Same sex rights
Comments
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you don't get it let me make it clear we don't feel like we have to stay in the closet as a hetero sexual couple maybe some programmers, devs, GM's, etc or PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR OUR MONEY!
start obeying consumer conducts and stop ignoring and annoying the small **** demographic as some people are reffering to us as!
Dear Mods,
I pray you leave this thread alive until Monday morning, so that Frankie can personally lay its sorry **** to rest. The level of obnoxiousness and hubris being displayed here deserves the finality of a GM's word, before it is condemned to that lonely black abyss of the Lower Depths.
b:thanks0 -
Hmmm.
First of all, this thread really belongs in Off Topic now, as it's clearly no longer a discussion about marriage in the context of the game. Actually, it probably belongs in the Lower Depths as a flamebait discussion about a political hotbutton. Heck, we've already introduced the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, so we may as well start talking about abortion and hit the trifecta.
Second, it's not necessarily the argument you're making (both sides). It's how you make the argument, and the forum (no pun intended) you choose to make it in that are the problem. The in-your-face attitude and threats are probably the least effective way that exists to get your point across, and the least likely to have *any* positive effect.
Might get you a ban, Amydidit, but I suspect it's the drama you crave rather than any actual results...0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »Hey how about reading through my posts instead of grabbing the last one and sounding like an idiot. I'm pro-**** rights. But thats my oppinion & my culture.
Do you support the war in Middle East? I'm going to take a guess and say you don't, due to that being popular oppinion in AMerica, especially within the same liberal side of the arguement that pro-**** rights circulates on. Ignore this if you don't.
Why is it people dont support the war? because we don't think we should be forcing our coulture on another culture. but but... they treat women so horribly giving them no rights at all. Acording then to your demands about discrimination we should be in the Middle East & demanding they give women full rights!
Again thats hypocrisy. The standpoint of marching into another country & demanding they change their ways to match your oppinion is wrong. The Arrogance of it is mind-boggling!
This game is developed in China. Its goes along side their moral belief structure. Your argument would hold water if it was developed in America, but it is not. It's time to stop being so self-righteous and see that.
I don't support the war cause people dieb:cryb:scorn...We are one, We are many, We are watching you...b:scorn0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »The problem is, you think that yours (and granted mine as well) oppinion on the subject is right. But what diety or supreme being gave you the all knowing power that assumes what you believe morally is what everyone should believe? Of course i think **** & lesbians should have these rights. But to assume that our morals should be spread across the world & everyone should believe them is what happened in the middle ages, with disastrous results. It had consequences when a country known as Germany believed this called World War II. It's having dire consequences in the middle east as we speak now.
Our morals & beliefs are just that, OURs. We have no right to push them on someone else.
b:surrender I made no mention of morals, dieties etc. This is not about morality, it is about Civil Rights and Equality. A minority group's entitlement to Civil Rights does not mean you have to agree with it. Why should you, as the majority reserve certain Civil Rights just for yourself?
I'm finding it hard to respond to your scatter-gun approach to this topic and going off on tangents which have very little relevance to draw any comparisons from, i.e. **** Germany, Middle East.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Axelire - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm finding it hard to respond to your scatter-gun approach to this topic and going off on tangents which have very little relevance to draw any comparisons from, i.e. **** Germany, Middle East.
The parallel is simple. Your viewpoint on civil right comes from your culture. A culture which does not agree with the cultural viewpoints of another. And trying to change a game developed in china following their culture & moral viewpoints is what america did in the middle east or the ****'s did in europe, trying to push their moral viewpoint on other parts of the world.
Remember you believe in civil rights for ****, and i agree with it. but why dont you believe in civil rights for say... people who want to marry animals? Dont they deserve the same civil rights? (Again thats not something i agree with, but it is a civil right that some people do want). Its comes down to what you believe is right & what your morals say to guide you, and what the culture you live in preaches as being correct.
