BH Issue

truekossy

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

OMG he stole 10,000 COINS frome MEEEE!!11!! If he did that every day that would be 3,650,000 in a year!!! b:angry

I just noticed your sig needs to be updated. You're 102 now. ;(

Michael_Dark - Lost City

truekossy wrote: »

I just noticed your sig needs to be updated. You're 102 now. ;(

b:cry

Yeah, guess I'll have to....

Astrohawke - Lost City

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

MMORPGS like PWI r supposed to be enjoyed through lvls & not to be oracled or hypered or BHed all the way to the top "to enjoy PvP aspect of it"

Actually that is EXACTLY what MMOs are. It's all about getting to endgame and enjoying PvP. Everything in between is grinding for levels, farming for gear and is boring for most people. Maybe some people enjoy that sort of stuff but there's nothing stopping them from doing it now. If you enjoy grind, don't do BH for hyper FC, it's that simple.

I guess teh blane lies on all the higher level and experienced players who need to teach nub lvl 100's that they shouldn't shard their gear with evasion shards, tell BMs that Tiger Maw and Draw Blood are horrible, tell archers not to use stormrage and if they do to metal debuff it first, and if they don't have lvl 11 quickshot or sharptooth they shouldn't be spamming them, tell clerics not to air-to-ground heavies using plume shot or when they shouldn't rb or bb, tell barbs when they need to bite, roar, or when they need to be in tiger/human form, tell venos when to amp, purge, send sparks or to re-bramble people, tell sins to hold off a bit before the tank can get some hold over aggro instead of watching them die over and over, telling mages not to use water attacks on water mobs (or better yet water immune mobs)... I see so many lvl 100's do some of the most stupid things because hyper frost and BH's didn't make them a better player, it just make them used to doing BHs.

The thing is, I happen to know all of that stuff just by doing BHs and quests and I haven't even played most of those classes. All it takes is paying a bit of attention during BHs and reading guides on forums a bit and everyone can do that. I wouldn't have learnt any more than I know now by spending 9 more months grinding to 9x than I have spending 2 months doing BHs and hyper FC.

The only thing that's keeping this game alive right now is super fast leveling because it's one of the very few MMOs that have it. That and the fact that lots of money gets spent to powerlevel and then buy the gear you need at endgame. Go play any other MMO and you will be forced to grind to reach endgame. If PWI did that, there would be no reason to stay because why would anyone spend 8 hours a day grinding for a year to reach an endgame that is so unbalanced. If I had to grind, I'd rather grind on a game where things were actually fair.

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

I agree with the above. It's why Diablo II was so popular. The fun is not in the grind but in getting the items you want and join duel games. People can power level to 80-90 in about two days there and it was awesome!

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

I wouldn't have learnt any more than I know now by spending 9 more months grinding to 9x than I have spending 2 months doing BHs and hyper FC.

Well pick a time we can meet up on my alt out at west and you can show me how well you know your class. b:chuckle

The only thing that's keeping this game alive right now is super fast leveling because it's one of the very few MMOs that have it. That and the fact that lots of money gets spent to powerlevel and then buy the gear you need at endgame. Go play any other MMO and you will be forced to grind to reach endgame. If PWI did that, there would be no reason to stay because why would anyone spend 8 hours a day grinding for a year to reach an endgame that is so unbalanced. If I had to grind, I'd rather grind on a game where things were actually fair.

Umm... what? There are many MMOs with power leveling and exp items available through the cash shop. You say all that but it's not the truth. Read the forums from the time that BH and hyper Frost were introduced... read 6 months back from that point. There aren't any complaints about the rate of leveling. There's a thing called playing the game and having fun. During the course of that you'd end up leveling... but of course, people who do that actually learned how to make decent coin in-game and ended up not spending so much money on the game, so they changed it... race you to 100 and you level so fast you don't have time to have your gear prepared or farm it, you just cash shop it. Yeah, that makes the game a whole lot better.

You seem to forget, there is no 'game over' or cutscene in this game. If you want to play this as a speed level to 100 game that's fine, but I'm here just to enjoy it. It's just as much or even more fun 1-90 then it is at 100+. When you hit 100, all that is left is PvP and farming. And sitting around arch doing a lot of nothing. Running Nirvana 400-500 times... or more. Or 3-3. That's really it.

People are saying 'omg it's so repetitive, why shouldn't I level to 100 as fast as I can?'. Well, because the repetitiveness of 1-90 is a lot more varied and interesting than 90-100+. b:bye

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree with the above. It's why Diablo II was so popular. The fun is not in the grind but in getting the items you want and join duel games. People can power level to 80-90 in about two days there and it was awesome!

