Ideas for improving the economy in this game
Comments
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Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »I'm not gonna seriously bother responding this properly because, like always, Michael thinks this game is real life... and the matter of fact, he's wrong even there, because he thinks money IRL is created through farming/services, not through loans and taxes to and from the federal reserve.
You whine and complain about nonsense and continuously ask for gimmies. You take everything literally and just don't comprehend simple facts. Also, you have serious comprehension issues and you whine too much.
Yeah, the game is ****. You said it. Leave already then.
I can generalize and take your comments out of context as well.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
And yes catshops do break affordability, not in the minor sense, in the "get rich" sense. If no one had 100 million coins, for example, NOTHING WOULD BE SO EXPENSIVE.
But people WOULD have 100mil coins, just instead of it being possible for people that are willing to works towards it, it would only be attainable for cash shoppers.There's a reason merchanting is not a productive activity IRL
Too bad it is. You think every store you buy something at supplies it's own goods? They buy it from their suppliers and they sell it to you at an increased price, and this is how they make money.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »Of course a non-cash shopper shouldn't get lunar claws until after a year of playing. The only reason their quick level choices were added was to get them up there and needing to buy gold because they skipped all that time the rest of us gained coins from constant grinding. So if they are against cash shopping, don't do any BHs. Don't use oracles. And don't use hypers. Level like normal, and money builds up. Buy sensibly, do your runs for your mats, and grind like crazy to get the 90%+ needed for each level outside of quests. By the time a year or more passes, you guys can go into lunar, and do the runs and earn the claws, same as you always could.
But they don't want to wait, they want it soon. Much sooner than anyone who originally was playing gained it. And PWI gave them that, and also a way to make up for not grinding and gaining all that money from AoE grinds, TT runs, and everything else they would have done in a normal year of leveling.
So what would you do, solo grind all this time? Isn't it a MMO, when did it turn into a MSO?0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Too bad it is. You think every store you buy something at supplies it's own goods? They buy it from their suppliers and they sell it to you at an increased price, and this is how they make money.0
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Ah, one of those new ones who thinks our suggestions matter. Cute.0
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The people running them don't give a damn about the GDP just like the merchants don't give a damn about the GDP of the game, hell NO ONE cares about the GDP of the game. You make it sound like I should be trying to line the pockets of every single player in the game, which really, outside of my friends, I could care less about them. Hell let em run around with +1 gear, makes the game that much easier for me when I get chosen to tank instances over other people and when I can pretty much waltz through orchid temple some days cause everyone I fight has +1/+2 TT90.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »The people running them don't give a damn about the GDP just like the merchants don't give a damn about the GDP of the game, hell NO ONE cares about the GDP of the game. You make it sound like I should be trying to line the pockets of every single player in the game, which really, outside of my friends, I could care less about them. Hell let em run around with +1 gear, makes the game that much easier for me when I get chosen to tank instances over other people and when I can pretty much waltz through orchid temple some days cause everyone I fight has +1/+2 TT90.
Yes, he wants everything easier for himself and everything more difficult for everyone else. The game is too hard for him and it should be made easier so he doesn't have to do anything to accomplish what others are willing to do. It's quite selfish and humorous at the same time.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
orangeladey wrote: »Money still works the same as always, people charge exorbitant fees in their Cat Shops or at the Auction. But it is still business as usual between players.
Wrong. Read my post about ultimate substances; I crashed the price through merchanting. Heavy merchanting FORCES lower prices. When I'm selling at 40k and making 4k ish profit, someone can just undercut me by 2k and still make a good profit. Meanwhile, people crafting TT gear get a discount. You're welcome. b:bye0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »I click quote, this is all I get. I'm not responding to your red text because if you're too lazy to format a post correctly to actually receive a response then I won't bother responding.
*shrug*Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »I find it weird that somehow catshopping is a bad thing, but they were the second richest player in their last game. To be one of the richest, generally means someone needs to be getting screwed over comparatively unless they slaved away on the game a whole lot. And buying cheap and reselling it high would count.
Although no it wasn't as easy as it may sound. I was very poor for a lot of time in that game as well, and was grinding actual mobs at start to earn decent gear. Then I moved on to farming instances (those were actually worthwhile and hard compared to these in this game, you even needed some 'level' of gear to even stand a chance). Was making a lot more than grinding, but still not as much as making me 2nd richest on server yet.
