Ideas for improving the economy in this game

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  • Posts: 623 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Event pots and mp charms are required in order to heal/dps effectively for casters. NPC pots are generally not sufficient for mana recovery over a long fight.

    You're absolutely right; before tokens, you had to burn an mp charm for sustained mana regen. Compare that price, even with gold at 120k, to the price of herb yuanxiao, and herbs come out on top by a WIDE margin.

    You're right about refines being more expensive, but I made a thread a few days ago....shards are by far cheaper than what they used to be. Adjusting for different coin:gold ratios, getting TT 90 (or 80 or 70) gears to +5 with 4 immaculate shards is the same price (give or take) now as it was before packs (not including socket stones)..
  • Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I don't know how to explain the problem of 1 better... it doesn't matter if nobody opens chests of coins right now, the simple idea of converting gold into pure in game coins is terrible.

    People don't open chests BUT they could, they lose profit but at the same time destroy the economy if that happens. And some situations could happen as well, like the gold falling below 200k, or nobody buying gold on AH. If nobody buys on AH because "it's too expensive" (an example) no matter how much the price drops (people want <200k), people will probably start opening chests instead.

    Basically indeed, at the moment they don't do much harm being there, but it's risky, you're just "trusting" that it won't work bad in the future. There should be in no way allowed to inject coins directly in any game's economy using RL money on it. It's kinda the same as buying coins from bot farmers, which is illegal and for a good reason.


    Also I forgot about TW -.- it's problematic because it injects massive coins every week on the market. I can only think of one solution and that is, to change the reward, from coins to something else. I don't know what yet since every territory must give something of that, but it would be better if it is something consumable, like charms, pots, event food, etc.
    First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
    Quit.
  • Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Chests of Coins were introduced to ensure that the price of Gold will never drop below 200k again. Ever. Why would you sell 5 Gold for less than a million when you could pop open a Chest of Coins with a Perfect Hammer? It's part of the campaign to make it more difficult for people to play completely for free. The economy will never be "fixed" because the situation it is in, is the result of deliberate actions to make it so.
  • Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Also I forgot about TW -.- it's problematic because it injects massive coins every week on the market. I can only think of one solution and that is, to change the reward, from coins to something else. I don't know what yet since every territory must give something of that, but it would be better if it is something consumable, like charms, pots, event food, etc.


    Problem with changing TW reward is that even being that i'm in a land owning faction that covers a little over half the map, the amount i recive barely covers 1 gold charm. If i have more then 1 signifigant fight, then I'm losing money. Which, isnt a huge deal. The main thing i'm basically saying tho is its not a huge amount of money like everyone thinks, the problem is the visibility of it coming in 1 large chunk makes it seem worse, when in the end, it doesnt equate to a whole lot. Remember, a good portion of that money goes BACK into a coin sink (building towers, catapult scrolls, etc, for fighting in TW). There is a large sink of cash which is what the prize fee is meant to help cover. Charms & in-TW costs is about it, its not this big "OMG the big faction members are getting super rich!" thing people claim it to be.
  • Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Ok well thinking a bit and based on my previous MMO where the economy wasn't even close to screwed as in this, I came up with the following points:

    1) Remove ANY way to convert gold into coins DIRECTLY. Gold > Coin conversion should only be between players. Maybe remove the gold fee when you sell gold since it seems a bit harsh, but keep the coin one.

    This includes removing chest of coins and 10 million bank note

    Why is it bad, hmm? Because people can inject more coins into the economy and mess up the market simply by charging more money on the game. This is ****, someone could charge 200k dollars (exaggerated but possible and I hope you get the point) and then open tons of chest of coins and packs and inflate the market so much others will have no chance of buying anything again.

    I exaggerated of course, but it only proves why it's an idiotic idea to keep those.


    2) Remove any way to get stuff you farm or grind for, from the boutique. This includes mostly packs. It's extremely stupid for them to sell stuff you actually farm and what this game was supposed to be played for, from cash shop.

    You can still sell your gold to other players and buy the drops after, but at least this way the instances will still be worthwhile to farm for those that need drops or money, instead of their prices deflating so much, while the overall market actually inflates because of (1)


    3) Remove Catshops. Seriously I am not kidding. For one they actually inflate the market more than without. Because people would be forced to sell on AH much more items (except on world chat) and AH has a fee for this reason, to help deflate the economy. And I'm not talking about the fee when you put an item for sale only, but the one where you don't get the whole money you sold the item for back, you get a bit less.

    Also without Catshops everyone would have the same chance at merchanting (some ppl can't let computer on for catshops atm), and because of this, merchanting will drop A LOT except a few people who are smart enough (if everyone merchants, there would be no more profit at all from it)

    This also leads to a better market because those merchants won't control it anymore and be the only ones able to afford some things. It will still be possible to merchant a bit by checking AH regularly, but not to such high effects as now.