The arguements arent scatter-gun, but your look at the situation is too narrow to see the whole of the situation. I'm drawing on parallels from the real world.0 -
GHealz - Archosaur wrote: »A question do u think a large percent of players are homo sexual?
so why should the GMs bow down to a lower percent of game players??
so then we should change all text to Spanish to cater to all the spanish ppl then??
this PROTEST wont get you anywhere
dont talk to me about percentage listen I see your logic however physiographics and demographic statistics are not what this come down to this isn't about marketing the game as much as its about making it a better place ^^0 -
dont talk to me about percentage listen I see your logic however physiographics and demographic statistics are not what this come down to this isn't about marketing the game as much as its about making it a better place ^^
It would not be a better place if you could hug your girlfriend in game.0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »The parallel is simple. Your viewpoint on civil right comes from your culture. A culture which does not agree with the cultural viewpoints of another. And trying to change a game developed in china following their culture & moral viewpoints is what america did in the middle east or the ****'s did in europe, trying to push their moral viewpoint on other parts of the world.
Remember you believe in civil rights for ****, and i agree with it. but why dont you believe in civil rights for say... people who want to marry animals? Dont they deserve the same civil rights? (Again thats not something i agree with, but it is a civil right that some people do want). Its comes down to what you believe is right & what your morals say to guide you, and what the culture you live in preaches as being correct.
The arguements arent scatter-gun, but your look at the situation is too narrow to see the whole of the situation. I'm drawing on parallels from the real world.
I like your big picture xP although I wish same sex rights wouldn't be compared to animal abuse and criminal rights as they have in the past and present! but if were talking about two people of the same sex with Consensual voiced opinions of wanting to be with each other thats way different then say a human and an animal0 -
this isn't about marketing the game as much as its about making it a better place ^^
For who? You? You think the devs (who don't read this forum anyway) should change a basic game mechanic (that coincidentally conforms to the culture shared by 20% of the world population) to satisfy YOUR desires? Nice.0 -
NightRage - Raging Tide wrote: »It would not be a better place if you could hug your girlfriend in game.
you don't know that acknowlegement is a powerful thing. People under estimate the power of ackowlegement into tolerence!0 -
Then make a character name of "Ilikewomen" that way we can all acknowledge that you're ****.0
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Its a game, why's it such a big deal that u cant carry ur girlfriends pixels in-game anyway? b:surrender0
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Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »The parallel is simple. Your viewpoint on civil right comes from your culture. A culture which does not agree with the cultural viewpoints of another. And trying to change a game developed in china following their culture & moral viewpoints is what america did in the middle east or the ****'s did in europe, trying to push their moral viewpoint on other parts of the world.
Remember you believe in civil rights for ****, and i agree with it. but why dont you believe in civil rights for say... people who want to marry animals? Dont they deserve the same civil rights? (Again thats not something i agree with, but it is a civil right that some people do want). Its comes down to what you believe is right & what your morals say to guide you.
The arguements arent scatter-gun, but your look at the situation is too narrow to see the whole of the situation. I'm drawing on parallels from the real world.
I could care less about the game mechanics pertaining to same-sex marriage. The reason I posted in the first place was to illustrate the hypocrisy of you post. You claim to be a supporter, yet you condemn those who make their voice heard. How do you suppose the LGBT communities around the world have gained the rights they currently hold? By sitting on their hands?
b:surrender I can't believe you just drew a parallel between homosexuality and beastiality.. . because we all know that an animal is a signatory to the social contract between itself and the state, and is able to consent [/sarcasm]. I believe in animals having rights, in fact, I took a class taught by Peter Sankoff who used to co-chair ARLAN; but I digress.
China is not backward, its citizens also have Civil Rights, having Civil Rights is not an exclusive phenomenon happening in America. It is just a matter of time, because there has already been changes, look them up if you want.
**** Germany was about power, control and resources, this idea of pushing for morality that you hold so tightly on was just a facade. Just like how Bush took to Iraq, everyone knows its for oil.
Middle East... Well where do we begin? Lets just simplify it to land, which is basically the root of the problem. Sure there is also religious differences, but thats just the fuel on the fire.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Axelire - Heavens Tear wrote: »I could care less about the game mechanics pertaining to same-sex marriage. The reason I posted in the first place was to illustrate the hypocrisy of you post. You claim to be a supporter, yet you condemn those who make their voice heard. How do you suppose the LGBT communities around the world have gained the rights they currently hold? By sitting on their hands?
b:surrender I can't believe you just drew a parallel between homosexuality and beastiality.. . because we all know that an animal is a signatory to the social contract between itself and the state, and is able to consent [/sarcasm]. I believe in animals having rights, in fact, I took a class taught by Peter Sankoff who used to co-chair ARLAN; but I digress.