Still was fun and I was progressing upgrading my gear every day. One day I actually became very good geared and entered the "end game" club. So I could visit the hardest instances in game as well. But I wasn't that rich yet.
Then came a new patch... let's say they added something similar to spiritual cultivation quest in here. There was a loooong dungeon where you needed a boss for a drop, drop was with a 20% chance or so and shared between party members (only 1 was getting it). Imagine the long dungeon as long as fb79 to Brigand, but without the possibility to wine, nor to pull "one at a time", and mobs and bosses A LOT harder than in this game. 80% of the server could not even get to the boss because of the difficulty of the mobs & high gear requirements, while experienced parties could get a run done in 3-4 hours.
As you can imagine, it was a complete pain to get your culti done. However,
if you think stealth is OP in this game, well in the other it was OP in PvE as well. I had this idea once to try and stealth all the way to the boss, which was possible. However nobody thought a rogue could solo the boss. But since I am kinda smart at figuring tactics and what not, I knew I could stand a chance against it, if I apply the correct tactics and avoid his most damaging attacks.
So first try was a failure... 2nd, after 20 minutes of running around scared of the boss who was about to kill me several times b:shocked (was actually fun you know) mission accomplished and boss soloed b:victory Sadly no item dropped that time b:surrender
Then I mastered more and geared up a bit more and it became easier to farm, sold the spirit culti items for 10 million each, which was A LOT for that game. I had ~140 when I was 2nd richest person on server.
So you see, all my fortune came from farming, which actually made the game "hard" and challenging, and rewarding for those that actually play and manage to defeat the challenges, instead of people afking on a catshop and reselling.
Now, I know I was OP with my idea of soloing the boss, and not everyone was able to hide past the whole dungeon, but farming other instances in groups was also fun and kinda profiting, not as much as the solo, but still gave me decent gear etc.
This gives me some nostalgia also, I miss the good old fun times from the other game where dungeons were actually hard, with lots of mobs to clear before bosses, bosses tactical and difficult, and without stupid wine option b:sad I just hope TT and others would be harder with more mobs to kill (and tactical on pulls etc) like that previous game where I had a lot of fun.
But I wouldn't return, actually the reasons for quitting I said aren't all, here's more >.>
1) game was full of cheaters lately, that never got banned, item duping was common in that game. Even I dupped once but at least it was unintentional.
2) item disappears were also common, along with dupes. I lost a lot of friends who quit because their end game gear disappeared.
3) a lot of bots and coin sellers.First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
Quit.0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »The people running them don't give a damn about the GDP just like the merchants don't give a damn about the GDP of the game, hell NO ONE cares about the GDP of the game. You make it sound like I should be trying to line the pockets of every single player in the game, which really, outside of my friends, I could care less about them. Hell let em run around with +1 gear, makes the game that much easier for me when I get chosen to tank instances over other people and when I can pretty much waltz through orchid temple some days cause everyone I fight has +1/+2 TT90.
Why are you in this thread?
This thread is, suggestions to improve the economy in this game, aka for every player. Or should I say, the average per capita, since after all, that's what determines a healthy economy or not. It's not, "suggestions to improve my pockets" thread.0 -
2) Remove any way to get stuff you farm or grind for, from the boutique. This includes mostly packs. It's extremely stupid for them to sell stuff you actually farm and what this game was supposed to be played for, from cash shop.
You can still sell your gold to other players and buy the drops after, but at least this way the instances will still be worthwhile to farm for those that need drops or money, instead of their prices deflating so much, while the overall market actually inflates because of (1)
While i would wholeheartedly agree with this before the first pack release, i do believe the damage has been done. Loads of high levels now own several event items while your average non-CS player probably wont even see 1-2 of these on his character anytime soon, if ever.
I do believe this is a bit unfair to non-CS players because the people who spend a lot of money already have the advantage of refines / sockets on their gear, but at least earlier they had to work for the items themselves like everybody else.
Now don't get me wrong...someone who spends a ton of money on this game should have better stuff than someone who doesn't spend a penny, and i'm thankful to those who spend loads because i can enjoy a great game for free because of them. I do however believe a non-CS high level player is getting slapped in the face every step of the way also.