Diablo 2 had a great PvP system. It didn't have a cashshop. See any differences to this game?

Asperitas - Lost City

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Actually that is EXACTLY what MMOs are. It's all about getting to endgame and enjoying PvP. Everything in between is grinding for levels, farming for gear and is boring for most people. Maybe some people enjoy that sort of stuff but there's nothing stopping them from doing it now. If you enjoy grind, don't do BH for hyper FC, it's that simple.

Why don't we just start at level 100 then. Just start off in the PVP aspect. Get straight to the heart of what MMO's are "all about". Why all this beating around the bush **** with levelling and stuff? Right?

Dyscordian - Dreamweaver

Back when i 1st played pwi more than a year ago lvling was slow and tedious... personnally i hate pve its boring to me mind numbingly so i got around 4x then switched 2 another game where i could get to a competative level in a quicker amount of time and start pvping. Then i found out about the lvling speed increase here and came back im about twice the level i was and im enjoying the game alot more this time around.

With that being said during the time i wasnt playing here i was playing other games mainly private servers so my learning speed is pretty rapid i still figure out new tricks every few days but in general i have a firm grasp of my class

in my eyes anything that creates more noobs is a good thing.. more noobs=more suggestions to friends noobs rage quit decent people stay get stronger and best of all noobs die in pvp.

so in short bring on the levels it brings in all kinds of people noobs and pros little more trouble sum but take the time to weed out the trash..i use my friends list for good people and blacklist the bad for pking later

p/s i play a pve server cuz of rl friends

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver

The problem is just playing the game without cash shop, you wouldn't be able to level straight off BHs. Your skills and equipment would lag behind until the point in which BHs would be almost impossible to do. You NEED to quest and grind, if only to have coins for skills/eqiupment. In this time you learn more about your class and skills. No one is forcing you to BH. Problem is that people just don't give a damm, and swipe credit card, and BAM instant money (essentially). This aspect, people buying all their gear by using real money isn't helping. People who pour real money into the game can level faster than those who don't. Even without BH, people dumping money in the game can level 12x+ as fast as those who don't, just from grinding.

Astrohawke - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Umm... what? There are many MMOs with power leveling and exp items available through the cash shop. You say all that but it's not the truth. Read the forums from the time that BH and hyper Frost were introduced... read 6 months back from that point. There aren't any complaints about the rate of leveling. There's a thing called playing the game and having fun. During the course of that you'd end up leveling... but of course, people who do that actually learned how to make decent coin in-game and ended up not spending so much money on the game, so they changed it... race you to 100 and you level so fast you don't have time to have your gear prepared or farm it, you just cash shop it. Yeah, that makes the game a whole lot better.

There's powerleveling and exp items but I've never seen anything to the extent of 12x exp and an instance like FC that already provides a lot of exp. I know a lot of games where you can buy CS items that give 2x or 3x exp but even with those, you're still grinding a ton. When it takes 8 hours of grind to get 10% at later levels, 2x or 3x that still isn't much faster. Compare that to PWI where hyper FC at early 9x still gets you 20-30% for 2 hours work or less. Not to mention running an instance with a group of people you can talk with is a lot more fun than killing 1 type of mob non stop for hours. Name a game that even has half this kind of leveling speed because I've never heard of one in all the time I've been playing MMOs.

About making money and getting gears, you only really need money once you get to 99 or 100 anyway. Pre-90, mold equips are like a few hundred K a piece. TT90 is like 2-3mil a piece. All of which can be afforded quite easily without cash shopping. Then at 100, if you're not a cash shopper, you run 3-3 or nirvana to slowly farm your endgame gears while merchanting as well. That's how you do it. Grinding isn't going to get you the money you need for 99 gold or nirvana.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

You seem to forget, there is no 'game over' or cutscene in this game. If you want to play this as a speed level to 100 game that's fine, but I'm here just to enjoy it. It's just as much or even more fun 1-90 then it is at 100+. When you hit 100, all that is left is PvP and farming. And sitting around arch doing a lot of nothing. Running Nirvana 400-500 times... or more. Or 3-3. That's really it.

People are saying 'omg it's so repetitive, why shouldn't I level to 100 as fast as I can?'. Well, because the repetitiveness of 1-90 is a lot more varied and interesting than 90-100+. b:bye

You don't lose content at 100, you only gain more as you level. So at 100 you can do almost everything you do at 1-90. Then again, what are you actually doing at 1-90? Running lower level TTs instead of 3-3 and nirvana. FC which you can still do at 100. Rebirth which you can still do at 100. Quests that get you to kill x amount of mobs you can simulate by just going out and killing those mobs.

