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All Path BM- Pure Blademaster

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  • Okeano - HarshlandsOkeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    "Things you added about attack increase calculation" (quoting is bugging on me)


    No no. Go read my post again. You can't directly apply the % increase to your attack speed. After you reread my post, here's the break down, step by step:

    1 - See your current attack speed (for example 2.0)
    2 - Convert that into interval between attack by taking the inverse (1/2.0 = 0.5)
    3 - See the % increase in attack speed (for example 25% from demon spark)
    4 - Note that "% increase in attack speed" actually means "% reduction in interval" ("25% increase" in 2.0 attacks per second is actually 25% reduction for your interval 0.5)
    5 - Apply that reduction to your current interval ( 0.5*0.75= 0.375)
    6 - Round the result to the nearest interval on the chart (0.375 is right in between 0.35 and 0.4 so in cases like this, it rounds to the smaller interval, 0.35)
    7 - Convert your new interval from reduction and rounding to attack speed by taking the inverse to get your new attack speed (1/0.35= 2.86)
    Disclaimer: This bad joke of a class known as Sin has long been retired.

    Kylin: thrashtalk everyone, win TWs, serious faction -Dralighte

    Merchanting is free if it's cold outside and your house is heated with electricity. -WarrenWolfy
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Believe thats exactly what I said, just restated.

    Since they're inverse numbers increasing one by xx% is the same as decreasing the other by 25% so it really doesn't matter where you start from, just depends if you want to use attacks per second, or second per attack.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Okeano - HarshlandsOkeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    You are right on that one, my bad. But there's something else I need to point out. Rounding interval first then convert to attack is not the same as rounding to the nearest attack speed, which you did in your example.

    In your example, both ways gave the same answer, but it won't always be the case. In my example, the attacks speed I get after reducing interval would be 1/0.375 = 2.67. That is closer to 2.5 than to 2.86, but 2.5 is not the correct speed. My BM has 2.0 based attack speed and sparks to 2.86. If you do it by rounding interval, 0.375 will round to 0.35. Converting that back to attack speed will be 2.86. To avoid confusion and error, it's best to always start out by converting into interval, do your calculation, round, then convert the final result back to attack speed.
    Disclaimer: This bad joke of a class known as Sin has long been retired.

    Kylin: thrashtalk everyone, win TWs, serious faction -Dralighte

    Merchanting is free if it's cold outside and your house is heated with electricity. -WarrenWolfy
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    Ah, Gotcha! Thanks.

    When I'm not in an FCC run I'll update it and add you to the Thanks list! b:victory
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • DemonicleBRE - Lost CityDemonicleBRE - Lost City Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited August 2010
    tyb:victoryb:victory
  • SwiftBlader - Raging TideSwiftBlader - Raging Tide Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    How could you afford the spirit to buy the skills for all weapons if you multipath? When should you cap vitality then?
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    How could you afford the spirit to buy the skills for all weapons if you multipath? When should you cap vitality then?

    I think I had enough spirit for maxing all my skills by 92, but not yet enough spirit for all my demon skills (1mil for 89 skills, 1.5mil for 92 skills, 2 mil for 99 skills). Trust me. End game you will have PLENTY of extra spirit. Even getting every skill I put about 20 mil spirit into making genies, then had to FCC a bit more farming spirit for my demon skills once I could afford the last few books. Point is, you will have all the spirit you need. If not, FCC gives you about 500k spirit per run and at level 100 they take 20-30 minutes.

    Capping Vitality: 3 strength 2 dex means add nothing to vitality, and honestly you won't need it. However, I restated about 40 vitality from strength and dex at level 95 and it really helped, but I knew by then what +stat gear I had or would have. Here is what I suggest: 1 vit every two levels until level 40. By then you can have a feel of what weapon you will be using more and can "sacrifice" the stat points needed from the other end. I used fists more so if I had added to vit I would have been sacrificing the strength to use axes at level and continued to add to dexterity to use current fists. The other reason I would have pulled from strength is I knew I'd be using level 70 calamity axes until at least level 90. If you're going to add to vit, plan ahead.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • ArchSaber - SanctuaryArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    [email protected]

    Not all skills are needed to max. Such as sword skills. Myriad Sword Stance can somewhat be useful at critical times, but you need the first 3 sword skills in order to learn level 1 myriad. The first 3 sword skills are terrible. As for fists, Cyclone heel and Drakes Breath Bash is god like but the first 2 skills are terribad to max. The only skill that is useless for pole is Piercing Winds, the rest are awesome. And all axe skills are 100% useful. The skills that I say are terrible/useless are optional to be maxed. Recommended not to be leveled until you have maxed all the needed skills.

