New Daily

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

SlayerMaster - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree this is the coin sink that we need in order to stabilize the market in the game.

The problem is that no one will do this quest since the cost of doing it is too high compared to the reward you get from it.

For a coin sink to function, it need to be either impossible to avoid (gear repair for exemple) or attractive enough so players will use/do it.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The problem is that no one will do this quest since the cost of doing it is too high compared to the reward you get from it.

For a coin sink to function, it need to be either impossible to avoid (gear repair for exemple) or attractive enough so players will use/do it.

^+1 so whois the idoit who wants to waste their money on the daily= new daily

MALSUMIS - Lost City

the in game economics is simple. every party needs a barb and a cleric. barbs have very high repair bills and clerics need mp pots to help all the other classes. no way can a tank barb pay repair bills with dq drops anymore so there will be less of them either playing their chars or they will be charging for tank services. Also to assume this is my toon i am playing now it not only fail but ignorant. when you assume you make an a$$ out of u and me. grind away on a 3x.

dew of herbs = 1050 each

element frags = 1050 each and they aint dropping for ****.

so now my clerics charge for buffs res fb and bh. and i cant see anyone paying these costs for a quest with the same exp as a CS. this is not the coin dump we want or need
this is just a thought that was not thought through fully

Islamey - Dreamweaver

Because of the fact that this quest is infinitely repeatable, this could actually be a plausible coin sink...if oracles didn't exist.

If you just took away oracles out, people might just do tiger badges for a lack of alternative.

Pepper - Lost City

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oh, you did it for achievement... Hard work... Worth a praise ^^
I just hope the ring was useful. (sarcastic mode off)

Hey hey i have this ring! Farmed since 2008-2009 with my husband (b:kiss Midnight)
I`m still gettin pm`s from people asking where i got it. (farmed from lvl 77-92 b:surrender) and yes its worth it:)

Someone teach me how to quote right person lol
Gratz Searing

drjiggle

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

It helps the newbies by allowing them to sell nerfed DQ prices for more than the coin value.

It helps out the nubs and non-cash shoppers by giving some of those people who have many millions of extra coin and by giving them a place they can dispose of the coin, which will have an effect of reducing inflation. That helps everyone.

To whom? All the people who have been so eager for an opportunity to spend 2 million coins for something they could just as easily get for substantially less (buy Oracles and whatever your "reward" is)? I get what you're saying in principle, but the economics of this quest just don't work out, and gouging people to sell overpriced DQ items so it's even more expensive isn't going to make it more attractive to more people.

If you really know that many people with millions of extra coins they don't know how to dispose of, hook me up. I'll dispose of it for them.

Thedarkrealm - Lost City

Proclivity - Archosaur wrote: »

meh affordable if you can make the cash, i hear mini world bosses are a good income u should try doing them.

the mini world bosses dont exist in LC server, I've been looking for the past 6-8 months never saw 1 http://www.ecatomb.net/pwi/boss-wb.php

now if you mean the ones that are walking on the roads I've killed nearly all of those but nothing goods ever dropped.

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

Thedarkrealm - Lost City wrote: »

the mini world bosses dont exist in LC server, I've been looking for the past 6-8 months never saw 1

They are generally killed as soon as they respawn by campers.

Gundameister - Sanctuary

i was payed 285*5k=1425000 coins plus 2 and half hours for get the 40 dq items and at the end i got it 1 Training Esoterica, and some exp but cs give u more exp that this so what happend? if u buy 1 tiger pack aprox 450k in coins if u fail u get 15 Token of luck if any token its 12k = 180k , so u need 9 tokens for make 1 martial art scroll=Training esoterica, 450/15=30k after many numbers

Martial art scroll = 270k (coins) = 9 tokens with gold at 450k
Training Esoterica = 225k (coins) from boutique with gold at 450k or a little coins more
and my Training Esoterica from new daily Quest = 1425000 coins wth? :S what mean that quest i got some exp but that its really fail

b:angry

if i pay much coins i want 1 item of that valor = like a Gold Charm or something like the events packs or maybe more items no just 1 cheap item

new quest = time and money waste

Mysticpep - Dreamweaver

well i did the quest spent over a mil to start it, harvested the dq items in all i spent around 2 mil after repairs etc and what was my reward..... a training estorica which i could have bought from a cat shop for less. Oh well back to grinding to make up my losses.

Rillien - Heavens Tear

Interesting idea.

Like people have said, if you don't like it, you don't have to do it.

