few months now (levelled genies and skills before hitting 80) and the number of veno's that don't do any of the stuff you guys have mentioned, is extrordinary. I was doing it two days ago with 2 barbs and 2 veno's and I swear that at every mob they stood back waiting to see who would attack first!!! 20 times I must have said 'lets go' or 'c'mon someone attack the buggers." I got the distinct impression that all 4 of them had very little idea on what they should have been doing. I mean with a good veno and barb, usually the cleric has trouble keeping up with them killing and running, but man, that wasn't these guys. Anyway, tks again.....0 -
I will say one thing. Fortunately veno is a class that is pretty straightforward when it comes to realizing who's doing a good job and who isn't. Fails abound in all classes, except is easy for many DDs to "hide" in groups as few people take a close look at what they're doing and wether it's actually as effective as it should be. People tanking or clerics don't really get that benefit, it usually is pretty easy to tell when they fail. Also many DDs fail to learn to properly manage their damage output and usually blame tanks for failing to hold aggro when it was actually their mistake. Yes, the field is littered with fail venos but i doubt if there are any more than there are fails in other classes. After all is easy for a DD to pump their stats and gear a good wep and claim they're good at their work simply because they're able to achieve a high dps. Fail venos seem to simply stand out more.
I always amp and always add EP to make it more effective. I make sure to turn my pet to manual when luring and use Howl on bosses. I always spark clerics using BB and i never shy away from doing the more unpleasant jobs, like towning to escort the cleric after a wipe. But lately i've begun to wonder wether our insistence as venos to try to make ourselves useful isn't counterproductive. After all, other classes have better debuffs, sins can also pull, good barbs know how to manage their chi, etc.
I have seen fail herc'ed venos that are nothing more than simple pet clerics and also unherc'ed venos that really do nothing more than spam a scarab macro. I've also seen fail BMs that refuse to tank bosses their level should allow them to handle, clerics that will do nothing more than spam IH on the designated tank, DDs incapable of tanking that will let no one else hold aggro... It's a scary proposition to ask about builds in PUGs nowadays, almost always you will find AAs statting Dex for Crit or melees that will try to sell you on how some mag actually improves their work. Worse thing is they'll get easily offended if you even try to point out they may be doing something wrong. Now, i'm all for suporting experimental builds but you really need to learn the rules before you break them... BH has let loose hordes of undergeared, underskilled and unprepared players to coast along into high levels. Veno is not an exception, just easier to tell...0 -
If I'm being honest, I didn't really know about Amping until mid 30's, when I read about it in the forums, mainly because none of the venos I'd been squadding with used Amp, ever. Not sure about the very high levels, but at low to mid levels there are a lottttt of venos that don't bother to do more than venomous --> pet heal --> repeat. Doesn't help when they try to teach lower level venos how to play the class, either b:chuckle.
I was super nervous at my lower levels though, when first starting to run dungeons, since I knew I'd be expected to lure and such. It's really not bad once you get the hang of it -- practice on groups of mobs outside dungeons first, as those you can get away from if you mess up.
As someone else said though, Amp/purge as needed, know how to lure, keep pet heal up to date, and you'll be fine b:victory.0 -
To sum up what you can/should do in squads is:
- Have your Ironwood to the highest level possible so you can help the melee deal more damage with the Physical Defence Decrease it offers. Use it whenever you see the debuff missing from the boss. It's also one of the strongest Venomancer skills.
- Have your Amplified Damage to the highest level possible. Use it as often as possible on bosses or mini-bosses. It will help you even if you are soloing a boss and you have time to throw once between the heals.
- Once you get Lending Hand make sure you have chi most of the time to be ready to pass it to whoever needs it. Tank will need it most of the time but make sure to keep an eye on other players too. A Cleric will need it after a BB (Regeneration Aura aka Blue Bubble) or RB (Heaven's wrath aka Red Bubble) but mostly after BB. It is also important to try to time the chi giving correctly. Pass chi to the tank after it has used spark eruption for example (sending a spark right before he does it is useless). You'll eventually learn what skills eat chi and what skills don't eat chi.
- Have a fast or a ranged pet for luring and know how to lure. Squads may be impatient so you better be able to lure fast but also know how to do it. Personal recommendation: lure the melee mobs first, ranged ones will try to run away (to increase their distance) and might make your squad/pet run into other mobs. (Sometimes that happens so often in BH79 Stygean...)
- Know the strengths of your pet. If you are not sure that your pet can survive the mob don't try to fight it alone. It might die, you might die, might cause problems to squad. Also know how to control it properly (you can experiment with the commands). For example, if there are a lot of AOE-Magic mobs around you should have the pet on manual otherwise it will attack on its own if it's hit by AOE.
- Bramble the classes that need to be bramble'd. Barbarians and Blademaster. If someone like an Assasin or an Archer asks for it buff them but they have to take full responsibility. Don't buff squishy classes such as cleric, wizard etc.
- Use all of your DoT skills on bosses and make sure all the debuffs you have (including pet ones) are on the boss.
- If you have/can afford the level 79 skill Myriad Rainbow (fox form one preferred) buy it. It's very useful and it's instant.
- Save the cleric at all cost if something goes wrong in the squad. Sacrifice your pet or yourself to save time.
- If you are not sure about which mob/boss you have to lure just ask. communication is important in squads.
- If you accidentally stole aggro run close to the tank so he can grab aggro back from you, don't go too far away xD.
- After you get Bramble Hood, use it. It saves your life, really. Especially when luring a TT boss that can 1shot you.
Did I forget anything?[SIGPIC]http://i.imgur.com/MtwcqjL.png[/SIGPIC]
★ Venomancer videos - tinyurl.com/k6ppkw4 ★ Desdi - Demon ♪ Wyvelin - Sage ★0
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