It might work if they just make these items easier to get ingame...instead of 18k Wraith thingies for event boots i only need 9k let's say, but...
I don't know much about economics, so please don't flame me, but a thought crossed my mind. Since the anni packs & co. already did the damage, what if they just keep unleashing the packs into the game to the point where event gear just cheapens up due to the sheer amount of it available? Why would that be bad? People are still gonna open packs (spend money), but certain items might become much cheaper, e.g. Lunar Insigna 30 mil instead of 60 etc. Would it be bad for most high levels to own event gear regardless of whether bought ingame for coin or by opening packs?
I don't think just stopping with stuff in CS would have good results. It would just make for a bigger difference between people who already have event gear vs. people who are sane enough not to spend 3 months killing same mob over and over again for hours per day to get same item. You couldn't even merchant your way to these items since nobody would be willing to sell them anyway.0 -
I just have a question.
Why are you in this thread?
This thread is, suggestions to improve the economy in this game, aka for every player. Or should I say, the average per capita, since after all, that's what determines a healthy economy or not. It's not, "suggestions to improve my pockets" thread.
Competition is the lifeforce of the economy. If no one ever wanted to compete against others then hell this game itself wouldn't exist as no one would cash shop. Your ideas consist of removing merchanting and remove farming TT, i.e make it impossible to gain coins. Your ideas are "hey I'm not willing to work for nice things, so let's make it so no one can work to get these nice things"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »Competition is the lifeforce of the economy. If no one ever wanted to compete against others then hell this game itself wouldn't exist as no one would cash shop. Your ideas consist of removing merchanting and remove farming TT, i.e make it impossible to gain coins. Your ideas are "hey I'm not willing to work for nice things, so let's make it so no one can work to get these nice things"
How do other games without catshops attract players? Surely they are not "poor" as heck liike in this one? The answer is in game design. Particularly, the costs associated and requirements/difficulty would be accomodated. (note this game is fairly easy as it is! that was only an example, doesn't mean this game fails in ALL aspects)
Furthermore, player prices will also shift. Less rich people means more catering to EVERYONE instead of A SELECT FEW. People will have to sell their stuff for cheaper because, hey, he has to cater to AVERAGE PERSON.
The more people have "average coins" instead of a spike (i.e only few have many coins from merchanting), the more balanced the economy is, the more "normal" (not absurd) prices are, and the more the game is designed for EVERYONE, not with the rich ppl in mind for some ridiculous amounts.
Simply put like this, for a real world example, China has a very high economy in total (3rd or 2nd place, been a while since I checked), and quite a few rich people as well.
Does that make its economy good? Or rather, the standard of living? It has a very poor GDP per capita. Its economy, people-wise (not government) SUCKS compared to most western standards.
Get it yet?
maybe this thread should be called "raising the standard of living in PWI" b:chuckle then ppl would get it0 -
What you are saying is everyone should have less coins so that the average player (you I'm assuming) will be able to get things easier. You want it to be harder on people that make coins by merchanting so the game will be easier for you.
I don't know how many MMOs you've played before this but in all the one's I've played the players that put in the most effort are the ones to succeed. Whether it be farming TT, merchanting, or whatever. If you don't put in the effort that these people do then there will ALWAYS be people with more coins than you who are willing to pay a higher price than you.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Not at all. In fact I'm one of the few here who thinks inflation can ONLY be a good thing (npc prices don't change, everything else doesn't matter as it adjusts itself), so more coins is what I'm suggesting.
However, this is where you didn't get my point (it's ok, I'm kinda terrible at explaining also b:sad).
I'm not complaining about the average player having average coins. It's the people who take most of the "percent" of the money in circulation that do. It's not a question of "socialism", IRL a country's standard of living is based off the average person, not the few rich. Heck, Mexico has the richest person on the world I think (surpassed Bill Gates). Doesn't mean the standard of living there is good. It means its economy sucks.
If the prices are set to cater, or at least adjusted, for the millionaires, IRL everyone else would have a bad standard of living. THAT'S the problem: it's WHERE the coin falls.