    And you either don't add vit at all or start adding once you have met your endgame requirements.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • SwiftBlader - Raging TideSwiftBlader - Raging Tide Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Ok i understand you now
    So should your stats at end game look like this?
    http://pwcalc.com/489f600024d5f2dd

    Can i still tank if i go with the multipath build?
  • ArchSaber - SanctuaryArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Ok i understand you now
    So should your stats at end game look like this?
    http://pwcalc.com/489f600024d5f2dd

    Can i still tank if i go with the multipath build?

    Multipath tanks better then Axe build. Yah sounds weird but it's true. It's mostly because then cannot keep aggro from boss if they are only axe. Plus axe build only takes a bit less damage then a multipath. Axe build has sage spark to take 25% less damage, but that is nothing compared to a demon aps BM with the sin buff.

    And yes, the stats should kinda look like that.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Ok i understand you now
    So should your stats at end game look like this?
    http://pwcalc.com/489f600024d5f2dd

    Can i still tank if i go with the multipath build?

    Yah, pretty much. Dex is high (remember try to end on a multiple of 20) and you won't need that much dex when you have gear. I'd say cap dex at 200 or 220 to use TT70 bow. For most BMs that's about 175 dex. That frees up 20 dex points from the 3/2 build. If you are pve add them to strength, if you are pvp add them to vit. If you know your endgame axes will be Rank 9 that require 305 strength you can stop adding strength around 270, freeing up about 30 strength. Leave the strength in if you are pve, add to vitality if you are pvp.

    My dream endgame build would have:
    PvE: Base 3 vit, 3 mag, 342 str, 172 dex. With Equipment 159 Vit, 16 magic, 388 str, 200 dex
    PvP: Base 86 vit, 3 mag, 264 str, 172 dex. With Equipment 242 Vit, 16 magic, 305 str, 200 dex
    Stats with weapon unequiped.


    Yes, all path users can tank. First off, you hold aggro best with your damage output so the cleric can focus on. Second, even if you add 50 points to vitality that is only 650 more hp and about 200 more def. The increase in damage output from not adding to vitality, combined with bloodpaint, means you'll get alot more health back. The bigger problem is being 1 shot by bosses like Wurlord or Pole when debuffed. You'll be forced to compensate by learning to marrow appropriately and interupt boss channeling. Basically, you replace vitality with skill at playing your class. Also, BB becomes your friend for its damage reduction.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Hexalot - DreamweaverHexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Yah, pretty much. Dex is high (remember try to end on a multiple of 20) and you won't need that much dex when you have gear. I'd say cap dex at 200 or 220 to use TT70 bow. For most BMs that's about 175 dex. That frees up 20 dex points from the 3/2 build. If you are pve add them to strength, if you are pvp add them to vit. If you know your endgame axes will be Rank 9 that require 305 strength you can stop adding strength around 270, freeing up about 30 strength. Leave the strength in if you are pve, add to vitality if you are pvp.

    My dream endgame build would have:
    PvE: Base 3 vit, 3 mag, 342 str, 172 dex. With Equipment 159 Vit, 16 magic, 388 str, 200 dex
    PvP: Base 86 vit, 3 mag, 264 str, 172 dex. With Equipment 242 Vit, 16 magic, 305 str, 200 dex
    Stats with weapon unequiped.


    Yes, all path users can tank. First off, you hold aggro best with your damage output so the cleric can focus on. Second, even if you add 50 points to vitality that is only 650 more hp and about 200 more def. The increase in damage output from not adding to vitality, combined with bloodpaint, means you'll get alot more health back. The bigger problem is being 1 shot by bosses like Wurlord or Pole when debuffed. You'll be forced to compensate by learning to marrow appropriately and interupt boss channeling. Basically, you replace vitality with skill at playing your class. Also, BB becomes your friend for its damage reduction.

    You know, I've been following your guide build religiously and now that I'm in my 90s I've been forced to agree with others who see an inherent flaw in ignoring vitality all the way to end game... even if you just pve.

    (1) A pure strength/dex build with vit left at base means that essentially you are building a "squad mode" toon. In other words its great when you have cleric healing or bp from Sin but when it comes to soloing instances/quests yourself without help... while doable with a low vitality build... its that much harder than the BM with decent HP who can soak up way more damage while still being able to kill quickly which brings me to point number two...

    (2) I personally believe the advantages damage wise you gain from pumping strength waaay past gear requirements have been over exaggerated, in my opinion. In this game (and unlike a lot of mmo's out there), 98% of damage comes from the weapon rather than stats.