China is not backward, its citizens also have Civil Rights, having Civil Rights is not an exclusive phenomenon happening in America. It is just a matter of time, because there has already been changes, look them up if you want.
**** Germany was about power, control and resources, this idea of pushing for morality that you hold so tightly on was just a facade. Just like how Bush took to Iraq, everyone knows its for oil.
Middle East... Well where do we begin? Lets just simplify it to land, which is basically the root of the problem. Sure there is also religious differences, but thats just the fuel on the fire.
My main point;
It's up to the Chinese to gain **** rights for their country. It's NOT UP TO YOU.
I condemn those speaking out to change the situation in another culture thats not theirs.
I already stated, several times, if it was an argument for a game made in this country & this culture then it would be valid.
You seem to constantly miss the main point that its NOT our place to push our beliefs on another country. Period!0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »My main point;
It's up to the Chinese to gain **** rights for their country. It's NOT YOURS
I condemn those speaking out to change the situation in another culture thats not theirs.
I already stated, several times, if it was an argument for this country & this culture then it would be valid.
You seem to constantly miss the main point that its NOT our place to push our beliefs on another country. Period!
I partly agree on your first point (yay, common ground after so many posts). No outsider has DIRECT influence to change Civil Rights in China, it is mainly up to the people. However, this does not mean that non-Chinese citizens cannot support their fellow comrades.
I think we've reached the end of our exchange. I'll just leave you with this piece of information. I am Chinese. b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
You are not suppose to be spreading your beliefs on this site -.-
definition of international: concerning or belonging to all or at least two or more nations; "international affairs"; "an international agreement"; "international waters
Also that is their culture
we aren't trying to be imperialists now are we? 0 -
I certainly sympathize with the cause of equal rights for ALL people, and do believe this should extend to such areas of life as online comunities. However we should take into acount the context of historical progress of civil rights in different media.
First. PW was first developed at a time when mainstream acceptance of same sex couples was only starting to gain momentum, it is easy to forget that primetime television in the west has only been openly suportive of this human rights issue for not even a devade now. Furthermore progress in China, where this game was and is developed, has been much slower, with many people still suffering rampant discrimination. This places the developer, the only party that could effectively realize such changes, in a rather delicate situation. Let's not forget censorship of videogames in China has gone to great extremes, and that MMOs in particular have become a focus of attention for the government.
Second. Controversy still remains surrounding subject matter in media traditionally thought to apeal to minors. Even in the US and other Western countries, many people may object to exposing even teenagers to such topics, and while i'll agree this to be the result of prejudice and insufficient education, it may be unreasonable to ask a company to take a stand against a large part of it's customer base. Overall we enjoy a great amount of freedom in this game, and while i certainly understand the importance of this issue, controversy is unlikely to effect chage and will only hurt PW and it's comunity.
Yes, the lack of an option for marriage amongst same sex couples is an unacceptable condition, but in truth this game is likely to have long become obsolete by the time conditions allow for this mistake to be corrected. I'm not saying it's unhealthy to raise the issue every now and then, but the LGBT comunity certainly faces greater challenges, and while videogames should be considered an area for inclussion, effective change should be sought first amongst developers working in countries whose laws prohibit discrimination. Once this step is made, we can have a genuine discussion about imports conforming to well established comunity values in much the same way Western games are often censored to conform to the standards of, let's be open about this, societies with a lesser devlopment of human rights.0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »the LGBT comunity certainly faces greater challenges...effective change should be sought first amongst developers working in countries whose laws prohibit discrimination. Once this step is made, we can have a genuine discussion about imports conforming to well established comunity values...
