How to breed high lvl semi professionals:

Cervantia - Sanctuary

Hello Sanctuary b:dirty

Errr yes you might wonder what this is about and I'm telling you I figured out a homemade reason for noobishness on our wonderful server.

Let's start at the beginning: In the beginning god created heaven, earth and Sanctuary... stop that was too far back to the beginning... okay in August 09 the devs created aniversary packs and at some point they also created bounty hunts, a new fcc as well as hyper XP stones. The result of that was that more and more people complain about lvl 9x-10x people who obviously leveled very fast and forgot to learn how to play their class in the progress.

That was old, most of you know it, there is no point in making a forum thread just for that... so heeeeere comes the new fact: Don't you dare blaming only the devs for those poorly educated people - also blame yourself! That's right the Sanctuary community is to blame because you guys make it way to easy to slip through the levels without ever having to work yourself.
Background story is the following: I've been trying to get a bh39 on my veno now for about five days, it is the last one befor I level up to 60 and proceed to bh51. Now the problem is not that there were no bhs, the problem is no one wants to play with me on the bh level! For five days now in every bh39 squad there is a high level player who drags the people through and I don't want that. Furthermore people moan at me to invite a high level so it goes faster. Okay I invite the desired person and then leave that's the deal.I mean it is a great thing to be helpful, yes. But imo you can also be overdoing it! No one needs a lvl 9x to drag you through bh 29-59 really no one. The only thing that happens is people become even lazier and don't buy their skills, don't upgrade their gear, don't practise their role in a squad, and end up expecting always others to solve their problems. This is very contraproductive if you are fed up with high lvl noobs, again: You breed them yourself!

My proposal was to let people do more on their own. Let them gather the experiences we had when we were new... let them fail sometimes so they can improve from the inside or give tips without owning their bosses. Hell we had no high levels to do our fb69 too and made it without bigger losses with not well geared lvl 7x squads...
If you really want to be helpfull there is a lot of stuff where people really could use a hand more often, like for example the neverending chrono quest instance visits and past bosses, but strangely all I hear there is people moaning about never getting help. A bad allocation of help indeed.

Anything else? Ah yes Sanc is the best server on the world but sometimes people should really use their brains befor complaining about self made problems... leave teh nuhps alone plz (be tutor, not a blockade for people when it comes to learning the game/a class).

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Cervantia - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hello Sanctuary b:dirty

Errr yes you might wonder what this is about and I'm telling you I figured out a homemade reason for noobishness on our wonderful server.

Let's start at the beginning: In the beginning god created heaven, earth and Sanctuary... stop that was too far back to the beginning... okay in August 09 the devs created aniversary packs and at some point they also created bounty hunts, a new fcc as well as hyper XP stones. The result of that was that more and more people complain about lvl 9x-10x people who obviously leveled very fast and forgot to learn how to play their class in the progress.

That was old, most of you know it, there is no point in making a forum thread just for that... so heeeeere comes the new fact: Don't you dare blaming only the devs for those poorly educated people - also blame yourself! That's right the Sanctuary community is to blame because you guys make it way to easy to slip through the levels without ever having to work yourself.
Background story is the following: I've been trying to get a bh39 on my veno now for about five days, it is the last one befor I level up to 60 and proceed to bh51. Now the problem is not that there were no bhs, the problem is no one wants to play with me on the bh level! For five days now in every bh39 squad there is a high level player who drags the people through and I don't want that. Furthermore people moan at me to invite a high level so it goes faster. Okay I invite the desired person and then leave that's the deal.I mean it is a great thing to be helpful, yes. But imo you can also be overdoing it! No one needs a lvl 9x to drag you through bh 29-59 really no one. The only thing that happens is people become even lazier and don't buy their skills, don't upgrade their gear, don't practise their role in a squad, and end up expecting always others to solve their problems. This is very contraproductive if you are fed up with high lvl noobs, again: You breed them yourself!

My proposal was to let people do more on their own. Let them gather the experiences we had when we were new... let them fail sometimes so they can improve from the inside or give tips without owning their bosses. Hell we had no high levels to do our fb69 too and made it without bigger losses with not well geared lvl 7x squads...
If you really want to be helpfull there is a lot of stuff where people really could use a hand more often, like for example the neverending chrono quest instance visits and past bosses, but strangely all I hear there is people moaning about never getting help. A bad allocation of help indeed.