From personal experience, my day on PWI from 1-90 were doing BH, doing any available quests for that level, running world quest at 70+, the occasional TT if I could get enough people, the occasional FC at 80+ then check shops in arch, setup catshop and log off only to repeat it the next day. Any different to what it's like at 100? Hmm I wouldn't be rejected when I offer to help for FB89 or 99 because I'm not level 100. I also wouldn't get owned in PvP because the other person is 30 levels above me. Anything I'm missing? Oh right, no more getting RPKed by level 70s when I'm questing at hidden orchid. I'm going to miss that...

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Well pick a time we can meet up on my alt out at west and you can show me how well you know your class. b:chuckle

We can meet up in about 2 weeks if you really want to since I'm out of the country right now and can't log onto PWI. But I don't know what you want me to show you at west gate keeping in mind we're talking PvE.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

We can meet up in about 2 weeks if you really want to since I'm out of the country right now and can't log onto PWI. But I don't know what you want me to show you at west gate keeping in mind we're talking PvE.

That's why you keep talking about PvP.

Did you ever wonder that if you're going to keep babbling on about PvP and endgame that somebody in this thread is going to tell you to support your argument eventually? If not, you're more stupid then you like to make yourself appear.

Helpful hint: you weren't talking about PvE, you were constantly bragging that you learnt everything about this game in two months, and that all this game revolves around is to hitting high level and then using PvP, and that apparently BH teaches you everything you need to know about the game. That is exactly what every post of yours has pretty much ever said.

Ironic how when somebody tells you to prove your argument you seem to chicken out and claim you're talking about PvE as if you never mentioned endgame or PvP on this thread. Good job!

Thedarkrealm - Lost City

this is what I call "the idiot mafia", its the people that just dont want to learn their class or maybe they really are just to stupid to be playing in the first place idk, what I do know is I end up dead because they do something stupid... BH 29 no one gets theres 3bh in a set per day so its not easy getting 3 bh squads until they know it. 39 & 51 are horrible because its filled with these noobs that never seem to understand that there are 3 bh in 1 set just like in 29 so you will get those 3 bosses you say "I need" even if its not my or anyone elses bh1. BH 59 is the worst until bh100 and honestly its the same idiots from before so the BH's just keep stacking until you just would be better off finding an fb59 to get them all. Best thing you can do is just deal with it and lvl to 80 fast as you can because it does get better from bh69 to bh89 because no one wants to mess around when they have to pay for it, thats when people get serious about doing bh right. BH 100 sucks, theres ONLY 2bh a day but you almost never get a squad to do both and they stack like crazy.

Telarith - Sanctuary

I just ran into a 64 character with TT axes, who didn't know how to find me in TT instance when I was at pillar (didn't know what the blue glowy portal meant), didn't know broken drums dropped in 1-1, didn't know what 1-1 was or 2-3, and responded with "what?" when i said wrong TT mode.

It's partial right on bother sides, though more on michael's. BHes have raised the level of stupid from 60/70 to end game. Just as high levels running FBs for people and doing their factions bosses raised it from 19/29 to 60/70. Average level of venos knowing how to lure first week of server in 2008 was lvl 19. Average level barbs learned to tank in tiger form and use Flesh Ream to keep aggro was lvl 19. Average level DDs learned to control damage was 19, perfect in 29 when they learned to account for when barb's missed with Flesh Reams from time to time. (don't say FR is 100% hit or you're showing your newness)

People started getting bad a few weeks into the game, because the first gen started doing lower lvl FBs for rep and xp to break up grinding monotony. Also when I started referring to the gradual dumbing of players as the "stupid creep" which kept pace with the power creep.

60/70 was a good cut-off, since at 60 is the unofficial time when grinding took over for leveling. No more easy quest xp per lvl, now you'd get the majority of xp only from grinding. Many people complained, and ******* even more when clerics would not stop their grinding and res bad players 5 times a day. They would usually give up in the 60-70 range, which is why reaching 70 was seen as a big deal. It basically meant they weren't going to give up, and were worth helping build up from there.

Players were getting worse ever since 2 weeks into the early servers release. It just got bad with BH/oracle, and supremely bad with 3 BHs and hyper.

Astrohawke - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's why you keep talking about PvP.

Did you ever wonder that if you're going to keep babbling on about PvP and endgame that somebody in this thread is going to tell you to support your argument eventually? If not, you're more stupid then you like to make yourself appear.

Helpful hint: you weren't talking about PvE, you were constantly bragging that you learnt everything about this game in two months, and that all this game revolves around is to hitting high level and then using PvP, and that apparently BH teaches you everything you need to know about the game. That is exactly what every post of yours has pretty much ever said.

