Claw Barb vs Claw/Fist BM

Telarith - Sanctuary

Cybetron - Harshlands wrote: »

@Telarith: Yep you are absolutely right. I miscalculated on the chi brought by 5 aps and it does give a perma-spark. I guess the Onslaught doesn't matter now. And since the 5 aps itself gives a permaspark, beastial rage wouldn't be a factor here as well.

I agree to your second point too - canceling the channel of the boss does have its advantages in almost all instances and surely shadowless kick is much faster than us going back to tiger for alacrity. We can use earthquake (genie skill) but that's not the point because so can you.

So, even though Poison Fang might decrease the damage difference between the barb and bm, a fist/claw BM will definitely have an edge over a fist/claw barb in both PvE and PvP situations.

Not exactly damage-wise. While we'd have our mastery as pure physical, your two buffs split it between physical and wood. So you should actually deal more damage against HA targets. This then goes into the issue of stun-locking and genie skills, along with your cancel cast of Onslaught. Onslaught is much like our demon GS: good for a quick spike boost, not as a DPS increaser basically. So PvP is different from PvE.

PvE-wise it's not an issue of who would do more damage, it's just a matter of whether there is a better alternative to just using perma-spark during the take down of a boss. And because of all the issues that crop up, even with cancel casting on either side, it pretty much ends up being a waste of time for either class to bother with it outside of a one-time use before going into perma-spark. Which is why we didn't bother paying much attention when people kept trying to claim cancel-casting DBB was too OP in PvE. It is simply a tactic not worth the time lost.

Kniraven - Lost City

Claw Barbs self buffed have much more hp and similar defense to a self buffed Claw BM. The +p.atk buff a Barb has can almost make up for a BMs fist mastery. What makes a Claw Barb better than a BM is if the Barb and BM are both sharded with +vit stones.

Cybetron - Harshlands

@Telarith: Yep. Since both classes have the ability to perform equally well by having a perma-spark and since nothing but that is needed to tank/DD effectively there really is no need to cancel cast or use any skills, which would in turn reduce the efficiency of the spark. So PvE-wise both are pretty much the same.
Of course, PvP is something far too situation, skill and play-style based to deduce any conclusion. Anyway, thanks for a lively debate b:thanks

@Kniraven: For a solo run barbs do have an edge over the BM based only on the survivability criteria - more HP and Invoke; not to mention the use of four legs to run faster b:laugh

@Lucifer: True that barbs have less accuracy than BMs for the same amount of dex, but the accuracy we get with 200 dex points (to equip an endgame fist) and with accuracy rings is good enough to almost never miss in PvE. Demon BloodBath gives 300% boost in accuracy with only 15% of HP decrease which can be reinstated partially by replacing accuracy rings (atleast one of them) with VIT rings or just forget about the 2k HP loss out of 14k HP in humanoid form. b:pleased

Rubix - Harshlands

Just played on pw calc for about an hour after seeing this thread.
Both chars with equal gear and everything, BM wins.
The bm has more accuracy, more damage, more p def, and the big winner: SKILLS
A barb with fist has no stuns, no extra damage skills, nothing, they rely on pure damage.
A bm with fist has multiple skills, has stuns, cyclone heel, and a few other skills
Using any amount of common sense, you can see and know that yes, fist can be used on any class, but only a BM can use them with any potential.

Bartack - Heavens Tear

^^Sure we have other skills, just swap back to axes...kinda like a fist/axe bm. Anyway, your damage assessment is incorrect due to poison fang not showing on calc, and you also have to factor in crit rate to dps.

That said, i agree that fists are broken with -int, they should make -int gears act as described and have them shave off a static amount, not a %. That would mean that if you decked out in all available -int gears for -.4 attacks per second fists would go from 1.43 attacks per second to 1.83 attacks per second. to compensate bms for this abysmal nerf they should let cyclone heal stack w demon spark/relentless courage. There goes the op of fists/ daggers and the reason for other classes to gear for them.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

oyamajio wrote: »

LOL, yes right, shown in a big black box to a noob. Do you even play a bm? BM is the only class designed to fully utilize fist with SKILLs, so the name goes BLADE MASTER. I'm not talking about a noob fail bm. I'm talking about SKILLs brought to you by PWI. But it's more than enough to pick only the main skills Cyclone Heel (demon version deals a good damage + 20% attack speed increase), fist mastery (demon version adds 75% more weapon damage and +1% crit bonus). Top them up with demon spark, there you go - any class should roll a bm because they are simply "FAIL CLASSES" if they ever want to beat their fist master with fists.

Fist is the closest range type of weapon, so you'd better run for your life when attempting to use fist to beat a fist bm, including the new squeezy class SIN. So you SIN had better hide yourself from being detected. I'm talking about similar gear, levels and brain, ok.

Damn, why I even care about this. It happens all the time.

your an idiot or are really mininformed

demon sins can hit 5 aps with fists without a -int add on the actual fists

figure out what that means

Telarith - Sanctuary

Bartack - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^^Sure we have other skills, just swap back to axes...kinda like a fist/axe bm. Anyway, your damage assessment is incorrect due to poison fang not showing on calc, and you also have to factor in crit rate to dps.

That said, i agree that fists are broken with -int, they should make -int gears act as described and have them shave off a static amount, not a %. That would mean that if you decked out in all available -int gears for -.4 attacks per second fists would go from 1.43 attacks per second to 1.83 attacks per second. to compensate bms for this abysmal nerf they should let cyclone heal stack w demon spark/relentless courage. There goes the op of fists/ daggers and the reason for other classes to gear for them.