I'm not talking about pouring coin into the economy, I'm talking about merchanting, which is MOVING that coin in exchange for nothing -- there really is nothing added.
TT mats have at least something: you add the mats into the economy (economy does not equal only coins). Merchanting does nothing but imbalance the economy, which in turn screws game design & prices FOR THE AVERAGE PLAYER.
Of course, you will afford more than without merchanting, but more than half of the ppl will fall below the average. That means, while you can get like, let's say, twice as much as before, the average person can get 1/4 as much (just an example). This is a sign of a ****-up.
EDIT: I think i'll be off the economics-threads for today, think my bad explanations have to do with it, should focus on something else now. :P0 -
Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »lol you can just copy paste and reply to my comments :P
Sorry, you're not just going to push your laziness off on me and make me do your work. :PSearing - Dreamweaver wrote: »I don't know much about economics, so please don't flame me, but a thought crossed my mind. Since the anni packs & co. already did the damage, what if they just keep unleashing the packs into the game to the point where event gear just cheapens up due to the sheer amount of it available? Why would that be bad? People are still gonna open packs (spend money), but certain items might become much cheaper, e.g. Lunar Insigna 30 mil instead of 60 etc. Would it be bad for most high levels to own event gear regardless of whether bought ingame for coin or by opening packs?
Actually it is already happening. Probably not as much as people would like, but prices have been decreasing as the market has become saturated. You may still think they're quite expensive, but in contrast to how much it would cost you to farm, they're bargains.
Lunar rings were selling for 90-100m a few weeks after packs were first introduced, now they're down to 50m or so. Lunar capes were 60-75m during Coral packs, now they're selling for around 40m. I guess the drop rate of Lunar weapon was decreased, as I got mine for 55m during Corals but haven't seen more than one or two under 70m since the new packs came out. Warsong Marshal's Badge used to sell for 180-200m, now they're at 100m. Cube neck was 160m or so now they're around 90m. Even tokens, after annipacks were removed jumped close to 30k and stayed there. Each successive release has brought their post-pack prices down even further. Right now you can still find them for 13k without even trying.
I expect the value of most of these items to decrease even further during the next pack sale as well.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »No that's the thing. I know this was posted in another thread, but even the more conservative ppl now think that a +3 refine is "minimum low" for a DD 90+. That's quite a lot of hours you need to grind to reach, since after all, you've got those skills to up as well. If you go the slow route you will get ridiculed and not wanted in any parties whatsoever, since you're apparently below the norm. You're not alone in this game.
So what would you do, solo grind all this time? Isn't it a MMO, when did it turn into a MSO?
+3 is the minimum for a reason, it's able to be gained easily without cash shopping. However, to get it, knowledge that most people who have been playing the game a while is needed to do this.
Rough estimate of cost:
Tries to find lucky time of elder: about 7
Mirage Celestone used per try: 2-4
Mirage Celestone to +3 a piece of armor during lucky time:3-5
Pretty easy and cheap to do, if you know what you're doing. And with the prevalance of how much this little trick is known, it provides instant insight into a character and the player.
In short, if the player is 90+ and doesn't have +3 amor refinement, then they are the oracle/hyper/BH people who never got a good grasp of the game. Which would also point to them not knowing alot of other stuff, so it's safer to go for someone who does know, or at least has the gear to make their lack of knowledge not as dangerous.Fist are the worst at PvP AND PvE, if you disagree, as I said, take it to PM's or make your own guide. Go here if you want to debate about it. - Lyndura
Get a High lvl Fist warrior use it, Restat to axes. GG - complexx
:NOTE: These signatures are to forever immortalize, how stupid people can be.0 -
IMO, make TT gear rare...........but make something new and accesible between TT and 3*gear.0
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I'm not complaining about the average player having average coins. It's the people who take most of the "percent" of the money in circulation that do. It's not a question of "socialism", IRL a country's standard of living is based off the average person, not the few rich. Heck, Mexico has the richest person on the world I think (surpassed Bill Gates). Doesn't mean the standard of living there is good. It means its economy sucks.
If the prices are set to cater, or at least adjusted, for the millionaires, IRL everyone else would have a bad standard of living. THAT'S the problem: it's WHERE the coin falls.
