'Saving' An instance

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Just so I understand:

Previously, people would hold an instance open, by parking an afk alt in there, and for long enough that even the boss respawns?

Because damn people, if so then that was an exploit and a half. And no wonder they've found a way to prevent it.

(And I reckon those doing it must have known it was an exploit because otherwise it would have been being discussed openly all along, rather than being hinted at only now it is fixed.)

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

I'm glad they fixed this exploit. Only thing is i think the timer is too short for some longer instances, like 3-2/3 & Lunar, or even Frost for players in the 75-80 range. The repop, if i recall, is like 20 hours, i'm not entirely sure but the devs would know. If thats the case, the timer shoulda been set to 12 hours or something (or better yet, why should bosses even repop in instances at all). Basically the fix timer is too short, people should never be placed in a race against the clock (unless thats the type of instance you wanted to create, which would be fine), but these instances were never meant to be a clock race.

Sashera - Sanctuary

perhaps it they made it 5 or 6 hours people would stop Q.Qing over it
long enough to be a bit relaxed about it but short enough that you cant save the instance no?

Cocobelle - Sanctuary

Now BH29 Qingzi is going to be a pain. b:chuckle

Teny - Heavens Tear

Uh,no. The majority are upset because storing instances is no longer possible, and that was the main reason for the change also.

I don't consider saving instances as an exploit, but without that option there it makes for certain mats to regain their value.

TigerLily - Lost City

Its not an exploit and it never was. If someone wanna have their computer on all night and day to leave a char in TT/Lunar/fb99 its a fair trade-of.

So many people are are utterly naive, they have no clue how many farmers are both wall and fly hacking instances in this version of the game. Closing down instances after 4 hours will increase that even more.

Closing down instances after 4 hours will punish legit players but wont affect the hackers. Farming gets harder for us, but just easy as usual for them. At least i got all my Lunar mats without having to pay 3 mil every time i open, before they implemented this ****.

ArchAngel - Dreamweaver

wont saving instances introduce more lag?

Athelwynn - Heavens Tear

ArchAngel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wont saving instances introduce more lag?

People used to be able to save instances but with the new 4 hour limit it's impossible for people to save instances which will cause TT99 gold mats and any other instance that you could save to rise drastically in price. Empire Sigh for example will probably go to 12m again.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Its not an exploit and it never was. If someone wanna have their computer on all night and day to leave a char in TT/Lunar/fb99 its a fair trade-of.

Thank you for confirming that this is what is being complained about.


And hell yes it's an exploit. Fixing it is not 'hurting normal players' - normal players enter the dungeon, kill everything, kill the bosses, exit and then go do something else (or that dungeon again)

It's fixing a scummy exploit and that's a good thing if you ask me.

Teny - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Thank you for confirming that this is what is being complained about.


And hell yes it's an exploit. Fixing it is not 'hurting normal players' - normal players enter the dungeon, kill everything, kill the bosses, exit and then go do something else (or that dungeon again)

It's fixing a scummy exploit and that's a good thing if you ask me.

Maybe if you have the time to waste.

Do you have the time to waste clearing out a 3-2 multiple times and doing all the bosses? If so good for you, I sure as hell don't.

I do have time to do several stored 3-2s though, same with any other instance.

And yeah there are some pretty crazy hacks going on in game, if you play long enough you'll notice it too.

Storing instances is fine if you want to use the resources, aka computers/electricity, to maintain them.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

Gosh... do I have time to waste to play a game? You know, I think that might be exactly what I'm wasting time on!

Sorry.

Yes, I do think some of the other exploits need fixing (luring through doors is something I get asked to do sometimes, for example, and that's a request that makes me leave squad) - and there's worse.

But they flattened one. And that's a good thing. Here's hoping they flatten more. (And hopefully in a way with less potential to accidentally catch people who just spend ages doing stuff)

Just because it's the one you're using doesn't stop it being a good thing.


And I say it again - the people who knew about this exploit knew it was an exploit, because otherwise it would have been talked about all over these forums.