    Of course along with this suggestion they will have to improve AH searching. It's actually great except it works in chinese, fix it please and trust me it will be sooo much easier to buy and sell the items you need. Even easier than with catshops atm, when you have to check all Arch catshops for items you're interested in.

    Also add more categories and more items able to be sold on AH, practically make everything that can be traded able to be sold there.


    4) Contrary to what some think, increasing drops in instances would actually not affect the economy unless it's an absurd number, because if you're a farmer you ALSO get more stuff dropped per run. They are worth less, yes, but you get more to sell.

    It will just be more difficult to find buyers, and maybe taking more time, but you'll still manage to get relatively same income.


    But of course if you remove packs and Nirvana crystal chests I also suggest improve Nirvana drops by a lot because it's a bit ridiculous, but that's for another subject.


    I hope someone who can redirect to GMs reads and considers these ideas, I am not talking with zero experience here, if you want to know, I played another f2p with a far better economy than in here, and I was 2nd richest on server. If you don't believe me, oh well too bad I just hope you will realize one day what I said in here is true.

    Peace and have a nice day.
    So let me get this straight..

    Remove all gold from the gold trading (or "directly" in your case, making it that much more difficult) --> results in black market gold trading, since there is ALWAYS going to be a market for people using real money to buy game currency. Hello gold farming websites! Also promotes botting from 3rd parties who might wanna do it running countless clients on a few dedicated computers. Might want to look at other F2P and MMO games as to why the system of trading real currency to game currency is a plan that works. It's a smart way of putting the economy in players' hands and a good security measure to deter black market virtual currency trading -- directly.

    Change the system of trade --> because smart people (who are obviously far fewer than otherwise) have found ways to make a lot of money and a majority of cash shoppers and dumb people want an easier way to do what these people do without any of that pesky innovative "thinking", or mercantile skill.

    Remove items from the boutique --> remove profit. Good thinking. I bet any company would love the idea of absolutely plummeting profits of their own, just so someone can endlessly farm and grind instances for quick cash that normally takes forever to farm or a lot quicker with real cash to get.
  • Posts: 1,816 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    So let me get this straight..

    Remove all gold from the gold trading (or "directly" in your case, making it that much more difficult) --> results in black market gold trading, since there is ALWAYS going to be a market for people using real money to buy game currency. Hello gold farming websites! Also promotes botting from 3rd parties who might wanna do it running countless clients on a few dedicated computers. Might want to look at other F2P and MMO games as to why the system of trading real currency to game currency is a plan that works. It's a smart way of putting the economy in players' hands and a good security measure to deter black market virtual currency trading -- directly.

    The OP isnt talking about buying gold at the AH. She is refering to processes where you basically buy coin via gold directly from PWE. IE. packs > best tokens > 10 mil bank notes, or Hammer > pop 1 mil chest of coins. Basically ways in which new coin is introduced into the system because you used gold.
  • Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I know that I'm not supposed to mention other games but I kind of have to in this case to display what Gold Trading actually accomplishes. Years ago, WoW and Diablo Online when they first came about saw a mass of people selling rare in-game items over ebay, and some items would end up selling for thousands. I'm sure there is still a place you can transfer them, but gold trading here has made that pretty pointless.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Posts: 1,417 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The reason PW's economy is so horrible is because we have the auction house where we can sell Cubicoins/gold for in game gold. All PW versions are like this, PWI hasnt gotten as bad as some of the older versions of pw, so i consider playing here not that bad. When you have to buy cubigold for 1.5mil-2mil+ in game gold, now thats bad. as the PWI version gets older the prices will only raise. Sorry to say but its true for almost every PW version in the world, as long as they let players sell cubigold/coins for in game gold it will always be this way. Oh the lucky boxes dont help either, it raises the price for ingame gold for cubigold/coins.

    Which lucky box, the mob drop lucky box or the cube golden/platinum boxes? Because neither of those really add coin to the game, cube breaks dead even on average.
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  • Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Well i have simply install some other mmorpg, since this one is getting unplayble for casual players and checking from time to time here the forum if they gonna improve something or goes the ship down.
  • Posts: 6,790 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I know that I'm not supposed to mention other games but I kind of have to in this case to display what Gold Trading actually accomplishes. Years ago, WoW and Diablo Online when they first came about saw a mass of people selling rare in-game items over ebay, and some items would end up selling for thousands. I'm sure there is still a place you can transfer them, but gold trading here has made that pretty pointless.
    I remember seeing someone on here who posted a link to a site where you could supposedly buy coins, much like buying coins in other games.

    Just made me laugh really, as the price was like $1 for each 100k.