If you have an item you're selling you don't give it to someone who offers the average price, you give it to the highest bidder. The prices aren't always set to the millionaires either.
For example the money I spent getting Gx came from merchanting. To get that I bought tokens and sold them for 1k higher than I bought.
When I set my selling price I didn't set it with the millionaires in mind, I set it for the people who would be buying them which for the most part are the average people. I could of put my tokens at 2k higher than I did hoping that someone with too much money to notice the difference would come by and buy all of them, but I made more by selling to the average person. When It came time to buy my gold mats then they were sold to the highest bidder, why? Because if you have an ancient devil's souls you don't sell it to the average bidder, you sell it to whoever offers the most. Merchanting is making money off of other people's laziness and hastiness. I buy tokens and sell them at 11k each easily because I'm willing to do so. Sure the people I'm buying from COULD set up a cat shop and sell them at 11k each but they're unwilling to do so, same for those who buy them.
I fail to see how moving coins around in exchange for a percentage of them is wrong, if anything it helps take some of the coins from the cash shoppers and put it back into the hands of the F2P players.
Merchanting is only even possible by the laziness of others. You need wines for your BH so you buy tokens from a cat shop. Now you COULD set up one with a buying price but you would rather just buy them.
Merchanting does nothing to imbalance the economy. We aren't secretly conspiring to raise prices because to be honest, we wouldn't make any money by doing that, at least not in the long run. Hell I made more money buying and selling tokens when they were going for 10-11k than I did when they were going for 14-15k[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
I'm going to truncate the text here a lot in the interest of a post that isn't a million miles long. b:surrender
EDIT: Hope you guys like walls of textorangeladey wrote: »This definition I knew before I asked my question.
But the key thing is 2a. The money in PW IS NOT WORTH LESS. Granted there are several in-game exceptions, but it is NOT true for everything, which is the actual case with inflation. As for 2b. that is not ignoring the decrease in value, but being descriptive of the superfluous cash.
You are correct, there is always some degree of inflation in a growing closed economy. However, PWI's is far, far above what you would normally find, and the value of each coin has decreased massively. This is very much inflation. For example, an gold charm used to cost 500k, and now costs (if I'm correctly informed) around 400% of that initial amount. Value of coins relative to NPCs doesn't change so this is obviously a bit subjective; simply put this is inflation relative to user to user prices.I am not entirely certain, but I think the situation in game more closely represents a RECESSION. I know a recession is where prices increase, but money does not. But the similiarity is in how people react. In a recession, people tend to buy less, because the money does not go as far. As far as game changes go, prices are remaining relatively the same, but the so-called 'salary' from grinding or whatever method you use to make coin is going down, so it has a similar effect. I'm not saying it is the same, but the trends are similar.
Interesting, but there has been a lot of coin added to the economy via BH and 10m notes. (I'm ignoring the coin boxes because they're useless) That is a significant amount of coin and it could very well constitute inflation level addition.Perhaps more like Marxism...
I am a proponent of not using blanket stereotypes, especially stereotypes that do not apply in all the particulars to the subject at hand.
I was being sarcastic, hence the caps.I suppose you took a look at my character level and decided I'm new? And you guessed I haven't read the forums?
How insulting. Give me some credit rather than assuming things. Of course I am presuming you are a literate, considerate human being. One who will do research, pay attention to the news, and either are studying at a high school or have graduated into the work force or continued education.
I never insinuated that you were new or ignorant, don't assume I was. My last comment was directed more generally than specifically at you.I've played this game for years. At least three or four now. That may not make me an 'elder' but I ain't a rube either.
True I did leave for a year, but that was due to real life issues, so the changes were really clear to me when I returned to the game.
This game hasn't been around this long but I'l give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were an MY player as well.And I really wish to say that "your in-game elders" are a pack of idiots. Not all of them are. But many forum posts are hardly written well. Not that I'm all that good at writing, but I am highly literate, and many posts are hardly coherent. That while I mostly understand their message, their points are vague or reactionary, and in many occasions, rude, fallacious and inflammatory.
As you're so literate, you should be able to easily separate the intelligent and well thought out posts from the rambling masses, I'd think?In the forums I do not see people doing real math, but instead these vague cause and effect chains, without sources or references.