Ironic how when somebody tells you to prove your argument you seem to chicken out and claim you're talking about PvE as if you never mentioned endgame or PvP on this thread. Good job!

Are you stupid or just illiterate? This whole thread has been about PvE and learning your class so you're not failing in squads. The only time I even mentioned anything about PvP was to say that no matter what method you use to get to 100, it's won't affect how good you are at PvP because PvP comes with its own set of experiences. Where have I babbled on about PvP? I've maybe said 3 sentences about it this entire thread.

And I also never said BH teaches you everything about the game. Clearly you need more reading comprehension skills. I'll summarize what i've be "babbling on" about this entire time in point form for you so maybe you have an easier time of understanding it and maybe I can stop repeating myself over and over to clearly stupid people.

1. Most of the gameplay in PWI is squad based, instance based and repetivive. Whether you're doing your FB, farming gear in TT + nirvana or leveling up in BH, it's all the same concept with only slight variations.

2. There's only so much you need to learn about a class (in PvE if you still don't understand and need me to actually say it for you). For instance, barbs need to learn to poke all the mobs they are tanking and flesh ream on the boss. Cleric needs to ironheart the barb and use purify if the boss debuffs. Veno needs to amp, purge and give barb chi. DD need to control aggro. There are other things unique to every class but the stuff you need to learn can probably be counted on 1 hand.

3. You can pick up all you need to learn (in PvE) by doing BHs as they are now, by questing and by reading the forums. With what you've learnt, you can successfully do all the stuff mentioned in point 1 and therefore have the ability to reach 100 and farm your gears.

4. Removing BHs so people have to grind or reducing exp so people have to do the same BH more times will not help you learn anything more than what can be learnt now.

5. Ultimately it doesn't really matter how you managed to level to 100 or how fast you did it because most of what you've learnt in PvE does not apply to PvP. You gain PvP experience by PvPing, not by doing more BHs, not by doing rebirth, not by grinding to 100.

My argument has been that I've learnt enough about my character the way the game is now to not fail in squads I'm in despite leveling much faster than people back when the game started. Therefore, it is by no fault of the game that squads still fail. It's the person that's failing. I have mentioned PvP but never claimed I knew everything about it.

You need to stop trying to provoke people and come back after you develop reading comprehension skills and have something worthwhile to contribute. kthxbye.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

I just ran into a 64 character with TT axes, who didn't know how to find me in TT instance when I was at pillar (didn't know what the blue glowy portal meant), didn't know broken drums dropped in 1-1, didn't know what 1-1 was or 2-3, and responded with "what?" when i said wrong TT mode.

Lol... So a 64 char didn't know anything & probly never been in a TT (which generally start at 60lvl)...? You serious...? Maybe he idk... bought them in a kitty shop? TT low lvl axes cost a few hundreds.... not exactly hard to grind...

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

When it takes 8 hours of grind to get 10% at later levels, 2x or 3x that still isn't much faster. Compare that to PWI where hyper FC at early 9x still gets you 20-30% for 2 hours work or less. Not to mention running an instance with a group of people you can talk with is a lot more fun than killing 1 type of mob non stop for hours.

About making money and getting gears, you only really need money once you get to 99 or 100 anyway. Pre-90, mold equips are like a few hundred K a piece. TT90 is like 2-3mil a piece. All of which can be afforded quite easily without cash shopping. Then at 100, if you're not a cash shopper, you run 3-3 or nirvana to slowly farm your endgame gears while merchanting as well. That's how you do it. Grinding isn't going to get you the money you need for 99 gold or nirvana.

You're going to need 15-20m to max all your important skills to lvl 10. To get to lvl 11, you'll need 1-2m coin and spirit, plus the skill book for each skill. Full set of 90 or 99 gear is pretty cheap compared to how much you'll need to spend on refines. Yes, you can merchant, farm coin or cash shop to get it all.

I also wouldn't get owned in PvP because the other person is 30 levels above me. Anything I'm missing? Oh right, no more getting RPKed by level 70s when I'm questing at hidden orchid. I'm going to miss that...

lol... think what you will. When you get to 100 you'll see what most other people at this level are really doing.

What you're describing is a lot like a teenager saying they wish they were an adult...