Coin sinks are good. This may not have been the best idea for one, but hey, it's a start.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

It's just a new daily..You don't have to do it sheesh b:surrender

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

There will always . . another player that taking risk because of their own Curiosity to try these quest.
And we will always see another people post reply or another new thread of their loses . .
b:bye

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Guys! We should ask for a daily next time, maybe they will give us more events! =DD

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ok everyone (who has some semblance of a clue how the economy actually works) has.



It helps the newbies by allowing them to sell nerfed DQ prices for more than the coin value.

It helps out the nubs and non-cash shoppers by giving some of those people who have many millions of extra coin and by giving them a place they can dispose of the coin, which will have an effect of reducing inflation. That helps everyone.




Yes, perhaps you may not buy them, but you might just end up selling them instead?




Yeah... it's also most of the new users who enjoy the changes that have mostly ruined the game as well.

Hmm, this theory would only work if people worked together. That said, it is only in an ideal situation. Would people in catshops agree to lower selling prices because of this and instantly, perfectly knowing that they would suffer huge losses in profit? I believe not.

It is just like when people sell high-cost boutique items. Lowering the price in order of millions is so hard for some that they are reluctant to do so; It even leads a few to be tempted to go for outrageous prices or worse, scamming (and trust me it is true).

Yes, I sell DQs and mats and herbs, but only to catshops with a good offer. I do not have time to open catshop and let my computer turn for nothing. I would NPC the mats, herbs, failing pieces of equipment and DQs (surprise, surprise), to compensate on my losses.

To sum it up, you are partially right and partially wrong. Lowering the DQ items' prices is supposed to reduce inputs of money, thus stabilizing the economy, but only in theory; if no one made efforts to reduce self-profit and be carebears in economics, PW's self-economy would get better.
But! In the best case it would take time; in the worst, it is a coin sink that will worsen the current conditions.


'It helps out the nubs and non-cash shoppers by giving some of those people who have many millions of extra coin and by giving them a place they can dispose of the coin, which will have an effect of reducing inflation. That helps everyone.'

Huh? Say again? I cannot believe you ever wrote that. You think that rich people would get interested in newbies and non-cash shoppers? Makes no sense whatsoever.

-Edit: I am already awaiting for people that do massive AOE to complain about repairs, or those who update on skills to see the widening gap that is shown to them... If they do not convert gold to coins, that is; ergo, a coin sink-

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hmm, this theory would only work if people worked together. That said, it is only in an ideal situation. Would people in catshops agree to lower selling prices because of this and instantly, perfectly knowing that they would suffer huge losses in profit? I believe not.

It is just like when people sell high-cost boutique items. Lowering the price in order of millions is so hard for some that they are reluctant to do so; It even leads a few to be tempted to go for outrageous prices or worse, scamming (and trust me it is true).

Yes, I sell DQs and mats and herbs, but only to catshops with a good offer. I do not have time to open catshop and let my computer turn for nothing. I would NPC the mats, herbs, failing pieces of equipment and DQs (surprise, surprise), to compensate on my losses.

To sum it up, you are partially right and partially wrong. Lowering the DQ items' prices is supposed to reduce inputs of money, thus stabilizing the economy, but only in theory; if no one made efforts to reduce self-profit and be carebears in economics, PW's self-economy would get better.
But! In the best case it would take time; in the worst, it is a coin sink that will worsen the current conditions.

I'm sorry, but you don't really make much sense here. I haven't really looked into this particular quest, nor do I plan on running it, but your response is confusing at best.

It does seem the reward isn't comparable to the costs associated, but if it is tweaked so that people do use it, in theory, it would drive up the value of specific DQ items. Just as Dragon Questing had driven up prices on DQ items in the past, the only person this would hurt are the people who buy DQ items to complete Dragon Quests, not the people who farmed the items. This would give an alternative to NPCing DQ items and provide more coin for the seller without creating new coin. This is bad how?

By coin sink here, I believe I need to clarify it for you or you'll misunderstand. I'm referring to a voluntary sink like teleport fees, not like mandatory tasks such as buying pots and repairs. Please understand this thread is about a quest that you have a choice to complete.

Please explain how a coin sink would actually hurt the economy. In the worst case scenario, nobody would use it and it wouldn't affect the economy at all.

'It helps out the nubs and non-cash shoppers by giving some of those people who have many millions of extra coin and by giving them a place they can dispose of the coin, which will have an effect of reducing inflation. That helps everyone.'

Huh? Say again? I cannot believe you ever wrote that. You think that rich people would get interested in newbies and non-cash shoppers? Makes no sense whatsoever.

