Fist Archers

ObscureXD - Sanctuary

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's a bunch of bull****.

For one, you have all squad buffs, some of them level 11. Also, Heaven's Wrath.

Not to mention that your build is practically that of a HA archer, since you, for some unknown reason, have enough STR for Nirvana HA leggings.

Also, the attack speed is still capped at 5.

You can't really call that an archer.

i know its a FIST archer lol

Apollonya - Dreamweaver

ObscureXD - Sanctuary wrote: »

i know its a FIST archer lol

But you completely ignored the archer part. No use in an archer with only normal attacks.

ObscureXD - Sanctuary

Apollonya - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But you completely ignored the archer part. No use in an archer with only normal attacks.

in the bag of this dream fist archer there is a lunar bow +12 b:victoryb:victory

Telarith - Sanctuary

ObscureXD - Sanctuary wrote: »

No need for bow if u have more than 5 attack speed ! b:chuckle

This post alone let's us BMs safely disavow him as being one of ours. I blame barb forum for this guy.

Olba - Sanctuary

ObscureXD - Sanctuary wrote: »

in the bag of this dream fist archer there is a lunar bow +12 b:victoryb:victory

Yeah because you added about 150 extra str just for damage and Nirvana HA pants and cannot use any decent bows, such as the Rank 8, which would be one of the best bows in the game. Or Nirvanas, for that matter.

And that still doesn't mean anything, since that build is still using level 10 or level 11 squad buffs and Heaven's Wrath. It's much less impressive once you take them out. Well, still maintains 5 aps and therefore epic****-level damage, but the stats drop a lot.

And yes, if you're going to add an extra 150 strength for damage, you would be better off making a fist Bm from the start. Here it is. You can observe the following: more damage, more life, more physical defense, more accuracy, more evasion, 3% less crit, 4% less mag def. And btw, also about 10% more DPS. So yes, you'd be better off making a fist BM.

ObscureXD - Sanctuary

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yeah because you added about 150 extra str just for damage and Nirvana HA pants and cannot use any decent bows, such as the Rank 8, which would be one of the best bows in the game. Or Nirvanas, for that matter.

And that still doesn't mean anything, since that build is still using level 10 or level 11 squad buffs and Heaven's Wrath. It's much less impressive once you take them out. Well, still maintains 5 aps and therefore epic****-level damage, but the stats drop a lot.

And yes, if you're going to add an extra 150 strength for damage, you would be better off making a fist Bm from the start. Here it is. You can observe the following: more damage, more life, more physical defense, more accuracy, more evasion, 3% less crit, 4% less mag def. And btw, also about 10% more DPS. So yes, you'd be better off making a fist BM.

I agree leave FIST to bms ^^

Admante - Dreamweaver

ObscureXD - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree leave FIST to bms ^^

Leave the extra str to Bms. We'll keep our dex, bows, and 5 aps. (SO CLOSE. SOMEONE FEED ME A SCROLL OF TOME)

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Admante - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Leave the extra str to Bms. We'll keep our dex, bows, and 5 aps. (SO CLOSE. SOMEONE FEED ME A SCROLL OF TOME)

Adamante? Why you need a scroll? Or you sage? I'm already 3.33/5 atk with demon spark. No nirvana pants or scroll yet. Rank 4 lol.

DrowElfQueen - Dreamweaver

ObscureXD - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree leave FISTing to DrowElfQueen ^^

Fixed b:laughb:cute

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel wrote:

For someone who advocates playing whatever build that is fun for the individual player, you are surprisingly hypocritical with regards to archers using fists.

Haha... well I was unaware I had a "rep" to uphold. XD

In the end, what I dislike is this whole "pro" notion... because depending on the class, it ranges from "grueling" to "laughably unrealistic" unless you plan to invest a frankly unhealthy amount of time / money into this game. -int Fist Archers just seem to be the "pro" thing right now... and while I do advocate whatever build is fun for people to use, there are limits. I wouldn't advocate a full-magic build because not being able to equip gear of your level usually detracts from one's game experience. With -int it's kind of the opposite. Why play a Fist Archer and not a -int BM? Because we have better access to -int with rank armor? It just reminds me of the whole flawed "I must use it because I can" argument.

Why would you roll an archer if you just wanted to play like a BM? I just don't see the appeal.

Of course, I just wish they'd drop the attacks/second cap to.... oh, maybe 3/second. That'd solve everything as far as I'm concerned. XD

Relakss - Harshlands wrote: »

small question you ever tried using fists on you archer?? otherwise don't QQ at all and just gtfob:bye.
myself using FC gold bow and fists atm works out really well for me funny to see a wiz coming close to me so i wont hit that hard just switch to fists.b:victory

I used fists before they were cool, man. XD I still advocate their use in low levels (in tandem with Winged Shell and metal skills). The Dark Flash I carry is for those situations and for MQ bosses. :P

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

In the end, what I dislike is this whole "pro" notion... because depending on the class, it ranges from "grueling" to "laughably unrealistic" unless you plan to invest a frankly unhealthy amount of time / money into this game.