Anyway. My suspicion confirmed, so thank you for that. And boo to you for exploiting. But hoorah, you can't do it any more.

azurluen

Whoa, didn't know about this [not high enough to do those instances yet]. So that's why all the QQ... =o_O=

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Instances have always supposed to have been run from start to finish, thats why killing certain bosses opens up other area's.
Saving instances was a perk nothing more, now they have removed that perk and they have to be done as intended. So Imo there is nothing to complain about ... you are only being asked to play the game how its supposed to be played

Athelwynn - Heavens Tear

Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Instances have always supposed to have been run from start to finish, thats why killing certain bosses opens up other area's.
Saving instances was a perk nothing more, now they have removed that perk and they have to be done as intended. So Imo there is nothing to complain about ... you are only being asked to play the game how its supposed to be played

If that's the case then have them remove the packs from the boutique and actually make people earn them via ingame means. Spending real life money is not earning gear but farming it regardless if it was a saved instance or not was still earning it cause you put the effort in rather than spend some insane amount of cash to acquire them. Games were meant to be played so we should have the game and not a cash shopper haven. b:bye

EDIT: People exploit the boutique so should that be removed aswell?

Conavar - Heavens Tear

Athelwynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If that's the case then have them remove the packs from the boutique and actually make people earn them via ingame

Yes they should and I would imagine most people would agree with you but that arguement has been flogged to death and we know it's never going to happen.
But having packs in the CS shouldnt mean the rest of the game is easy street, two wrongs dont make a right

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Umm, how exactly do you "exploit" the boutique? It is implemented by the will of Devs and it is meant to be used by the players. Saving instance was not.

If you don't have the time to clear out instances multiple times, suck it up? It's like spawn camping in a FPS because you don't want to take the time to run around, search, and kill the target. So you're just going to stand there and wait till he pops up and kill him for score because you don't have the time to run around all day.

Maruja - Heavens Tear

Instance saving is something many people do for various reasons. Ease of navigation, mob counts, time and most of all MONEY! Some things in PWI are very fair and reasonable to farm such as TT and FB's. Other things like OHT material and Lunar are much more expensive. With the growing use of hyper EXP and frost, RB has become nothing but a BH quest, making tome frags more expensive and difficult to get a hold of. The Addition of a 3million coin fee on lunar made it completely out of the question unless its 2x drops or a saved instance. Its just cheaper to buy mats or event gear at that rate, which is what the company wants us to do. BUY STUFF!!!

In my opinion the time limit is a good and bad thing. Good because it will help stabilize the price of TT mats and such, so the hard workers stopped being squeezed out of there money to compete with such a competitive cash shop market. Also good because it will reduce server lag from so many instances being held on extra computers connected to the server. Bad because its unnecessarily to short of a time limit and will again, like anni packs, ruin Lunar farming. I think they should make the time limit at least 6 hours for instances, also I think they should make lunar squad mode a subbed instance opened with essence of nature rather than coin. What is the use of wasting 3 million in coin on subbing an instance. That same 3 million coin could be used to buy something that costs GOLD and MAKES PWI MONEY!

Lets face it, NO ONE MAKES LUNAR WEAPONS OR RINGS! They simply BUY THEM FROM EVENT PACK ITEMS! This is not because lunar is expensive, it's because of the value of the TT Material - the Empire's Back Image, a mat that comes from a relatively inexpensive TT run. Back Images are very rare, very expensive to chip, and it takes 4 to make 1 weapon or lunar ornament. So farming lunar is mainly for getting armor since the other ornaments are more expensive to make and inferior to the event items such as warsong belts and cube necklaces. If essence of nature was used to open lunar it would stimulate the economy. People would buy tokens to make essences, which come from event packs, which MAKES PWI MONEY!!! The reduced cost of lunar would make people do more runs and increase token sales a little, and no one would give a hoot that they cant save their lag-causing, game-exploiting, electric-bill-bloating lunar run. And in general there will be MORE PEW PEW and LESS QQ. Since no one makes weapons or orns from this anymore its a Win-Win situation for PWI and the players / customers.

Any thoughs on this Players, Devs, GMs?