-Edit: I am already awaiting for people that do massive AOE to complain about repairs, or those who update on skills to see the widening gap that is shown to them... If they do not convert gold to coins, that is; ergo, a coin sink-

You seriously have comprehension issues. My quote that you cannot make sense of is quite simple. I say nothing that 'rich people would get interested in nubs and non cash shoppers'. Only that a coin sink that only affected the rich would help out nubs and non-cash shoppers by decreasing inflation, which doesn't hurt the so called rich people and only hurts others.

BTW it is the so called 'rich' people who drive the economy, not the poor.

Armsman - Archosaur

My reaction to this new daily, "It's a step in the right direction."

This quest is a massive coin sink. That's a good thing.

This quest has poor rewards. That's a bad thing.

Since the rewards are so disproportionate to the cost, not many people will be doing this. In the end, if nobody does it then nothing has changed. If somebody does do it, then it'll lower inflation. Either way, we won't be any worse off.

So all in all, the new daily isn't bad. It just isn't very good.

Drivel - Heavens Tear

I'm sure everyone already knows how much the quest sucks by now, but I'll post my outcome anyways.

Cost: 995k coin and 36 DQ items.
Reward: 110k xp and 1 dragon sphere, which gave 60k worth of DQ items.

It wouldn't have been worth doing even if it didn't cost me 1 million coins to start it.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Armsman, well said. I agree it's a step in the right direction and even if nobody uses it, it can't hurt. Perhaps after a little examination they'll realize how they went wrong and fix it or make something better.

Drivel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm sure everyone already knows how much the quest sucks by now, but I'll post my outcome anyways.

Cost: 995k coin and 36 DQ items.
Reward: 110k xp and 1 dragon sphere, which gave 60k worth of DQ items.

It wouldn't have been worth doing even if it didn't cost me 1 million coins to start it.

Yeah, that's not very decent at all. There aren't many other non-cash shop or reward items that they could give otherwise there would probably be a bit of abuse to the system. Perhaps they should throw in a fair amount of reputation as well.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

I am not doing DQ quest either, if you ask me.

Then again, what are DQs for, besides that? Safe extension, lowest-tier aerogears, a very few select quests?

I see what you mean, in that if you do the DQ, you can use them for what you seek, just like Searing nicely proved; Otherwise, what are they good for? To resell to others for a crazy price? Okay. That said, for the sake of convenience, you would NPC them, correct?

By the way, I am sure you do use zen to gain coins. If you changed servers and created a new character and did NOT rely on merchanting or using zen to earn your wages, you could see what I mean; I am even wondering if you did not rely on dollars to gain coins at a low level, but hey, I am not here to hound you day and night.

As I see what you mean now (your line about rich and newbies and non-cash users did have incorrect syntax, so it confused me, sorry), I am willing to do a symbolic bet with you; let's wait and see who is right in the end. No trolling to the one who loses.

As for a coin sink that would only affect the rich, it would be no better than the current one, as there would be less cash available for PWE.
If you wanted to corner me there, you failed. b:thanks

PunkinKatt - Heavens Tear

And this quest is why I have made my decision on whether or not to take a break for a while or quit.

I am going to take an extended break. I'll keep my client updated and watch the forums/website for any possible improvements PWE may make in the future.

This game is already (quite literally) a pay-to-play game. It's voluntary, but if you want to get anywhere or keep up with the other players (eg: those who have nothing else in the world to do but put time into this game AND the cash shoppers) then you have to spend money for zen and use the cash shop.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I am not doing DQ quest either, if you ask me.

Then again, what are DQs for, besides that? Safe extension, lowest-tier aerogears, a very few select quests?

I see what you mean, in that if you do the DQ, you can use them for what you seek, just like Searing nicely proved; Otherwise, what are they good for? To resell to others for a crazy price? Okay. That said, for the sake of convenience, you would NPC them, correct?

I npc most of what finds it's way into my inventory now. If I were newer to the game and were receiving Dull Claw, Element Fragment, Element Essence and other DQ items that do have other valid purposes, I would do what I did back then and list then in the AH or cat shop them. It would be silly to NPC those items that have a value greater, unless it's just inconvenient for you.

By the way, I am sure you do use zen to gain coins. If you changed servers and created a new character and did NOT rely on merchanting or using zen to earn your wages, you could see what I mean; I am even wondering if you did not rely on dollars to gain coins at a low level, but hey, I am not here to hound you day and night.

By the time I was 70 I had saved somewhere between 10-15m coins without any use of the cash shop? If I had to start all over from scratch, I wouldn't need to cash shop at all.