I do not understand why you feel the need to condescendingly criticize a build that can be proven mathematically to deal higher amounts of damage for PvE purposes and has a functional use (solo tank bosses).

Furthermore, your entire argument seems to be based on the notion that an archer should not go with an -interval solely because it is, in your own eyes, an elite build. There are non-cash shop archers who have achieved 5 attacks / sec. Asterelle is one of them. It is a ambitious goal, yes, but not necessarily ridiculous, even for non-cash shoppers.

I suppose if you only aim for the tree tops instead of the stars, then that is your prerogative. I hope your lack of ambition does not spread to other budding archers.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

What's wrong with fist build? You dont have to be super geared to get 5.0, and you dont have to be super refined to do good damage, for nien event, I am using ff fist +6, and when I solo I get 17-18kpoints. b:sad Which I rarely do these days friends always want to team up with me b:cute luv u miuu miuu RAWR b:kiss

Argyle - Dreamweaver

PinkArrow - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would like that. Archers are meant to use bows/crossbows/slingshots. Barbs are meant to use axe/hammers. I think other classes using melee weapons is freaking bizarre.

aggree with this, but if they make them bm only should make a way to change bound fist/claw weapons into other weapons of equal strength without losing any refine or shards. and get some damn interval rings and stuff for archer only, magic classes can have channeling on basically everything, interval should be on more things.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I do not understand why you feel the need to condescendingly criticize a build that can be proven mathematically to deal higher amounts of damage for PvE purposes and has a functional use (solo tank bosses).

Furthermore, your entire argument seems to be based on the notion that an archer should not go with an -interval solely because it is, in your own eyes, an elite build. There are non-cash shop archers who have achieved 5 attacks / sec. Asterelle is one of them. It is a ambitious goal, yes, but not necessarily ridiculous, even for non-cash shoppers.

I suppose if you only aim for the tree tops instead of the stars, then that is your prerogative. I hope your lack of ambition does not spread to other budding archers.

I just think the whole aim of being "pro" or elite isn't, in and of itself, the goal of this game. Yet, reading some threads on these forums, you would get that impression.

To the devs' credit, PW is a game that is, for the most part, balanced against any "perfection." In one game I remember playing, class distinctions were irrelevant because you could beat down anything in it with certain weapons purchased from NPCs at a certain random chance, which could be equipped by all classes. In that game, having anything but that kind of playstyle got you laughed at... there were a million interesting, unique and good-looking weapons in it, 99% of which were rendered moot by this glaring oversight on the part of the devs. At least in PW, there's nothing - not even Warsoul - that would prepare you for anything the game can throw at you, at least not without good common sense and experience. I'm quite happy to be playing such a game, and I'm glad there are people who reach for the stars, as you put it.

My problem is when people start to think that's the only way to play this game. Hell, there are gamers out there who play games just to see pretty graphics or edgy content. I don't understand them myself, but I'm not going to pass judgment on them. By the same token, anyone who plays an MMO finds their own reasons for doing so and their own ways to have fun with it. Me, I have fun finding ways to be competent, in most standard situations (in this case, PvE), in ways that others would overlook. I have fun raising my alts instead of powerleveling my main all the time. I would have less fun if I made any attempt to try and match the "pros" for power, CS or no CS... and then even if I succeeded, I'd just be one more person trying to have fun by being the "best."

So for that reason, it'd bore me pretty much the same way to, say, try to raise money for Heaven Shatterer and -int gear and go full dex. But at least that's a strategy suitable for an archer. My problem with fist builds is that, with stacked -int, they're class-breaking. Again: why play a -int fist archer when you could just play a -int fist BM? The only reason I can see is that we have access to the one -int rank armor that BM can't get.

tl;dr: It's not about "lack of ambition," it's about getting what I want out of the game and not breaking my back over getting what I don't want out of it, but people tell me I should want. And I'm not the only one. Probably one of the few who frequent the forums, though. :P

Quilue - Sanctuary

^

because not everyone wants to reroll. The whole point of fist is so you can farm faster and gear yourself better, not so you can run around melee and stop being an archer. This is just other people's way of getting what they want. This is what I don't get about the BM argument, you really going to level a BM to 99, gear yourself up in TT99 for 5/s attack speed, just so you can farm for your archer?

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

I just think the whole aim of being "pro" or elite isn't, in and of itself, the goal of this game.

I goal of this game is w/e you make of it...
For some it's being pro & elite, having biggest e-peen, & killing most ppl, for others hanging with friends, passing some time & so on... There is NO 1 GOAL.