Anything else? Ah yes Sanc is the best server on the world but sometimes people should really use their brains befor complaining about self made problems... leave teh nuhps alone plz (be tutor, not a blockade for people when it comes to learning the game/a class).

OMG another thread non-nef or TW related , I salute you .

But I warn you , you might be ignored if you don't say anything about how you hate nef,how nef doesn't like to post on forums (or are too stupid to defend themselves) ,regi are sanc's heroes , DOWN WITH THE RED BEAST NAO ! Doesn't matter if they're not #1 anymore ! Oh NEW FAC WITH EX nEFS ~ vindicate~ KEEL NAO ! etc etc in this thread since no1 cares about anything else .

And yes I totally agree with you ,every server has the ~ fast lvling noobs that can't play they're class ~ issue .

Also...sry about this but I saw something that I cannot overlook even if it was just a sarcastic comment :

Ah yes Sanc is the best server on the world

This is fake & **** .

Shandelzare - Sanctuary

How to breed high lvl semi-professionals?

Step 1: Take out the cash shop.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Step 2: Grind w/out dailies

Nadis - Sanctuary

Step 3: Burn all the packs.

Cervantia - Sanctuary

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also...sry about this but I saw something that I cannot overlook even if it was just a sarcastic comment: Ah yes Sanc is the best server on the world. This is fake & **** .

No it's not, the other servers are not better or something. I wouldn't want to change. And one can for sure say Sanctuary has gotten a lot better after you left it... or was it because instead of after... hmm nvm b:shutup


@taking cash-shop & packs out
Yes that's the devs part as I mentioned. However my post was to point out the other part of the problem: The stupid people who always drag the lazy oracle noobs through everything.

Reshanta - Sanctuary

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

This is fake & **** .

I don't agree with sanc being "best in the world" but it's a pretty good server and I wouldn't want to move to another.

PrettySammy - Sanctuary

Step 4 after burning all packs, make "Duke Shouts" into a visible NPC in the centre of archosaur, which whenever it start spouting red garbage of "x got y cos they spend to much friggin money", you can run up to it and start beating the daylights outta it for chi and to relieve stress.

as for the noobs here is an idea, reset every character on the server to level 1. No more noobs LOL

ps that last part is a joke!

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

If you have to grind your way up to level 100, then how are you a noob after that? Packs don't make noobs, BH along with hypers and oracles do.

Reshanta - Sanctuary

I grinded to 40 before using my first hyper. I went to 64 before using my first oracle; I used it to get 65.

If anything oracles make you a noob. BH should'nt.. it's group play..and it's in groups that you should be learning how to play your class as well as coordinate with others. So as to why there are all these BH horror stories, I don't know. It COULD be because of high levels helping, but only that can go so far. Though there is always the reluctant ones who do not wont to learn and play stupidly.

I say oracles make you a noob because you don't learn how to adapt. You face one monster and not a variety. You learn its pattern and you can best it. But what about other mobs? You'll be alienated and prone to mistakes. Things like this should be used in moderation. You're gimping yourself by soley depending on them.

Cavalieri - Sanctuary

This is exactly why I started to run my alt's BHs with random groups, instead of soloing it for them.

I have to say tho, even tho there are a lot of players that are eager to learn... there s also still a growing number of noobs that cant take anything for granted and are stubborn enough to do everything in their own way x.x

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Cervantia - Sanctuary wrote: »

No it's not, the other servers are not better or something. I wouldn't want to change. And one can for sure say Sanctuary has gotten a lot better after you left it... or was it because instead of after... hmm nvm b:shutup

Well old school players and ppl that can cash shop allot or endure lots of merch/farming like crazy to get geared up the server's standard Lost city > all even if it's not what it used to be , no server is . But it's by far the best server for more hardcore players to experience the best pvp and best done pve as well .


As for newer players or those looking for a fresh start as well as experience most of what the game has to offer ( yes TW and any other form of pvp included ) the new servers are better because you need much less time to catch up to the server's gear standard unlike older servers were ppl already have almost 2 years worth of farming/merching/cash shopping for gears over you and even lvls , as easy as they are to get they still take a some time for the average player .


You can't tell me this is wrong

Reshanta - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't agree with sanc being "best in the world" but it's a pretty good server and I wouldn't want to move to another.

I wouldn't have commented if she/he didn't say " best " even as sarcasm :P

Shandelzare - Sanctuary

Hey... guys... uhh...

Hate to break it to you guys but... grinding doesn't make you pro.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Shandelzare - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hey... guys... uhh...

Hate to break it to you guys but... grinding doesn't make you pro.