As I see what you mean now (your line about rich and newbies and non-cash users did have incorrect syntax, so it confused me, sorry), I am willing to do a symbolic bet with you; let's wait and see who is right in the end. No trolling to the one who loses.

As for a coin sink that would only affect the rich, it would be no better than the current one, as there would be less cash available for PWE.
If you wanted to corner me there, you failed. b:thanks

An effective coin sink that only directly affected the rich would eliminate large portions of coin from those that have it and wouldn't have any direct effect on the poor. Indirectly, the rich would have less coin to purchase less gold, lowering demand and also making it more accessible to the poor.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I npc most of what finds it's way into my inventory now. If I were newer to the game and were receiving Dull Claw, Element Fragment, Element Essence and other DQ items that do have other valid purposes, I would do what I did back then and list then in the AH or cat shop them. It would be silly to NPC those items that have a value greater, unless it's just inconvenient for you.



By the time I was 70 I had saved somewhere between 10-15m coins without any use of the cash shop? If I had to start all over from scratch, I wouldn't need to cash shop at all.




An effective coin sink that only directly affected the rich would eliminate large portions of coin from those that have it and wouldn't have any direct effect on the poor. Indirectly, the rich would have less coin to purchase less gold, lowering demand and also making it more accessible to the poor.

1) Correct, it's what I do;

2) If you say so, and those amounts should be correct at that point. That said, you would expect less than this amount if you started now, unless you merchanted (harvesting is not even a guarantee nowadays)

3) Sadly they already tried this via the Jolly Jones Halloween event, and the results were mitigated;

Nice debating with you.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I'm glad they're trying to implement a coin sink, but this one was very poorly executed.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm glad they're trying to implement a coin sink, but this one was very poorly executed.

My point, kind sir, and worse is that it was disguised behind a poor excuse.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Lesthar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

3) Sadly they already tried this via the Jolly Jones Halloween event, and the results were mitigated;

Nice debating with you.

it's a step in the right direction.

You still haven't explained how a voluntary coin sink would be detrimental to the economy.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

it's a step in the right direction.

You still haven't explained how a voluntary coin sink would be detrimental to the economy.

Forced coin sink: Less demand for gold to buy directly from boutique and probably less recycling of boutique items that cash-shoppers do not want anymore?

In summary, indirect gold purchasing, but also the life cycle of boutique items (consumables or not) and the overall consumer power. Basic train of thoughts, in my opinion.

Voluntary coin sink: No one wants to lose coins! Elementary, my dear Watson. It would not be detrimental, but no one in his/her right mind would want to waste coins no matter the source of the latter.

As for the Jolly Jones event, participating in gambling is all about winning prizes, not coin sinking for the greater good. Right?

Ephemerai - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

It helps out the nubs and non-cash shoppers by giving some of those people who have many millions of extra coin and by giving them a place they can dispose of the coin, which will have an effect of reducing inflation. That helps everyone.

Only idiots would do this more than once considering the rewards the quest offers. That does not help at all in the long run; an effective coin sink quest would cost little enough or have good enough awards that people would continuously repeat the quest, thereby sucking more coin out of the economy than the current lame excuse of a coin sink.

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The problem is that no one will do this quest since the cost of doing it is too high compared to the reward you get from it.

For a coin sink to function, it need to be either impossible to avoid (gear repair for exemple) or attractive enough so players will use/do it.

Quoted for truth.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

it's a step in the right direction.

You still haven't explained how a voluntary coin sink would be detrimental to the economy.

I wouldn't say it's detrimental to the economy, but moreso detrimental to the game overall. It's one more example of a poorly executed idea that COULD have been handled better very easily. Another "broken" game element to add to the pile of ingame "features" or "activities" that little to no people actually use because of their inherent flaws.. kinda like Public Quest ch2 and ch3. Great ideas, would be fun/good if more people did them, but reward system fails enough that no people actually do them + it's a grand waste of time to do with only a handful of participants.

Lesthar - Heavens Tear

Oh and Mr. Dark, if something like housing was implemented (I know it will never be, so don't try to counter-argument on this, please), with expensive furniture to buy with coins only, MAYBE it would be the true coin sink that about all people would agree on.

But once again, housing in PWI is merely an impossible dream.

buttercupcruella

I read a few first pages and a few of the last one; I did skip the middle, so I apologize if I skipped something importantb:surrender

I know the examples of the rewards from you guys, but is there any official page where I can check what are the possible rewards and the percentage related to it. I checked the PWI database, couldn't find it.

Any1 knows?