What Manray said there are bigger challenges than video games atm 0 -
Okay, this is a game people! let's not get into geo-political battles or flamewars about LGBT rights.
let me ask, how many people married on all severs are actually married irl? i would not say a terribly large amount. in fact, MOST(if not 99%) marriages in game are purely for lvling purposes. why are you starting multiple topics in the forums, which you understand is wrong, when your argument is sooo flawed to begin with.
young children play this game, teenagers play this game, and adults play this game. i'm sure there are some parents who actually monitor what their children play, and would find a problem with same-sex marriages (i am not one of these though) and other content closely related to sexual subjects. i believe the "embracing function" as it is, is pretty racy for a game that can be played by a 10-year old. aside from the basic knowledge that this game originates from China and the devs will not permit homosexual content, specifically inserting sexual content to the game would be insensitive(the nude-hacks i keep seeing are bad enough).
i will refrain from drawing conclusions on the LGBT community based on your "activism", we don't even have proof that you are a female to begin with! that being said, you could save yourself and everyone else a lot of time by taking many people's advice and making a male character and keeping your canoodling to yourself, like it should be. you do NOT have a god-given right to flaunt your sexual orientation to everyone on a GAME. this by no means is me being anti-**** either, many of my friends are and it changes nothing of our friendships.
i still dont understand why people need to bring so much lewdness into a game, let alone where younger children play. i can understand faction or squad interactions generating a fair bit of racy chatter, but if you are as thoughtful of EVERYONE'S rights as you say, then please keep your sexuality and your chosen crusade where they belong, in real life. i think what you really need is to find an adult themed mmorpg that will allow all these actions you are screaming about, and play that and leave the rest of us alone.
to the guy who likened the **** rights movement to the struggle of african americans, that was unneeded. regardless of how much **** follow the same road, it will never equal that struggle. prejudice is bad, but a natural function of the mind. only when prejudice leads to oppression, does it take on an evil character. **** are not being oppressed here, rights are not being taken away or denied. the simple fact that you can create a character of the opposite sex and get married(as was suggested before) should be the end of the argument.
wold you feel better if they changed it from "marriage" to "pregnancy"? they wold sell a "pregnancy pack" and give quests to find "celestial similac" and "pampers of admant". the "child would never be an ingame object, but some sort of baby-godling you have to nurture. but then again, i'm sure you would wanted same sex couples to have the right to procreate too, otherwise it's discrimination too right?
in general this topic is sooo boring, its a damned game and it's hard enough to find a non-FAIL squad for BH's that we shouldnt be bothered by lil activists trying to win brownie points by repeating moot points and shouting to the heavens about change. i just want my gold CHANGED into a asston of coins~!0 -
Among. All the strange things that happen in china... Same sex marrage is where they draw the line. Lol.I don't care how old or young you are, how small your **** is, how much of a nerd irl you are or how depressed you are that you never will get laid. There is no reason to act like an A-hole to everyone on an mmorpg. Its a shame that I have to take time out of my day to tell people "stop being an A-hole". So I end with this, if your acting like an A-hole, and some one tells you your being an A-hole chances are your being an A-hole.0
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Embracing and marriage constitute a very optional component in PWI. If the developers wanted to not implement it in the first place, I wonder what you would do.
You find there is something missing there, since girls cannot embrace other girls. But developers will not change it, since they got the last word. A petition will not change it. Ranting in the forums will do nothing much either. Protesting each day, making one million threads is useless. Heck, even going for a protesting initiative in front of the PWE's building in China won't do good.
I believe you could use that passion and determination when promoting LBGT matters in other places than in a MMO. There is much you could do when volunteering in associations fighting for those rights.Maintenance time. Please choose a line:
- When is it over? OMG I need my fix!! *super spazzing*
- Fix the damn bugs, dammit! I'm so angry! I'll quit!!
- New codes out there? I like free stuff~ *wink*
- When will we get new content? QQ
- Will we get sales? I got a ton of gold to spend.
- I'm bored, I'll create a useless thread to annoy Opkorock.
- *Incessant poking on Sweetiebot* Fun~0 -
Hello I want to keep this as brief as possible basicly I'm a Lesbien
who is an active follower of the LGBT and I am wondering why a woman
can't embrace a fellow woman on this share your thoughts.
Seeya
Get back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh0 -
RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »Get back to the kitchen and make me a sandwich!
A real smart intervention, buddy. Here is for you -> b:shutupMaintenance time. Please choose a line:
- When is it over? OMG I need my fix!! *super spazzing*
- Fix the damn bugs, dammit! I'm so angry! I'll quit!!