I noted the part about identifying variables in my 'please do' list. I actually feel greater confidence in someone who says, this is what I think, here's the numbers, this is what I'm not sure about. Why? Because it show that the person looked at more than just what he want's us to see.
As much as I love applied maths this is a situation where it cannot be accurately applied. There are many, many variables in an in game economy that can't be accounted for with macroeconomics (e.g. disconnects, player population as a function of time, sheer randomness of purchase, etc, etc)That's probably part of the reason the developers don't take up anybody's ideas, because they DO have that model, and they can tell why many suggestions just aren't feasible. Especially since many suggestions will only strongly benefit the narrow category of class/play style/server style into which that character falls.
The reason the devs don't take up any suggestions isn't a matter of feasibility but rather the fact that the devs have nothing to do with this forum and as best I can tell have little to do with the GMs. (I'm assuming this because it's been at least a week since Frankie said he was contacting the devs on the matter of DQ items) It's difficult to receive feedback when you're so compartmentalised.RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »^ Is this a semi-serious post from Nak? o.o b:chuckleb:victoryBladestorm lets you spin around like a carnival ride and do damage. Not using it is almost like having a move called Confetti Rocket Power Leap and saving it for "emergencies"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nakhimov the Kingslayer of Kil'Jaeden's <Criminal Scum>
wowprogress.com/guild/us/kil-jaeden/Criminal+Scum0 -
Nak is scaring me b:sad[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »Nak is scaring me b:sad
I was fed after midnight b:shockedBladestorm lets you spin around like a carnival ride and do damage. Not using it is almost like having a move called Confetti Rocket Power Leap and saving it for "emergencies"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nakhimov the Kingslayer of Kil'Jaeden's <Criminal Scum>
wowprogress.com/guild/us/kil-jaeden/Criminal+Scum0 -
Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »If the prices are set to cater, or at least adjusted, for the millionaires, IRL everyone else would have a bad standard of living. THAT'S the problem: it's WHERE the coin falls.
See, the thing is, prices haven't increased on really anything in game. Potions, teleport fees and skill fees have remained static. Come to think of it, I can't think of a single thing that has increased in price in the past 6 months except for charms and items you chose to purchase directly or indirectly from the cash shop. Everything else has become far cheaper.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »See, the thing is, prices haven't increased on really anything in game. Potions, teleport fees and skill fees have remained static. Come to think of it, I can't think of a single thing that has increased in price in the past 6 months except for charms and items you chose to purchase directly or indirectly from the cash shop. Everything else has become far cheaper.
Event pots and mp charms are required in order to heal/dps effectively for casters. NPC pots are generally not sufficient for mana recovery over a long fight.
Refines are also more expensive and somewhat necessary in order to be effective.Bladestorm lets you spin around like a carnival ride and do damage. Not using it is almost like having a move called Confetti Rocket Power Leap and saving it for "emergencies"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nakhimov the Kingslayer of Kil'Jaeden's <Criminal Scum>
wowprogress.com/guild/us/kil-jaeden/Criminal+Scum0 -
in my opinion the server gold prices have just inflated, true it was started due to chests of coins/ani packs but when i started gold was at about 80k each and it was steadily going up to ~150k even before chests of coins came out.
so i think that the price increase was inevitable given the more high lvl players and more in game coin in the economy (i admit this was caused by anipacks but it would have hit this level eventually anyway)0 -
Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »Event pots and mp charms are required in order to heal/dps effectively for casters. NPC pots are generally not sufficient for mana recovery over a long fight.
Refines are also more expensive and somewhat necessary in order to be effective.
As I said, items obtainable from the cash shop are the only thing that has increased. The cost of orbs has increased due to the gold price, but it's easy to refine. Unless you have extremely bad luck, you could easily refine all your gear to +3 with 300-400 mirages without even touching a cash-shop item.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »Ok well thinking a bit and based on my previous MMO where the economy wasn't even close to screwed as in this, I came up with the following points:
1) Remove ANY way to convert gold into coins DIRECTLY. Gold > Coin conversion should only be between players. Maybe remove the gold fee when you sell gold since it seems a bit harsh, but keep the coin one.