Athelwynn - Heavens Tear

Maruja - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Instance saving is something many people do for various reasons. Ease of navigation, mob counts, time and most of all MONEY! Some things in PWI are very fair and reasonable to farm such as TT and FB's. Other things like OHT material and Lunar are much more expensive. With the growing use of hyper EXP and frost, RB has become nothing but a BH quest, making tome frags more expensive and difficult to get a hold of. The Addition of a 3million coin fee on lunar made it completely out of the question unless its 2x drops or a saved instance. Its just cheaper to buy mats or event gear at that rate, which is what the company wants us to do. BUY STUFF!!!

In my opinion the time limit is a good and bad thing. Good because it will help stabilize the price of TT mats and such, so the hard workers stopped being squeezed out of there money to compete with such a competitive cash shop market. Also good because it will reduce server lag from so many instances being held on extra computers connected to the server. Bad because its unnecessarily to short of a time limit and will again, like anni packs, ruin Lunar farming. I think they should make the time limit at least 6 hours for instances, also I think they should make lunar squad mode a subbed instance opened with essence of nature rather than coin. What is the use of wasting 3 million in coin on subbing an instance. That same 3 million coin could be used to buy something that costs GOLD and MAKES PWI MONEY!

Lets face it, NO ONE MAKES LUNAR WEAPONS OR RINGS! They simply BUY THEM FROM EVENT PACK ITEMS! This is not because lunar is expensive, it's because of the value of the TT Material - the Empire's Back Image, a mat that comes from a relatively inexpensive TT run. Back Images are very rare, very expensive to chip, and it takes 4 to make 1 weapon or lunar ornament. So farming lunar is mainly for getting armor since the other ornaments are more expensive to make and inferior to the event items such as warsong belts and cube necklaces. If essence of nature was used to open lunar it would stimulate the economy. People would buy tokens to make essences, which come from event packs, which MAKES PWI MONEY!!! The reduced cost of lunar would make people do more runs and increase token sales a little, and no one would give a hoot that they cant save their lag-causing, game-exploiting, electric-bill-bloating lunar run. And in general there will be MORE PEW PEW and LESS QQ. Since no one makes weapons or orns from this anymore its a Win-Win situation for PWI and the players / customers.

Any thoughs on this Players, Devs, GMs?

Thank you for being considerate but I've been working on my Lunar armor for about 1 1/2 months because I don't have much time to play especially during the work week so yes I saved Lunar runs to help in farming for my gear. Not to make a profit off it. 3 million coins is too expensive per Lunar run especially if you have to pay the whole 3 million coins. If you look at it you're paying 21 million coins every 7 runs you do. 7 TT runs don't even cost half that regardless of what mode you choose so yes if we are going to have this 4 hour instance limit they need to reduce the cost to open instances like Lunar Glade. It's cheaper to chip the mats I need now than to actually farm for them (Including chip costs). b:angry

XylolyX - Heavens Tear

I don't think saving instances is bad at all. I certainly don't think it's an exploit worthy of elimination. Some people, myself included, don't spend ingame coin on gear-nor sell the mats as a profit base. I use the mats to make gear, or help farm for other's gear.

Either way, it's sad that this is going. it will make me consider farming for profit now.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

How you fly **** in tt o.o?


I don't care about them resetting dungeons, I just wish they would extend the time by a bit.

Maruja - Heavens Tear

I have no idea how you fly **** TT, sounds like something only doable through an external **** or by disabling or by passing PWI's security to alter the games general parameters. not that i claim to know anything on this subject at all nor care to. I once played on someones private server in which you could fly and ride mounts in instances. I was able to fly through lunar and solo all the bosses without paying any attention to the masses of mobs. Personally, as my primary classes are DD classes, I enjoy the mob fighting aspects of instances. I find that these kind of cheats, ****, exploits, etc.. bring only more monotony to an already monotonous enough activity such as instance farming/boss farming. Fighting mobs at times requires much more teamwork to do in a timely manner, than boss fighting. Especially when we get to round em up and nuke em!b:victory If you are so bored with PWI that you need to **** it to enjoy it i think you need a break or the GM's may give you a permanent one lol! b:laugh

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

I don't care about saving instances as it is not something I do. But I have spent more than four hours in FF and Lunar (and good luck to anyone running a full Rebirth) with squads that didn't really know what they were doing. We were learning, and there is no reason to be kicked out because of that.