^(o.o)
Tis true.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

Grinding doesn't make you pro, and oracles don't make you noob. I use oracles to finish off a lvl when I'm lazy, and I grind when I feel like kicking some mobs' asses.

I don't see why everyone makes it seem like you either use oracles to lvl all the way from 1-70 and never do anything except those, or that you are always grinding on mobs and never ever do a bh or anything.

Imo, the people who are noobs are the people who are ignorant. Period.

Strife_son - Sanctuary

Think the discussion circulating grinding is that people actually "slaved" away for that level. As opposed to some of the other methods that people now use to level in game. True it doesn't make you a "pro" player, but it does familiarize yourself with your class in some ways ;o

Don't think speedy leveling is really the issue. Think about it this way, in a game where everyone enters as level 100, the only thing separating good from bad would be gear/skill.

Think the major lack of well experienced players comes from the absurd advantage cash shop gives players. Archers no longer need to play like archers, same with casting classes that can tank the damage from melee classes. Obviously this also works for melee classes that can charge in and tank the damage of a casting class without stunning/subduing them. Huge gripe is with charms, quite possibly the dumbest element of a game I have ever seen. Charm tanking an assailant... like, really? Where is the skill in that?

dagoddominator

I have to say, the cash shop is not the devil. People spending money on hypers and oracles is.

I Agree with the above statement that BH's help to cultivate squad tactics and teamwork, it's how i learned to be a proper nuke psy without stealing aggro. I think that, as with any game where the ceiling keeps rising, that certain routes need to be installed to speed alts through to higher levels; i'm sure you 2 year old players woul not like to grind a new toon from 1-9x while maintaining your faction duties, etc..( i'm sure many of you have jobs and lives to lead outside of the game as i do.)

in response to the OP, I TOTALLY AGREE that ultra high lvls should be LESS helpful to ppl going through BH's and whatnot; on more than one occasion my higher lvl friends would invite a 100 veno and then everyone stands there looking stupid while the cave is ***** by a lvl 100 herc! while i ultimately benefited from it, i gained no insight on how to play better and that made it a loss for me. I do not like having ppl grind my quests or even my FBs, i do my quests solo unless it's a boss and i need help and even then i try to create a squad closer to my level with the sole exception of a higher level cleric who can heal better.

My experience within my own faction is proof of that very thing, lvl 22's enter faction chat and beg for help grinding broken bow bluff; i usually ignore them or switch to a lower alt i have to help. I do notice certain classes(barbs) have trouble with magic mobs, moreso than psys do vs. water phys mobs; so i can understand the need to grind CERTAIN mobs when a mate is in need.

In general, i understand the frustration the older players go through watching people lvl to 80+ without learning anything. I also have less than a years experience in this game but consider myself pretty capable (even though i shy away from pvp-like thingsb:surrender) and a good squadmate; i do use the cash shop but i don't buy oracles, just packs so i can get stuff i either don't know how to grind for or don't have the time ( only online about 15 hours a week, which is IMHO faar less than the average player) to gather mats for. the cash shop is there not only to garner revenue, but to offer convenience for money; but people misuse it and want to power level so they can have cool stuff. If anything, as a few ppl have said over and over: get rid of hypers, shorten the periods where packs are sold (twice a year at random sounds good to me), kill the oracles, and my new suggestion is to attach more things that give an advantage to grinding-like quests (i see no prob making those crusade orders reward a piece of an item that you accumulate to receive another item with a fair advantage attached to it, that would put a great deal of grinding into power leveling no?). i also think the DQ items should have an alternate quest chain attached to it that offers different things as well, just so ppl have more to do with the same items, which in turn would encourage more mob grinding.

dagoddominator

Strife i have to say, your grudge with charms seems pretty one-sided. charms have a great deal of use outside of PvP situations, and this is a PVE server. many of the higher level instances almost require a charm to get through(so i'm told, and not by n00bs either.)

yes they do allow ppl to solo caves, but that actually supports creating a well-trained high lvl player as they are learning how to decrease the impact on their charms while grinding a cave full of elite mobs....

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

I do agree that people need to learn their classes instead of the training wheels PWI offers.
I prefer to know everything there is to know about my class, I experiment a lot with different skills on different mobs, and different combos, and see what works best for what. I know there are people who don't do that, and I don't get what's fun about it if you know nothing about your class.