    Buying gold at the auction house and cash shop items in cat shops = good

    Opening packs and getting 2 best luck tokens and injecting 10 mil into the economy = bad
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  • Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Problem with changing TW reward is that even being that i'm in a land owning faction that covers a little over half the map, the amount i recive barely covers 1 gold charm. If i have more then 1 signifigant fight, then I'm losing money. Which, isnt a huge deal. The main thing i'm basically saying tho is its not a huge amount of money like everyone thinks, the problem is the visibility of it coming in 1 large chunk makes it seem worse, when in the end, it doesnt equate to a whole lot. Remember, a good portion of that money goes BACK into a coin sink (building towers, catapult scrolls, etc, for fighting in TW). There is a large sink of cash which is what the prize fee is meant to help cover. Charms & in-TW costs is about it, its not this big "OMG the big faction members are getting super rich!" thing people claim it to be.
    I know what you mean but that wasn't my point. Even if every territory is owned by a different faction it would still be the same. This wasn't jealousy of factions with lots of territories getting money, just that too much money is poured into the economy every week. It doesn't matter you waste your money on a charm, the money is still given to the charm seller. Imagine if there's only 1 person who bought lots of charms with RL cash, supplying all the TW people's charms... imagine how much coins he gets and that's all generated coin, not a trade, which results in inflation.

    @JanusZeal: Sorry if you misunderstood, that wasn't what I meant. Darksylph explained below you what I was trying to say.
    First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
    Quit.
  • Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    After I read through your post again with time I found something funny. Of course nothing like this will ever happen, but good try. Anyway, while you suggest removing catshops, a very important element of the game, you still want to keep AH. Sounds cool, and I'm fine with it. But for most people AH just isn't what they want. It just doesn't work like it should, even with search filters.

    What I'd like to see is something that has been suggested many times before. Have a special "channel" (like a server in a server), where you can teleport. There you would have catshops that are up as long as you want, even when you are logged of. No lag in the game because you would have to move to another server to buy things. However, it would be as easy as teleporting to OHT or another town. Maybe also add a CS item for rich players to set up a normal catshop to the normal server. I know it's something that separates players, but I don't think it's much different from cowshop/catshop thing.

    Then again, deflation could also be caused by catshop fees, but I dunno. That kinda sucks though, even if it was a small one. It would drive up prices too.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
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  • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Buying gold at the auction house and cash shop items in cat shops = good
    Agree with auction, not with catshop. Especially the "buy" option of the catshop.

    And nothing against boutique goods, it's teh "devious" merchanting that's the prob. By devious I mean the one done in catshops because, let's face it, it requires fooling people. The auction makes it more accessible, less chances to fool people.

    I mean, I get the feeling that's why you are against auction-only trade in this game as well, be honest about it.
  • Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    Agree with auction, not with catshop. Especially the "buy" option of the catshop.

    And nothing against boutique goods, it's teh "devious" merchanting that's the prob. By devious I mean the one done in catshops because, let's face it, it requires fooling people. The auction makes it more accessible, less chances to fool people.

    I mean, I get the feeling that's why you are against auction-only trade in this game as well, be honest about it.

    Why is that fooling? I'm paying a bit less than you'd get for selling it yourself. Lazy people don't want to sell things themselves.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    It's not rocket science...

    All the people who have never bought zen go buy some.

    That is all.
  • Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    And nothing against boutique goods, it's teh "devious" merchanting that's the prob. By devious I mean the one done in catshops because, let's face it, it requires fooling people. The auction makes it more accessible, less chances to fool people.

    This is why your idealism comes across as so ignorant or just plain idiotic. If I were to open a catshop buying and selling anything, lets take mid-mats for example... I would have my buy section selling at lets say, 2250 and my sell section at 3350. How am I fooling, deceiving or tricking someone? How does that work?

    When I go to buy my Crazy Stones from a cat shop, I damn well know I'm paying more than I could if I bought those from the merchant and combined them myself. I don't care. I'm NOT getting ripped off cause I'm saving myself the time and pain of doing it myself, so I'll gladly pay for my stones already combined.

    Same with mats... if I need mats, I don't care if you're only buying them for 500 coin, if you're selling them for a reasonable price, which is about what everyone else is selling them for, I'll buy them.

    I am neither stupid or uninformed. Yet, I have no issues paying for the luxury of not having to waste my time asking everyone, hey you got one of these I can have or buy... when I can just go buy one and get it over with.

    I really find it hard to believe 'convenience' is a concept you cannot grasp.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    After I read through your post again with time I found something funny. Of course nothing like this will ever happen, but good try. Anyway, while you suggest removing catshops, a very important element of the game, you still want to keep AH. Sounds cool, and I'm fine with it. But for most people AH just isn't what they want. It just doesn't work like it should, even with search filters.
    Actually there are many games with only AH as means of trading and it works great. There are no trade problems, there are occasional "WTS" on world chats like in here but nothing special.