    In other words, it now seems to me now that it makes far more sense to make sure that you have adequate vitality to comfortably tank/solo whatever you wish. And any loss in damage you suffer from having to stat your strength/dex elsewhere, you can more than make up for it by getting the best weapon you can afford and then refining it to the hilt. b:sin

    To conclude... at end game you have two BMs... both with similar gear and weapon refined +10... but one with 1K more hp than the other. Now if one was (theoretically) forced to make a choice... which of the two BMs would most people rather own ?

    Anyway.. all of the above is just my two cents and other than the stat allocation quibble its a great guide.
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    You know, I've been following your guide build religiously and now that I'm in my 90s I've been forced to agree with others who see an inherent flaw in ignoring vitality all the way to end game... even if you just pve.

    (1) A pure strength/dex build with vit left at base means that essentially you are building a "squad mode" toon. In other words its great when you have cleric healing or bp from Sin but when it comes to soloing instances/quests yourself without help... while doable with a low vitality build... its that much harder than the BM with decent HP who can soak up way more damage while still being able to kill quickly which brings me to point number two...

    (2) I personally believe the advantages damage wise you gain from pumping strength waaay past gear requirements have been over exaggerated, in my opinion. In this game (and unlike a lot of mmo's out there), 98% of damage comes from the weapon rather than stats.

    In other words, it now seems to me now that it makes far more sense to make sure that you have adequate vitality to comfortably tank/solo whatever you wish. And any loss in damage you suffer from having to stat your strength/dex elsewhere, you can more than make up for it by getting the best weapon you can afford and then refining it to the hilt. b:sin

    To conclude... at end game you have two BMs... both with similar gear and weapon refined +10... but one with 1K more hp than the other. Now if one was (theoretically) forced to make a choice... which of the two BMs would most people rather own ?

    Anyway.. all of the above is just my two cents and other than the stat allocation quibble its a great guide.

    Actually, I agree with and have been meaning to reread and edit my guide suggesting, or just implying, that a little bit of vit may be a good thing.

    I still think for pve endgame (and I mean endgame: Defense levels, +8 or better gear, vit stones...) that 3 vit is fine because 13 hp per point makes less of a noticable difference at 15k hp. Then again, the damage difference between 380 str and 381 str isn't really noticeable either. At some theoretical point more hp just isn't needed and you have enough. Strength however doubles your benefits by adding to both pdef for reduce damage, and damage. I doubt there is ever a point too much dmg is a bad thing.

    But until you are endgame (and not just high level) I think vit is a good thing.

    My only hesitation is telling people "Vit is good for a bm. You should add 15-60 points" and then have people frustrated because they can't use their equipment for a couple levels. Part of the reason I've stalled on editing my guide is I want to suggest what levels to add vit and how much to add.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Staryu - DreamweaverStaryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Just a random thought, since they renamed claws/sharp edge to blade, wouldn't a pure blademaster only be using blades?
  • Joshcja - SanctuaryJoshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Just a random thought, since they renamed claws/sharp edge to blade, wouldn't a pure blademaster only be using blades?

    ...

    slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited April 2011
    Just a random thought, since they renamed claws/sharp edge to blade, wouldn't a pure blademaster only be using blades?


    -.-


    Lol. Yah, but they really didn't change the sword name away from blades so it would be claws and swords I guess.

    I called it "Pure Blademaster" for two reasons. Alot of people were calling themselves "Pure Axe BM" or "Pure Fist BM" or "Pure Vit BM." I thought this was very narrow of the class and this build uses every aspect of the class. So its Pure Blademaster because it allows use of "only" every Blademaster skill to its advantage.

    Also. The idea of 3 str and 2 dex used to mean no vit, or vit came later, or only if you pk. This was the pure damage build. All weapons and skill for survivability with no vitality cushion. Pure and undiluted with flimsy vitality points. Really, you can survive fine with pure damage and no vit but I'll admit that vit makes life easier.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • budi66budi66 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    What is better for all path bm? TT nirvana or Lunar nirvana? b:laugh

    In the name of chuck norris I resurrect this thread.
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    budi66 wrote: »
    What is better for all path bm? TT nirvana or Lunar nirvana? b:laugh

    In the name of chuck norris I resurrect this thread.

    Lol, nice hidden text. When Chuck Norris plays peekaboo with a baby, the baby disappears... forever.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1119361 This is a discussion I participated in from the Barb forums about Lunar Nirvana vs TT Nirvana, but here are the highlights.

    Lunar is tradable.
    TT is cheaper/easier to find pieces for.
    Lunar looks better.
    Lunar has about 133% more base defense.
    Lunar adds +hp, TT usually adds + vitality. The +hp mod on lunar gives more hp than
    the + vit mod on TT.
    TT 4% mods affect gear (other pieces, rings, ornies) but are not affected by buffs.
    Lunar does recieve bonuses from buffs.
    Having more pieces of TT means more % bonus, but will not catch up to Lunar's
    defense bonuses until about +12 refines (pdef rings, pdef belt, pdef neck),
    unbuffed. Buffed or below +12 refines, or using ornies that provide mdef when
    refined (CoA ring or cube neck for example) and the Lunar will always be better.
    TT is not affected by debuffs, Lunar is. When debuffed, TT may be better (possible
    bonus if spaming Frenzy skill).
    TT binds, which is a positive if you plan on PKing and binding, a negative if you are PvE and would like the option to resell.