As for the charms thing, I hate using them. People get annoyed if you're a cleric without an HP charm in FCC for example. I do like MP charms though, mostly because on another game I played, I was used to MP being auto regenerated, lol. I try to use pots as often as I can for both though.

Buuuut, there will always be something people will do to get ahead without working. Happens all the time irl.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

sry BH does help you grow, its true.

they just need to take off the whopping exp that comes with it. Thats the problem.

Strife_son - Sanctuary

You don't really need a charm to PvE >_>

dagoddominator

just as you said, you don't REALLY need one. depending on gearing and experience, it might take a great deal of pots to go through a FB above 59, or say TT~! but that gripe from high levels seems to come off as saying " if you have other responsibilities in life then you should be able to achieve what i can in this game." charms are an option, i've not used a single cash-shop charm so far, but as i get to TT and FCC levels i see the urge arising with or without adjusting my build to survive those things. i didnt intend to say they were required either, just an option and that doesn't create a problem to me. maybe to PvP players it does and to that i say the devs should enforce a DISABLE on charms while in PK mode; it would level out the playing field and create a "hard mode" so to speak for high level play.

Xoria - Sanctuary

I think the gripe with BHs is basically that with all the EXP they give, most people only do CS+ BH and MAYBE WQ. No quests. Those quests can teach you how to play a given class. It's sad to see people say "level 60 barb can't tank jewel/ krimson. NEED 90+ barb!" I've sat in starter areas for elves, or mid level areas and watched clerics (and even archers), get killed near sumor camp because they don't understand what kiting is. They get frustrated and stick to dailies only BECAUSE THEY CAN and the game allows it.

While BHs can also give that group cooperation, it still doesn't teach everything. It teaches some players that the BM will always stun to save your hide (if they do even stun, that is)! High levels jump into any TT they see (I'm guilty here as well) and it teaches the lower levels to rely on said higher levels.

In the end, it will be a no- win situation. We can complain and play the blame game, but things will not change.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Heh , I mostly just hate the safe instance lvling and hell I'm not even on a pvp server . They hate it even more as it kinda messes up a huge aspect of a pvp server a.k.a. the ~ fight for your lvls ~ thing :P

Ignathas - Sanctuary

well i reached 92 after a year of playing this game and 8 more lvls did with hypers in a few months.. and used 0 oracles but i am still in favor of fast lvling.. its ofc is good to school children who have loads of time for the game and can get way higher lvls and gear then any others, but what to do if i work 12 - 14 hours a day and on weekends i like to be with my gf and still want to have fun in this game (tw's most fun).. i think fast lvling at least give advantage to those who have no time, e.x. kids dont have money and grown ups dont have time, so it equals up :> i am mad for example taht others have insane gear can take 1st places in nien event, can shoot loads of ppl in tw without dying etc. and in general am mad cos other ppl have time for this game and i have almost no time - just for spamming forums while im at work :> so where is the bad thing if i hypered like 8lvls instead of wasting another half a year grinding? i think its all good thing, and if there are a lot of lvl 100 nubs - well thats their problem isnt it easier to kill them.. well my example maybe different cos i still did all my quests and kill all the mobs this game has >.> even killed half the clan then i shot harpy wraith.. but i still think its better to at least have an opportunity for others to keep up with those who no-life 24/7..
ofc those who gave insane effort to lvl and now watching nubs getting lvl 100 w.o effort were PWNed, myself included cos idk if there were hypers back then i was some 80+

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary

The big thing with all the fast exp/dailys/other **** we have now adays is people just dont experience the game like they used to. Sure, grinding dosent give you very much experience, or really make you a better player, but chances are the longer it takes you to level, the more stuff you will go do and the more you will learn as you level. No gurentees, its just in general your much more likely to be exposed to many more situations, thus allowing you to better adapt/play your class better. If you spend a year leveling, that means that you have probably done practically every instance in game many times, in addition to fought just about every kind of mob in existence, and seen many different situations, endless squad types etc. That is what people miss leveling up so fast now. Granted, there will always be people who have no idea what they are doing no matter how long they play, and people who can learn fast and become professionals in a month...but talking in general usually there is a much higher chance of being more skillful with more experience under your belt.

Anyway what is the rush to get to 100 anyway...clearly there is a massive amount of things to do then, more so than the other 99 levels combined lol...well according to alot of people anyway.