I love my fists, but I love my bow too... urgh sling... <.<
I don't want a bm.

Admante - Dreamweaver

I prefer using bow for the mobs scattered around TT. Since most die before one can hit it for the full 15 secs of spark, perma spark is difficult. Add in the fact that fists have almost no range.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

^

because not everyone wants to reroll. The whole point of fist is so you can farm faster and gear yourself better, not so you can run around melee and stop being an archer. This is just other people's way of getting what they want. This is what I don't get about the BM argument, you really going to level a BM to 99, gear yourself up in TT99 for 5/s attack speed, just so you can farm for your archer?

So wait... you're basically saying that the point of fist archers is "I'm only using fists to save myself time on bosses so that I can farm my endgame gear." Implying, what... that you'd go back to bow specialization once you have said gear? This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me... -interval gear isn't exactly cheap or easy to obtain, and the quintessential -int fist is Diecide, which is Lunar gold (although I suppose Gorenox Vanity would suffice, but either are fairly expensive weapons... ludicriously expensive in the case of the former). Between that and the reset notes to switch between a pure dex build and a fist build, it seems like quite a bit of coin/gold to throw at an allegedly-temporary fighting style. And if you could obtain the requisite -int gear and Diecide/Gorenox Vanity, why not just get the -int gear and Broad Land/Heaven Shatterer instead?

I'll admit I have little knowledge of the fist build, but... what kind of gear could you farm better with fists that you wouldn't already need to own first to use the fists "effectively?"

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote:

I goal of this game is w/e you make of it...
For some it's being pro & elite, having biggest e-peen, & killing most ppl, for others hanging with friends, passing some time & so on... There is NO 1 GOAL.

Hey, I completely agree with you there. Perhaps you missed my italicizing of "the." I was implying that too many people believe the pro/elite/e-peen etc. strategy is the only method of fun anyone could have in this game, which is simply not true. :P

For instance, my method of fun involves being competent and unique on a small budget, as well as following a style over substance mentality. The weapon I would desire most for endgame is a two-socket, self-made Burst of Vacuity (currently I've made just one BoV, with one socket). I would prefer TT90 Gold armor over TT99 Gold armor just because I like the design of it better, but I'm most likely just going to use the 90s mold armor set instead (minus the legs which are very hard to obtain). I put elemental shards in my armor because I like the visual style of it. If I somehow obtained a Heaven Shatterer, Diecide, or any kind of event cape/tome/armor, I would sell it and let someone else's lust for being "pro" finance my own goals. Oh... and I went sage, knowing full well the difference between the two. ;]

For all of the above, I'm written off as a "fail archer" and now "unambitious." Eh. Mostly, I just find it funny... that willingness some people have to pass off opinion as fact. There are all kinds of opinions out there... for the most part, I only try to play Devil's Advocate when one single opinion gets elevated to "dogma" status.

Call it a hobby. XD

Mosz - Heavens Tear

^^ this argument made my head hurt
most archers try to be powerful and have strong gear not be unique and well um..not very useful
also deicides come out cheaper to get 5.0 then gorenox
as an archer you should know, atk interval gear helps your bow DPS,.91-1.0 atk speed with a bow is common end game, thats well 40-50% more damage then your .67 atk speed

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^^ this argument made my head hurt
most archers try to be powerful and have strong gear not be unique and well um..not very useful
also deicides come out cheaper to get 5.0 then gorenox
as an archer you should know, atk interval gear helps your bow DPS,.91-1.0 atk speed with a bow is common end game, thats well 40-50% more damage then your .67 atk speed

I'm aware of all these things. I just don't care whether any of it applies to me or not. The fact that this "makes your head hurt" just proves my point, quite frankly. :P (That being, that there are plenty of play styles, yet a lot of forum-goers only acknowledge one of them)

Mosz - Heavens Tear

which is the point of this forum: to discuss useful strategies, not useless fringe stuff

Killahoe - Harshlands

you dont need to restat to use decides.

117 base str for warsoul

+6 str from warsoul

+7 str from band from heavens jail

+7 str from band from heavens jail

+7 str from lunar cape

+4 from cheap tome

this gives you 1 str over what you need - 148 str.

also decides can be sold after you dont need them anymore , so cost isnt realy an issue.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So wait... you're basically saying that the point of fist archers is "I'm only using fists to save myself time on bosses so that I can farm my endgame gear." Implying, what... that you'd go back to bow specialization once you have said gear? This doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me... -interval gear isn't exactly cheap or easy to obtain, and the quintessential -int fist is Diecide, which is Lunar gold (although I suppose Gorenox Vanity would suffice, but either are fairly expensive weapons... ludicriously expensive in the case of the former). Between that and the reset notes to switch between a pure dex build and a fist build, it seems like quite a bit of coin/gold to throw at an allegedly-temporary fighting style. And if you could obtain the requisite -int gear and Diecide/Gorenox Vanity, why not just get the -int gear and Broad Land/Heaven Shatterer instead?