This includes removing chest of coins and 10 million bank note
Why is it bad, hmm? Because people can inject more coins into the economy and mess up the market simply by charging more money on the game. This is ****, someone could charge 200k dollars (exaggerated but possible and I hope you get the point) and then open tons of chest of coins and packs and inflate the market so much others will have no chance of buying anything again.
I exaggerated of course, but it only proves why it's an idiotic idea to keep those.
Removing 10M bank note from PW Boutique Agent gift exchange doesnt' matter either. To get a 10M bank note from the gift exchange requires a Perfect Token of Best Luck. Again these can only be sourced from the Boutique from Packs and there's only a 0.72% chance of getting these so at 1 gold a pop, you'd have to buy 139 packs ON AVERAGE... 139 gold at 360k/gold = 50M coin... but wait! Perferct Tokens of Best Luck only cost ~5M?! Yeah, because if you have two you can trade them for a 10M big note, but PWI made $139.00 USD off some Zen purchaser... the affect on the in-game economy is trivial compared to their real-life profit margin.Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »2) Remove any way to get stuff you farm or grind for, from the boutique. This includes mostly packs. It's extremely stupid for them to sell stuff you actually farm and what this game was supposed to be played for, from cash shop.
You can still sell your gold to other players and buy the drops after, but at least this way the instances will still be worthwhile to farm for those that need drops or money, instead of their prices deflating so much, while the overall market actually inflates because of (1)Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »3) Remove Catshops. Seriously I am not kidding. For one they actually inflate the market more than without. Because people would be forced to sell on AH much more items (except on world chat) and AH has a fee for this reason, to help deflate the economy. And I'm not talking about the fee when you put an item for sale only, but the one where you don't get the whole money you sold the item for back, you get a bit less.
Also without Catshops everyone would have the same chance at merchanting (some ppl can't let computer on for catshops atm), and because of this, merchanting will drop A LOT except a few people who are smart enough (if everyone merchants, there would be no more profit at all from it)
This also leads to a better market because those merchants won't control it anymore and be the only ones able to afford some things. It will still be possible to merchant a bit by checking AH regularly, but not to such high effects as now.
Of course along with this suggestion they will have to improve AH searching. It's actually great except it works in chinese, fix it please and trust me it will be sooo much easier to buy and sell the items you need. Even easier than with catshops atm, when you have to check all Arch catshops for items you're interested in.
Also add more categories and more items able to be sold on AH, practically make everything that can be traded able to be sold there.
I can setup a catshop to sell Great Beasts Armor for 5M a pop, but I seriously doubt any informed buyer would purchase them when they can go to the Auction and get them for 400-600K; no transaction and no inflation (me getting rich at your expense). Catshops don't have any fees, but you reach much fewer potential buyers because the buyer has to inspect your catshop and decide you have the best deal (or be fool-hardy and buy from the first cat-shop you see that has what you want). The auction charges a listing fee and a 5% sales fee, BUT you can potentially reach EVERY player on the server that is looking for the type of item you are selling. Some think that's well worth the fee, others would rather take their chances at cat-shopping for free.
If you're complaining about the catshops that sell tokens, packs, and event prizes, keep in mind that those people PAID HUNDREDS AND POSSIBLY THOUSANDS IN GOLD to bring you those offers. The chance of a Lunar Glade Insignia - Ornament, for example, is 0.02%... I'd have to buy 5,000 packs = 5,000 gold on average to get that... but if someone is selling it for 50M coin, that's only $139 gold to me... one golf outing with greens fees and lunch compared to a vacation to Hawaii for 5 grand... I'll take it the $139 deal!Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »4) Contrary to what some think, increasing drops in instances would actually not affect the economy unless it's an absurd number, because if you're a farmer you ALSO get more stuff dropped per run. They are worth less, yes, but you get more to sell.
It will just be more difficult to find buyers, and maybe taking more time, but you'll still manage to get relatively same income.