    Overall impression: until very endgame Lunar is better, then if you have +12 refines on everything and 4 pieces of TT its hard to say which is better since its situational. However, most those situations still favor Lunar. Since most BMs use only 1 piece of Lunar (The pants. Yes alot use the helm too but it doesn't provide defense or a 4% bonus if TT) for interval they will not be stacking 4% bonuses, which also favors the Lunar.

    Bottom line, go lunar. TT is not endgame, just a shortcut.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • galisaagalisaa Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited August 2011
    STICKY! I had many questions but this answered them!
  • Darkswordma - ArchosaurDarkswordma - Archosaur Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    -.-


    Lol. Yah, but they really didn't change the sword name away from blades so it would be claws and swords I guess.

    I called it "Pure Blademaster" for two reasons. Alot of people were calling themselves "Pure Axe BM" or "Pure Fist BM" or "Pure Vit BM." I thought this was very narrow of the class and this build uses every aspect of the class. So its Pure Blademaster because it allows use of "only" every Blademaster skill to its advantage.

    Also. The idea of 3 str and 2 dex used to mean no vit, or vit came later, or only if you pk. This was the pure damage build. All weapons and skill for survivability with no vitality cushion. Pure and undiluted with flimsy vitality points. Really, you can survive fine with pure damage and no vit but I'll admit that vit makes life easier.

    about how many damage have i to deal at lvl 72
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    about how many damage have i to deal at lvl 72

    Hard to say, lol. Not much. It's been a long time since I was level 72 but I think its only 1-2k.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Nine_Lives - Raging TideNine_Lives - Raging Tide Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    sticky this please...i don't wan to let a guide like this sink again. Lyndura's is good but way off the current environment.
  • paradox666paradox666 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Actually, I agree with and have been meaning to reread and edit my guide suggesting, or just implying, that a little bit of vit may be a good thing.

    I still think for pve endgame (and I mean endgame: Defense levels, +8 or better gear, vit stones...) that 3 vit is fine because 13 hp per point makes less of a noticable difference at 15k hp. Then again, the damage difference between 380 str and 381 str isn't really noticeable either. At some theoretical point more hp just isn't needed and you have enough. Strength however doubles your benefits by adding to both pdef for reduce damage, and damage. I doubt there is ever a point too much dmg is a bad thing.

    But until you are endgame (and not just high level) I think vit is a good thing.

    My only hesitation is telling people "Vit is good for a bm. You should add 15-60 points" and then have people frustrated because they can't use their equipment for a couple levels. Part of the reason I've stalled on editing my guide is I want to suggest what levels to add vit and how much to add.

    I would think that the best time for those few extra points in vit would be from 20-40ish maybe 60 due to a lack of legendary weapons for all classes and its when most ppl are getting the hang of their class.
  • Nine_Lives - Raging TideNine_Lives - Raging Tide Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    bump of hope for getting this thread stickied soon
  • Sakubatou - SanctuarySakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    bump of hope for getting this thread stickied soon

    Lol, thanks. Glad it was bumped recently actually because I've been meaning to hunt it down and update it.
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • paradox666paradox666 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Lol, thanks. Glad it was bumped recently actually because I've been meaning to hunt it down and update it.

    honestly though why hasnt it been stickied......haters gona hate maybe?
  • Nine_Lives - Raging TideNine_Lives - Raging Tide Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Lol, thanks. Glad it was bumped recently actually because I've been meaning to hunt it down and update it.

    Nice.

    As the aps nerf is now on all aps toons (bm, barb, sin,archer and the occasional veno), I will not be surprised if some bm's try to go back to their roots again and try all path.
  • JuFranz - Raging TideJuFranz - Raging Tide Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    b:surrender GM pls sticky this thread...
    Previously: Level 100 BM and I still enjoy farming to upgrade my gears b:victory

    Now: At 101 still continue farming b:shutup
  • Nine_Lives - Raging TideNine_Lives - Raging Tide Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    b:surrender GM pls sticky this thread...

    b:chuckle and will keep bumping this till it gets stickied, Saku may lose it again in the huddleb:shocked

    Hello kabayanb:laugh
  • Nine_Lives - Raging TideNine_Lives - Raging Tide Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    b:avoid bump and go...still not yet stickied thoughb:surrender
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