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

blah blah

i dunno what im talking about

blah blah

and i always thought that in pvp people do pretty same stuff that in pve: clerics heal, DD pew pew, amp and stun, barbs tank..

just everything is more rapid so ppl need to know their class really good- combine mutliple skills, develop tactics, adapt to similar situatons but with smarter opponents..


so i thought that pve is training of ur skills for pvp, and this process take some time


but apparently- in your opinion- game looks different:

u just slip tru 100vls and learn some basics to not suck in bh and fc completely

as high level u 'start' game and pvp, and actually learn everything then... and just fail, fail, fail badly till rage quit because everybody laugh at you or just ignore in best case..

so,
gratz m8, you just thought up how to win the game b:victory

Astrohawke - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and i always thought that in pvp people do pretty same stuff that in pve: clerics heal, DD pew pew, amp and stun, barbs tank..

just everything is more rapid so ppl need to know their class really good- combine mutliple skills, develop tactics, adapt to similar situatons but with smarter opponents..


so i thought that pve is training of ur skills for pvp, and this process take some time


but apparently- in your opinion- game looks different:

u just slip tru 100vls and learn some basics to not suck in bh and fc completely

as high level u 'start' game and pvp, and actually learn everything then... and just fail, fail, fail badly till rage quit because everybody laugh at you or just ignore in best case..

so,
gratz m8, you just thought up how to win the game b:victory

I don't want to start a whole new thing about PvP but even I know PvE strategies and PvP strategies are completely different and I'm pretty carebear.

You must be crazy if you think barbs tank the same way in PvE as in PvP or that DDs use the same skills.

Take my sin for example. In PvE, I do 3 things most of the time. Use rib strike to slow attack speed, use subsea strike to amp damage and try to not steal aggro in the meantime. I do none of those things in PvP (except the occasional rib strike on BMs and sins). Instead, I'm using silences, stuns, immobilizes, sparking and whatnot. Half the battle in PvP is about surviving. Something I don't have to worry about in PvE because the barb is tanking everything. See the difference?

Do you think if you spent a year doing PvE you're suddenly going to become this PvP pro and no one will laugh at you? Tell me who's going to be better at PvP. Someone who spent a year grinding to 100 or someone who spent 3 months getting to 100 and the remaining 9 months doing PvP?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Do you think if you spent a year doing PvE you're suddenly going to become this PvP pro and no one will laugh at you? Tell me who's going to be better at PvP. Someone who spent a year grinding to 100 or someone who spent 3 months getting to 100 and the remaining 9 months doing PvP?

You're kinda looking at that wrong. Most likely the person who grinded to lvl 100 has had PvP experience throughout the time on the server. It's a PvP server, so open map PvP is fair game. So you're both at 100, he has a year invested into the game, you have 3 months invested into the game. Who would be better at PvP? Most likely the person who spent more time on the game.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

I don't want to start a whole new thing about PvP but even I know PvE strategies and PvP strategies are completely different and I'm pretty carebear.

You must be crazy if you think barbs tank the same way in PvE as in PvP or that DDs use the same skills.

Take my sin for example. In PvE, I do 3 things most of the time. Use rib strike to slow attack speed, use subsea strike to amp damage and try to not steal aggro in the meantime. I do none of those things in PvP (except the occasional rib strike on BMs and sins). Instead, I'm using silences, stuns, immobilizes, sparking and whatnot. Half the battle in PvP is about surviving. Something I don't have to worry about in PvE because the barb is tanking everything. See the difference?

Do you think if you spent a year doing PvE you're suddenly going to become this PvP pro and no one will laugh at you? Tell me who's going to be better at PvP. Someone who spent a year grinding to 100 or someone who spent 3 months getting to 100 and the remaining 9 months doing PvP?

i even dont have to argue with you. You perfectly showed difference between me and you, older and new player.
Even in stupid PvE i use all my skills, including seals, aoes + genie skills and various apo while you do '3 things'.
im just cleric but i dd, tank when need and also control crowd (imagine with my crappy seals)- and which is more important- im able to cooperate with other ppl and help them to do their job best, since i know their skills and what they are able to do.

you get that from experience, dozens of runs with different people and classes - not from guide on forums and 5 wined bhs lol

i dunno how u play. i never meet you but im pretty sure that ur just another 'bat put on follow'.
i dont mind those in bh very much, i just rez them more often than other players.. but i dont want to do anything else with guys like you.. sry
guys like u arent usually much help and slow down squad


and i never sed you going to be pro in pvp from playing pve lol.

i told that you need to learn some basics somewhere: like your skills, survivality and team play (which prolly u dont know' too well)

if that dont apply to pvp then i dunno what pvp is about. i guess that faction leaders just play poker on tws


oh well, it s your game. you can play it how you want. Hyper to 100lvl, merchant your gear, join big faction and learn all basic stuff in 5min tws with 60lvl ppl factions.

or you gonna join normal TW and announce to team-mates that ur clueless atm but u gonna be pro in 2 months and few guides you read in forums?..