With the exception of suggestion #1, you did not really say "Here's the problem"... you jumped straight to a solution which makes it dificult to offer more workable alternatives since I don't get what the problem is. Even with #1, your idea of people injecting coins into the economy with chest of coins and 10M big note from Perfect Token of Best Luck is mistaken because a Perfect Hammer costs more than 1M coins so chest of coins is worthless and a Perefect Token of Best Luck costs 5M coins so nobody is "injecting coin" by buying 2 of those to get a 10M Big Note. Sure there are some people that are going to get lucky and get a pair of Best tokens with less than 10,000 tries, but c'mon... this is a major economic problem?! Explain why! If I want 10M coin I can get it direct at Auction for 27 gold or I can sell TT mats and grind which is way better than buy 10,000 Lucky Coral packs b:chuckle0 -
orangeladey wrote: »I am not entirely certain, but I think the situation in game more closely represents a RECESSION. I know a recession is where prices increase, but money does not. But the similiarity is in how people react. In a recession, people tend to buy less, because the money does not go as far. As far as game changes go, prices are remaining relatively the same, but the so-called 'salary' from grinding or whatever method you use to make coin is going down, so it has a similar effect. I'm not saying it is the same, but the trends are similar.
I have a problem with this quote. You seem to infer that the opposite of inflation is a recession. But these are not conflicting & mutually exclusive terms. A recession (or depression) is the opposite of an Economic boom. Meanwhile Inflation is the opposite of Deflation.
In fact what is going on in game is very similar to conditions of the great boom right before & heading into the great depression. Booms & Recessions are caused not by how much money is within the economic system, but rather how quickly that money is being spent & spent again & basically circulating. There can be an economy flooded with currency & everyone too scared to spend it, so very few transactions per day occur, this is a recession/depression.
Right now the rich/poor divide is becoming so extreme, that the mass majority (the poor) arent willing to spend much money anymore, the "rainy day" phenomenon. They are unable to make much money and only spending on basic necessities. The DQ-20% might be the straw that breaks the camels back (not i said might be, as economic predictions are all but impossible). Causing many to not even be able to afford their necessities. Cash flow slows to a near halt, and everything crashes. Actually i'm not entirely sure this hasnt happened already. All the methods of players below 100 to make money have pretty much crashed already. TT mats are worth nothing, same with mat mining, or FB mold farming.
In short, the spiralling inflation thats been reported for months is leading to a crash occurring now. As it has in similar situations in real world economies.0 -
The reason PW's economy is so horrible is because we have the auction house where we can sell Cubicoins/gold for in game gold. All PW versions are like this, PWI hasnt gotten as bad as some of the older versions of pw, so i consider playing here not that bad. When you have to buy cubigold for 1.5mil-2mil+ in game gold, now thats bad. as the PWI version gets older the prices will only raise. Sorry to say but its true for almost every PW version in the world, as long as they let players sell cubigold/coins for in game gold it will always be this way. Oh the lucky boxes dont help either, it raises the price for ingame gold for cubigold/coins.Character : Kyandeisu
Level/Class : 96/WF(Venomancer)
Character : Jovent
Level/Class : 100/EA(Archer)
Guild : ☆WarLord☆
Version : PWMY
Character : ZeroJigoku
Level/Class : 56/Assassin
Character : Kyandeisu
Level/Class : 56/EP(Cleric)
Guild : ☆WarLord☆
Server : Lost City
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary wrote: »Removing 10M bank note from PW Boutique Agent gift exchange doesnt' matter either. To get a 10M bank note from the gift exchange requires a Perfect Token of Best Luck. Again these can only be sourced from the Boutique from Packs and there's only a 0.72% chance of getting these so at 1 gold a pop, you'd have to buy 139 packs ON AVERAGE... 139 gold at 360k/gold = 50M coin... but wait! Perferct Tokens of Best Luck only cost ~5M?! Yeah, because if you have two you can trade them for a 10M big note, but PWI made $139.00 USD off some Zen purchaser... the affect on the in-game economy is trivial compared to their real-life profit margin.
1st of all, you took the minimum pack chance, coral packs, to come up with that 0.72% chance. Both Tiger Packs & Anni packs had a 1.72% chance for best luck tokens. Secondly, The effect is not trivial. With people openning 100+ packs an hour (& yes the makor pack players do this) thats roughly 3.4 mil per hour per pack popping player being added into the economy, far more then DQ grinders who do 300k an hour on their best day (AoE BM grinding). It doesnt matter how much profit PWE makes from it, what matters is the speed in which it introduces new coin into the economy.0
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