Actually, -int works as it is described. Since we attack 1.43 per second, the interval between hits is 1/1.43, or .7 seconds. It subtracts from that, which is why it's called -interval instead of +attacks.

RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary

Barb with fists/claws is the thing all those dd barb people aspire to be! *remembers all those dd barb people with axes..."i dont tank! i dd to hold aggro........................"*

It just all sounds fishy to me.

Combatte - Dreamweaver

I'm a fist bm

Telarith - Sanctuary

Combatte - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm a fist bm

I'm inclined to respond with either a Yipdy-****, or point out that AA meetings are in the next forum over.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm inclined to respond with either a Yipdy-****, or point out that AA meetings are in the next forum over.

its times like these i miss spoons tha banhammer

Dags - Harshlands

Just use a wood pot and drake's breath bash and you can out DPS a barb with a BM. >.>

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Dags - Harshlands wrote: »

Just use a wood pot and drake's breath bash and you can out DPS a barb with a BM. >.>

depends on how fast you cancle DBB

if you can do it in under .2 seconds and cancle its aftercast by jaming 2-3 spark then yes its great otherwise your wasteing more sparked hits than the proc adds

and yes i wood pots

Rasgore - Harshlands

Lucifer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yea thats somethin i totaly have to agree on is that they should change fist/claws to only BM's. And cashoppers can QQ all they want if it happens. And i also think its bull that all classes can u fist/claws but if i wanna use daggers i cant (not that i would want to because that would be a noob move) but just to point out. And i cant use crosbows either =/.

wat are u guys wyining about bm use axe and hammer wich is made for barbs not BM

DrDrakken - Lost City

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

wat are u guys wyining about bm use axe and hammer wich is made for barbs not BM

says you.

BLADEmaster, jack of all trades... Including axes.
Axes weren't made specifically for barb, we have axe skills too remember?

Telarith - Sanctuary

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

wat are u guys wyining about bm use axe and hammer wich is made for barbs not BM

This......this is stupid. We have axe and hammer mastery, and axe skills. You should stick to clubs and grunting. Thinking is beyond your capabilities.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

DrDrakken - Lost City wrote: »

says you.

BLADEmaster, jack of all trades... Including axes.

Except for daggers. They're blades too. ;p

FateBlade - Lost City

Only BM have Fist Weapon Mastery.

DrDrakken - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Except for daggers. They're blades too. ;p

They is too small and weak for us big and strong melees b:avoid

Partypooper - Harshlands

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

wat are u guys wyining about bm use axe and hammer wich is made for barbs not BM

Idiot.

Bladed_Tony - Raging Tide

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

wat are u guys wyining about bm use axe and hammer wich is made for barbs not BM

lol.. apparently someone hasnt seen the BM skill set..

Axe/Hammer mastery

lmao

Zerhee - Lost City

I have a WB on my account: same gear, same build, 2 levels lower (10 less STR).

As sad as it may seem, yes, my wb's DPS is slightly higher than my wr's (believe it or not, I parsed it in multiple occasions). In addition, turtle/onslaught/devour/bestial rage/higher hp/faster constant movement speed make it a much better farmer.
But still, I sincerely hope they'll make Fists/Claws WR only like it's being rumored recently.

/thread?

DrDrakken - Lost City

Zerhee - Lost City wrote: »

I sincerely hope they'll make Fists/Claws WR only like it's being rumored recently.

/thread?

Really wish this would happen, but don't think so.

Rasgore - Harshlands

DrDrakken - Lost City wrote: »

says you.

BLADEmaster, jack of all trades... Including axes.
Axes weren't made specifically for barb, we have axe skills too remember?

but really think of it all class have a specifec wepon u guys were made for blade barbs axe and hammer wizz and venos wonds and staffs assain daggers pysysiis orbs see that.so u guys should be mad that barbs are better with fist/claw becuz we cant use skils for them u guys can

Rasgore - Harshlands

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

This......this is stupid. We have axe and hammer mastery, and axe skills. You should stick to clubs and grunting. Thinking is beyond your capabilities.

yeah i know u have axe and hammer masster but ur name is BLAD master when the game first started all class use wat they were ment to use blade master use BLAD thye not call hammer master

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

yeah i know u have axe and hammer masster but ur name is BLAD master when the game first started all class use wat they were ment to use blade master use BLAD thye not call hammer master

Blademaster is somewhat a mistranslation. It should be Warrior really.

Zerhee - Lost City

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

yeah i know u have axe and hammer masster but ur name is BLAD master when the game first started all class use wat they were ment to use blade master use BLAD thye not call hammer master

I don't read 'axe' or 'hammer' anywhere in 'Barbarian' nor 'Werebeast'. Your argument is invalid.

Also axes have blades. So please just use hammers from now on and leave the blades to WRs.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

yeah i know u have axe and hammer masster but ur name is BLAD master when the game first started all class use wat they were ment to use blade master use BLAD thye not call hammer master

An axe is a piece of steel with a sharpened edge (or two) that is designed to cut. A blade is a piece of steel with a sharpened edge (or two) that is designed to cut.

It's not 'Swordmaster' and Barbarians should be using clubs. They are, after all, barbaric... no?

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

Rasgore - Harshlands wrote: »

yeah i know u have axe and hammer masster but ur name is BLAD master when the game first started all class use wat they were ment to use blade master use BLAD thye not call hammer master

You are a Barbarian, you should be using crowbars.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

An axe is a piece of steel with a sharpened edge (or two) that is designed to cut. A blade is a piece of steel with a sharpened edge (or two) that is designed to cut.

It's not 'Swordmaster' and Barbarians should be using clubs. They are, after all, barbaric... no?

Claws, clubs, pole axes and pole hammers