- New codes out there? I like free stuff~ *wink*
- When will we get new content? QQ
- Will we get sales? I got a ton of gold to spend.
- I'm bored, I'll create a useless thread to annoy Opkorock.
- *Incessant poking on Sweetiebot* Fun~0 -
Okay, my 25 oere (yes, I'm danish, and I know we just got rid of that coin)...
The game is based in China - China does not support homosexuality in marriages. The devs does not wish to change it now. It won't happen.
Should it happen anytime at all, it is NOT because more posts are being posted on this.
When people state different facts or implore you to use the search function, it is NOT discrimination!!! It is common sense - so get yourself together and stop throwing the "I have rights" label onto everyone who tries to help you understand why this thread is annoying. It is not a personal accuse - it is simply because there have been litterally hundreds of complaints about this, and nothing has happened from it.
As for the small discussion of cultural openness: Indeed, you should be careful when you try to interfere with other cultures, but life is ever changing, and the world has become international today, so you can't avoid it at some degree. The question remains - what degree?
And to OP and all other homo- or bisexual people: Most of us understand and have empathy on your cause, but this is a game where the devs have chosen something based off their culture. It is really that simple.
And please use the search function to avoid reposting this subject in the future... Everytime it is done, it just seems like a necro... (I know, I have to be better to use it too, but still want to say it).PWI will continue - in one way or the other. I'm just glad I found a balanced server now that I enjoy - naming is illegal, but PM's are welcome.
Only reason I log in still is also just to say hi to friends.
[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3036252001&dateline=1291402639[/SIGPIC]0 -
see my reply to your other pile of dingo kidneys (personal attack on a GM and threats of action against PWI lol)
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=9031842#post9031842
/thread[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There is no place in a perfect world for double entendre!0 -
Hmm - how to delete posts??? This one was never meant to be posted lol...PWI will continue - in one way or the other. I'm just glad I found a balanced server now that I enjoy - naming is illegal, but PM's are welcome.
Only reason I log in still is also just to say hi to friends.
[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3036252001&dateline=1291402639[/SIGPIC]0 -
Why does this topic always popup?
Can't people use the search function to see that it already have been discussed to death already?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks Brit for the sig b:laugh0 -
amydidit
If I thought you were truly sincere I might have more sympathy for your post. However I think you are an immature, most likely young, girl who is obsessed more with the attention you get from this kind of stunt.I don't care I want to be heard not to get a result! besides being heard is the most fun part of this!
Tolerance.....IMO the GLBT community is tolerated already. What people like you seem to crave is not tolerance but APPROVAL. Well you can't force somebody to approve of your lifestye. I actually support GLBT rights, but your groups insistance on approval (although you continue to call it tolerance) is starting to turn me and many of your supporters off.
Lastly....a game? This is where you want to "make your stand"? If your truly interested here are some Human rights organizations for the Chinese People, although I doubt you'll do anything about it becuase unless I miss my guess that's a little more work and a little to ananymous for you.
http://www.chinesehumanrightsreader.org/activst/activist.html[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OK... can't help but jump on board and echo the sensible ones
WHY DO YOU NEED TO BRING YOUR SEXUALITY INTO THE GAME?!?!
I'm a guy... I play a veno... It's not a comment on my real life sexuality! IT'S A GAME!!! If the "culture" of the game offends you too much... just don't play it!
OR
Play it for what it is. Enjoy it and don't get caught up trying to make the game comply to your real life issues... LEAVE REAL LIFE FOR REAL LIFE
There are so MANY aspects to the game that are fantasy... if you can enjoy the fantasy world they've created, I'll see you in game complete tolerance and acceptance (except for bad players!) 0 -
As if there were no other internet places to do that sort of things.
Why to bring them to the game too? If a game allows it, well, good [at least for the people who wants that]. If not, well, live with it. Don't try to change it just because of you. As if it were that important... =o_O=[insert sig here]0
![http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv137/Mallu755/xD.jpg[/SIGPIC]http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv137/Mallu755/xD.jpg](http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv137/Mallu755/xD.jpg[/SIGPIC]http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv137/Mallu755/xD.jpg){kind=link}
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