Instances don't respawn for 20 hours or something. There is no reason they can't set the time limit to something more reasonable.

tweakz

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Umm, how exactly do you "exploit" the boutique? It is implemented by the will of Devs and it is meant to be used by the players. Saving instance was not.

Come down off that high horse. If the devs meant for us to not save instances: bosses and mobs wouldn't have been respawning in them.

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

ugh. how is standing in a dungeon an exploit? i dont understand this lol

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

standing in a dungeon for 20 hours so all the bosses respawn, and you can go strait to them with no hassle is an exploit, err, was an exploit, and now its gone, deal with it, sorry dema.

i will agree with everyone that says EXTEND THE TIME LIMIT TO 8 or 12 hours

empire sigh's going back up to 12M o,o neva.

Nakhimov - Lost City

The real question is, why were the devs too lazy or stupid to actually make it so that the bosses don't respawn?

Terrible programming, if I were their project lead I'd have sent them all home b:surrender

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

agree 4hrs is rly to short O.o try doing fcc with unexp,afking,replacing plp i done it once took up to 6hrs b:shocked (never doing it again .-.)

Vinat - Sanctuary

so bosses respawn but mobs dont? and how many hours does that take? 20 somebody said? seems like an awful waste of time to sit in a dungeon for 20 hours just to avoid paying 3 subs and killing at most 20 mobs.

Athelwynn - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

standing in a dungeon for 20 hours so all the bosses respawn, and you can go strait to them with no hassle is an exploit, err, was an exploit, and now its gone, deal with it, sorry dema.

i will agree with everyone that says EXTEND THE TIME LIMIT TO 8 or 12 hours

empire sigh's going back up to 12M o,o neva.

Okay my point is this and it's valid.

TT costs 129k to open TT 3-3 High setting @ 43k per sub with 3 subs (1.29m for 10 runs)
Lunar costs 3m to open (30m for 10 runs) <--- Going squad cost with this and 1 person could fork this out aswell.

Basically Lunar is 23x more expensive to open which isn't right in itself. They need to reduce the cost to open Lunar and I wouldn't have a problem with the no saving instances.

Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »

so bosses respawn but mobs dont? and how many hours does that take? 20 somebody said? seems like an awful waste of time to sit in a dungeon for 20 hours just to avoid paying 3 subs and killing at most 20 mobs.

Mobs would respawn every 16 hours and bosses would respawn every 20 hours. For Lunar you'd still have to kill a certain amount of mobs to get to the boss unless you clear the mobs every 16 hours. Don't have to worry about the kill quests in Lunar Glade but can't get away with not killing mobs to reach the boss. Only instance where you don't have to kill mobs to reach the boss would be Nirvana.

Also, People would just log another computer and put a char they designated as an instance holder in the instance. There was no modifying the game to do this either. Just log on another computer, leave the char inside til they respawn, and you'd have the instance. Wall hacks and the other issues should have been fixed before this respawn issue.

Quilue - Sanctuary

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary wrote: »

agree 4hrs is rly to short O.o try doing fcc with unexp,afking,replacing plp i done it once took up to 6hrs b:shocked (never doing it again .-.)

if a squad takes more than 4 hours due to afking i'm not sure i'd even want to be in that squad. it's not too short, frost takes less than 30min with a good squad, about 1hour 30 max for a squad that's learning. No way it gets to 4 hours.

Not even 3-3 takes 4 hours, and I've never gone with endgame claw users either. barb + cleric + DDs squad with like axe bms, and we finished in 2 including illusion lord.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't care about saving instances as it is not something I do. But I have spent more than four hours in FF and Lunar (and good luck to anyone running a full Rebirth) with squads that didn't really know what they were doing. We were learning, and there is no reason to be kicked out because of that.

Instances don't respawn for 20 hours or something. There is no reason they can't set the time limit to something more reasonable.

Anyone rebirth that don't have enough dd to finish in 4 hours... won't have enough dd to pass wave 9 anyways.