I'll admit I have little knowledge of the fist build, but... what kind of gear could you farm better with fists that you wouldn't already need to own first to use the fists "effectively?"

Some people are not done when they have full TT99 and Heaven Shatterer, some people want +10 Nirvana, and expensive tomes or some ****. What makes you think just because archers have claws they can't use a bow? it's 146 str req for Deicide, even less for Gorenox. What are you talking about with reset notes?

Do you know that a good Nirvana squad full of claw users can complete it in less than 15min? or they can farm rings from CoA? That's some of the places where people make a lot of money. Where do you think people are coming up with all their Nirvana gear? They cash shopped it all?

Relakss - Harshlands

i'm a fist archer because i like the archer skills and the range of a bow but i also like to use my fists to make tt runs go faster or melee mobs.

and btw its really funny to pk a 9x barb with full tt90 gear sharded and refined with your fistsb:chuckle

fists/ claws is just personal don't go QQ bout people using them if they want to be a fist archer let them be.

As for the rest of my fellow fist archers... fists FTWb:victory XD

Man - Raging Tide

Several things.

1. 5 APS is very close to being a game breaker, especially now that its a mass trend. Imbalanced, and attack speed needs to be capped.

2. I heard someone saying how fist bms were more dmg.... Tell that to a barb with 4k elemental rez and 20k phs rez. Bms deal no ele dmg! So in this regard archers are more balanced with their fists.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Man - Raging Tide wrote: »

Several things.

1. 5 APS is very close to being a game breaker, especially now that its a mass trend. Imbalanced, and attack speed needs to be capped.

2. I heard someone saying how fist bms were more dmg.... Tell that to a barb with 4k elemental rez and 20k phs rez. Bms deal no ele dmg! So in this regard archers are more balanced with their fists.

fist ulti give fire damage addon lv100 give +100%[eq] fire addon [demon version 135%/heaven 100% and +3000fire dmg] + sage axe lv49 skill reduce the fire def/sage axe ulti do fire dmg 2 b:surrender

(in pk few bm use bramble rage after hf+gs and maybe combined with frenzy+pill)

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Man - Raging Tide wrote: »

Several things.

1. 5 APS is very close to being a game breaker, especially now that its a mass trend. Imbalanced, and attack speed needs to be capped.

2. I heard someone saying how fist bms were more dmg.... Tell that to a barb with 4k elemental rez and 20k phs rez. Bms deal no ele dmg! So in this regard archers are more balanced with their fists.

Hm.. strange my barb is 102 with decent gear... & surely not 20k phys res in human.... unles u manage to glitch & use claws in tiger form... but good luck breaking high lvl claws/fists....

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

which is the point of this forum: to discuss useful strategies, not useless fringe stuff

There's no universal definition of "useful" and "useless" - they're, by nature, opinionated terms. What's useful to me isn't necessarily useful to you, and vice versa.

And even if there were a universal definition of "useful," what if one simply cares about having fun in other ways? Is being "useful" the only way to have fun? Or is fun not the point of video games anymore? :P

Killahoe - Harshlands wrote: »

you dont need to restat to use decides.

117 base str for warsoul

+6 str from warsoul

+7 str from band from heavens jail

+7 str from band from heavens jail

+7 str from lunar cape

+4 from cheap tome

this gives you 1 str over what you need - 148 str.

also decides can be sold after you dont need them anymore , so cost isnt realy an issue.

1. Okay, I can stand corrected on the reset notes. But in general... before the whole fist craze, wasn't it popular to be full-dex? I distinctly remember someone (I think Devoted) ranting on and on about how you were a fail archer if you were able to equip Helm of Aqua Viciousness before 105. Wouldn't full-dex logic dictate that, if you had all those gears, you'd just keep your base str 31 points lower than necessary to equip your armor (level +4) so that you could channel all possible points into dex?

2. Are we really going to start using Warsouls in our strategies now? Just because one crazy person got one? XD

EDIT: Ah, you probably meant warsoul helm didn't ya. Okay nvm that then. XD But I still wonder about where the full-dex fad went. Does the whole archer board have fad amnesia?

I_Snipe - Lost City

I'm still a Pure Dex build archer [Base Str is staying at 100]. Yet I have enough Str from stat bonuses to equip Gorenox Vanity.

Egaenil - Heavens Tear

fist for pve ONLY i really dont see the problem with it.. i mean that's wat archer do anyway in tt/niv... normal hit.. spark.. normal hit spark normal hit. I dont understand why so many ppl against the idea of using fist.