squishy archers?

2»

Comments

  • PinkArrow - Heavens Tear
    PinkArrow - Heavens Tear Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    very good topic
  • Badazmofo - Dreamweaver
    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Archalt - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Sure, it can happen. But when the tank is dying, I just stop killing, so the boss runs after someone else, lol.

    ^ this will make ppl not want to squad with you as an archer you should know how to kite any and all mobs and bosses if the tank drops you grab aggro and kite the boss untill the tank is alive and fully buffed and ready to try again and never let the cleric take aggro over you the cleric can rez you but you cant rez the cleric ;P

    also archers were made to kite just look at some of your skills anti movement debuff skills and speed buffs (wings of protection, wings of grace and alacrity)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Alkaia - Harshlands
    Alkaia - Harshlands Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    ^ this will make ppl not want to squad with you as an archer you should know how to kite any and all mobs and bosses if the tank drops you grab aggro and kite the boss untill the tank is alive and fully buffed and ready to try again and never let the cleric take aggro over you the cleric can rez you but you cant rez the cleric ;P

    also archers were made to kite just look at some of your skills anti movement debuff skills and speed buffs (wings of protection, wings of grace and alacrity)

    Sorry but archers never meant to be those who take aggro if the tank die.
    Its either a BM or a Veno pet. Its true that usually if the tank dies the archer got aggro, but if he is not 10k hp archer, he shouldnt keep it.
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Alkaia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Sorry but archers never meant to be those who take aggro if the tank die.

    Personally, I always try and get aggro when the tank dies. And then I kite the boss until the tank is ready. And then I bring the boss back (or, when that has not been possible for us, I have reset the boss and we would start over, but I am getting better about bringing the boss back and letting the tank reacquire aggro).

    I think pulling aggro after a tank death has always been one of the primary squad roles of an archer, and I have saved a lot of my squads' lives by doing so. I have good aggro pulling abilities, and I have long range so when I pull aggro I usually have plenty of time to react, and I can move reasonably quickly, and I can use wings of grace for damage immunity and damage reduction, if I need to double back. And.... I just think I should be pulling aggro when its useful for me to be doing so.

    I do need some place where I can run, and in really bad situations I might try and fail. But I just can not agree with you that archers were not meant to be taking aggro in an emergency.

    Anyways, I think Badazmofo was right and you seem to be just ignoring this whole "kiting" thing.
  • Badazmofo - Dreamweaver
    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    ty Fleuri i like to see that im not the only one who feels an archer should be the one to kite the boss and btw to anyone who says if the boss can drop the tank it could easly drop the archer not true ive kited both pole and nob when i was around lvl 80 given i had a charm on but it only ticked a few times
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    it depends on the boss, if you can stand 3 hits then you can take agro if you die in 1 hit then you shouldnt.. even with dmg immunity you can still fail after 2nd hit and if you die usually cleric die :>
  • Alkaia - Harshlands
    Alkaia - Harshlands Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Well you do agree with me that bm can take it far more better then archer.
    Depend on the lvl too, but bm's beside the high hp comparing to archer, some of the times they even got bloodsuck (or whatever the name is) from a sin. so a fist bm usually can recover alot hp just from that.
    And a skill recovering 20%hp +some more help to take it better.
    Anyways Im still learning on my archer and never really got to a place like that, all I can say is that on my bm it was kinda easy to stay alive while barb getting ready.
  • Badazmofo - Dreamweaver
    Badazmofo - Dreamweaver Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    see Alkaia heres the thing your talking bout temp tanking were talking bout kiteing the whole point of kiteing is to not take the dmg in the first place or if you do dont take as much so that sin buff that you mentioned dont come into play

    chances are if the bm tried to kite since the person kiteing doesnt get healed by the cleric and most bosses have a ranged attack range thats equal to a archers max range so the bm may die before actualy getting outta the bosses range
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lu$t - Sanctuary
    Lu$t - Sanctuary Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Alkaia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Sorry but archers never meant to be those who take aggro if the tank die.
    Its either a BM or a Veno pet. Its true that usually if the tank dies the archer got aggro, but if he is not 10k hp archer, he shouldnt keep it.

    I have 6.6-6.8k hp buffed (lvl 10/ or sage barb buff) and i can solo tank the last boss in 3-2 with only food. That allows the squad to dd killing the boss faster. And to avoid the aoe damage everyone attacks from behind while i attack the other way. I also tank the first boss, asoteric runewolf, and decaying fragrance in fcc. I can do the first 2 with only a charm and food too and only have 1-3 charm ticks a boss depending on boss spikes and whatnot. Only time ive ever failed on tanking was with a bad cleric or runewolf lagged which no barb unless you have some 25k+ hp can servive usually. So get higher before passing judgement on an archer's capabilities. And just so theres no confusion or anything i have normal gear and refines around +2/+3 and +5 soulsmasher @ 97.(still saving for a hs :( )

    And also Bloodpaint only adds +2% based on each hit the damage dealt per hit. 20% would leave everyone QQing about OPness lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero~
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    it depends on the boss, if you can stand 3 hits then you can take agro if you die in 1 hit then you shouldnt.. even with dmg immunity you can still fail after 2nd hit and if you die usually cleric die :>

    I think we are talking about different subjects.

    If you take aggro because your tank dies, then you need to deal with that even if you would die in one hit. And if you kite properly, you will not get hit.

    Of course, if you are healthy enough to survive a few hits this gives you time to react and can turn your fatal mistakes into minor mistakes.

    Meanwhile, tanking is different from kiting. Ideally, to tank, you need to take less than half damage from any hit where ideally to kite you need to take no damage from any hit.
  • Ignathas - Sanctuary
    Ignathas - Sanctuary Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    ye i was talking about tanking and kiting at the same time :> or how is it called then you take agro tank for a while then get bored and try to loose agro cos it burns pots or/and charm.. :P but well i only used kiting with pole and nob in 69 (?) cave long ago.. and never since then, cos no room to run from other bosses, and yes with pole/nob i took no damage..
    as archer i can only tank things like 79/89 caves with cleric bb, no way im taking wurlords b:shocked
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Ignathas - Sanctuary wrote: »
    well i only used kiting with pole and nob in 69 (?) cave long ago.. and never since then, cos no room to run from other bosses, and yes with pole/nob i took no damage..

    The 79, 89 and 99 bosses are quite kitable. If you run far enough away from them they reset. If you stay close enough, you can bring them back to your tank.

    You do need to tank a hit or two when you double back, but winged shell and wings of grace can help you there, especially if you have good timing (winged shell + wings of grace will usually make you immune to one hit and make the second hit be nice and soft and you should be out of range before you take a third hit).

    Or, if you pace yourself (letting the boss stay relatively close to you), you can sometimes run out of the cave before you lose aggro and reset it.

    (I was fighting the 79 bosses without a cleric -- with just my sister and her herc, when I was in my mid 70s -- though sadly we never got any misty forest ring molds from linus until I was in my 90s. And we were fighting the 89 bosses in brimstone and eden in our low 80s -- she could solo eden but needed my help in brimstone then. And yes, we sometimes made mistakes, but I usually survived them because I could outrun the bosses. We have even run 99 (abbadon) without a cleric but AoEs make that painful -- exciting, but painful. And of course this can take a long time.)

Categories