Minimus - Sanctuary

I doubt that by not helping lower levels they will try to improve more their skills etc. Hyper, bh and oracle make everyone level very fast. But that's not the only reason. Leveling was also harder in the past because a lot had to be discovered and not everyone knew what to do. Today you find a guide for everything.
I remember when I talked the first time about the cube (with a certain Samthesmile) and we came to the conclusion that the cube is too hard and nobody is doing it ("Instance must be bugged" b:chuckle) There was no cube of fate guide. The game needs more PvE content. Especially if leveling is so easy. That won't help to make players more skilled tho

Shandelzare - Sanctuary

It doesn't matter if you level fast or not. Speed isn't the matter. It's like saying there aren't any skilled people playing on private servers where it's pretty much instant 150. I believe even at Lvl 100, you can still learn your class. It's the same whether you learn at Lvl 100 or Lvl 50. (You can argue this but I really don't see how it would matter) The problem is that the cash shop has made the game so unbalanced that the terms "rich noob" and "good player" have become synonymous. If everyone was on fairly equal grounds, it would be easy to see which of them are noob and which are the better players. Not only this, if everyone was equal in terms of gear, the people who suck have no choice but to get better. Atm, there are two options: spend a ****load of cash for wtf gears or get better at the game. Many choose to spend a ****load of cash seeing as they are too lazy to learn their class.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Minimus - Sanctuary wrote: »

I remember when I talked the first time about the cube (with a certain Samthesmile) and we came to the conclusion that the cube is too hard and nobody is doing it ("Instance must be bugged" b:chuckle) There was no cube of fate guide.

lmao epic b:chuckle would probably think same

Quilue - Sanctuary

Strife_son - Sanctuary wrote: »

Think the discussion circulating grinding is that people actually "slaved" away for that level. As opposed to some of the other methods that people now use to level in game. True it doesn't make you a "pro" player, but it does familiarize yourself with your class in some ways ;o

Don't think speedy leveling is really the issue. Think about it this way, in a game where everyone enters as level 100, the only thing separating good from bad would be gear/skill.

Think the major lack of well experienced players comes from the absurd advantage cash shop gives players. Archers no longer need to play like archers, same with casting classes that can tank the damage from melee classes. Obviously this also works for melee classes that can charge in and tank the damage of a casting class without stunning/subduing them. Huge gripe is with charms, quite possibly the dumbest element of a game I have ever seen. Charm tanking an assailant... like, really? Where is the skill in that?

I don't think charms is the problem here...since without charms a lot of people would simply be two shot and the battle would end too quickly. This isn't exactly a game where your aim matters whether you hit or miss. Skill and timing is important in knowing how to break through a charm, and you can't really mindlessly charm tank someone who is good unless your gear is ridiculous which then isn't the charm's fault but cash shop's fault.

I think the problem comes from genies. There is no skill involved with clicking a genie skill. No channel time, no cast time, and you can use while stunned, sealed, anytime. The effects are stupid too...invincibility, max speed, no cast/chan time stun, massive AOE damage, wtf is all that ****?

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I don't think charms is the problem here...since without charms a lot of people would simply be two shot and the battle would end too quickly. This isn't exactly a game where your aim matters whether you hit or miss. Skill and timing is important in knowing how to break through a charm, and you can't really mindlessly charm tank someone who is good unless your gear is ridiculous which then isn't the charm's fault but cash shop's fault.

I think the problem comes from genies. There is no skill involved with clicking a genie skill. No channel time, no cast time, and you can use while stunned, sealed, anytime. The effects are stupid too...invincibility, max speed, no cast/chan time stun, massive AOE damage, wtf is all that ****?

Hmm I kinda disagree blonde-big-boobed-hamsta-loving-Qui . Choosing the skills on your genie, keeping track of energy cost , what skills you can combine to work best with each other is a very important factor in terms of genie use . Don't let the "subsea/HF > BR " noobs fool ya in thinking there's no skill involved .

If you recall how many noob BMs were in the game when thunderstorm was good .

I got nothing against using those skills depending on the situation since it's wise to take advantage of everything you can in order to succeed .
The only problem is that some ppl start to depend too much on them & thus forget about allot of important things , especially if it works allot of times .

But I don't mind them b:cute After watching some1 repeat same tactic over & over again you eventually find counters to it .

I'll let them do the same thing over & over again & fail while I'll keep doing THAT + more depending on what's needed .

Adapting is a wonderful thing b:victory I'm still a noob at some things in PWI like nirvana/tt3-2 and lunar as I never did those and who knows how many other things there are that can be done better and I just don't know it . But I'm not worried , I can adapt fast :P

Do the same ! xD

(BTW like the sig?: D )