    The difference is without the catshop system, and with the fees AH has, it makes it less possible to resell, and much harder. This results in better prices for the average player, because there aren't uber rich ppl who only merchanted instead of actual "worked" for their money driving the prices up. Well of course the merchants will hate this idea, but they're actually the minority.

    Of course to have no problems with AH means to be more advanced, a working search option along with a filtering the result option by price and/or something else. Also ALL items must be able to be sold on AH, including many boutique items that can't.

    If you played other games without catshop you'd know that it works great only with AH, actually there are far less maybe even no QQs about merchants in there, and "quick" resellers. The only QQs about money are on those who got lucky with some uber drop and got rich becuz of it, but that's part of the game and not the point of this thread, happens in all MMOs :P

    While on this one, I always see QQs about merchants and resellers by the majority of the players... ofc the minority who merchant love the option to do so lol, I wouldn't argue with this
    First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
    Quit.
  • Posts: 521 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    I agree with the OP except for removing cat shops and for the nirvana thingy.

    The FIRST point in particular is one of the best suggestions to reduce inflation.

    Imho, they should totally remove the token system. it destroyed the economy.
    If you happy wanna be, against the wind you won't have to pee.

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  • Posts: 1,526 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    This is why your idealism comes across as so ignorant or just plain idiotic. If I were to open a catshop buying and selling anything, lets take mid-mats for example... I would have my buy section selling at lets say, 2250 and my sell section at 3350. How am I fooling, deceiving or tricking someone? How does that work?

    When I go to buy my Crazy Stones from a cat shop, I damn well know I'm paying more than I could if I bought those from the merchant and combined them myself. I don't care. I'm NOT getting ripped off cause I'm saving myself the time and pain of doing it myself, so I'll gladly pay for my stones already combined.

    Same with mats... if I need mats, I don't care if you're only buying them for 500 coin, if you're selling them for a reasonable price, which is about what everyone else is selling them for, I'll buy them.

    I am neither stupid or uninformed. Yet, I have no issues paying for the luxury of not having to waste my time asking everyone, hey you got one of these I can have or buy... when I can just go buy one and get it over with.

    I really find it hard to believe 'convenience' is a concept you cannot grasp.
    The Gold Trading in AH is automatic and global. Catshops do not have this "feature". That's one of the probs, along with no fees. Furthermore it's accessible for the entire items in the category/filter. You can check all possible deals and take the best one (or automatic, in case of gold trading). That's not "convenience"? Is it that it would make people more informed when making a decision of how much is worth, or at least, look at all the offers available? (because yes, there's a lot of stupid ppl in this game, especially noobs)

    Let's just say, IRL you can't sell something while not paying attention (being afk), unless you pay someone for his services (fees) to do so for you, pretty much how modernized trade works (banks & all).
  • Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited May 2010
    The Gold Trading in AH is automatic and global. Catshops do not have this "feature". That's one of the probs, along with no fees. Furthermore it's accessible for the entire items in the category/filter. You can check all possible deals and take the best one (or automatic, in case of gold trading). That's not "convenience"? Is it that it would make people more informed when making a decision of how much is worth, or at least, look at all the offers available? (because yes, there's a lot of stupid ppl in this game, especially noobs)


    See, scanning through west and browsing cat-shops is a nice distraction. I know plenty of people that like to go through them all, much like you would do at a flea market, browing tables seeing what people have to offer. If someone is asking too much and you choose to make an uninformed purchase, that's your fault.

    As for the AH, example of me selling mats from a cat shop, to be competitive, I would have to price them within the same price as the person with the lowest price and most amount of goods to sell. These are the people that generally tend to set the lowest price, not the highest. If they price even 50 or 100 coins too high, someone else will come along and undercut them.

    So for that mat that I would sell individually at 3350, for example, I would need to add 500 coins for the listing fee and 3.5% to cover my losses... so that mat I would sell at 3350 just increased to 4000 coins for me to get the same money. Of course I would have to list in batches of 10-20 mats a piece, but then you wouldn't have the option to buy one or two, you would be required to buy whatever amount is listed, whether or not you need them all.

    As a merchanter, many of my sales are single digit sales... people who only need one or two of any particular item. They would be screwed by having to purchase more than they would need, or to actually pay more for one or two items if they don't have the time or motivation to keep asking people... hey do you have one or two of these I can have/buy until they actually find one instead of going to where they know they can find it and just buy it.

    Let's just say, IRL you can't sell something while not paying attention (being afk), unless you pay someone for his services (fees) to do so for you, pretty much how modernized trade works (banks & all).

    Yes, but I think you've pointed out to me before, though I could be mistaken, that this is a game, and having a feature to where you can set up your own stall to sell your own items wherever you want is a nice bonus for everyone who wishes to use it.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.

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